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12:01 AM
Here is an example @ᴇʏᴇs Why did you capitalize the "h" in "h-bar" @0celo7 :-)
 
But I thought in math, something is either correct or not
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio I should have said "h Bar".
I was actually not being pedantic :)
@ᴇʏᴇs Spoken like a math major.
 
I was being pedantic by asking why.
 
ah
 
So which one is correct? "H-bar" or "h-bar"
 
12:05 AM
h Bar
 
No hyphen, cap b, lowercase h.
 
Oh
So "H-bar" can mean something totally different than "h bar"
 
@ᴇʏᴇs A good example of pedantry is when a physics text will say "sufficiently smooth" and the math text will say which $C^n$.
 
Or the math text will worry about integrals converging.
In physics all integral converge. This is a theorem. (Not really.)
 
12:07 AM
Ohhh
 
@ᴇʏᴇs it could.
Overly detailed
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Another really important one is that in physics we rarely bother with $\cong$ for isomorphisms.
Mathematicians love seeing $SU(2)=SO(3)$.
 
One thing
I just solved that one with convergence $$\int_0^1 \frac{1}{\log(x)}+ \frac{1}{\log^2(x)}+\cdots + \frac{1}{\log^n(x)}- f_n(x) \ dx$$
 
@Stan: Now you have found out why I prefer to do differential geometry with differential forms, rather than the classical physicists' notation.
 
but I need to put it into a more interesting form.
I'm out.
 
12:11 AM
What does "pedantry" mean to you Proffessor @ted
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Also, most physics texts do not use \mathrm for $\mathrm{e}$ and $\mathrm{i}$.
Or for groups.
Also they rarely distinguish between groups and their algebras notationally and conceptually.
 
paying attention to detail, @infinitesimal ... perhaps a bit too much sometimes.
 
$\mathrm{e} \mathrm{i}$
 
mr eyeglasses, eieio?
 
I was testing out \mathrm because I never used it before
 
12:13 AM
I don't use it much ...
 
Welcome back TS
 
$e i \mathrm{ei}$
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Declare operators \ee and \ii in your preambles.
 
$\mathfrak{EI}\Bbb{EI}\mathrm{EI}\mathbf{EI}\mathcal{EI}\mathscr{EI}$
 
Then you can look like a real pro.
@Committingtoachallenge Lower case frak and rm too!
 
12:23 AM
@TedShifrin What determines whether we can use the Riemann tensor in a coodinate invariant vs non coordinate invariant way?
 
hi chat
 
@Semiclassical hey
 
Hi Partially classical
 
I will change my name to Classical soon
 
12:30 AM
committing to the classics?
i should probably go back to trying to disentangle/approximate this integral, but i'm still in food coma mode
 
damn I am really good with algebra but not analysis :S
 
real analysis or complex analysis?
 
I am bad at all for now
 
I'm good at kindergarten arithmetic
 
12:33 AM
Me 1+1!
 
over the summer I should read baby rudin
 
@Committingtoachallenge $3-1$
 
Me ${10}_2$!
 
Me $11_1$
Wow it never occurred to me that tallies were just base 1(not because it isn't obvious, but because I never thought about it)
 
12:38 AM
I thought it was base $5$
 
I suppose that also
But the line through on five I think more of as a comma in a large number, 1,000,000
Just to make it easier to read
 
Hi @JasperLoy
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Hello.
 
@JasperLoy How are you feeling
@JasperLoy I think I failed 2 exams so far
 
@ᴇʏᴇs Feeling scared that I won't get well.
 
12:44 AM
@JasperLoy hi
 
@Committingtoachallenge Hello.
 
What have you done today steel blue
 
@Committingtoachallenge Nothing much, just thinking.
 
Did you just wake up?
 
Yes, I will think for a couple of hours now and go to bed again.
 
12:46 AM
Too much sleep always made me more depressed
Not doing things that are fun makes me more depressed, in fact I have read papers on the topic of boredom = depression
@JasperLoy I have more chat posts than you Jasper :)
 
@Committingtoachallenge Yeah, I don't talk much.
 
@JasperLoy You are only a new member after all ;)
 
@Committingtoachallenge I am feeling scared I won't get well.
 
@JasperLoy Are you still taking the medication?
 
@Committingtoachallenge Yes.
 
12:51 AM
Have they had diminishing effect? E.g. placebo effect or biological deregulation
 
Hmm, no idea.
 
@ᴇʏᴇs This occurred to me randomly: Physicists call the energy-momentum tensor in string theory and conformal field theory holomorphic. A pedantic mathematician would insist that it is actually meromorphic.
 
bbl
 
@Parth 95 runs
 
1:13 AM
I've seen weird downvoting, but what's up with my answer and the deleted answer on this question? We both got five downvotes for answers that, while not perfect, were not wrong. math.stackexchange.com/questions/1208336/…
 
@ThomasAndrews Didn't vote, but I agree your answer is more complex than is needed, and many of the downvotes probably come from the 'don't answer a PSQ' mentality
 
But the other answer is the simpler approach (which is why I gave the complicated - some people don't know why $x^ax^b=x^{a+b}$ when $a,b$ rational. And that other answer got $5$ downvotes. @Committingtoachallenge
And OP selected my answer. :) Maybe it somehow got promoted to the front of the stackexchange site, so we got lots of outsiders/irregulars visiting.
 
Did you get a badge for strongly downvoted accepted answer?
Also, your answer Thomas is horrible and extremely complicated for a simple thing. If 2 donwvotes were allowed, I would definitely downvote your answer twice. – Anonaki
@ThomasA if you edit it(so people can change their votes) I am sure some people will change them, given that yours was the one accepted
 
Sometimes they downvote overly complicated answers that don't help asker.
 
The text is too light on ThomasAndrews' answer, is there any way I can make the text font a darker color to make it easier to read?
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio When you said what the doctor said was bullshit, that really discouraged me.
 
Yeah, I saw that comment. I can't help it that he doesn't understand. :) I'm happy to have a selected answer with downvotes. And, since OP selected it, it's hard to say it didn't help OP. Anyway, I've seen answerslike this downvoted, but not seven times. And I don't know why the question is upvoted, either - it's trivial algebra. I don't care about the points, I just feel like there is something odd happening. Maybe an external link to the question.
 
It was meant to do the opposite @jasp
 
1:28 AM
$$\large\color{red}{\text{What are you talking about guys}}\color{blue}{\text{?}}$$
 
It shows a lack of understanding on his part and has nothing to do with your condition @jasper
 
@infinitesimalsimplicio OK.
 
When did you say this thing @Inf
 
I'm sorry @JasperLoy
That's just my 2 cents :(
 
Is there an irrational between every rational and a rational between every irrational?
Or do we have many irrationals touching like my intuition says
 
1:33 AM
Nope, there are always infinitely many rationals between any two irrationals, and visa versa.
 
What does your intuition say about the density of the rationals?
 
Look for the statement "The rationals are dense in the reals."
 
I wondered why he only considered two cases here
But that makes sense
 
1:36 AM
Basically, the decimal expansion of a real number shows that you can stop at $n$ digits and get a "rational" number arbitrarily close to any real. If $a,b$ irrational, find a rational number with $\epsilon$ of $(a+b)/2$, where $\epsilon<|b-a|/2$. @Committingtoachallenge
 
Ahhh yes, I vaguely remember this from real-analysis
Now you are +7/-7 @ThomasA
 
Yeah, I saw. @Committingtoachallenge
 
:-O
WoW! I've never seen that!!
 
i'm trying to visualize some two dimensional concepts in three dimensional space
green edges are star tetrahedron, red edges are dodecahedron (green dots are vertices of dodecahedron)
does this make sense to anyone?
 
not to me, but i'm half-dead today
 
1:44 AM
@JasperLoy I would have preferred him to just say "Don't be discouraged, we can help you" and leave out the other BS that he has no place in mentioning on your first visit to him. It makes me wonder if they are actually taught to say that?
 
to bad, i'm this close to my solution
four days now, can't get it just right :)
although the properties designated with arrows are interesting by itself
It's related to this question
6
Q: Mathematical properties of two dimensional projection of three dimensional rotated object

RopstahPlease be gentle as I do not have any degree in maths. By using a compass/straighedge method to construct Metatron's cube, a regular dodecahedron can be inferred from intersecting points. I'm looking for the ratio between the lengths of the edges (blue) of the dodecahedron and the radius of the ...

I also perform a lot of initial rotations on both the objects as well as my scene
This is what it initially looks like
 
Anybody played with Pixar's RenderMan? Downloaded it today, but haven't started looking at it.
 
2:00 AM
@infinitesimalsimplicio If he was overly positive, they are meant to do that since it has been shown to greatly improve their rate of success on depression/anxiety, since it increases your suggestiveness
@ThomasAndrews First I have heard of it
Was that why he only considered the case when $x_0\in \Bbb Q, x_1\in \Bbb I$ and $x_0 \in \Bbb I, x_1\in \Bbb Q$?
Because there are infinitely many of the other set between each element
 
What happens to the difference if both points are rational?
 
$|x_0-x_1|\lt \delta$ and $|x_0-x_1|\geq \epsilon$
 
today in my set theory class i had the most mind blowing theorem
That zorn lemma implies that every vector space V has a basis
very nice !
 
the search for an "impossible $\epsilon$ to satisfy, is going to depend on finding points near each other on the real line, but whose images are far apart.
Unfortunately, it only tells you one exists, it doesn't help with really finding one.
 
What is Zorn's lemma
 
2:12 AM
It's what is used to make Zorn's lemmanade
 
Its very googleable
 
If you have a partially ordered set then it will always admit a maximal
 
@DavidWheeler Sounds tasty
 
"Suppose a partially ordered set P has the property that every chain (i.e. totally ordered subset) has an upper bound in P. Then the set P contains at least one maximal element."
 
Every partially ordered set in which every chain is bounded above, has at least one maximal element.
 
2:14 AM
yeh
 
So should I be trying to prove that it is continuous for a contradiction @DavidW? That question on Dedekind not at $x=0$
 
If I look at an object and I rotate my camera as follows:
$x=325 * PI / 180$
$y=315 * PI / 180$

then how can I achieve the same end result by using rotations on the object instead of the camera?
 
but yeah we were talking that axiom of choice iff zorn lemma holds iff every vector V have a basis
which is mind blowing
 
@ᴇʏᴇs @Committingtoachallenge I am going to take a nap, good night.
 
also iff every ring has a maximal ideal iff the product of two compact spaces is compact
 
2:15 AM
this doesn't work...
$x=35 * Math.PI / 180$
$y=45 * Math.PI / 180$
 
wow @DavidWheeler
 
iff for every set there is a binary operation making it a group
 
oh shoot that does work never mind
 
The idea is this @Committingtoachallenge: you know that for a given $x$, the rationals near $x$ map near $x$, and the irrationals map near $-x$. So choose $\epsilon = |x|$.
 
Bib
In the second paragraph of this note, Sarnak mentions that the projection of $SL_n(Z)$ to $SL_n(Z/qZ)$ is surjective. Isn't this elementary? Doesn't it just follow from $Z \to Z/nZ$ being surjective?
 
2:31 AM
Doesn't the next sentence say "Far less elementary is...." @Bib Curious, what are thin groups?
 
Bib
By elementary I mean trivial, sorry.
Thin groups are basically discrete subgroups which are not lattices.
Anyway, I feel like I'm missing something. Why is Chinese Remainder Theorem needed?
 
Hmm, I am not really sure (never really worked with these things) honestly, I am guessing it is not necessarily obvious it that a reduction would preserve the determinants properties.
@bib
 
Bib
Oh I see. I actually just looked up the definition of $SL_n$ and came to the same conclusion. Thanks for confirming!
 
I am not sure if I am confirming, like I said I have never really messed with these things, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the reason. Maybe I will try to prove it in a bit, or you can keep me informed if you confirm.
 
@Committingtoachallenge but he wasn't being overly positive. What he said was "don't kill yourselve, we can help you" and I strongly object to him saying "don't kill yourself" on the very first visit. Since he is, after all only a stranger at this point; and has absolutely no idea of how bad the situation may be. In other words, he has already set back any therapist by announcing his "opinion."
59 mins ago, by infinitesimal simplicio
@JasperLoy I would have preferred him to just say "Don't be discouraged, we can help you" and leave out the other BS that he has no place in mentioning on your first visit to him. It makes me wonder if they are actually taught to say that?
 
2:45 AM
the determinant function is just a multinomial expression of matrix entries, and reduction modulo $q$ is a ring-homomorphism, so
 
I have shown that $$\lim_{x \rightarrow 0} \frac{\sin 2x-2x}{x^3}=-\frac{4}{3}$$

How could we check whether the limit $$\lim_{(x, y) \rightarrow (0, 0)} \frac{\sin 2x-2x+y}{x^3+y}$$ exits or not?? @DavidWheeler @ThomasAndrews @robjohn
 
can you see it does not?
 
@Mary, you know if the limit is not equal approaching from two directions it doesn't exist right?
 
If you approach the limit along the $x$-axis, you get -4/3. What do you get if you approach along the $y$-axis?
 
Interesting English-language fun. An element of a "set of generators," in general, is not a generator. :)
 
2:55 AM
Huh?
Are you talking about the empty set?
:-)
 
No. For example, if $G$ is any non-cyclic group, and $S$ is a set of generators, no $g\in S$ is a generator. @infinitesimalsimplicio The "of generators" does not match the normal pattern - it is actually a property of the set as a whole, not of the elements.
 
How often do you see "set of generators" vs "a generating set"
 
Well, I just saw it in an answer, which was why I thought of it. "Generating set" is definitely better.
 
I still don't get it :(
 
@DavidWheeler @Bib Ah, yah. I guess it is that its not necessarily non-trivial to say that every matrix with det 1 in the reduction comes from a matrix with determinant 1 without the chinese remainder theorem.
(which now that I think about it is the obvious application of the chinese remainder theorem in the problem)
 
3:07 AM
hello all
 
hows life in the chat?
 
Chatty
:-)
How are you?
 
I've been thinking about the growth of the site recently, and about the problem of duplication. On a whim, I looked at the number of posts containing the "euclidean algorithm", and there are over 1500
 
Wow, I am guessing a few duplicates
 
3:12 AM
how many of these posts are abstract duplicates of each other? And is that a problem? I've been thinking of these questions
one might argue that having a central euclidean algorithm post would be enough. But that's essentially what a textbook provides, and that's usually what drives people here
 
Finally got my rotation :)
 
@Committingtoachallenge Yes...
 
Maybe since they are just going to ask another euclidean algorithm question anyway, we can just nuke all the current ones, duplication solved. :)
 
@DavidWheeler Does this mean we have to find the limit for $x=0$ and then for $y=0$ ??
I have also an other question...

We have to show that $$\lim_{(x, y) \rightarrow (0, 0)} \frac{\sin xy}{xy}=1$$

Could we show it as followed??

$$\lim_{(x,y) \rightarrow (0,0)} \frac{\sin xy}{xy}$$
$$ x \rightarrow 0, y \rightarrow 0$$
$$\xi=xy \rightarrow 0$$
$$\frac{\sin xy}{xy}=\frac{\sin \xi }{\xi}\overset{ \xi \rightarrow 0 }{\rightarrow } 1$$

Is this correct?? Could I improve something?? @robjohn @ThomasAndrews @DanielFischer
 
@DiscipleofBarney really though, that's not a bad idea
it would never get done,
but really
 
3:19 AM
@mixedmath Maybe, I am guessing there are less than 100 "gems", and I am sure those would be easy enough to find based on votes and the people who frequent that tag.
I wouldn't be against it (I can think of at least one person who would complain and threaten to leave math.se though)
 
hi @mixedmath
 
@MikeMiller hiya
 
how are ya
 
I am sure similar things can be done with many tags, or key words, not just euclidean algorithm. For example there are over 500 questions with product rule or chain rule in just the title, and I am sure there are many other questions that are asking about one of those rules without putting them in the title. @mixedmath
 
But over 1,500 posts is a monumental task.
Who got time fo dat :-)
 
3:34 AM
@infinitesimalsimplicio This might be one of those things where concerted effort in the short term will save a lot of heartache in the long run. Maybe.
I've previously played with the thought of deliberately "curating" some of my favorite tags so that the quality and searchability remains high
a key aspect that helps searching is having question titles be meaningful, for instance. A quick glance at the front page shows that this is actually something to ask for
I still learn a lot from reading good posts, too. But it's also a huge time sink, so I only do it occasionally
 
There is an insane amount of bad title that don't mean anything...
 
Indeed titles are the most obvious thing to work on first :-)
 
Which of the white pentagons seems more regular?
 
or say anything about the problem, even if they could easily do so. I despise 99% of titles that go like: "A question about ____"
 
I'm guilty of that
 
3:38 AM
Anyone?
Oh, i'm sorry, they are both regular, but which one fits the green vertices best?
 
they seem pretty much the same to me. Am I wrong?
oh
 
Yeah sorry, see comment
 
I think we are all a little guilty of that. I think it comes form the title being the first thing written a lot of the time, so we haven't consciously made the question as specific as we could (and we should) at that point.
 
It's very interesting, the right one seems to fit better, but after a 10 degree rotation of the dodecahedron, the vertices seem to line up exactly with half of the star tetrahedron
But it's in 3d, so i dont get it :)
Am I overlooking my problem?
6
Q: Mathematical properties of two dimensional projection of three dimensional rotated object

RopstahPlease be gentle as I do not have any degree in maths. By using a compass/straighedge method to construct Metatron's cube, a regular dodecahedron can be inferred from intersecting points. I'm looking for the ratio between the lengths of the edges (blue) of the dodecahedron and the radius of the ...

 
I agree it is apart of the natural construction of a question to not be very specific when you write the title first in the process @DiscipleofBarney
Revision(s) are a must :-)
 
3:51 AM
anyone familiar with linear algebra could kindly have a look?
 
4:13 AM
There some part of proof for linear algebra that I don't understand
A symmetric mtrix A is positive definite iff x^TAx > 0 for every column x != 0 in R^n.
they show the converse as follows
if x^TAx > 0 whenever x != 0 , let x = Pej != 0 where e_j is the j column of I_n. Then y = e_j
 
4:41 AM
nvm I am stupid sometimes
 
5:13 AM
@Committingtoachallenge Who's to complain? The Aussies were clearly the better team.
 
 
1 hour later…
6:13 AM
hi guys
 
well can somebody answer this question
if a set A contains 15 elements and set B contains 25 elements then how many elements does the symmetric difference of A and B contain
 
It depends on how many elements they share
 
thats what we dont know
 
then there's insufficient information.
 
6:24 AM
the answer is 16
i dont know how they got it
 
maybe you didn't copy the full content of the question.
 
i did
this is the full question
 
then i don't agree with the answer.
 
Did you copy down what $A$ and $B$ are, and where did you get the question?
 
a professor gave it to me
 
6:28 AM
Well it looks like a mistake / crucial information is missing
 
the question again is:
if a and b are two sets such that the elements in a are 15 and the elements in b are 25 the number of elements in the range of a and b is:
 
the range? is this a different question
 
no the same
 
Then why did you type symmetric difference in the previous statement
 
oh wait , the number of elements in the range of symmetric difference of a and b...
this is the correct question
@DiscipleofBarney can you get the question now
 
6:36 AM
It is still worded very strangely but I think I might know what it is trying to get at @SayanChattopadhyay
(basically it still doesn't make much sense)
 
and what are they trying to get at
 
I think it is trying to get you to see how many different ways are their for a "generic" symmetric difference to occur between a set $A$ with 15 elements and a set $B$ with 25 elements. $A$ and $B$ can agree on 0 elements, or they can agree on 1 element, or 2,...., or 15 elements. Which is 16 altogether. This interpretations is still a stretch of the imagination so I would get clarification from your prof. @SayanChattopadhyay
 
okay...but why not 17..@DiscipleofBarney
 
I just explained, there are only 16 ways for the symmetric differnce to come out since the set $A$ has 15 elements, so $A$ can agree on 0,1,2,...,15 elements of $B$ which has symmetric differences of distinct cardinality. But like I said I think you really should get this cleared up with your prof because the quesiton still doesn't make sense
@SayanChattopadhyay
 
but symmetric difference is the number of elements which are in A and B but not in the intersection of A and B
 
6:51 AM
I could really use some help at linear algebra/geometry
 
Which is uniquely defined by how many elements they have in common...(the symmetric difference as usually defined is the set of elements in A or B but not both) What is the definition of symmetric difference in your class?
@SayanChattopadhyay
 
Elements in set A and set B but not in both
@DiscipleofBarney
 
you asked the definition right
 
Yah, I was just that you were pinging me for a different reason since it had been a couple of minutes since the def
 
6:58 AM
i forgot the edit it so...i had to ping you
 
Seek help: http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/1208424/l-cdot-m-pi-rsl-otimes-m-then-f-i-cdot-f-j-cdot-f-k-cdot-f-l
anyone familiar with multi-linear functions, exterior product, could spare a look?
 
 
2 hours later…
8:41 AM
Morning @Huy.
 
Huy
Morning, @MikeMiller. You're up late.
 
Indeed. I'm going to sleep soon.
 
Huy
I see. I'm going to vacuum soon.
 
Seems like a good idea. I need to do that too.
 
can I ask a recommendation on which calculator to buy in this site?
 
Huy
8:45 AM
What do you need a calculator for?
 
I'm taking calculus2 and I need something to calculate Simpson's rule during the tests
after this I will be taking linear algebra, discrete math and statistics
 
Huy
Simpson's rule is part of a calc test?
 
that's what the TA said..
 
Huy
Sorry, I don't really have any experience with calc exams which allow bringing any sort of calculator.
 
should I ask on the main site?
(CAN I ask on the main site?)
(I'd also ask specifically for a Casio calculator as no other brands are available here.. )
 
Huy
8:53 AM
@maja: Trying can't hurt, but I'd search for similar questions before. If it's common in the US to allow calculators on calc exams, I'm sure someone else has asked this before.
 
unluckily I'm in Taiwan, I've seen US posts about calculators but I can't find those brands here..
 
@maja You could ask on Mathematics Educators.SE
 
Maja:
Maja: Dont waoory calculus 2 is very easy
 
It will be one of the easiest math subject u will be taking
 
8:57 AM
@infinitesimal this seems a good idea
@ys wong still I can't pass that formula by hand when the interval gets to n>10 :P
but thanks for the support :)
 
@ys wong the website seems well structured, but I do have understood our topics until now (still at the integrals part of the course). anyways, I put it in my studying resources, thanks
 
9:47 AM
Does MSE count sunday as day one of the week?
 
Why? what difference would it make?
 
@DiscipleofBarney Well my votes for the week are at 240, so either I happened to exceed the 40 a day(via deletions) by exactly 40, or the week starts on sunday
(and I have forgotten to vote equally to my exceeding the cap)
 
@Committingtoachallenge the chat stats begin on Sunday
 
Yeah and the SE vote counts as well I think, but I can wait until sun to find out
 
yep, 2 more days :-)
 
9:54 AM
@infinitesimalsimplicio Are you at math uni? Or doing some math texts? I don't remember if you are asking this(admittedly changing names constantly will desync my memories from you)
 
Ah, makes sense. Notice you have a lot of down votes? Do you spend those on recent questions or old questions (to get Community to delete them), or some combo? @Committingtoachallenge
 
@Committingtoachallenge Did you think about groups of order $p^2$ anymore after our discussion on the linear algebra room? You should finish it if you have time.
 
@BalarkaSen Definitely, I just covered the Lagrange theorem
@BalarkaSen And was relearning cosets and normal subgroups
@DiscipleofBarney A combination
 
That's good. Quotient groups are good stuff.
 
@DiscipleofBarney But I won't talk about it much since the politics on here get a little overwhelming
I am learning the category theory that goes with it a little
 
9:56 AM
True, thats fine, just wonder because I have just recently been getting more involved with math.se
 
You know about lattices, @Committingtoachallenge? You know, lattices as in drawing the subgroups.
 
@BalarkaSen Hmmm Latices from what I know are just a mesh of dots? Such as the gaussian integers?
 
not quite. it's a way to draw the subgroup structure of a group. not particularly very important, but you can get a very good geometric picture of quotient groups from it.
 
Lattices are an algebraic structure, for example the lattice on a powerset with union and intersection as operations.
 

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