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4:00 PM
@skullpatrol meh
 
do what you enjoy, outside of math
 
@skullpatrol outside of math, there is nothing that i enjoy other than reading.
 
do that
 
Huy
I'm glad I have a lot of things outside of math that I enjoy.
 
4:02 PM
@Huy meh
 
@BalarkaSen what do you like to read?
 
@skullpatrol pretty much anything other than school textbooks.
 
do you like fiction or nonfiction?
 
fiction, mostly.
don't have a knack towards si-fi, @skull and used to think i hated detective stories before stumbling upon Conan Doyle.
@Khallil be darned your anime
 
great for the imagination :D
 
4:08 PM
@Khallil although i am planning to watch Inazuma eleven for some days.
it was a cool one.
 
@BalarkaSen try writing some...
 
@Chris'ssis Apply Stolz Cesaro Lemma, then factor out $(n+1)$ in the denominator and we have a Riemann sum, right? Next exercise for me $$\lim_{n\to\infty} n^k \Big( 1 - \prod_{j=n}^{\infty} \frac{ j^{k+1} - \alpha}{ j^{k+1} + \alpha} \Big)$$ :P
 
@skullpatrol well, meh
don't tempt me.
 
@BalarkaSen too challenging?
 
@skullpatrol well, somewhat i guess, but i never tried.
 
4:10 PM
you will never know if you don't try
 
doing too many things at once messes ones brain up.
@skullpatrol true, true, but...
 
@BalarkaSen it will make you more "well rounded"
all I'm asking is for you to think about it @BalarkaSen :-)
 
@rehband Back. Do you have a solution there?
 
@skullpatrol ¯\O_o/¯
 
I might give Inazuma Eleven a try, @BalarkaSenpai.
 
4:16 PM
@Khallil why the pai at the end?
 
@Chris'ssis Yep :)
 
@rehband Which problem?
 
Wikipedia has the answer, @BalarkaSenpai.
 
@Chris'ssis 1.17
 
@Khallil bleh
 
4:17 PM
@rehband let me check it
 
@Balarka-kun, stop 'bleh'ing me!
 
@Khallil I am not getting the ping though
 
@Chris'ssis Thx
 
I know you're here! That's all that matter, @Balarka.
 
@rehband Yeah, the author has a very clever approach. You can also use Taylor series.
 
4:18 PM
@skull Have you ever read Poe?
 
@BalarkaSen yes
 
@Chris'ssis How to use Taylor series?
 
wonderful writer, wasn't he?
 
excellent
 
By taking log?
 
4:20 PM
@rehband You have $1-e^{\sum}$, and then you may consider the Taylor series of $e^x$ around $x=0$.
 
*matters
 
@Chris'ssis Hmm okay. Thanks
 
@Khallil you and your perfect English :-)
 
@rehband Welcome. It looks like all flows naturally.
 
@Chris'ssis Awesome, I'll see what I can learn
 
4:22 PM
^_^ @skullpatrol!
 
@Studentmath: As I said a few days ago, glad to see you're still alive and well!
 
@Khallil I like it!
 
@rehband More or less, you get approximately the same sums as the author. The idea behind is the same, the approach is different.
 
@Chris'ssis Okay
 
Quite pessimisic but thanks!
But yes, thinks are crazy here..
 
4:24 PM
@rehband Anyway, it's a nice question to take.
 
@Studentmath I understand.
 
@Chris'ssis =)
 
Nothing other than that could have made you write k instead of g, @Studentmath
 
@rehband you can also note something else $$1-e^{\sum}\sim -\sum$$, all being based on that elementary limit, $\displaystyle \lim_{x\to0} \frac{e^x-1}{x}=1$
 
They aren't even close on the keyboard.
 
4:25 PM
@Chris'ssis What's that?
 
Fruedian mistake maybe
 
I won't even ask why/how it's Freudian.
 
What people are thinking in here..
 
@TedShifrin You are indirectly asking though. That means you are a nosy curious, intelligent old man. I am using my analytic mind to apply to Online Detection.
 
Only if you so interpret it, @Balarka ....
 
4:27 PM
@Zach L.
 
he's clever that way
 
@rehband to make it rigorous you can use the epsilon idea I used in one of the proofs I showed you today.
@rehband see here i.stack.imgur.com/9ZB0r.jpg
 
@Chris'ssis Good point. I also liked how the other exercise used the simple limit $$\lim_{x\to0} x/ \log(1+x) = 1$$
 
Don't put me on ignore, now, @TedShifrin
 
Yeah that's the one
 
4:29 PM
oh, great, nosy and old ...
 
rhetorical questions and all
 
i have to run. byes.
hope @Ted won't put me on ignore
 
See you later, @Balarka-chan!
 
later
 
polls the audience to see if he should put Balarka on ignore
 
4:31 PM
nice kid
 
Don't do it, @TedShifrin!
 
I think the under-16 crowd is outnumbering the nosy, old folks.
 
can I vote twice?
 
Or even thrice?
^_^
 
Most definitely not.
 
4:32 PM
@rehband since you like the limits I'm going to show you something very beautiful taht can be done by using high school knowledge only.
 
I wouldn't say I'm old, @TedShifrin!
 
Each vote should be evaluated by the age of the voter
 
@Chris'ssis Please!
 
No, you're in the under-16 crowd, Khallil.
 
Heh? I'm 19!
 
4:33 PM
Oh, I guess you don't act it :D
 
Does it make me the youngest in chat right now? Finally at it when Balarka is gone
 
This is enjoyable :-) $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac {\displaystyle \cos 1 \cdot \arccos \frac{1}{n}+\cos\frac
{1}{2} \cdot \arccos \frac{1}{(n-1)}+ \cdots +\cos \frac{1}{n} \cdot
\arccos{1}}{n}$$
 
I think of you as having world experience, @Studentmath, for obvious reasons.
 
How old are you, @Studentmath?
 
4:34 PM
@Chris'ssis Wow. How is that deduced?
 
@rehband Well, think a bit of it (it's my creation). :-)
 
@Chris'ssis Okay. Beautiful creation
 
Have you seen the STEP papers, @Studentmath?
 
We do grow up faster in here. People of equivalent age elsewhere that come to visit always seem childish to us, but maybe that's just because we are snobbish
 
4:35 PM
@rehband Thanks :-)
 
Nope, what is it @Khalil?
 
They're mainly aimed at 18 year olds for entry to some of the 'more prestigious' universities in the UK.
I'll link you to one them!
Actually, I'll link to the most recent ones!
Here you go, @Studentmath.
 
@Khalil what counts in these universities?
 
What do you mean by 'what counts', @Studentmath?
 
@Khallil Anyhow I hope to get straight into the M.Sc aboard already. Maybe I will do it in here, not sure yet.. and which universities are in that?
 
4:40 PM
Oh, the STEP exam serves as an admissions test separate to A-Levels/IB (which are necessary for almost all universities) to get into math related courses at Cambridge, Warwick, Imperial (in some cases) and UCL (in some cases).
 
money counts in all the "more prestigious" universities
 
Of course. The world is cruel. Nepotism and inheritance far outweigh raw skill and potential.
 
I think I could do straight-to-doctorate programs in here with my current grades, might as well go for that.. But still a semester away from finishing this degree
Not always and not everywhere, but yeah @Khallil
 
@Chris'ssis Wanna send me your notes for the above limit? I'm too tried to get something productive :)
 
Prof. @Ted, how's the probability course coming up?
 
4:44 PM
Only recently did I discover that some people have holes in their hearts.
 
@rehband Well, it's simple: take the maximum term multiplied by $n$ for getting the bound on the right side and then consider AM-GM for the left side combined with Stolz theorem. Done.
 
Not in the metaphorical sense, but in a physical sense.
o_O
 
I chased away some of the students already, @Studentmath. Finished the first chapter. :)
 
@Chris'ssis What's AM-GM?
 
Actually get to probability Monday morning. Conditional probability in another two weeks, probably.
 
4:45 PM
@rehband Arithmetic Mean-Geometric Mean Inequality
 
It was combinatorics and general background, first class?
 
Basic counting principles, combinatorics, yes, the first week.
 
what's the body count left?
 
Hmm, I think 32.
 
@Chris'ssis Ah okay, first time I see that inequality
 
4:46 PM
That's a lot, for classes in here
Still, sure the flee-ers will regret it. Anyhow, gotta run, nice seeing you all here. Laters!
 
Actually, 33. And 30 in the multivariable math class.
Bubye, @Studentmath. I'm leaving too
 
See you later, @Studentmath!
 
@rehband lol, first time? Is that a joke? :-)
 
Ah, peace out, @TedShifrin!
 
later
 
4:47 PM
@Chris'ssis No serious haha :D Good inequality to know
 
I've heard of it, but I've never seen it before.
 
@rehband Yeap ;)
 
@Chris'ssis The limit is $\pi/2$, is it not?
 
@robjohn Indeed. It's nice it can be done in lots of ways.
 
@Chris'ssis Mainly just $\cos(0)\cos^{-1}(0)$
 
4:57 PM
@robjohn Right!
 
@robjohn What do you mean by this?
 
@Chris'ssis I have a problem for you.
Suppose $a_{n+1}-a_n=e^{-a_n}$. Then $a_n\sim \log n$.
@MikeMiller Hello MAIK.
 
@TedShifrin Of course I don't expect you to cover shipping... just to wait until I can afford to cover shipping :)
 
@PedroTamaroff This stuff is for kids ...
 
@Chris'ssis Come on, don't be an ass. If you can solve it just do it.
 
5:11 PM
@PedroTamaroff Sorry?
 
Did I offend you?
 
@PedroTamaroff Let me ask you a very simple question: what is the most basic way to prove that sequence tends to $\infty$?
(btw, then apply Cesaro-Stolz to $\lim_{n\to\infty} a_n/\log(n)$ and you're done)
 
@Chris'ssis I am not sure what you understand by "basic".
@Chris'ssis I tried that. I wouldn't be asking you if I didn't try things.
 
@PedroTamaroff What is the first thing to note? How is the sequence? Increasing or decreasing?
 
@Chris'ssis Sequece is increasing, clearly, and $a_n\to \infty$.
 
5:16 PM
@PedroTamaroff OK, great! You didn't tell why it tends to $\infty$. :-)
 
@Chris'ssis Using Stolz-Cesaro, one can guess it.
I didn't prove it, though.
 
@PedroTamaroff you can suppose that the limit is finite, say $l$ and then you get a contradiction.
 
@Chris'ssis OK, agreed.
 
@PedroTamaroff Futher, you apply Cesaro theorem for $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{a_n}{\log(n)}$$ (cleverly I mean)
What is the first step to do?
 
@Chris'ssis What do you mean? One gets $e^{-a_n}/\log(1+n^{-1})$ yes?
 
5:21 PM
@PedroTamaroff $$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{a_n}{\log(n)}=\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{a_{n+1} -a_n}{\log(n+1)-\log(n)}=\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{e^{-a_n}}{\log(1+1/n)}$$
@PedroTamaroff what do you observe now?
 
@Chris'ssis It suffices we show the last limit is $1$.
 
@PedroTamaroff True, but what you observe there now?
 
@Chris'ssis Isn't Cesaro linked to sums ?
 
@Hippalectryon Yes
Summability.
 
Isn't it like $\frac{1}{n+1}\sum\limits_{k=0}^{n}\text{something}$ ?
 
5:23 PM
@PedroTamaroff multiply both numerator and denominator by $n$. What do you get?
 
Ah, cool @Chris'ssis
 
@Chris'ssis Ok, bottom goes to $1$.
 
@PedroTamaroff Well, we have $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{n}{e^{a_n}}$$ Can we apply Stolz theorem again?
 
$\lim\limits_{n\to\infty}\log n-a_n$. It suffices one shows that goes to $0$.
@Chris'ssis Yes.
 
@PedroTamaroff Do it and you're done.
 
5:27 PM
Is $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{n}{e^{a_n}}$$ equal to $0$ ?
 
@MrWho No.
 
@Chris'ssis Why isn't Hopital rule applicable here?
 
@Chris'ssis I'm not entirely sure. One gets $e^{-a_n}/(e^{e^{-a_n}}-1)$
 
@PedroTamaroff $\exp(-a_n) = t$?
 
@Chris'ssis Oh that's $a_n$, $n$ is index, I thought it's power.
 
5:29 PM
@PedroTamaroff $$\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{n}{e^{a_n}}=\lim_{n\to\infty}\frac{1}{e^{a_(n+1)}-e^{a_‌​(n)}}$$ and then you replace a_{(n+1)} by the expression in the recurrence.
 
$a_n \to \infty$, so that thing tends to $0$. @Pedro
 
@Chris'ssis Ah, perfect.
I knew there was a good solution.
I didn't think about it THAT much, but it cried for Stolz Cesaro.
 
@Chris'ssis What is $a_n$ ?
 
@Hippalectryon $$a_{n+1}-a_n=e^{-a_n}$$
 
Uh :c
 
5:31 PM
Consider the function $f(z)=\frac {Re(z)}{|z|}$, why isn't it continuous?
 
@PedroTamaroff Stolz theorem is very powerful, it makes miracles.
 
@Chris'ssis Yes =)
 
@MrWho It is $x/\sqrt{x^2+y^2}$.
What do you think?
@Chris'ssis There was a horrible solution in a competition here last year.
I was sure there was a good solution.
 
@PedroTamaroff Really?
 
5:32 PM
@PedroTamaroff Not by telescoping I presume?
 
@Chris'ssis Yep. It was awful.
@BalarkaSen No.
 
Hmp.
 
@PedroTamaroff How should I solve such limit?
@PedroTamaroff It's multivariable.
 
@Pedro Perhaps then by logging?
 
@PedroTamaroff Yeah, this discussion reminds me of some nice sequence I solved in the past where I found a very nice solution, a kind of generalization. Let me find it.
 
5:34 PM
@BalarkaSen It was awful. I can show it to you, but I'd think you'd better not see it. =D
@MrWho Aha. It is continuous everywhere except at $(0,0)$.
 
@PedroTamaroff I'd like to see it.
 
Consider approaching $(0,0)$ through a line $y=ax$.
What is the limit?
 
@PedroTamaroff doesn't exist?!
 
@PedroTamaroff What kind of competition is that?
@PedroTamaroff Limit doesn't exist, right?
 
5:36 PM
@MrWho Argentinian, universities against each other.
 
Like I said, by logging.
Let's see.
 
@PedroTamaroff Undergraduate?!
@PedroTamaroff Graduate?
 
Undergrad.
 
graduate students don't usually compete in straight-up 'competitions". there are more subtle ways to compete
 
@PedroTamaroff How do you solve the limit I showed?
 
5:40 PM
@MrWho You already observed the limit doesn't exist.
 
They started with a good idea but kinda jumbled up the arguments at the end. I do believe there is a way by telescoping though.
 
@PedroTamaroff I have uncertainty about it. :|
 
I'll think about it.
 
@BalarkaSen What's the question?
That log series?!
 
@MrWho Will you just scroll above?
 
5:41 PM
$$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{a_n}{\log(n)}$$?
 
Yes, that one.
 
what is $a_n$? any particular series?
 
Scroll above.
 
@BalarkaSen Cannot find it.
 
32 mins ago, by Pedro Tamaroff
Suppose $a_{n+1}-a_n=e^{-a_n}$. Then $a_n\sim \log n$.
 
5:43 PM
@BalarkaSen Thanks
@BalarkaSen The main question is the limit computation, right?
 
@PedroTamaroff Found it! :D (the generalization is created by me)
 
@Chris'ssis Holy shit ! :D
2
 
@Chris'ssis Just wondering, do those problems have any practical applications ?
 
@Hippalectryon Sure, even if I don't have one in mind right now.
Out for some jogging now.
 
6:16 PM
It's raining (better say) ... :-(
 
Where do you live again ?
 
@Hippalectryon In Romania.
 
Ah :O it's rare to see Romanian mathematicians for me (no offense)
 
@Hippalectryon Well, this country is full of brilliant mathematicians. Actually it always was like that.
 
@Chris'ssis I live in France so unfortunately we don't really study what happens in eastern countries other than Russia :/
 
6:20 PM
@TrogdorTheBurninator It's OK, it's your opinion. By the way, I highly recommend you to check this book if you have the possibility - springer.com/mathematics/analysis/book/978-1-4614-6761-8
(by Ovidiu Furdui - a Romanian mathematician)
 
Any way to get it for free ?
 
@Hippalectryon I don't know. I received an original copy from the author not long time ago. (with dedication to me :-) )
 
@Hippalectryon It's the best book I have ever seen in my life.
 
I'm <18 and studying so I live at my paren't expense :c I can't really buy books myself
 
6:23 PM
(about limits, series and integrals)
@TrogdorTheBurninator If you have a friend that has it, ask him to give it to you a few days.
 
prntscr.com/4fpoih isn't that some riemann stuff ?
@Chris'ssis I doubt any of my friends buy that kind of books :c
We're studying for competitive exams so we buy huge exercise books from the previous years
They are already really expensive
However i'll bookmark the page, i'll ask for my birthday or something :)
 
@Hippalectryon I solved some open problems form that book. Well, I might say anything about that book, but I wouldn't like to be misunderstood: it's really the best book I have ever read on this topic. :-)
 
:D
@Chris'ssis Btw, do you have a website/blog ?
 
@Hippalectryon No, I don't have.
 
6:29 PM
@Hippalectryon No website/blog
 
Too bad :c
 
@Hippalectryon btw, yesterday I created this one. Did you see it? $$\int_0^1\sqrt{x}\tan^{\large 1/2^2}(2\arctan(x))\tan^{\large 1/2^3}(2^2\arctan(x))\tan^{\large 1/2^4}(2^3\arctan(x))\cdots \ dx = \log(2)$$
 
That looks pretty
I wasn't here yesterday
 
Yeah, it is.
 
I haven't been here for 3 weeks
 
6:31 PM
OK
 
6:52 PM
let me create some more
 
Yay :D
 
$$\lim_{n\to\infty} \frac{1}{\log(n)}\sum_{k=1}^{n} \log\left(\tan\left(\frac{k \pi }{2n+1}\right)\right)$$
 
7:06 PM
The point is this one is meant to be finished in the spirit of the math art.
:D
 
7:16 PM
@rehband the measure of the area where the integrand is far from $\cos(0)\cos^{-1}(0)$ is very small for big $n$, so we can just treat it as $\cos(0)\cos^{-1}(0)$
 
@Chris'ssis I'm looking for batman function :D
 
@MrWho I see. Did you finish the work you started yesterday? :-)
@MrWho I mean this one $$\arctan(\sinh(x))=\displaystyle 2\arctan\left(\tanh\left(\frac{x}{2}\right)\right)$$
 
@Chris'ssis so do your series and whatnot come from natural sources, or do you construct them based on things you'd like to use?
 
@AlexanderGruber Well, some come from the study of other series, some from my research. I think the answer is much more complex than what I provided. Some things simply come to mind in an unexplainable way.
 
7:30 PM
@Chris'ssis Not really.
It's on my waiting list paper!
 
@AlexanderGruber At the moment I'm a river of ideas, creativity, I might create lots of series, integrals and limits every day. I mean I don't put great efforts to do that, things comes in a natural way.
It's like bike riding.
 
@Chris'ssis hmm. what i mean is this, sometimes when i'm doing group theory, i'll be in the process of looking at some group
 
I remember that some time ago I posted on channel one of the series I dreamt. :-)
 
it'll have property X, and i'll think, "what other groups have property X?" or "what does property X do to this group?"
but then other times, i'll just be sitting around, and i'll think, "hey it would be really weird if there were groups that had property X. i wonder if there are some."
so one is like me solving something that comes at me, from an external source, the other is more like me just messing around and trying to solve my own weird idea.
 
@AlexanderGruber Yeah, I also attend weird ideas, pretty often. It might be a good starting point for making discoveries. :-)
 
7:38 PM
i've always been much better at the second one than the first. :p
 
@AlexanderGruber I'm always good at the things I love, either they come from external sources or not.
@AlexanderGruber If I don't like something, it's hard to get a good result. My mind refuses to focus on that.
 
Can you apply the constant function theorem to that problem, @Chris'ssis?
$$\arctan(\sinh(x))=\displaystyle 2\arctan\left(\tanh\left(\frac{x}{2}\right)\right)$$
 
@Khallil No, I said this one can be done elementarily. I asked @MrWho to do it in an elementary way.
 
@Chris'ssis It can be done with differentiation, but as you said, I'm thinking of an elementary way.Indeed, I ran out of ink.
 
@Khallil one might use the fact that $$\sinh(x)=2\sinh\left(\frac{x}{2}\right)\cosh\left(\frac{x}{2}\right)$$
 
7:49 PM
@Chris'ssis The annoying thing is the number 2 outside.
 
@MrWho That is meant to help you. :-)
 
@Chris'ssis $2=2cosh^2(x)-2sinh^2(x)$
 
@MrWho If you start from the left side, then you have some work to do in that part. Use the identity above. :-)
 

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