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9:00 PM
You get a differentiable function by integrating a continuous one, so the extreme points would have to be at zeroes of that integrand, and it has none, unless all the $a_i$ are the same.
ok, @Hippa, got it. Thanks. Maybe I'll steal some later.
 
:)
 
@alizter Many high school kids here like to apply to Harvard and MIT these days, not knowing about Cambridge, lol.
 
@TedShifrin You probably know already, but the hardest are the one tagged ENS and X
 
OK, back to my old question. Why does Germany have so few Fields medallists compared to France and USA?
 
@WillHunting 'cause we're better :D
 
9:06 PM
@TheGame My impression of France is limited to two movies: Cold Showers and Mr Bean's Holiday, lol.
 
@TedShifrin how are those formulae about median and mean derived? What from?
 
@Hippa: I put a comment on his answer to you. But I just wrote down two easy rotations in $\Bbb R^3$, and their sum is nowhere near being in $C_3$.
What formulae, @Alizter?
 
sorry
the expressions that have minima
at the median and the mean
 
oh, @Jasper: You need to see Les Vacances de Monsieur Hulot or Mon Oncle (Jacques Tati)
 
@TedShifrin Thanks
 
9:08 PM
well, the first is least squares, which everyone knows. I found the second in Spivak's Calculus. I don't know where he came across it.
 
hmmm
 
:17967092
 
mr @Pedro ! You speaking in tongues again?
 
@PedroTamaroff Do you know a function that has minima at the mode of $a_i$?
for the mean of $a_i$ we have $\sum_{i=1}^n|x- a_i|$
 
no @Alizter.
 
9:20 PM
too sleepy
bleh
Good night all
 
night, @Alizter.
 
@Alizter See you in your dreams.
 
@WillHunting they are both male, but for health reasons it is a good idea
@Alizter Ugh... I think I answered your question
 
guess you're slowly turning into a complete zoo, @robjohn :P
 
@robjohn There is homosexuality in the animal world too, lol.
 
9:22 PM
@WillHunting they won't create a bunny ranch, though.
 
LOL ... your other pets wouldn't appreciate a bunny ranch
 
0
A: Perfect square then it is odd

Will Hunting$S=4x^5-4x+1=2(2x^5-2x)+1$ is odd, so if it is a perfect square its square root must be odd.

Wow, my answer has a delete vote?
I am pissed!
I am very sad...
OK, enough drama...
 
indeed
 
But who cast the vote? I wonder... I have made some enemies I guess, lol.
I have a feeling it is X, lol.
 
not I ... I haven't even looked.
 
9:26 PM
I posted the first correct answer.
It is very rude to cast a delete vote on it...
 
look @Jasper, just be glad you aren't embroiled in the personal attacks I was last night.
 
Yeah, I am sorry about last night. You should ignore him.
 
@TedShifrin WAT
 
It's my responsibility to comment on/correct mistakes that people post ... if I notice them.
I would be very upset if someone didn't correct me for fear of a world war.
 
What happened last night ?
 
9:30 PM
@Pedro: Above that was a random number ...
 
@TheGame Someone told Ted to stop stalking little boys...
 
@TedShifrin It was a failed ping, actually.
 
no, @Jasper, he told me to leave him alone and go back to stalking little boys.
 
woooot ?
 
ah @Pedro
He does have a point. The average age in here is probably 17. :D
I don't believe I've stalked anyone.
 
9:32 PM
@pedro is a little boy, lol.
 
@WillHunting Seriously?
 
Anyhow, I don't want to keep talking about it. But the guy is mentally deranged (nothing personal, @Jasper) and clearly a homophobic twit.
Anything good today from complex analysis, @Pedro?
 
@TedShifrin When someone has a surface $S$ in $\bf R^3$ and a vector field there, "the flux of $F$ through $S$" always means $$\int_S F\cdot \vec ndS$$ right?
@TedShifrin No. Today I slacked off.
 
oriented surface, yes (I prefer to say "across")
I presume your class — which you're not attending — has homework and exams, @Pedro?
 
@TedShifrin Homework no, exams yes.
 
9:35 PM
I assume you are keeping up with what you need for exams?
The whole idea of math courses without exercises and feedback is an anathema to me ...
 
@TedShifrin Yes, I think I am.
@TedShifrin There is feedback, but you're supposed to look for it.
 
Do you have a spy in the class who tells you what they're doing?
 
I mean, the students should go and ask, consult, &c.
If they feel they need to do "homework", they can. It is not compulsory.
 
On a lot of math, you've gotten more feedback from me than from many of your profs, @Pedro.
 
@TedShifrin I was planning to go there myself, but I have failed to do so.
 
9:37 PM
I think it must be X who cast the delete vote, lol.
Anyway, I deleted the answer myself.
 
My students who don't do homework are failing my course. And I have told some 5 times that they need to come get help from me; they refuse. They're going to fail the course. Sigh.
 
By the way, X, Y and Z have stopped their silly comments, lol.
 
I presume you're Y and Z, @Jasper.
Oh, no, you haven't stopped.
 
Hehe
 
@TedShifrin NO!
 
9:40 PM
@TheGame @Ted @Pedro \o
 
\o
 
@Studentmath Hi.
 
@Will !
How goes it jasper?
 
@Studentmath Oh dear, my enemy used to say that to me!
 
You had enemies?
 
9:41 PM
@Studentmath !!!
 
@Studentmath I have 1 enemy on SE.
 
Enemy is a very strong word
 
@Jasper, seriously, most of us like (or at least tolerate :D) you, so chill out.
 
I can be quite petty, like a girl.
 
I had the oddest mark-off on a test, I defined the functiong $g(2n)=n$, and it's a function from $N\to N$. Isn't it?
 
9:43 PM
oh great, now add sexist comments.
 
OK, that was not meant to be a sexist remark.
 
I also obviosuly said $n \in N$
Hahaha
You complete each other
 
@Studentmath $0\in\mathbb{N}$?
False anyway
 
I hope nobody flags me, lol.
 
lol
 
9:44 PM
So @Pedro @Studentmath: An interesting thing happened with one of the probability homeworks that two of my best students were working on. They were given a problem to find a probability that something happens in $n$ turns. They were supposed to conjecture the formula, then give a recursion formula and prove it.
 
Hello @TedShifrin
 
@Thegame why? The domain is N, and the image is N!
 
@TedShifrin OK.
 
@Studentmath g(3)=?
 
Never stated the domain is -whole- of N..
 
9:45 PM
They cheated and came up with the recursion formula $$f(n) = f(n-1)+\frac1{4n^2-1}.$$ The honest way gives the recursion formula $$f(n) = \frac{(2n-1)f(n-1)+1}{2n+1}.$$ Would you buy this?
 
@Studentmath wait just to be sure, are you defining an application or a function ?
 
What do you mean cheated? @Ted
 
@Studentmath An application $A\rightarrow B$ means $\forall a\in A,f(a)\in B$ and therefore exists
 
They deduced the recursion formula (the first one) from their guess for the answer, not by thinking recursively.
 
I am not sure @Thegame. I will just take these 5 points off..
 
9:46 PM
@Studentmath See my post above
 
@Studentmath: application is French for function/map.
 
@TedShifrin Uh
 
Oh no, I never claimed it was a map.
 
@TedShifrin Then, what is the english equivalent of function ?
 
LOL ... In French you can say "application" or "fonction" ... but in English, only the latter.
 
9:47 PM
Application $f$ from $\Bbb N$ to itself
Sounds weird
 
We don't say that word in English.
 
@TedShifrin So, a function $A\rightarrow B$ need to be defined over all $A$, right ?
 
sure
 
@Studentmath see ?
 
@Thegame never argued I missused the definitions
 
9:49 PM
map $\equiv$ function, right?
 
(__(
 
@Thegame but yeah, that figures these 5 points, thanks
@Ted What do you mean by buy this?
They did it the other way around, but they did get the results needed
 
@Balarka: Any thoughts on what I typed with two recursion formulas above?
 
@TedShifrin What is le problem?
 
le problem
 
9:51 PM
Where are they?
 
No, @Studentmath, assuming their conjecture was right led them to the first. Probability theory leads one to the second. However, both turn out to be correct. Looking at the difference equations, one would say that can't happen. @Balarka, too
 
Oh these
7 mins ago, by Ted Shifrin
They cheated and came up with the recursion formula $$f(n) = f(n-1)+\frac1{4n^2-1}.$$ The honest way gives the recursion formula $$f(n) = \frac{(2n-1)f(n-1)+1}{2n+1}.$$ Would you buy this?
jinx
 
Hah, interesting
What was the original question? finding what in n turns?
 
yes, can't say anything without the original problem
 
ah, you have a probability of $1/(2i+1)$ of success on the $i$th turn. What's $P_n$, the probability of an odd number of successes in $n$ turns?
 
9:54 PM
uh. the first one seems to be a cheat.
 
That's a really nice question by the way
 
LOL @TheGame
 
smacks @Hippa hard
 
xD
I forgot to read da whole thing
 
That's another one to add to the list
 
9:55 PM
I have to keep you occupied, @Balarka.
 
I wonder what kind of cheat they did though
 
Read what I wrote above :)
 
Ah oh they guessed
 
Are we sure it gives the same results for all n?
 
Manipulate, @Studentmath
Those are equivalent
 
9:59 PM
No, they're only equivalent for the given initial condition. Only that one!
 
The equations? They aren't @Balarka!
 
Humph grumph hmm
 
I should either get a bigger screen or scroll down before I post
 
what're the initial conditions again?
 
hi @anorton
 
10:01 PM
Hi
How are you?
 
Alive ... despite all the drama last night :P
how're your studies going?
 
The probability of success on $i$'th turn is $1/(2i+1)$
 
@TedShifrin Fuhget about it.
 
They're going well. At the last minute, I changed my mind about going to Virginia Tech and took my offer to go to University of Virginia instead to study CS.
 
10:02 PM
@DanielF !!
 
We have $n$ turns and we want the probability of odd number of successes in $n$ turns @Balarka
 
aww @anorton
 
@Chris'ssis Show that $$\lim_{t\to 1^{-}}(1-t)^{1/2}\sum_{n\geqslant 1} (t^{n^2}-2t^{2n^2})$$ exists and is negative.
 
Wow, double exclamation mark. Hi @Ted.
 
Yes, those are for higher mortals, @DanielF
@AndrewG!
 
10:03 PM
@TedShifrin Yeah... sorry about that. But, this way gives me a bit more room in my schedule to take extra math classes, about which I'm happy. :)
 
heyo balarka :)
 
Why do they give the same results always...
 
I'm taking Survey of Algebra and an "Applied Probability" course.
 
@DanielFischer I have a problem of groups.
 
I really think I should have taken the Probability course instead of the applied variant...
 
10:04 PM
@PedroTamaroff Oh. What sort of groups?
 
@DanielFischer A normal group of order $9$ in a group of order $9\cdot 7\cdot 25$ is central.
 
@PedroTamaroff I have done that. it's in D-F.
 
:17968131 Apparently.
So I have things worked out.
 
@PedroTamaroff What automorphisms has a group of order $9$?
(How many)
 
@DanielFischer Depends. $C_9$ has $C_6$, but $C_3\times C_3$ has $GL(2,3)$.
 
10:08 PM
Well the auto of the subgroup has order 2^4 * 3 or 2 * 3
 
@PedroTamaroff Right. So if the group is cyclic, you're done.
And what's the order of $GL(2,3)$?
 
What is $GL(n,m)$ ?
 
@TheGame General linear group
 
$GL(n,\mathbb{F}_m)$
 
@Ted I really don't get why they give the same results.
 
10:10 PM
I only know $GL(E)$ where $E$ is a vector space
 
@TheGame F_m is a field
 
And $n$ ?
 
@Ted at least when I try to express the first recursion as a statement of the probability
 
@DanielFischer got a question about Fourier coefficients, if you don't mind?
 
The nXn square matrices
 
10:10 PM
it's the unique initial condition that allows it, @Studentmath. That's simple algebra.
 
@TheGame $GL(n,F) = GL(F^n)$
 
@DanielFischer $(3^2-3)(3^2-1)=6\times 8$.
 
Ooh ok @DanielFischer
 
GL(2, 3) is my favorite group ;)
Well, second favorite.
 
@Ted the latter formula gives a statement about the probability, the first might give the right results - which is, if what asked, just fine - but I can't get its statement about the probability.
 
10:12 PM
Right. They got it from the pattern that led to the conjecture of the nice form of the general formula for $f(n)$.
 
@DanielFischer So, let's see if I get what's going on here. We have a morphism $\eta: G\to {\rm Aut}(H)$ that sends $g\in G$ to $h\mapsto ghg^{-1}$.
It suffices to show that both this maps are trivial.
 
@PedroTamaroff Right.
 
In the first case, we need a map $\eta:G\to C_6$.
 
@Ted you can feel they guessed there indeed
 
That is necessary and sufficient.
 
10:14 PM
oh wait I misread GL(2, 3) as GL(3, 2) which has order 168. I was wondering how 48 came to play
 
Since $G$ has no element of order $2$, the $C_2$ part is trivial, and since the elements of order $3$ are in $C_9=H$, the map is trivial, @DanielFischer
Then we're going to look at $\eta :G\to {\rm GL}(2,3)$.
 
@PedroTamaroff you're breaking up C6 in C2 \times C3, right?
 
@BalarkaSen Yes.
 
hmm. looks good.
 
@PedroTamaroff So what do you know about $\ker \eta$, and what about the image of $H$ in $G/\ker \eta$?
 
10:19 PM
@Ted do you have any interesting problems to keep me busy this weekend? Yom Kippur so no electricity used
@Pedro if you have anything graph-theory related, too
 
LOL @Studentmath :)
 
@DanielFischer If $f(x) = \sum{c_n e^{2\pi i nx}}$, I can multiply through by $e^{2\pi i m x}$, integrate, interchange orders of summation and integration, and use orthogonality to kill off all but $c_m$, etc., the usual thing. But that's all formal. When is that actually justified? There are smoothness requirements on $f(x)$ or something, right?
 
@AndrewG You're integrating over $[0,1]$ or something of the sort, right? It suffices if the series converges to $f$ in the $L^2$ sense.
 
10:29 PM
11 mins ago, by Daniel Fischer
@PedroTamaroff So what do you know about $\ker \eta$, and what about the image of $H$ in $G/\ker \eta$?
@Pedro ^^ ?
Well, night everybody.
 
10:45 PM
@DanielFischer Don't leave!
I was on the phone.
Sorry.
So.
Eh, let me think fast here.
The image of $H$ is trivial.
And since $G/\ker \eta\simeq {\rm im}\eta$ is a subgroup of ${\rm GL}(2,3)$ and it can only have things of order $3$, it must be trivial.
So $\ker \eta =G$ and the map is trivial.
Yes, @Daniel?
 
@PedroTamaroff What d'you mean things of order 3?
I don't follows you why $\text{im} \eta$ is trivial
 
@BalarkaSen Well, $|\eta(x)|\mid |x|$ for each $x\in G$.
 
Oh I see
$\eta$ acts by conjugation
 
So the possible orders of $\eta(x)$ are the divisors of $(3^25^27,2^43)=3$.
 
Makes sense. Thus $\eta(x)$ must have either order $3$ or $1$.
Why can't it have order 3?
OK, it can have order 3, and there's implication of triviality.
 
10:51 PM
@BalarkaSen Because $H$ is killed.
$H$ is abelian.
So for any $h$, $\eta(h)$ is trivial.
 
Eh?
Ah groups of order 9.
 
And since $H$ is unique (it is a Sylow subgroup) the elements of order $3$ are there.
 
Fair enough. That looks good.
 
11:11 PM
Is there a name for a set with two binary operations?
 
Depends on how the two binary ops act on the underlying set
 
Let's say they can act in any way at all.
 
Then it's not interesting at all.
 
Well neither is a magma I assume, yet we have a name for it.
 
You can equip a given set of order n with 2^(2^n) operators. How is that even interesting?
 
11:16 PM
Don't you mean n^(n^2)?
 
Possibly. It's not hard to enumerate but I am too lazy to do it atm =P
@AbstractionOfMe On the other hand, if the two binary operators satisfy some fundamental relations while acting on the same underlying set X, they can be interesting.
Rings, for example, are such a structure.
 

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