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5:00 PM
well, combined with ...
 
Okay, so yes, the new tag can apply to any number of variables? :)
 
And we also have already.
 
...and I suppose we could also throw in some of those Gâteaux and Fréchet questions we have?
 
(whoever came up with that ghastly term in the distant past, we're not analyzing vectors there, as far as I can tell :))
 
Heh. Too late to rename that section, I think.
 
5:04 PM
@JM I recently eliminated a new because I felt it was overly specific, but apparently there's quite a bit of confusion there.
(funny, the [tag:...] doesn't like diacritics :))
:)
 
@tb Oh, I saw that before it was nuked... :)
 
@JM I plea guilty of that. I gotta go for a while, maybe we'll talk again tomorrow morning (for you), afterwards I'll be gone for about a week. So, see you later or next week.
 
That long, huh? Have a good one. See you!
 
@tb have fun and bye
 
@tb: Have a good time!
 
5:11 PM
@Matt: so can I ask you at least about your geolocation? )
 
@Ilya What do you mean? I think you have already done so! : )
 
@Matt you mean, I've asked?
 
@Ilya yes!
 
He told you already, Ilya. Check the transcript. ;)
 
@Matt I thought you told me 'wrong guess', no?
 
5:13 PM
@Ilya He was talking about the dog breed guess.
 
ah... so @Matt, you're a student at ETH, right?
 
Maybe. Why?
 
Have fun, @tb. In case I don't see you around.
 
Huhu! I answered a question in analysis.
 
ok, see you someday too. tomorrow I have to go to Brussels, early wake up at 5 am and I better go home now
 
5:16 PM
@Ilya: Okay, have a nice trip! : )
 
@Dylan: I'm guessing you now have a new adviser?
 
@Matt maybe. why? :-p
 
See you, Ilya.
 
: P
@Ilya: You could've left the WALL, it was not offensive in any way...
 
See you, @Ilya.
 
5:18 PM
@Matt depends on who is imagined to reach the WALL ;) though, this time it was me
 
@Ilya: yeah, sorry for that, it's not open to everyone. ; )
 
@Matt I just thought of this possible meaning of the WALL for the first time
though I would never write it here to mean that I would like somebody from this room to reach the WALL
 
@AsafKaragila I presume you'll be taking a cleaning bath afterwards... :P
 
anyway, writing WALL without smiley is boring, so I erased it
 
@JM I may have considered that course of action.
 
5:22 PM
You'll rend your garments, too?
 
@AsafKaragila And - surprisingly - there is no mention of AC in your answer... :-)
3
 
I know! :-)
 
5:39 PM
@AsafKaragila: In your answer here the third sentence is not a proper sentence.
 
@Matt (In case you didn't know.) Note: you can link to answers directly: e.g., math.stackexchange.com/q/57439/13425.
 
In my possession: Laphroaig Cask Strength (10yr).
 
...and in fact, you can choose to remove the last numbers that comprise your user ID in those links, if desired.
 
@Srivatsan I did but that's ugly.
 
@JM Don't follow your comment. (In fact, who were you addressing this to?)
 
5:44 PM
@JonasTeuwen ...and you're drinking it now?
 
@JM Not yet!
 
@Srivatsan I meant something like http://math.stackexchange.com/q/57439 works. :)
@JonasTeuwen "yet". Uh-oh...
 
@JM First I'll smell it.
 
5:56 PM
@Matt What doth thou mean..th?
 
Huh? English please.
 
What do you mean?
Doth = do; thou = you. Ye Olde English Rules.
 
@AsafKaragila "Since we defined cardinality as equivalence classes, if we show that (A^B)^C is equinumerous with A^(B×C) for arbitrary sets." Perhaps you meant something like "...as equivalence classes, it suffices to show that.."
 
I was looking at Martin's answer and wondered why the heck I can't see what you guys were trying to say.
 
@JM Not as far as I'm aware!
 
6:07 PM
@AsafKaragila: Well read the third sentence -> parse error
 
I spend a lot of time on the subway now, but that's all that's really changed for me.
 
Yes, I corrected that.
 
@DylanMoreland Oh. Matt E isn't your adviser?
I suppose I remember wrongly...
 
He is.
 
@AsafKaragila: Cool, thanks, I had to clear my browser's cache
 
6:11 PM
We're still in the same city. It's a large city, but so far so good.
 
@Dylan: I see. So he can still be your adviser even if he's on a different university. That's an arrangement I haven't seen before. :)
 
It's quite common. People move.
 
@JM: One of the professors in my university was an advisor of someone from Germany.
 
And there aren't a lot of Matts in the world.
 
How 'bout that? Not even in the same country!
 
6:12 PM
bbl, pub time
 
@DylanMoreland Heh, yes.
 
@Srivatsan You're doing spelling exersices, as I see: math.stackexchange.com/posts/76946/revisions
 
In particular I don't know of anyone who does his sort of work besides Kisin. And Kisin is quite far away.
 
Thanks for answering, Dylan. I've learned something today! :)
@MartinSleziak You know that old saw: "there is always one lsat typo..."
 
yay, I wrote my first answer in months!
now I wonder if i overdid it...
 
6:16 PM
@MartinSleziak =) You were my inspiration. math.stackexchange.com/posts/85316/revisions
 
@Srivatsan I thought so.
On that note, it seems that English language is problem for some users.
 
@Srivatsan there're still some elephants in that room ;)
 
I mean to the extent that they have problems expressing clearly what they are asking and sometimes they don't understand answers.
 
@AlexeiAverchenko I can't find any.
 
look at the comments :)
 
6:21 PM
@MartinSleziak One case I remember, I coaxed the OP into writing in his native language. Luckily somebody edited in a translation after a few minutes.
 
actually, my answer seems kind of incomplete :(
0
A: How come the columns of a matrix can form its nullspace?

Alexei AverchenkoSure, $$\operatorname{dom}A \cong \operatorname{ker}A \oplus \operatorname{im}A,$$ but it's not an equality, the equality is actually $$\operatorname{dom}A \cong \operatorname{ker}A \oplus \operatorname{im}{}^t\!\!A.$$ [I like to do things abstractly, but you can just pretend that in the followin...

 
@JM I remember seeing some question in different language (was it French?). I think it was quite reasonable thing to do.
 
does the equality hold for infinite dimensional vector spaces?
 
@JM It seems there are several questions that were translated to English: math.stackexchange.com/questions/54619/point-in-geometry math.stackexchange.com/questions/65220/…
The first one is Serbian. I am not sure about the second one - maybe Portuguese.
But that was probaly not the question you meant.
 
I added the Serb -> English translation =)
 
6:30 PM
The second one's Spanish.
 
Yes. Arturo's answer has a Spanish translation as well.
@JM Really? When will I finish simplifying? =)
 
@AlexeiAverchenko Hm. Over a general field, how do I get a pairing like that in the infinitely dimensional case?
Wow, good spelling/grammar by me :-/
Touch typing for life.
 
@Srivatsan It's a bit messy, sure. But doable.
 
Or even over R, for that matter.
 
@DylanMoreland by specifying coefficients for the Hamel basis, or am I not getting it? :)
wait, do we actually need a pairing?
ah, I see
 
6:43 PM
I'm not sure. I'm just trying to carry out your program.
 
right, then infinite dimensional case is a pipe dream :)
 
I'm out. Later.
 
Later, @JM.
 
7:02 PM
@Martin: Be sure not to retag too many questions.
 
I'll try not to.
 
I'd recommend a rate of 4-5 questions about twice a day or so.
 
@AsafKaragila Here we discussed the same thing: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/36?m=2524254#2524254
I'll slow down.
 
thumbsup
 
7:39 PM
Neat! 17,666 reputation!
 
I have a hunch this question had an answer earlier (I even remember commenting on it). Can a 10k+ user confirm? Thanks!
 
7:55 PM
It did. You pointed out an error after which the author deleted it, commenting: thanks. I'll try it one last time, if I still don't get it right I'll stop posting on mathSE after having had one beer...
 
=) Thanks, Henning.
I guess it's hopeless to look for elementary closed-form answers for that question...
 
Yes, unless one can come up with some really clever combinatorial argument.
OTOH, it's not obvious that the OP is asking for an elementary closed form -- just an algorithm to compute it might well satisfy him.
(Like: set up a Markov chain counting number of consecutive successes, with a trap state if the limit is reached. Write down its transition matrix. Raise to the Yth power).
 
I want to answer one more question today.
Someone ask some nice AC question :-)
 
@HenningMakholm Um, that's a nice idea.
(Unrelated to the question, but) May be it has a simple generating function.
I am kind of positive Flajolet and Sedgewick would discuss this problem...
(at least for the symmetric (i.e., X=1/2) case.)
@AsafKaragila But your neat rep?
 
Neat schmeat. I want to cap out for the day, and it's like 3 votes away :-)
 
8:10 PM
Well, I'm capped already, so you can have the Markov chain idea ;-)
 
I can? I don't think that I can...
 
@AsafKaragila Okay. Then how about: Are there any purely arithmetic statements that are undecidable in ZF but determined by either AC or !AC?
 
Every arithmetic statement is also Pi^1_1, right?
(I am not that knowledgeable in this area, sadly)
 
Beats me. I kind of spaced out each time one of my lecturers started with one of those snazzy Pi-Sigma-Delta hierarchies.
 
If the answer is yes, then we can refer to Shoenfeld's absoluteness theorem.
If it was true in V, it was true in L and vice versa.
Since L is the same in forcing extensions, we have that forcing cannot change arithmetic statements.
 
8:17 PM
All I've managed to digest about forcing yet seems to assume AC as a background fact.
 
To quote Arnold Miller's paper's footnote: "When I was a graduate student in the early 1970's and puzzles over whether the ground model must satisfy AC, Jack Silver told me, "But forcing has nothing to do with the Axiom of Choice.""
 
Pi^1_n seems to belong to descriptive set theory, which I know nothing about.
 
Well, the Borel/Projective hierarchies match arithmetical/analytical hierarchies of formulae.
 
Maybe for answering this math.stackexchange.com/questions/85349 you can get a few upvotes.
 
If only I could :-)
 
8:27 PM
lol
I see you don't find that question worth your qualities.
 
I probably could, but I am trying to remember the proof my friend gave me for some interesting AC related topic which came up on the site. I may succeed and then write an answer.
I am glad to see that my new meta thread is getting good support (+7 at the moment), as I was feared it would be downvoted.
 
Hm. I had a downvote on Nov 21. Can you see it?
Can you see enough to deduce that I also downvoted something myself that day?
 
Sure. My point is that on the main profile page you cannot see it.
There are no "traces" of downvoting, I believe.
 
Well, I lose a point for downvoting, so a sufficiently keen observer should be able to deduce that I've downvoted something. Which total rep change do you see for me on Nov 21?
 
8:44 PM
Interesting. My own view says 117.
 
I could have deduced a downvote if it would say 117...
 
9:05 PM
Neat. I am getting closer to the cap.
 
@HenningMakholm I don't think anyone can see how you voted, though people with enough rep can see the downvotes against you.
 
Does it require rep to see the downvotes on the user profile?
Also, everybody can see the total number of downvotes I've ever cast. Someone who polls my user page regularly can figure out roughly when I downvoted.
 
@Ilya Don't take it personally, because it's not. (To view what I'm referring to click arrow to the left of '@...')
 
Except ... either I'm a complete misanthrope compared to the rest of you, or only some of a user's downvotes are tallied when someone else views their user page. How many up/downvotes do you guys see on my user page?
 
479/48
 
9:17 PM
OK, that's the same as I see.
So it seems I'm crueler than most.
 
Why do you worry about who can deduce whether you down voted or not?
 
It makes you feel in power: The Downvote.
 
@HenningMakholm t.b.'s down vote count, for comparison: 175
Although, I do think that you seem harsh and rude compared to him...
 
@Matt I don't (worry). Just curious.
 
@JonasTeuwen: It has no effect on me. I don't think down voting is nice, so I don't.
 
9:29 PM
You're not like "OH YEAH!!!" after you pushed the button?
 
lol? why would I?
 
@Matt t.b. is at about 15 upvotes per downvote. I'm at 10.
 
Compare with mine, 2635/21 :-)
 
@JonasTeuwen: Like I said, I don't push the button. If I think someone says something wrong then I can write a comment. And if a question doesn't belong here it's more constructive to vote to close rather than to down vote.
 
Or robjohn at infty.
 
9:32 PM
@Matt Bill is harsher =) // I was surprised when I saw those numbers.
 
@Srivatsan: Never met him, lucky me : )
Bill Cook? Or who?
Bill Cook has only got 3 down votes.
 
Dubuque.
When I was checking these numbers for the first time, I was surprised how varied the voting pattern could be.
 
More down than up?? : O
 
On the front page of the users-by-votes-this-month, it seems I'm bested (worsted?) only by cosine666 (5.2 up per down), Austin Mohr (5.7 up per down) and Benjamin Lim (6.7 up per down).
 
@Matt You don't? How odd.
 
9:48 PM
On the other hand here is a royal sourpuss I can look up to in awe and wonder.
1502 up, 3710 down.
 
Are there keyboards that type an apostrophe as ´ rather than '? If you want the context, the OP of this question always uses the former kind of aphostrophe marks, and I am not too fond of it.
 
I think you'd have to purposefully press the key for the wrong apostrophe.
 
Keyboard layouts for languages that use accents typically have dead-key accents somewhere, which are used to type, say, è. If the key you press after the dead key is not something that can be composed with the accent (in the keyboard lay-out designer's charset), the dead-key is converted to a free-floating accent such as ` or ´.
My impression is that some users habitually use this method for typing apostrophes, because they have never noticed that there's a difference between an appostrophe and a free accent.
 
Um, that makes sense. Thanks.
[I do get the impression that the user is not a native English speaker, so the accent theory checks out.]
 
10:17 PM
I like thick German accents. @tb @Matt Do you have a thick German accent?
 
@JonasTeuwen: define thick.
 
@JonasTeuwen: Meaning, do we sound retarded when we speak? Yes, probably.
 
No, not retarded :D.
 
Seriously, I can't tell whether we have a thick accent.
: )
@JonasTeuwen: I think all Swiss accents are thick.
 
10:23 PM
I am going to upgrade bash, kernel, xorg stuff and the nvidia driver. I should return in 10 minutes or so. When I do, I demand to have 15 or more reputation points.
 
: )
@JonasTeuwen: So you've not been to Switzerland.
 
That is correct.
@AsafKaragila Why do you have to quit?
Rebooting for those things is so ...
Mac wants to reboot for kernel updates.
So lame.
 
I am in love with my mac book pro.
 
Why are you in love with a device that is unable to return your love?
 
It returns my feelings: never let's me down, never causes pain or nuisance : )
 
QED
10:30 PM
hello
 
hi
 
Something looks different.
 
The font is all...fonty.
@JonasTeuwen First, I have no idea how to upgrade a kernel without a reboot. Not to mention that some modules require a recompile with dkms after a kernel upgrade; second, I have to unload the nvidia module to upgrade it (or at least to reload the new one) my experience shows that upgrading without rebooting soon after may heat in the fan stopping and everything heating to near melting point.
Interesting. FF9 should have a significant JavaScript performance improvement.
 
@AsafKaragila ksplice.com
 
10:45 PM
So this is a super basic question, but I'm going to ask it anyway: I'm working through Rick Miranda's Riemann Surface/Algebraic curves book. Why is the emphasis on projective space and not affine space? Why do algebraic geometers care so much about projective space?
 
@JonasTeuwen Not native for Arch.
 
@Henning Ok, done my part. Thanks for the clarification.
 
@Srivatsan You keep replying to me when other people talk to you...
This is not the first time :-)
 
Good night folks!
 
@AsafKaragila Oh, oops. Sorry.
 
10:52 PM
:-)
This is like 3rd-4th time I believe.
 
Um, that's a little weird. Could you point it out next time when I do this? [I don't quite get why this happens.]
 
I broke the rep cap! I have 217 points today with one accepted answer.
 
I also hit the cap today!
205 points, I can go a bit more. To be accurate, 40 points more.
 
How can you go more than the rep cap?
Yes, you can go more. =)
 
You can go rep cap + accepts, bounties and such.
I had 3 accepts today... so I can hit 40 more points.
 
11:00 PM
Yes, agreed. I just checked your reps for today.
 
Sure, but I currently have 202 points from upvotes and 15 from an accept.
 
@HenningMakholm That is just weird.
 
I had a downvote for some hours which was retracted after it had already qualified another upvote to count partially. I expect it to be rectified at the next rep recalc.
 
I'm not manly enough for this whisky.
 
You should send it to me.
I have the Liver of Doom. It can process almost anything.
 
11:13 PM
Cool. Can you miss 50%?
 
Miss?
I drank 85%
 
Yeah, transplant.
This one is only 58,3%.
 
Oh, that.
I am not really in to organ transplants.
 
@HenningMakholm You know you can trigger a rep recalc of your own, no?
i.e., that gray button at the bottom of this.
 
Yes. But now I'll probably abstain for doing it for some time, to preserve the anomaly.
 
11:18 PM
'Morning J.M.
 
Ah, then that's a reason not to touch. :) I think I lose 10-30 rep per month from deleted users myself...
Good morning, Srivatsan. :)
 
Am I the only one who hates Thanksgiving? =)
 
What's that?
 
We don't have that here.
 
@Sri: You don't like the taste of turkey?
 
11:20 PM
In Hebrew Turkey is called "Indian chicken".
 
Does not look very Indian to me.
 
@JM Am a vegetarian, so I don't know if I like it... =)
 
If "Indian" in the sense of "American Indian", well, somewhat correct...
@Srivatsan Ah, a good reason to pass on turkey. Then yes, there's not much of a point with Thanksgiving...
 
Nope. Indian in the sense of worshiping cows and thousands of gods.
 
Apparently, turkey is called "Hindi" in Turkish. =)
My Turkish friend told me this.
 
11:22 PM
Which is why it is called like that in Hebrew.
 
I get smarter by the minute from reading this channel.
 
@JM I am starving, and thinking of all these restaurant owners and waiters sitting cozily in their homes, eating turkey. =)
 
@JonasTeuwen These days I'm positively crushed if I don't learn something new from this chat...
 
You should stop being a veggie.
 
@AsafKaragila Yes, I fancy that sometimes.
 
11:25 PM
@AsafKaragila It's healthy. Boring, but healthy.
 
But the problem is lack of food, not options. =)
 
@JM What is? Eating meat? I agree.
 
@Srivatsan: you skip milk and eggs too?
@AsafKaragila No, being a vegetarian is healthy but boring.
 
I don't see how this is healthy.
I mean, meat is awesome.
 
(though you need to be scrupulous with some of the vitamins like B12.)
 
11:27 PM
And also iron.
 
@JM Oh, I love milk. No issues with eggs in cakes and cream. Although I am learning to eat more eggs in general.
 
Yes, iron too. The problem with the iron in most plants is that it's bound, so you don't really absorb much.
@Srivatsan I see, so just meat. Some of the vegetarians (vegans) won't even eat gelatin...
 
I have a friend like that.
 
So I was looking for Ahlfors again in preparation for my final, and there's a problem in the very first chapter in the section about stereographic projection that says "find the images of the vertices of a regular tetrahedron inscribed in the sphere (that we are projecting from) under stereographic projection." (Problem 3, page 20 in the 3rd ed.). What is the purpose of this problem? I think you just get a really messy, unenlightening answer.
 
@Potato I've seen that. Not sure about the point either. But at least you got practice with the projection...
 
11:31 PM
@J.M. Ok. I was wondering if there was something slick I was missing. But it really is just a stupid problem.
 
Not too hard though, no?
 
It can be made simpler by choosing the right orientation of the tetrahedron. Inscribe a cube in the sphere such that the phases are parallel to the axes. Take every second vertex of the cube to be vertices of the tetrahedron.
 
Ah, yes, the "tetrahedron in a cube" bit. :)
 
But the problem states we must do it for a tetrahedron in any position, I believe.
 
@Potato It's somewhat easier to visualize a rotated cube, though. But I agree that the general position makes things unduly messy...
 
11:34 PM
Hmm. I wonder whether there's anything better to do then than to compose the projection formula with rotation formulas for the tetrahedron, and call that a day.
 
That's what I was thinking, @Henning.
 
A propos of which, I'm going to call this a day now. Se y'all.
 
Bye Henning.
 
Goodnight.
 
In other news, I am one problem away from completing my complex analysis problem set, but there is one problem that still resists me. It's going to occupy me during my Thanksgiving dinner :(
 
11:39 PM
Really? Unless that problem is so hard and so important, why don't you go ahead and enjoy the Thanksgiving dinner? =)
 
...I was about to suggest to do it after dinner, but then I remembered turkey makes you sleepy in general...
 
Good night guys.
 
Good night Jonas.
 
Bye @Jonas.
 
Thanks!
 
11:41 PM
(Be sparing with the whiskey!)
 
I will leave too. I will meet you all later after finding some food (in case I return to my office).
Good night, all.
 
Good night!
 
Goodnight, Hindu god of C.S.
 
I suppose that makes you the Jewish guy of AC?
 
I am not really Jewish.
 
11:47 PM
I think my biggest problem in studying math is that I give up too early. I am trying very hard to fix this.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot that you said that your folks were from Iraq, no?
@Potato Keep trying. If an approach doesn't pan out, all you've spent is paper and time... ;)
 
The satisfaction one gets from looking at a problem for 2+ hours and then finally solving it is pretty great though, I must say.
Even if it's just that you finally see something simple, like a partial fraction decomposition or easy bound you were missing.
 
Yeah, you eventually learn to look for the rush from "whew, I think that one wrapped up nicely!"
@Potato For me, if it's an "obvious" thing I missed, I get mixed emotions. But still mostly joy.
 
@J.M. I figure I'd rather catch the "obvious" thing after 2 hours then not catch the "obvious" trick after two hours and feel dumb when someone shows me the solution.
I'm hoping this change in my work habits is going to have a positive long term impact on my mathematics.
 
That's another thing you'll want to address. You can and will make dumb mistakes from time to time. You have to be upfront, and be careful not to repeat those mistakes though.
 
11:54 PM
@J.M. What exactly do you mean?
 
i.e. "Watch out for mistakes, but don't be afraid of making mistakes."
The "feeling dumb" emotion does take a while to overcome, I agree.
 
@J.M. I see. I make dumb mistakes regularly, so I have grown accustomed to them. There is no fear anymore :)
 
Again, it's okay to be wrong sometimes. Just don't be wrong the same way again and again.
 
Oh for the love of god. I have to wake up in about five hours.
 
Eventually, you should get to the point where the frequency of making dumb mistakes is less.
 
11:56 PM
Then drive with my advisor all the way to Jerusalem and attend a seminar about set theory.
 
@AsafKaragila ...and why aren't you in a horizontal position, now?
 
@J.M. I eagerly await that point. I think right now it's just a matter of I don't have a lot of experience with the material.
 
Not very tired?
 

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