« first day (2511 days earlier)      last day (2521 days later) » 
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 17:0017:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

Avery
Avery
9:00 PM
You can never have enough mod abuse
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@murgatroid99 ಠ_ಠ
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@GodEmperorDune That's an emoticon. Those are different
Seriously, though, many emoji just render as rectangles and it makes it harder to follow what people are saying
 
Gallifreyan
Gallifreyan
@Yuuki I was too lazy to write a nomination, but Watchmen and American Gods came to mind as viable options (though they're a bit on the adult side, but eh).
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
◻️◻️◻️◻️◻️
(the joke here is those are actually rectangles)
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
I can tell they're different because they're squares
 
Avery
Avery
9:06 PM
@murgatroid99 I only remember 1f914 and that's thinking
I only ever use that.
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Gallifreyan i thought american gods was a series, not a single film
 
Gallifreyan
Gallifreyan
@GodEmperorDune Yes - is it not eligible for the night?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
> Harry Potter
See Big Trouble in Little China, but set it in a nostalgic version of Britain and everyone's a teenager.
 
Gallifreyan
Gallifreyan
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World is also great, but I think you've already had that... or not?
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Avery That's not really the point. Even if it's something simple like that, I don't want to have to remember that rectangles written by Avery are actually thinking face emoji
 
Avery
Avery
9:08 PM
yeah, I get your point
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Gallifreyan we do repeat showings of a movie instead
16
Q: So You Want to Attend Movie Night

YuukiGiven that we're a few Movie Nights in (to the point where I've stopped numbering them), I think it's time we nail some things down. Do not talk to me about Fight Club: Seriously, I've heard it all. Movie Night will always take place on a weekend: This is only something that came up for the las...

discussion community community-event
 
Avery
Avery
Ⓦⓘⓛⓛ ⓑⓔ ⓜⓞⓡⓔ ⓒⓐⓡⓔⓕⓤⓛ
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
@murgatroid99 curses
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Avery u wot m8
 
Avery
Avery
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
9:10 PM
is there an emoticon for thinking face?
 
Gallifreyan
Gallifreyan
@GodEmperorDune Ah, well.
 
Avery
Avery
@GodEmperorDune 1f914, yes
and now I'm admin
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Avery thats the emoji, not emoticon
i propose this as the new thinking face (⊙.☉)7
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
adjusts monocle Wait what?
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
15 mins ago, by murgatroid99
I propose that we don't use text emoji in chat, because I can't see them
 
Avery
Avery
9:14 PM
¯\_(⊙⊙)???
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@GodEmperorDune That looks kind of like a saluting surprised person
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@GodEmperorDune No I know I was just making fun of your choice
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
i think thinkingface.gif is also a drop in replacement
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@murgatroid99 Looks more [10] than surprised.
 
Avery
Avery
???(-_-)???
this is closer
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
9:17 PM
@Yuuki I don't know. I would associate wide eyes more with strong hallucinogens than with weed
 
Avery
Avery
(I'm trying to achieve a confused nick look)
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
So... [15]?
 
DanmakuGrazer
DanmakuGrazer
How about this?
Wow, it's not gonna show
Lame
 
Avery
Avery
put ! before it
 
DanmakuGrazer
DanmakuGrazer
Theeeere we go
 
Avery
Avery
9:19 PM
what about this?
slightly less yellow and slightly more retro
 
DanmakuGrazer
DanmakuGrazer
Nah
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
That kind of looks high to me
 
Avery
Avery
yeah it is
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
wut
muh screen
 
Avery
Avery
messed with it a lot on stream a couple days ago
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
9:20 PM
too much yellah
 
Avery
Avery
@GodEmperorDune your screen are now belong to ave
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
rekt
time to hide in a c.ave.zone
 
Avery
Avery
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
There are still no bad dogs, just bad sculptors https://twitter.com/redtraccoon/status/869535537408954368
Tweeted by dog_rates on May 30, 2017 at 9:18 PM
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Unionhawk savage
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
9:43 PM
> regardless of what he says
What is he saying?
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
He said it's feminism but everyone else just doesn't get it
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
Idk something about how fearless girl is a personal attack against the bull or something
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
(insert thinkingface.gif)
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
My other question is why is he posing for photos next to it.
This seems like Controversy Publicity 101.
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
Because he's an idiot, probably
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
9:53 PM
@Unionhawk wat
@Unionhawk The fearless girl was a weird marketing thing that stole the thunder of the bull tbh.
 
Avery
Avery
send help
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
I don't know if a dog stealing the girl's thunder is any better though
 
Avery
Avery
avebot turned into a stocks bot
every >contact prayergoeshere = 1 prayer
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@TimStone 🤔
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@GodEmperorDune For a website called "willrobotstakemyjob", I'm surprised they don't have an answer to this one.
Vampire is after all the most stake-able job, I would say.
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
10:05 PM
@Yuuki try robot
 
Kevin van der Velden
Kevin van der Velden
@Dragonrage nothing special
 
Avery
Avery
ooh
stockstream is going on wsj
in other news
someone got opped
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@KevinvanderVelden so, robots wont take my job if im a robot?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
That's from one of the websites my company manages.
Those are all network ads, save for the top and bottom one
 
Frank
Frank
@Wipqozn That's a shitton of ads.
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
10:15 PM
aka evey host gator one is just network
 
Frank
Frank
I'd block the fuck out of that site instantly.
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
@Wipqozn That's a heck of a site name
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Wipqozn why is the site called the casket if it doesn't have to do with dead people?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
The new head of sales wanted to add those in. Basically, she wanted to add in 5 new units which are sold to clients. Those units are sold to clients for an entire month, and then only their ad is only served. THis is meant to be a trial of the functionality. They added in 10 units so they have flexibility in where each ad servers.
IT's never supposed to serve network adsa
 
Lazers 2.0
Lazers 2.0
0
Q: What does the Unstoppable perk do?

Fr33danI have a multiverse fight for which my opponent has the "Unstoppable" perk which seems to give them a purple aura. What does this do? PS I've put this in the Injustice:Gods Among Us tag even though my question is about Injustice 2 as I do not have privileges to create a tag on this particular st...

injustice-gods-among-us
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:18 PM
host gator must be pleased to have their ads so frequently
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
What this new head of sales doesn't realize, though, is that our AdOps department just makes it so an ad always servers, in every spot. Because hey, why not!
THe why not of course being...
2 mins ago, by Frank
I'd block the fuck out of that site instantly.
That page showed up during a meeting. It derailed the meeting for 20 minutes, since the webdev + non-webdev there was like "This is fucking terrible. THis is what's killing our company."
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
well yes
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
The nonwebdev is "this is why I left adops. They just book ads to every placement, adn don't care about user experience at all"
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
when your page has more ads than real content you are doing it wrong
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
and then she left the meeting and wrote a fairly length and heated email to the new head of sales explaining why that's terrible
and, apparantly, saying this shit needs to stop
 
Frank
Frank
10:21 PM
@Wipqozn Well, either it stops, or the company folds. So she's looking out for the best interests of the company.
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
@Wipqozn that site needs a newer box model
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@RedRiderX The sites really old.IT's built on Wordpress 3.
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
Grody.
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
I don't think our team even built it. I think we bought the company years ago, and the site came with it.
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
And insecure
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
10:22 PM
We're doing ahuge rebuild of these 35 sites we bought, and we're going to roll The Casket into those sites
those sites are being built in django
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
i'll still make fun of you for php though
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@RedRiderX we can't even upgrade it, because it's hosted on...actually hostgator I think! (cc @GodEmperorDune), and we don't have direct access to the database
so we can't perform a dump
or backup, to create a dev site
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@Wipqozn Wait, this isn't an external site right? Right? |:
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
(oh btw it lacks a dev site, so all work happens on the site itself)
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
@Wipqozn I didn't want to ask but it felt like that would be why you are getting bad remarketing.
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
10:23 PM
@TimStone It's not hosted on any of the servers we own, if that's what you're asking. And it wasn't built by us either, I think. We bought the company before I started working here, adn the site came with it, from what I understand.
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
@Wipqozn The only way is the cowboy way.
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
just nuke it, dot it, then help the whelp groups
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@Wipqozn Yeah, but will you get blamed if it gets hacked to pieces?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
anyways, because the site is so outdated, and we don't have a dev site, we're not comfortable just upgrading it since we're afraid of shit breaking.
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Wipqozn if i was in charge of acquisitions, i wouldn't buy a company with such a shitty site
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
10:25 PM
And since we dind't build the site, we're not even sure if someone was like "herp derp let's modify wordpress core"
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
just kill the site
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@GodEmperorDune When PHP's your stack your differentiating factors are limited :P
BURN IT ALL DOWN
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
replace it with a 90s underconstruction.gif
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@TimStone Possibly, but my boss would deal with the fallout. IT'll be on Django SOON ENOUGH hopefully.
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
Ah, good, good
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
10:27 PM
@TimStone yeah I'm so happy we're going Django. We wer going Drupal 8, but I saw an opening, and was like "We should go django"
whole team "that actually sounds good.. let's investigate"
now: "Python/Django is so great! Why did we ever program in PHP/Drupal/Wordpress?!?!?"
"omg you can do that in Python1?!?! THAT'S AWESOME"
I'm basically on Cloud 9
MY TEAM HAS SEEN THE LIGHT
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
so if the python/django thing ever goes south, your company will literally "blame @Wipqozn"
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@Wipqozn also cc @fredley
@GodEmperorDune I'm fine with this
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@Wipqozn Oh so you've fully embraced the cloud then
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@TimStone fancy
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
/cc @Yuuki
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:29 PM
> create a full php workspace instantly
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Wipqozn They aren't doing so well in NALCS.
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
user image
4
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
I'm going to take this opportunity to blame @Wipqozn for Java still not having properties
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
My boss is even trying to get us back into a dev room, instead of just being on the sales floor, and the COO (second in command) is like "Sure, sounds good", so strong chance of it happening
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@TimStone just blame @Wipqozn for everything wrong with every language
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:31 PM
@TimStone java loves .properties
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@GodEmperorDune Get out you monster
@Dragonrage Acceptable
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
And there is a growing number of people starting to realize that "MORE ADS" is a terrible idea, and are willing to speak up about it, SO WHO KNOWS
My job might finally be getting a lot better.
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@Wipqozn Ew, you're on the sales floor? Amid all the calls?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
Like I never hated my job, since PHP isn't as miserable to develop in as you guys think, but maaaaaan
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Wipqozn ಠ_ಠ
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:32 PM
I've seen the inside of the PHP compiler, there's no going back from that man
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
this is like fantastic improvement. I've basically been playing the waiting game at this company for a while, since I was like "there's a fuckton of potential here for a great long term job"
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
actually its the debugging that sucks
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
and looks like my waiting paid off
@GodEmperorDune There's a lot of things that suck, really, but not enough that I hate working in it.
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@ash this is your random kol reminder
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
Honestly the one thing I truly, truly hate about PHP is that you can't do this: function dogs(param1='yolo', param2='solo')

dogs(param2='nope')
that "param2=" does nothing. It just passes nope into param1
 
user15026
10:33 PM
@GodEmperorDune aww thank you
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
WHY CAN'T I DO THIS
EVERY OTHER LANGUAGE LETS YOU DO THIS PHP
 
user15026
@Wipqozn I'm glad things seem to be improving! :)
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
WHY ARE YOU SO BAD AT EXISTING PHP
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@Wipqozn kindly add this to the top of all your php programs.
<?php fclose(STDIN); fclose(STDOUT); fclose(STDERR);
fopen('/dev/null','r'); fopen('/dev/null','w'); fopen('/dev/null','w');
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@Wipqozn you can't do it in brainfuck
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
10:35 PM
@Wipqozn Yeah I end up using an associative array as the single param for a lot of functions
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@RedRiderX The fact you need to do that to get basic language functionality is so stupid
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
I have done a thing
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
I've never understood why PHP doesn't allow that
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
public interface All<T extends Filterable<T> & Limitable<T> & Pagable<T> & Sortable<T>> extends
    Filterable<T>,
    Limitable<T>,
    Pagable<T>,
    Sortable<T> {}
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@TimStone hue
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:36 PM
abuses all the interfaces
 
Avery
Avery
@Dragonrage I get r
but why w
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Wipqozn Most languages don't do that, as far as I know. I think it's mainly Python and Ruby
@Avery because STDOUT and STDERR are streams that you write to
 
Avery
Avery
right
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@Wipqozn, you could just do this. <?php ini_set('memory_limit',1);
 
Avery
Avery
@Dragonrage RIP club penguin
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:38 PM
@Avery is that the "pool's closed" place?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@murgatroid99 C++ does it, doesn't it? It's been a while since I've worked in C/C++, but I'm quite confident I remember that existing.
 
Avery
Avery
No, that's habbo hotel
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
but then again it's been...heck, 4 years now, since I've worked in C/C++. Maybe 5.
 
Avery
Avery
man, pool's closed days...
back when 4chan didn't suck as much as it did today.
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Wipqozn Not that I know of, but I wouldn't claim to have deep knowledge of C++
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:39 PM
@Wipqozn some languages you have to make an exactly matching function signature, so you can do one arg, 2 arg, 3 arg, etc
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
Yeah, I'm fairly certain that C++ doesn't? C# does, Scala too, and some others
 
Avery
Avery
@Wipqozn wtf
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
C++ does function overloading but not named parameters at the call site or default values
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
 import types
def function():
    pass

c = function.__code__
code = types.CodeType(0,
                      c.co_nlocals,
                      c.co_stacksize,
                      c.co_flags,
                      c.co_code,
                      (None,)*len(c.co_consts),
                      (),
                      (),
                      "filename",
                      "funcname",
                      1,
                      "")

func = types.FunctionType(code, {})
func()
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
Although you can implement default values with lots of overloads (but it's tedious and awful)
(Boost probably has a really hairy macro for this)
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
10:41 PM
@Dragonrage You want "fixed font", not a quote
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@murgatroid99 @TimStone oh huh, looks like you're right.
Okay then. PHP, I forgive you for this one transgression.
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
It's my job sunglasses
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
but then it's got all those other issues still, but yeah
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@Wipqozn to be fair
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@murgatroid99 thanks, i forgot about that
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:42 PM
@Wipqozn PHP doesn't allow you to use methods in class member declarations so there's still that to headscratch over
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
Most languages forbid that completely, or permit it and it works
PHP is in the as far as I know unique situation of accepting named parameters at the call site as valid at both parse and runtime but then passing them as positional parameters anyways
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
Actually one example I used to my team on why Python > PHP is "Is in_array(needle, haystack) or in_array(haystack, needle)? What's that? You don't know because there's no bloody consistency with function param ordering in PHP? WELL PYTHON IS"
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
To be fair, in C++ you can write foo(bar=1), it just don't do what you expect.
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
Other languages may outright lack this feature, but PHP gets it uniquely wrong
 
Avery
Avery
To move to a new account or to not move to a new account on twitch :thinking:
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
10:43 PM
@badp try using $>=$< in ruby
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@murgatroid99 only if bar is in scope and type compatible with 1, though
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
It will set bar = 1, then call foo(1). So PHP's behavior is actually consistent with other languages
@ToxicFrog In PHP, every name is in scope and type compatible
 
badp
badp
@Dragonrage but do I wanna
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@murgatroid99 does it actually have those semantics in PHP?
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@ToxicFrog I'm pretty sure variable = expression is itself an expression, so probably
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
10:44 PM
Like, it's been years since I used PHP so I don't remember, but it's so perplexingly awful in so many other ways that it wouldn't surprise me if it doesn't match python or C here
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
WHY ARE THESE DIFFERENT
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
@badp idk, im not entirely sure of the consequences of that as i havent really ever used ruby
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
jeez @Wipqozn why are you spamming nsfw links?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
Maybe there's a reason, but I bet I hate it.
 
badp
badp
well that is $> or $<
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
10:45 PM
@Wipqozn there is a reason and it's super dumb
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
@Wipqozn lol
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@GodEmperorDune moD ABUSE
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
Which is that in_array is a function written for PHP, while strpos is a very thin wrapper around libc's strpos(3) function
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Wipqozn which difference are you talking about? The different naming convention or the different argument order?
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
God damnit
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:45 PM
@murgatroid99 The differing order bit me more than once
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
And at no point did anyone go "hey, maybe we should not just mechanically translate libc into PHP" or "hey, maybe we should look at existing functions and see what they use and try to follow that convention"
 
badp
badp
@Wipqozn why do you think they shouldn't be different?
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@murgatroid99 Differing argument order, but hey, we can complain about naming convention too if you want
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
Don't forget the fact that strpos can return FALSE on failure and 0 on success, and FALSE == 0
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
why isn't it needle in haystack?
 
badp
badp
10:46 PM
oh you mean in terms of argument order
because everything is terrible
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
@murgatroid99 The DailyWTF the other day was PHP and I forgot this for a second and wondered how the code was supposed to work at all
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
PHP has an awful lot of functions that are just the thinnest possible wrapper around C that won't segfault all the time
And then this is mixed with things that they looted from perl, or from lisp, or from the fevered imaginations of the developers
And there's no consistency between any of them
In argument ordering, function naming, whatever
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
This is your reminder that PHP: A Fractal of Bad Design is a beautiful description of many of the problems we are talking about here
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@murgatroid99 basically php is terrible all the way down
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
There's also phpsadness.com that takes a more categorized but less entertaining approach
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
10:49 PM
@GodEmperorDune exactly
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
I'm very sad that the Abandon Matlab blog went away, Matlab really is the PHP of scientific/mathematical computing
 
Unionhawk
Unionhawk
PHP is against my religion though
 
badp
badp
reminder that
Slack uses PHP
on the backend
 
Avery
Avery
USE
DISCORD
or rocketchat
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
> Do not tell me that “good developers can write good code in any language”, or bad developers blah blah. That doesn’t mean anything. A good carpenter can drive in a nail with either a rock or a hammer, but how many carpenters do you see bashing stuff with rocks? Part of what makes a good developer is the ability to choose the tools that work best.
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:50 PM
@badp Wait really?
 
badp
badp
because deploying a new function
means just copying the file over
 
Avery
Avery
or xmpp/irc
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@GnomeSlice I am, but I wasn't planning on buying it anytime soon. Too many other games.
 
badp
badp
and this is good because php will recompile the program every single time
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@Yuuki Yes
 
badp
badp
10:50 PM
so your change is live instantly
and that somehow is good
because it's "continuous integration"
and you can do
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
that is not what continuous integration means jesus christ
 
badp
badp
parallel programming
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
hue
 
badp
badp
by making several GET requests to localhost asynchronously
and all of this is true
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
actually the recompile on file change is a standard thing in web stuff
 
badp
badp
10:52 PM
Perl doesn't do it for free
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
I refuse to believe any of this
 
badp
badp
though Mason will do it
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
asp and coldfusion do it
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
This sounds like a cruel joke we're using to make fun of @Wipqozn
 
badp
badp
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
10:52 PM
It's easy to turn it on in python, clojure can do it if you want
 
Avery
Avery
bridge, help me pick a twitch name. Tempted to with aveao but that might be hard to remember
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
though coldfusion is perhaps a close second to shittiest language behind php
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
Of course, all of this raises the question of why recompiling your stuff on the server that also hosts your service is a good idea
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
@ToxicFrog speed of local dev
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
In re matlab, two of the wonderful things I remember from the blog
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
10:53 PM
@badp This is so crazy >_>
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@murgatroid99 yeah that's annoying. Just return -1, which is pretty standard across languages in my experience.
 
badp
badp
@murgatroid99 this was not meant as a success story
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
facebook is written in php
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
(1) getframe() works by, effectively, taking a screenshot, so if you want to have a long-running program that plots (say) an x,y,z,time series and screenshots each time, you need to turn off the screensaver before you walk away from the computer for twelve hours
 
RedRiderX
RedRiderX
@GodEmperorDune And Hack, now.
Has anyone here tried Hack?
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
10:54 PM
> Do not tell me that Facebook and Wikipedia are built in PHP. I’m aware! They could also be written in Brainfuck, but as long as there are smart enough people wrangling the things, they can overcome problems with the platform. For all we know, development time could be halved or doubled if these products were written in some other language; this data point alone means nothing.
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
(2) the garbage collector is recursive, so if you create a 200 element linked list and then let the list head go out of scope, Matlab crashes with a stack overflow
 
badp
badp
indeed a lot of people spent a lot of time abstracting the PHP internals away
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
They "fixed" the former by updating the documentation for getframe() to tell you to turn off your screensaver
And the latter by doubling the amount of space it allocated for the GC stack
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Wipqozn And this is the fundamental problem with PHP. It's a hodgepodge of stuff from a variety of languages, and they change stuff that makes it worse for no good reason because they have no idea what they're doing
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@GodEmperorDune speed of local dev is a garbage argument, though, I get instantaneous automatic reloads when working in python, clojure, lua, all of which are much better arguments
*languages
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:56 PM
@ToxicFrog not to business people
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@GodEmperorDune the business people aren't the people writing the fucking code, though!
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
speed to get from idea to prototype to market is a very real thing
and rewriting things for the sake of "this other toolset is superior" doesn't pay the bills
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@murgatroid99 to be fair, we'd probably have fewer complaints about PHP (and it would have fewer warts) if it were still used as a low barrier to entry template processor rather than as a Complete Web Technology
Same issue as XML, just worse
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
the technical debt argument is real but difficult to make if your company doesn't have that mindset
and if they had the mindset, you probably wouldn't have that much technical debt in the first place
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
@GodEmperorDune my point is that choosing PHP in the first place is a bad move, because you can get equivalent prototyping speed from a bunch of other languages without accruing massive technical debt
 
GodEmperorDune
GodEmperorDune
10:58 PM
@ToxicFrog yes i agree
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
So the only reason to choose it is if either (a) you have a bunch of PHP programmers already who can't/won't work with anything else
Or (b) you have non-technical people making these decisions because "I remember seeing a bunch of URLs ending with php when browsing porn" and then specifically hiring PHP people to implement it
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@ToxicFrog Still, it's not even a very good template processor. The fact that you have to stuff all of your business logic into your page template isn't a positive
 
Wipqozn
Wipqozn
@murgatroid99 I think that's the core of the issue, really. All languages have problems, but PHP just has so many little inconsistences and little oddities that you wind up wasting more time double checking that function call or going "why the fuck is it doing that" then you would in most other languages.
 
Dragonrage
Dragonrage
user image
2
 
Tim Stone
Tim Stone
I still can't get over the fact that namespaces in PHP are namespace Top\Next\Sub;
 
ToxicFrog
ToxicFrog
10:59 PM
@murgatroid99 no, it's not, but if that's all it were used for -- if it really were just a Personal Home Page generator and nothing more, and people didn't try to do more with it -- it would be more defensible
 
murgatroid99
murgatroid99
@Wipqozn And this is a big part of the thesis of fractal of bad design
 
00:00 - 13:0013:00 - 17:0017:00 - 21:0021:00 - 23:0023:00 - 00:00

« first day (2511 days earlier)      last day (2521 days later) »