The Bridge - 2013-04-09 (page 9 of 11)

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Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

5:00 PM

@OrigamiRobot "You should totally smoke more! Who cares about lung cancer?"

@YiJiang'sEvilClone That's not a bad habit I actually have.

@OrigamiRob You should hoard more games, electronics, and peripherals that you never actually use

@Sconibulus ಠ_ಠ

I WILL ACCEPT ANY PIECE OF FREE ELECTRONICS

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Smoking will cut 10 years off your life, but it is the last 10 years anyway where you are old, senile and in a wheelchair, so who cares

@Blem The other people who get cancer from second hand smoke.

5:04 PM

@Blem Yeah, but it tends not to be the last 10 years it cuts

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Blem Hmm, I don't really buy that argument. Then again I'm asthmatic, so I avoid any sort of smoke like the plague

Just for the record, I don't smoke and I find it a major turnoff when girls do it

Truth.

5:21 PM

0

Q: What is the maximum number of clones that can be saved?

I just finished BadLand with the score of 223 clones saved. I really want to know how much could I push it to the limits of this game. In other words, what is the maximum number of clones that I can save?

Is there a shortcut to get from normal Arqade from the meta?

I mean, is there a shortcut to get to normal Arqade from the meta from the meta?

There's a 'main' button along the top-right

I do not see it.

Oh, now I do.

user image

Thanks, lol. That was fast.

5:26 PM

My freehand circle skills are legendary.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno Not yet LEGENDARY+5 though

30min to go on Humblebundle, hope the next one comes out fast again.

I am in conflict with OrigamiRobot (and the search system). The log of the argument starts from OrigamiRobot's post here: gaming.stackexchange.com/questions/112658/… . Should I wait until I've garnered enough reputation to create the tags that I have in mind?

I recommend Bacon.

5:32 PM

That's more like Psychonauts.

@NiteCyper ng+ is not a good tag

@kalina I understand, it's not specific enough. That's not a tag that I'd plan to add anymore. I do plan to add something more specific, like "Dead-Island-NG+", though.

@NiteCyper that's even worse

thats not good either

ng+?

5:35 PM

new game +

If you think "Dead-Island-NG+" is bad as a tag, you should convince me by addressing the conflict that I linked to. The main problem is that my question cannot be found by searched terms that I consider would be normal to find my question with.

Does new game plus really need a tag?

@Powerlord It is directly related to the content of my question.

@NiteCyper Dead-Island-NG+ is a terrible tag. You're right, there's a problem there that you can't find your question, but that is not the solution

I don't need to convince you, everybody else will do that for me

5:36 PM

I see what you mean by not being able to find it, though

@SaintWacko All right, so what do you believe the proper solution to be?

@NiteCyper tag it with the game name, put "new game+" in the question title

If you need a nonsensical tag to make your question show up in the search, your question is bad.

@kalina That has been done.

@NiteCyper True, but unlike most StackExchange sites, most categories other than the game or its series are too narrow for other tags to be useful.

5:37 PM

@NiteCyper I'm not sure, it does look like there's something off with the search function

tagging it with 'new-game-plus' has an identical effect to putting 'new game+' in the title

@FEichinger I don't believe the suggested tag to be nonsensical, nor do I believe your conclusion.

@kalina You'd think so, but a search for "New Game+" doesn't find the question in... er... question

NG+ is a meta tag (as in isn't a platform or game tag), which we don't like unless it adds significant value to a question

@SaintWacko stack exchange's search function is poor, use google

5:38 PM

@MBraedley That's not what a meta tag is.

@NiteCyper dead-island-ng+ is as useful as call-of-duty-prestige-7. Not useful at all.

@RonanForman It's close enough of a definition

@kalina Ah, yeah, there it is

google.co.uk/… - your question is already on the first page

@FEichinger Well, I wouldn't know. I'm guessing there aren't particular artifacts of interest at the prestige level of 7. Yet, I believe the new game plus of Dead Island, in comparison to that assumption, to be more important.

5:39 PM

@NiteCyper A google search for "site:gaming.stackexchange.com dead island new game+" returns your question as the first result, and on the first page without the site specifier

not to mention once it gets an answer it will likely be the top result without the site identifier

@NiteCyper You are trying to give something a tag that is a minor part of a game.

new-game-plus is a better tag than dead-island-ng+, but it's still a bad tag

ng-double-plus-good?

lol

5:43 PM

we should just retag everything at random as cake and bacon

5

@kalina Starred for bacon

@Powerlord but cake > bacon

gaming.stackexchange.com/search?q=[dead-island]+new+game%2B

@kalina NO! I refuse to believe that!

That StackExchange search query works for me. Don't see the problem at all.

5:44 PM

And just because you said that, I'm going to get a Baconator after work.

@Powerlord CAKE IS GREATER THAN BACON!

When my coworker got up for a smoke break, she said this to me:

@NiteCyper Everyone is in conflict with the search system.

> chocolate bacon banana

to which I replied

> ice cream

@OrigamiRobot The search is just a little wonky with punctuation and stuff like that.

5:45 PM

you two sound perfect for each other

@FEichinger Try to find my question by searching for "Dead Island new game plus", "Dead Island new game+", and/or "Dead Island new game +".

@Powerlord Your employers health care costs must be off the charts

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@NiteCyper Be careful with that plus sign. Google might think it's a search parameter

gaming.stackexchange.com/search?q=[dead-island]+new+game%2B

@NiteCyper Your question does not contain "Dead Island", how do you expect it to show up? As for the plus sign, as I said, the search is wonky with punctuation.

5:47 PM

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Good point, but I'm referring to the Arqade search engine.

@FEichinger It did originally contain "Dead Island" in the title, but someone edited it to remove that.

@NiteCyper It's not meant to be in the title, that's what you have the tag for. It's meant to be in the body.

Again: Searching with the game's tag makes it show up instantly.

wat...

linking strips out the tag

Yes, I now understand that one must learn the esoteric language of the Arqade search engine before being able to use the Arqade website to help find answers for themself casually.

It's also not the Arqade search engine, it's StackExchange's search engine.

@NiteCyper You can narrow down by searching for the tag instead of the terms in the tag.

5:50 PM

On that note, however, there is one thing that could be improved here: Turning search parameters into tags for the query automatically.

I blame user error

it's all @OrigamiRobot's fault

blame @OrigamiRob

bah it doesn't work on edits

When searching for "dead island", it should consider the "[dead-island]" tag as well.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@FEichinger It does this for the top 40 tags on the site

@FEichinger But how would it decide where to delimit tags?

when eating cake, we should always consider how moist and delicious it is

5:51 PM

I can't figure out how to make the "exact" search option work

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Unfortunately Arqade has a long tail of games. I suspect this might be a little computationally intensive too

@SaintWacko It wouldn't have to. It would just have to look for tag matches in the pattern.

Now I'm considering putting pseudo-tags in the body of the question.

@kalina Look at me still talking when there's science to do.

@Sterno That's partially broken, I believe.

5:52 PM

@Powerlord science!

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@SaintWacko Use quotes around the word to force the engine to search for the word instead of the tag

@FEichinger For every tag? That would be... painful

I wonder how many people got that reference

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Eh?

@SaintWacko I wouldn't say for every, but perhaps for a new category of forced insta-search tags?

5:52 PM

maybe we should just consider that StackExchange's search function is not as good as Google's

3

@Powerlord 42

@Powerlord This is a gaming site... probably everyone

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@SaintWacko Talking about the current implementation

8 mins ago, by OrigamiRobot

@NiteCyper Everyone is in conflict with the search system.

@FEichinger Who determines which tags go into that category?

5:53 PM

Would make for a nice feature-request on MSO, if anyone wants to get their rep killed over there. :P

@OrigamiRobot yes but I got starred multiple times, thus me > you

@SaintWacko I'd hope so, but there's an ever so slight chance that someone hasn't played portal

I haven't played Portal 2 yet

@kalina You always get all the stars.

@kalina Drop everything and go play it now.

5:53 PM

and Tomb Raider is still open + paused from lastnight

I haven't played Portal... I feel shame about it

but everyone gets the reference anyway

@Sconibulus Next time it's on sale, you should get it.

@Powerlord I DON'T WANNA

I actually own Portal 2 and have it installed

@kalina DO IT

Portal + Portal 2 seems to go on sale on a regular basis.

5:54 PM

but I also own Bioshock Infinite and have that installed

@SaintWacko I'm throwing this out in the open. It would perhaps be helpful, but in general it's still a case of "Question is bad if it doesn't show up on its own"

it means nothing.

why not just replace the stackexchange search with a google custom search

resolve all of these problems instantly

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@SaintWacko Too computationally intensive probably, to do string matching over the thousands of game tags we have for every set of search term

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Exactly

@kalina Except for the fact that Google custom search is a pain in the arse.

5:55 PM

@OrigamiRobot How do you quote?

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@kalina There's a set of advanced search queries which Google doesn't have

@NiteCyper just paste the URL of the original message.

@YiJiang'sEvilClone doesn't matter how advanced the queries are if they don't show all of the results

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Tag search is the most obvious, but there's a bunch of others

19 mins ago, by NiteCyper

@FEichinger I don't believe the suggested tag to be nonsensical, nor do I believe your conclusion.

5:56 PM

@NiteCyper on a line by itself

@OrigamiRobot Which you can get by clicking the down arrow button, then right-clicking Permalink and choosing the option to copy the link location

@NiteCyper remove 'Reiteration: '

@kalina Shift+Enter. It no work.

@NiteCyper A well-written question with all necessary information in its body will show up in any sane search query.

The only thing something can contain for one-boxing to work is a reply (i.e. :12345)

5:57 PM

And as for why the tag is nonsensical, I don't think I need to repeat that.

THIS IS MADNESS

@OrigamiRob

@kalina ಠ_ಠ

5 mins ago, by NiteCyper

Now I'm considering putting pseudo-tags in the body of the question.

sudo @OrigamiRob dance

@kalina ಠ_ಠ

5:58 PM

booo

You lose

sudo @OrigamiRobot dance

@kalina YES SIR

I never lose.

I need to integrate my targeted staring script.

5:58 PM

@NiteCyper Which is, again, wrong. You're meant to supply all information in the body of the question. The body of the question should tell a user everything. The title and tags should not be necessary to understand what you're asking.

This:

> Acceptable: In particular, I want to know how prices are affected. Someone asserted that diamonds sell for more ($1.65K) rather than $1.5K because of how many times that they've beaten the game. \n I am otherwise familiar with the end-game.

@FEichinger I don't agree with him that we need another tag on that thing, but if you try searching for "dead island new game" instead of "[dead-island] new game", you definitely don't find it

And I don't think that's a failing of the question.

Wait, you're not supposed to need the tag to understand what's being asked?

@OrigamiRobot doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doodee doooooooooooo

Isn't even remotely a complete question.

I think I frequently omit the name of the game from my questions...

5:59 PM

@FEichinger All right. I had previously operated on the idea that it was meant to be in the title and could not shift my schema (psychology) to that idea.

@Sconibulus tag name appears in page title

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno The engine can consider the tag text as part of the text searched

0

Q: FInding the first dragon in skyrim?

I have already talked to the jarl in whiterun. he has said everything he can. i have already gone to that tower and i still have no sign of the dragon or anything besides bandits for that matter. HOW DO I FIND THAT DRAGON

skyrim xbox-360

@Sterno The question he asked is not complete by its body alone. That qualifies it as a bad question. No wonder it doesn't show up.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Even if a tag search is not explicitly asked for. That might be problematic in some situations though

6:01 PM

I don't see a terribly compelling argument why search should ignore a question title.

@FEichinger I am open to self-improvement. Please explain why you don't believe it complete, other than the lack of mentioning the name of the game in the content body, as I had come to learn that Arqade operated on it being sufficient that the name of the game simply be in the tags.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno It... doesn't?

New Humble Weekly sale

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Then I'm totally missing why it doesn't show up when I search "dead island new game", or what @FEichinger's point is about the problem being that some of the words aren't in the question body.

@NiteCyper As I said: The question body in itself should tell the person trying to answer it everything they need to know. They should not need to look at the title and tags. The title and tags are meant for determining whether or not to check out the question, but that's it.

6:02 PM

@FEichinger I'm pretty sure that is entirely contrary to how we tell people to write questions

2

@FEichinger Yeah. Most people never mention the game name in the question body.

See the top voted question on the site:

203

Q: How can I tell if a corpse is safe to eat?

I am playing a human wizard, and I just killed a monster, leaving a corpse on the ground. How do I tell whether it is safe to eat this corpse? I leave the monster unspecified because I am interested in "how can I figure out whether this is edible," rather than whether any particular monster is e...

Or the next one:

152

Q: Is Angry Birds deterministic?

While trying to get 3 stars on the more complex levels (the ones with a lot of destructible entities) I noticed that even after playing the same level over 50 times, doing always the same thing, I've never seen the same final result. Something always goes differently. Does the same input always ...

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno The tags are automatically prepended to the title of the question, but that's not what the search engine sees. The search engine doesn't consider the tags when you search, unless you tell it explicitly to

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Ah, I got you now. It doesn't show up in search because the words "dead island" never show up outside the tag. Gotcha

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Yup. So if you can make the search engine consider tags as, say, part of the title, then this would work

*cough* feature-request *cough*

6:06 PM

And thus, creating dead-island-ng+ or even tagging with dead-island new-game-plus wouldn't resolve this issue, as it still wouldn't show up if you search for "dead island new game"

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno Yup. The conversation is pretty much derailed from what it was originally about

That's why I love The Bridge.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

So opinions on the games in the new Humble Bundle weekly?

Has anyone even played those games before?

what games (I can't get there from work)

@YiJiang'sEvilClone It's still very much on-topic. The question doesn't show up, because the terms "dead island new game plus" don't lead to it being found, because the question doesn't provide the information. Adding the tag to the question for the search would solve it, but with the status quo, a question is simply incomplete if it doesn't provide this information on its own. Tht's all I've been arguing here.

6:09 PM

@FEichinger I've changed the content body. It is now searchable by search terms that I consider what a commoner would search for if they wanted to find a question such as mine. I'm rather proud of how I've fit in pseudo-tags variations.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sconibulus Flotilla, Atom Zombie Smasher, and Air Forte. BTA: Thirty Flights of Loving

I've heard good things about Atom Zombie Smasher

don't know any of the others

@FEichinger You are not correct. We do not consider questions incomplete when they do not contain the game name in the body. That makes it hard to find with the site search, but that is a failing of the site search, and the site search does not dictate policy

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Atom Zombie Smasher is fun.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

The thing is, with the weekly sales many people are lowballing the price with $1 purchases, which means the BTA price actually falls over the week

6:11 PM

GnomeSlice really likes Flotilla.

Never heard of the other two.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Flotilla looks like Frozen Synapse in 3D space

@Sconibulus It's a very fun game

muahahahaha MINE, ALLLL MINE

flotilla is interesting, but kind of slow

and very random

I've also played a lot of atom zombie smasher, it's interesting in small doses, but there's not a heck of a lot there past hour 5 or so

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

No comments on the BTA game?

never played the other two in the pack

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

6:19 PM

@agent86 Still sounds good for a $1 purchase :p

@YiJiang'sEvilClone oh, yeah, I'd highly suggest the pack at $1, or even $5

you can get $2.50 worth of entertainment out of flotilla and AZS

I just wouldn't go in expecting any really long-term games. both are worth an afternoon or a weekend, probably not a whole lot more, imho

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

They do look like pretty neat indie titles with one special game mechanic

Mirrors Edge, 75% off today...already got it but still need to complete it :/

@NiteCyper We can delete that overload of comments now. Also @Sterno

@OrigamiRobot We're finally deleting @Sterno?

5

6:25 PM

I object.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Wow, the Steam app sucks on tablet

Reasons my son is crying

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Sterno Archive this to embarrass him for the next 20 birthdays or so

@YiJiang'sEvilClone Not "my" son, but yeah, I think this kid is doomed.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

Oooo, I know, show this to future girlfriends for bonus points

6:32 PM

@OrigamiRobot I'd rather keep the comments. I don't feel this issue as having been resolved yet.

@NiteCyper The comments won't help a resolution. You'll need a meta topic for it.

Okay, for context

2

Q: What's the deal with the Bouncer's Pal model?

What I don't get is why it has flames visual, yet I received it as modded with the Lightning mod. Same with the saw-blade and all; why does it have a circular saw in it? Does it always have flames visual? Does it always have a circular saw in the end of it? Is it a glitch? Is it a glitch with jus...

Is the issue some people want to close this question due to not having the game name in the body, but only the tag?

@NiteCyper Make a meta post. The comments only clog up the question.

@Ullallulloo I didn't notice. I didn't mean to edit this post to say "I didn't notice". I meant to say "I didn't notice in a response to the responses to the original form of this post informing that I was wrong in asserting that Wipqozn was wrong about believing that the question that he cited had close-votes.

@NiteCyper It has 2 close votes, which is why I jumped to that conclusion.

6:35 PM

@NiteCyper It has two close votes.

why

@Wipqozn I don't think so.

0

Q: How does one become a beekeeper?

Alright so I read the beekeeping 101 on the Wiki for Forestry and really didn't feel like it gave me a good grasp on the subject. If anything it caused more confusion for me. Where should I start in-game for beekeeping?

minecraft-feed-the-beast

0

Q: How can I find the largest fields?

Right now, the Resistance holds >66M mind units. Those must be from some fairly large fields in fairly densely populated areas. But how can I find them? The Intel map isn't particularly useful for that, because it's too slow when loading fields and doesn't indicate when it's finished.

Ehm, how do I see how many close votes something has?

@NiteCyper I'm confused.

@Wipqozn I'd VTC because it sounds like a purely aesthetic problem. Probably something that would be welcomed with open arms on scifi

6:37 PM

@NiteCyper I think you'll have to wait til you get closing powers.

@Ullallulloo You can see close votes before 3k, but I'm not sure when.

@Wipqozn No, I think you're looking at a totally different question.

@OrigamiRobot I'm not displeased with the flames visual. In fact, I like it, but I am confused by it. I don't think I voice such opinions on the question though.

It's on the close button.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

@Wipqozn Only on your own questions at 250 I believe

6:38 PM

@NiteCyper It's not really a problem. It's just a mistake.

@OrigamiRobot What do you mean?

@NiteCyper A bug.

@Wipqozn My inquiry into the anomaly that is the model of the Bouncer's Pal, and not the Bouncer's Pal model in itself, is a bug and not a mistake?

It's about a bug/mistake.

@OrigamiRobot You'll have to be clearer. Saying that something is "about" something is still vague to me.

6:40 PM

The questions is asking about a bug.

@OrigamiRobot Then I ask you, how do you know it's a bug? Nobody has responded so.

...

Because of the reasons you list in your question.

You just broke @OrigamiRobot

@OrigamiRobot I don't list reasons. I list facts. You interpret them as you will.

Those facts are reasons.

"This thing isn't modeled as it should be" is a bug/mistake.

6:42 PM

@OrigamiRobot Then cannot, instead of closing the question, there be responses made that say so? Answering the question? I hadn't learned that that was what was believed unless you had told me, in this chat, outside of the question.

@NiteCyper What is the problem you want to solve with the question?

user15026

It sounds like either a bug, or a why did they design it that way question. Neither we can really help with.

Is this impacting your game in any way besides making you wonder?

@OrigamiRobot The problem is, is the flames visual normal? Do other variations of the Bouncer's Pal have flames visual, or is it just the one modded with the Lightning mod? Does there exist any version of the Bouncer's Pal without flames? Was this intentional or a bug?

What does it matter?

6:44 PM

If the answer is "this bug indicates that my game is about to explode", I think it's worth asking and getting an answer for, so that I can protect myself from the blast. But, I wouldn't know the answer until I ask.

Now you're just making up problems.

@OrigamiRobot But how do I know if that's what my issue indicates or not unless I ask?

yeah, this isn't a Bethesda game, is it?

@Sconibulus Nay, 'tis developed by Deep Silver. It is buggy. Save files can be corrupted at random.

@NiteCyper How is this visual anomaly affecting you game?

6:45 PM

if it were a Bethesda game it would have crashed before he could pick the item up

@OrigamiRobot What if I say that it makes me worry that my game will go into a catastrophic melt-down? Is that sufficient enough to warrant answering?

@NiteCyper I can say that about any question I make up. You can't presuppose crazy consequences.

@OrigamiRobot You're the one saying it's crazy. I've had people ask me simple questions, relative to my knolwedgeability, about games that worries them a lot, like the outcome of their story, which may be all they care about in their game. And the person in question may care a lot about their game, like I do, playing it many hours a day. It's essentially their life, and they want to know if they should be worried about it.

You are being obtuse and ridiculous.

err... did you just say the game is your life?

that makes me weep for you

and consider trying to find an ignore button

6:49 PM

user image

looks legit

"I'm afraid my computer will explode" is not a valid reason to ask a question about why a weapon model doesn't make sense.

"Why does my pink revolver have blue glowy sparks all over it and a half naked woman painted on it oh right I am playing Borderlands"

@BenBrocka ...what.

But... but...

This isn't even my final form http://t.co/tsDQOTIZ5u

Tweeted by Ninnuendo on April 9, 2013 at 6:29 PM

@BenBrocka Ah, I see now. Although, I still consider the question worth answering before closing it, so that the asker may finally have peace, irrelative of how many others may already see what the asker does not.

6:53 PM

@NiteCyper That's not how the site works.

@OrigamiRobot So, a possible sequence of events might be so: Asker asks something. Question gets closed. They open another question that asks the same thing. What is done then?

@NiteCyper The question gets closed again.

And if they keep doing it, they get suspended

Just in case you were thinking of seeing how long we'd keep closing a question

@OrigamiRobot Does an asker become informed of why a question is closed once the asker's question is closed?

@NiteCyper It's in the close reason on the closed question page

6:56 PM

All right, thanks for the answers.

@NiteCyper Usually they are informed in the comments if the close reason itself is unclear.

ಠ_ಠ

0

Q: Does anyone have any spare keys for DOTA 2

I would like to know if anyone has a spare dota 2 key, really looking for one.

Yi Jiang's Evil Clone

bbc.co.uk/news/technology-22078746

It's like the old Microsoft anti trust cases all over again

@SaintWacko instadelete vote powers activate!

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