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3:01 PM
@ThomasMcDonald DE: HR?
0
Q: Will I be pirate if I download?

SauliusWill I be pirate if I download and play to test a Wii game with Emulator and then delete this ROM after 72 hours after download ? Or - how to test a wii game before buying it ?

I think that question would be better if we edited it to be more on the second question.
i.e. How can I legally try Wii games before buying them?
Any objections?
 
@Wipqozn Sounds like a plan to me.
 
@Wipqozn I don't.
 
That's one supporter. It can always be rolled back if there are objections.
@ArdaXi okay, that's an objection
 
user30
@Wipqozn Aye
 
As far as I know, there is no way to test a Wii game before buying it.
Other than playing it in a game shop.
Therefore, the only way this question is answerable is if the answer is "Yes, this is illegal."
 
3:07 PM
@Arda It's still a valid question. That should simply be the answer.
 
If you live in the US, Play N Trade is good for that. They have stuff setup to try games. It's really cool
 
@StrixVaria Agreed.
 
You could rent a game as well.
 
But if the only answer is "You can't." He might think "Oh, I can pirate it then."
If the first question isn't addressed.
 
We could keep his second question in.
 
3:08 PM
I'm gonna toss up an answer
 
Yes.
It might be worth editing it to make both parts equally addressed.
 
My modification would be to switch the focus from pirating to testing.
 
0
A: Will I be pirate if I download?

Simon SheehanI'm fairly sure from my view on this, that it would be illegal in most countries, as you are not the legal owner of the content to begin with. If you owned the game, it would be OK. It does sound morally right to delete it and then buy it if you like it, but at the same time it's not legal. There...

 
I also answered it, citing Nintendo as a source.
@SimonSheehan "If you owned the game, it would be OK." No, it would not.
 
@ArdaXi Oh really?
 
3:12 PM
@ArdaXi It depends on the country.
 
Not internationally.
 
Okay, i removed that line
 
Especially in the US even a second copy of a game you own is illegal.
 
Seriously? :O
 
0
Q: How can I legally try Wii games before buying them?

SauliusThe only method I think of is to download a ROM and test it with an emulator, and then delete it 72 hours after I download it. However, I'm uncertain if this is legal. How can I test a Wii game before buying it?

0
Q: Rise of nations conquer the world campaign has ocean

swordfishI am not sure if this is a bug in the game, but i ve reinstalled the game completely many times, when ever i play a conquer the world campaign after a certain time the map becomes filled with the sea and water. Though the game is still working i am not able to play because of the terrain. I ve tr...

 
3:13 PM
> The backup/archival copy exception is a very narrow limitation relating to a copy being made by the rightful owner of an authentic game to ensure he or she has one in the event of damage or destruction of the authentic.
 
Because I knew that for PC games, downloading them was legal if you owned a CD key for it
 
So you can't download it, you have to make that copy yourself.
@SimonSheehan Nope.
 
For some countries anyway
 
Only if you make that copy yourself. Not if you download it from the internet.
 
@ArdaXi I've been had then, people have been lying to me all these years -.-
 
3:14 PM
@SimonSheehan Welcome to the internet.
 
Time to do some research on piracy.
I do live in Canada, and we are the #1 downloader of pirated content :P
 
IANAL though, and your mileage may vary.
 
IANAL?
 
I just know that downloading second copies is illegal in the US, and legal in the Netherlands.
 
@SimonSheehan Probably because they charge us more for everything.
 
3:14 PM
@SimonSheehan I Am Not A Lawyer.
 
Ah okay
@Wipqozn Yeah, its ridiculous. :/
 
I only just noticed how much my coming from Wikipedia influences my behaviour on SE.
 
@SimonSheehan It could be worse though. We could live in Australia. I know game prices over there are supposed to be really ridiculous.
 
I am very hesitant of providing an answer without citing a source.
 
@SimonSheehan I'm fairly sure that Canada's anti-circumvention rules are pretty similar to those of the US.
 
3:16 PM
@LessPopMoreFizz We allow "sharing."
From what I have read.
 
@SimonSheehan That's because they already charge you for it. I mean, how long ago did they start placing surcharges on writable media?
 
(That is to say, while it may be legal for you to make a copy, circumventing the copy protection required for you to make a copy is illegal. So... catch 22.)
 
@SimonSheehan Well, do some research, and report back.
 
I will, I'm going to do a little research now, we'll get to the bottom of this
 
Damn straight you will.
I want a 2000 word essay on my desk by Tuesday.
 
3:17 PM
This may be an interesting read arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/05/…
 
@SimonSheehan That's specific to music, and is part of a settlement between the gov't and the recording industry - the industry gets a flat payout from surcharges on rewritable media, in return for a promise that they won't prosecute essentially.
 
@Wipqozn YES SIR!
 
But that doesn't apply to media other than music.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Hm, we have a rule. You are always allowed to make a copy. No matter what you have to do to get it.
 
@SimonSheehan You'd think that the US would top the US watchlist there, but apparently we don't need to note that our government already watches us.
 
3:18 PM
Even better. For software, you need to own a copy before downloading a second copy. For films and music, you don't.
Downloading films and music is legal.
 
I was actually hearing from people yesterday that ripping a CD and then burning yourself a copy was illegal, in the US
 
@SimonSheehan A ha... Canada hasn't ratified the WIPO treaties!
@SimonSheehan That's false.
 
@SimonSheehan Yep, definitely wrong.
 
@SimonSheehan Ripping a DVD and burning yourself a copy however...
 
Right, and this is why my morning is now dedicated to researching piracy.
 
3:20 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz Depends on whether you have copy protection to circumvent.
 
@ArdaXi Well yes. But every commercial DVD for the most part does.
 
good afternoon all
 
@SimonSheehan The RIAA would love that. Which is likely why the MPAA "learned" from that mistake and did what @LessPopMoreFizz noted: By adding even rudimentary copy protection into DVDs, it's illegal to rip a DVD.
 
Nobody is going to persecute you for just pirating though. If you sell copies, that's different.
 
3:23 PM
@ArdaXi Yeah, I really like that about here
 
Indeed, as long as you aren't profiting then there doesn't seem to be any issues
 
@ArdaXi Over there maybe, but not in the US
Capitol Records v. Jammie Thomas has been going on for how many years now? 8?
 
@Powerlord "the recording industry sued 261 American music fans for sharing songs on peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing networks"
 
@Powerlord Eh, you've got the chicken and egg backwards there. Region coding on DVD's predates the DMCA and the surge of piracy in general by several years. The MPAA is just lucky that they also happen to be paranoid about arbitrage and like to artificially mangle prices in foreign markets.
 
Sharing != downloading.
 
3:24 PM
@ArdaXi 1) Prosecute, not Persecute.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Region coding isn't copy protection.
 
@ArdaXi It is considered to be under the fairly broad definitions used by the DMCA.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Err, yeah.
@LessPop_MoreFizz But that's not the reason it was put there.
 
More specifically, it's encryption.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz DVD uses what's encryption referred to as "Content Scrambling System". Surely you've heard of DeCSS before?
 
3:25 PM
Nevermind, got this one slightly wrong. Whoops.
 
You are mistaken.
The only way it's tied together is that it's a way to enforce region lock.
 
@ArdaXi Yeah, I see that. Went and double checked myself.
 
CSS-encrypted discs can only be played on compliant devices, which they only get a licence for if they implement region locking.
 
Speaking of which, for Blu-Ray, has AACS been cracked?
 
Wow, Pitchfork redesign
 
3:28 PM
At any rate - I wasn't aware you could make millions by selling pirated stuff
I mean WTF? What's wrong with you?
If you have to pay just pay the original copy.
 
@Mana Does it suck less?
 
@badp There's a difference between paying €5 and paying €50.
 
@LessPopMoreFizz Uhmmm
It's a bit sketchy.
 
@badp Have you never heard of China?
@Mana UGGGHHH STILL FIXED WIDTH DAMN YOU P4K!!!!
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz I know, right?
 
3:29 PM
@ArdaXi There's a difference between paying €5 and €0
 
@badp True. One is feasible for a layman, the other isn't.
 
user30
hmm, I chucked a cardboard box at the swat team and they attacked me
 
@ThomasMcDonald Those dicks.
 
> In any case, technological measures that prevent acts that are exempted under copyright law are protected. Therefore, one is, for instance, not allowed to circumvent a measure that hinders private copying, even though private copying is explicitly exempted under the Dutch Copyright Act.
> The protection of technological measures is limited by the fact that only technological measures applied to copyright protected material are covered. Consequently, technologies preventing acts as regards non-copyrightable material, for instance, material in regard of which the copyright has expired, may lawfully be circumvented.
@arda that sounds like a pretty strong anti-circumvention law without an exception for private copying... just sayin'.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz Where are you getting this? This completely contradicts what an actual Dutch copyright lawyer told me.
 
3:33 PM
There are more details in dutch, but I cannot read dutch.
 
Well, it's wrong, at any rate.
 
@ArdaXi This is why law is a whole bunch of fun.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz This has been disproven repeatedly. See BREIN v. zoekmp3.nl and FTD v. Eyeworks.
> De Nederlandse regering heeft bij het aanpassen van de Nederlandse Auteurswet aan de Europese richtlijnen "uitdrukkelijk en herhaaldelijk verklaard dat het downloaden uit illegale bron voor privégebruik niet verboden is".
 
@ArdaXi I do not speak your moon-language.
 
I think that translates to "I am correct and you are not."
 
3:35 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz If you're patient, I'll translate it.
 
@ArdaXi OKay, thanks.
 
> The Dutch government has, while updating the Dutch copyright laws to European guidelines, repeatedly stated that downloading from illegal sources for private use is not forbidden.
 
@ArdaXi That's not what I'm referring to though.
18 mins ago, by Arda Xi
@LessPop_MoreFizz Hm, we have a rule. You are always allowed to make a copy. No matter what you have to do to get it.
 
Exactly.
 
You might be able to download a copy.
 
3:37 PM
@ArdaXi The Netherland regions have big hats en passant with the Netherland Author Sweats, and the European Rich Linen... and then I kinda stopped because your language has too many Js and Ks...
 
You're not allowed to share it.
 
What you can't do is make the copy.
 
You can.
 
I'm glad that I won't actually need to learn Dutch to get around here
 
Not as I'm reading the legislation right now. If you need to circumvent encryption to do so, you run afoul of your equivalent to the DMCA. If you can get a hold of that copy by other means without circumvention, go nuts.
Seems to be my understanding.
 
English is basically the unofficial national language.
 
Or not.
 
At least here in Amste{rdam|lveen}
 
> According to the Dutch Copyright Act of 1912 everyone has the right to make a copy of a copyrighted work for his or hers private study or use. That same law states that the rightsholders should be fairly compensated for this private copying.
So, basically, we do pay for it.
 
@ArdaXi Yes. But you don't have the right to circumvent encryption. Two seperate rights. You have one, not the other, same as us. Whether your lack of the latter is ever enforced is another matter entirely.
But as a WIPO signatory, you absolutely do have anti-circumvention laws, and more to the point, on reading the legislation, I see no fair use exemption whatsoever.
You've got the same catch-22 as us. The difference is that your governments permissive attitutde towards file sharing gives you something of a back-door around it.
Remember, US law holds that we have the same exact right.
We're unable to excercise it by doing other things which are illegal though. Such as cracking copy-protection.
 
3:43 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz Laws are defined by whether they are enforced.
In courts of law, it has been decided that the right to a copy supersedes the one about circumvention encryption.
 
@ArdaXi the DMCA is pretty terribly enforced here in the US too. There's plenty of piracy going on all the time.
 
There's a difference between being enforced terribly and being superseded by legal precedent.
 
Oh, @LessPop, how was the storm report?
 
@ArdaXi I can't find anything regarding that precedent, though I'm hamstrung by a language barrier, and need to get to work so I can't keep digging.
@GraceNote I'm roughly 1500 miles to the west still!
 
I told you before.
 
3:45 PM
@GraceNote But everyone is okay.
 
10 mins ago, by Arda Xi
@LessPop_MoreFizz This has been disproven repeatedly. See BREIN v. zoekmp3.nl and FTD v. Eyeworks.
 
@LessPop_MoreFizz That's why I said the storm report, not the storm. ♪
 
Of course FTD v. BREIN was a very sad one.
 
What really bugs me in the US is that the registrar of copyrights can introduce temporary DMCA exeptions. My problem isn't with the exemptions themselves, but the temporary part.
For instance, it's currently perfectly legal to jailbreak a phone.
But that has to be renewed every... 3 years is it?
 
How can you prohibit jailbreaking?
 
3:49 PM
@ArdaXi encrypted bootloaders, I believe.
or requiring it to have a signing key. Something like that.
 
But... hang on.
DMCA applies to decryption of any data you own?
 
@ArdaXi Yes. And so does the euro version. WIPO is pretty clear about this.
 
That's retarded.
 
It sure is!
 
> provide adequate legal protection and effective legal remedies against the circumvention of effective technological measures that are used by authors in connection with the exercise of their rights under this Treaty or the Berne Convention and that restrict acts, in respect of their works, which are not authorized by the authors concerned or permitted by law."
> "...provide adequate and effective legal remedies against any person knowingly performing any of the following acts knowing, or with respect to civil remedies having reasonable grounds to know, that it will induce, enable, facilitate or conceal an infringement of any right covered by this Treaty or the Berne Convention: (i) to remove or alter any electronic rights management information without authority;
 
3:51 PM
But... you can't even claim that's copyright protection.
 
> (ii) to distribute, import for distribution, broadcast or communicate to the public, without authority, works or copies of works knowing that electronic rights management information has been removed or altered without authority."
WIPO articles 11 and 12.
 
Psst, hey Mana, want to go up to where I typed "reigtrar" earlier and fix it to be spelled "registrar" ?
 
argh, someone beat me to it
@GRACE. WHY.
 
Now you're starting to understand why so many geeks think the DMCA is a great big steaming pile.
 
@ArdaXi It's a technological measure used by the author in connection with the excercise of their rights. Remember, you don't own the software, you've liscensed it.
@Brant This.
 
3:53 PM
@LessPop_MoreFizz It's not about the software though.
It's about the hardware.
 
@Mana Ask Popular Demand why I exist to "beat you to it" ♪
 
Remember, you don't own the movie... you've licensed it... :P
 
Hey, who likes Arrested Development?
 
ahahahaha
 
@Brant Never seen that show
 
3:54 PM
(removed now that everyone's seen it)
 
Speaking of insurance, has anyone here read Tom Holt's Flying Dutch?
 
@FallenAngelEyes It's quite good, I highly recommend it.
 
@Mana I have way too much television to catch up on already though :( I don't watch tv regularly
 
I don't either.
 
0
Q: How can I get the potion in "Having", level 69 of Spelling Jungle?

Matthew ReadI'm trying to get the red "L" potion on the far right of the screen, and failing. How can I get it? For those who haven't played this game, the mud makes you slide — whatever direction you start moving in, you continue in until you hit a rock/water/grass/etc. To get the potion I would ...

 
3:55 PM
@Brant Can't say I liked it, but like other shows it does have its funny points.
 
@FallenAngelEyes It's a sitcom that's written and plotted like a drama, with season-long arcs and tons of references to itself.
 
@Brant Huh, funky
 
It's hilarious.
I don't mean it's actually a drama, but rather that it's not written like most sitcoms are... They set up jokes that don't pay off until several episodes later.
It's brilliant.
 
Speaking of good TV, who here likes The Wire? Because wireinspire.tumblr.com is amazing
 
Almost every single line of dialogue is a joke on some level.
 
3:58 PM
 
@Brant Isn't the guy who played Scott Pilgrim in that show?
 
Say'm, how does one pronounce a J in Dutch, anyway?
 
@FallenAngelEyes Yeah, it was his 'big break'
 
Yeah, it was his first big break.
 
@GraceNote Y
 
3:58 PM
(And since then he's basically played the same character over and over)
 
@GraceNote Unless it's the "ij" dipthong
then it's like "eye"
 

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