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12:00 AM
hm yeah, if I make it stack-based it would become a bit like Befunge
 
Also, I noticed that the BF interpreter that you found did have problems recognizing incorrect brackets.
 
of course, you won't achieve any control flow that can't be achieved with Befunge or ><> or Fission, but I figured if the language actually restricted the control flow only a bit more it would make it easier to explore certain unconventional loop structures
 
@BrainSteel Well shit on a biscuit.
 
You know what... I can modify the interpreter to be able to translate between all of its available languages on-the-fly...
 
12:05 AM
@MartinBüttner None that I can think of
@BrainSteel :O That'd be nuts
 
except the title thingy...
 
Right. It's not a bad title though.
It's just not super eye catching.
 
I'd say "Take a bitstring down and flip it" but you don't exactly take it down :P
 
@MartinBüttner Have you considered making it metagolf? I don't know how difficult a problem this is.
 
no it's fairly trivial
 
12:07 AM
Oh, okay. In that case, I think it looks good!
@AlexA. Working on a -T flag...
 
@Sp3000 "Now this is a story all about how / My bits got flipped-turned upside down"
3
The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air is an American television sitcom that originally aired on NBC from September 10, 1990, to May 20, 1996. The show stars Will Smith as a fictionalized version of himself, a street-smart teenager from West Philadelphia who is sent to move in with his wealthy aunt and uncle in their Bel Air mansion after getting into a fight on a local basketball court. In the series, his lifestyle often clashes with the lifestyle of his relatives in Bel Air. The series lasted for six seasons and aired 148 episodes. == Development == Will Smith, a popular rapper during the late 1980s, was...
Reference ^
 
alternative (descriptive) title: Print a String with a Ring Buffer of Bits
 
Challenge idea: The Fresh Prints of Bel-Air, Kolmogorov complexity, print all lyrics to the theme song.
 
"Toggle, Print, Repeat"
 
btw @BrainSteel if you wanted metagolf, you should try Insomnia
 
12:23 AM
@MartinBüttner 👍
 
@Sp3000 I'm still hoping the Starry metagolf gets posted at some point (I might just adopt it...)
and I also still want to post one or two metagolfs for Prelude
 
I'm actually thinking KEMURI metagolf would be good
Seeing how I can't use it in the Hello, World! question :/
 
I wonder if it's possible... I really can't program in that language though :D
 
I have ~200, with the help of some browsing of Japanese sites :P
Specifically this outdated Ruby, which has ways of getting the individual letters of "Hello, world!"
 
posted TPR
 
12:34 AM
3
Q: Toggle, Print, Repeat

Martin BüttnerThis challenge is loosely inspired by the unimplemented esolang Pada. Consider an array of 8 bits, all initialised to zero. We'll introduce a very minimalistic instruction set to print arbitrary strings. There are two instructions, both of which take a parameter N which is the index of a bit: ...

 
@Calvin'sHobbies Hello
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Welsh for "long"?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies :D
 
12:43 AM
How's the server been going btw? (Blame Martin for a lack of activity from me)
 
@AlexA. I cant seem to find the message where you asked me to whitelist pairleebel (I'm trying to organize the whitelist and have links to the join messages)
@Sp3000 Pretty good. We've beat a dozen withers and have beacons to prove it. The mail system is fancy and the block part of the museum is done
 
Woo :D onto items then?
 
@Calvin'sHobbies Hm. Did you search the MC room transcript for "pairleebel"?
 
Yep
@Sp3000 Yep. Rodolvertice had the idea of making the items hallway go in the other direction so there won't be weird item-block discontinuities when 1.9 comes out
And I blame Martin for many things
 
Oh... that's a nice idea - saves a lot of walking too
 
12:49 AM
@Calvin'sHobbies I probably asked you while we were playing.
 
Ah, probably
@AlexA. Can you ask me again in the minecraft room so I have something to link to?
 
Come to think of it I definitely asked while we were playing. I remember doing it.
Yeah, I'll go ask now.
 
(this will be going on the about page)
@Sp3000 Yep. Come and check it out. I'm on
 
Not right now, unfortunately :( going through papers
 
@AlexA. See if this code is the correct translation of that BF ;?";?'".'"-",-'";'";'";'"-,";'"-!;;"--."
 
12:56 AM
@BrainSteel Using the C++ interpreter, it still seems to hang. I'll try in yours now.
I don't know how to get it to stop reading from STDIN. :/
 
You would need to send it a 0 byte :| What is it supposed to do, exactly?
 
Sort an input string.
How does send 0 bite
 
don't know what you're talking about but did you try ctrl-z?
 
Hmmm... If you change the BF to this: >,----------[++++++++++>,----------]+++++++++++[<[-<]>[>]>[<-[>]<.>>]<<+] you can get it to stop on a newline (I think)
I don't think that worked.
Well, at least it does stop on a newline...
 
@feersum Does that work on Unix-based systems? I thought that was Windows only and it was Ctrl+D on Unix.
 
1:10 AM
Also, if you put a ~ anywhere in the code, and interpret with the -d flag, the interpreter will print the tape up to the current pointer for you. Hooray debugging!
 
@AlexA. Right, it's different for Unix. I thought you were on Windows.
 
@feersum Nope, Mac. Sometimes I ask Windows-specific questions in here for debugging purposes because I don't know it as well.
@BrainSteel That's awesome! :D
 
I'm looking for feedback on this sandbox question. Does chat think it would work better as code-golf or underhanded popcon?
 
0
Q: Create rainbow text

DoorknobYour challenge is to take input as a line of text and output it like this. Input / output The input will be a string that contains only printable ASCII characters. The first or last characters will never be spaces, and there will never be two spaces in a row. It will always be at least two ch...

 
isn't there an underhanded vote-counting question already?
 
1:20 AM
@AlexA. Translation committed.
 
Yeah there is, I just found it
34
Q: It's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes

dan04The scenario You live in a country that is having a presidential election. Each voter gets one vote, and therefore there is a firmly-entrenched two-party system. (Third parties exist, but get hardly any votes). The latest opinion poll shows the race in a dead heat: 49%: Alberto Arbusto 49%:...

(although that one is first past the post instead of instant runoff)
 
@Pyrrha I think if yours is code golf and not underhanded it would be sufficiently distinct.
@BrainSteel Awwww yissssss
 
I'm pretty sure it works :P
 
1:44 AM
0
Q: Num of pyramids possible with given number of bricks

shaneI encountered this question in an interview and could not figure it out. I believe it has a dynamic programming solution but it eludes me. Given a number of bricks, output the total number of 2d pyramids possible, where a pyramid is defined as any structure where a row of bricks has strictly les...

 
@BrainSteel That works with @AlexA.'s interpreter. Invoke as echo -en 'Hello\0' | ./qqq file.
 
@Dennis What's the -en on echo for?
 
-n disables the implicit newline, -e makes escape sequences such as \0 possible.
 
Cool, thanks.
Yes, this works!
 
Whoops, it doesn't actually work with Hello.
That might be a problem with the BF code itself. Lemme check.
 
1:50 AM
I get He for Hello\0.
 
Oh, I tried it with this, which has the right output. I also get He for Hello\0
 
It's because of duplicate characters.
 
Ah
 
Yes, it's the BF.
The algorithm is Spaghetti sort, and it doesn't take multiplicities into account.
 
Fascinating.
 
1:52 AM
What is spaghetti sort?
 
Decrement all integers, print the original values of those that reached zero, repeat.
 
> It requires a parallel processor.
^ according to Wikipedia
Is that true?
 
Only to run in linear time.
 
You know a lot of things, Dennis.
 
Sorting algorithms and compression were what got me interested in coding.
 
1:56 AM
Ah, now your series of compression challenges makes sense. :D
 
Actually, compression was. I toyed with bzip variants and needed sorting for the BWT.
 
Is compression at all relevant to your math research?
 
Nope.
 
Oh, okay. Have you told me before what you're researching? If so, I may have forgotten. Topology?
 
I try to keep work and pleasure separate.
 
1:57 AM
Spaghetti sort sounds like sleep sort :o
 
Yes, Topology.
 
:)
@Sp3000 Sounds more like playing with your food to me.
 
My APL answer didn't last very long...
 
@Dennis I haven't seen it, but that probably shouldn't be all that surprising. :P
 
2
A: The Programming Language Quiz

DennisAPL, 39 bytes, cracked by Mauris "Helo, Wrd!"[0,1,2,2,3,4,5,6,3,7,2,8,9] Efficiency is everything. This works in the ngn-apl online interpreter (permalink). I was hoping the double quotes, commas and zero-based indexing would be enough to cause some confusion, as they're not normally used in...

 
2:00 AM
Mauris sure has been doing a lot of research... or something
 
He's been super active the last few days.
 
Looks like ß's CnR got him hooked.
I had to write an APL answer because of this:
APL is screwed in this challenge — Fatalize Aug 17 at 7:25
 
Yes! That made me want to post something that looked like APL but wasn't.
 
I was actually pretty impressed Jimmy's first guess was Q, which doesn't seem too far off
 
Yeah!
It's in the APL family
 
2:09 AM
Well, Jimmy's Jimmy. I fully expected him to crack it.
 
Yep :)
 
Hm, I posted a guess on a challenge that was the right language, but I didn't specify the required version number.
Not sure if that counts as an incorrect guess. Martin's probably asleep, so I can't ask him.
 
Does the version number make a big difference for the language?
Still sounds like a correct guess to me, but then again it's not my challenge. ;)
 
I know that I have to specify the correct version number for the crack to count. I'm just not sure if omitting it makes the first guess wrong.
 
What language is it?
 
2:19 AM
I've already said too much. If I'm not allowed to crack it, I should give others the opportunity.
 
I guess I don't understand the issue. It sounds to me like you cracked it.
Version 1 or 2, e.g., seems like a technicality.
 
Heya. Yeah, APL is the first thing I thought of when I saw that indexing style + actual [] brackets.
I totally didn't expect double quotes to actually work, though, so I had to try it out. That was pretty surprising!
 
Aug 17 at 17:24, by Dennis
@MartinBüttner But does the version have to be guessed as well?
Aug 17 at 17:26, by Martin Büttner
I would say so. What are the others' opinions?
@AlexA. ^^
 
Hm. Okay. Just seems so unnecessary to me.
 
(Also, haha, I've been pretty active, I guess... I hit max reputation both yesterday and the day before.)
(I'm on holiday, but there's been some dumb life stuff on my mind, so golf is relaxing. :))
 
2:27 AM
I'm still trying to crack your 3 byte answer, but I had no luck so far. My best guess is a H9Q++ / Brainfuck mashup, but I can't find it.
@AlexA. I'm fine with requiring the version. I'm just not sure if omitting it makes the guess wrong or just incomplete.
 
My guess is an Easter egg of some language on Rosetta, but no luck yet (haven't tried for very long though)
 
I expected it to be difficult, but I somehow don't think it'll last a week
 
The shortest uncracked answer after the 3 byte one seems to be mine, so I have a greater incentive. :P
 
I'm more concerned about Peter's :P
 
With the attention the problem's been getting, 7 days is a loooong time until safety!
 
2:30 AM
Pretty long - grc only just made halfway
 
I have a feeling mine will last a while longer.
 
Peter's answer is 2 bytes longer than my shortest, so no worries. :P
 
I want to take a more methodical approach to the challenge (i.e. download interpreters for a bajillion esolangs and run them all) but it's very time-consuming to set something like that up.
 
I've expanded my cracker to 10 esolangs, most of which are just TrivialBrainfuckSubstitutions :D
(really cautious of another Headsecks answer)
 
Does it include WordFuck that looks like Malbolge? :P
 
2:36 AM
It didn't before, but it does now :P
 
/me downloads all of Rosetta Code.
 
(I have a mental list of suspcious languages for programs with too many spaces: Starry, Wordfuck)
 
@Dennis: your Malbolge polyglot was very cool. How did you pull it off? AFAICT inserting a space into a Malbolge program breaks it horribly 99% of the time.
 
Nope. Malbolge ignores whitespace.
 
Ahh, I see. Neat
(Whew, I'm writing regexes in a keyboard layout I'm not used to. The ultimate "where is all of this rare punctuation" practice)
 
2:40 AM
I guess I should have posted something that looked like WordFuck but was actually Malbolge...
 
0
A: Twisting Words!

DoorknobSnowman 1.0.1, 91 bytes {vg10vg|sB*#.'aGal'NdE'aaAaL|al!*+#5nS" "'aR'!#aCwR|.aC2aG:0aa|sP" "sP'NdE|1aA.aNsP" "sP;aE This is way too short, for Snowman. (It's probably the shortest it can get, though; I worked on golfing this for a pretty long time.) This has one caveat: it will exit with an e...

Snowman returns! :P
(/cc @AlexA. may be interested)
 
@Doorknob /me Is interested
 
@Dennis: my 3 bytes answer got cracked (it's gs2).
11
A: The Programming Language Quiz

Maurisgs2, 3 bytes, cracked by feersum e|h In gs2: e or \x65 is product on lists (such as the empty list of characters representing STDIN), so it pushes an int 1. | or \x7c is power-of-2, which changes it into 21 = 2. h or \x68 is hello, which is a ridiculous command. The story goes as follows: wh...

(I also have a deleted submission in Len(gs2, ASCII), before I noticed the "available interpreter" requirement. It was just 0x1268 bytes of nonsense, the length of which encodes a 2-byte gs2 program that does the very same thing.)
 
2:56 AM
@Mauris did you modify the hello instruction while it was in the sandbox or something?
 
I didn't; it's been like that for ages. I got very lucky.
shinh is running a many months old version on the server, though. I think maybe | is the one that's broken, it moved around a bit or something :(
 
I've seen the language before, but I didn't know about the built-in. Nice job, @Mauris and @feersum.
 
I remembered there was a hello instruction in gs2, so that's why I looked at it.
 
@feersum: actually, it runs just fine on the server for me! Make sure you didn't upload a gs2 file with a trailing newline or something, though
 
I used the form
 
3:00 AM
For me, typing e|h into the form on check.rb gives the correct result
 
Does input mess it up?
 
What. The. Hell. Hulu just decided to screw all Chrome/Linux users.
 
Yeah, input will ruin it -- it gets pushed onto the stack, and then e (product) will turn it into some enormous number, and | will take 2^n, probably making it time out.
 
Time to dump them for Netflix I guess.
 
@BrainSteel Come to think of it, since we knew about the challenge prior to releasing ???, we should have just included a built-in to print "Hello, World!". :P
@Geobits The problem was using Hulu in the first place.
 
3:02 AM
I actually like(d) it. Have had Plus for a couple years, and never really had problems. Decent show selection (but sucks hard for movies).
 
gs2 is secretly better than CJam/Pyth but in a very boring way, probably. It has some absolutely ridiculous features, and some golfers on shinh.org are crazy good at it.
 
> Your browser does not support protected content playback. Please reload the page in another browser. We recommend Mozilla Firefox (link)
 
@Geobits :|
 
I feel like I should make a similar language that doesn't do the whole non-printable ASCII thing, and then the competition would feel more fair
 
I'm actually pretty surprised our golfing languages aren't using unprintables yet.
 
3:06 AM
^
It's mystifying given the number of people who focus on being the smallest across all languages.
 
@Dennis I think it's more of a "nobody's done it yet, so I'll look like a cheater if I do" kind of thing.
 
Easy keyboard entry is a pretty powerful thing to break away from, too.
 
Because printable ASCII is what, 95 characters total? That's not even close to half of the available 255 states per byte.
 
@Doorknob That's probably the reason.
 
I don't see why that would look any more cheater-like than any language designed for golfing.
 
3:08 AM
At one point a long time ago (pre-CJam and co.) I remember thinking of a golfing language similar to GolfScript but with 255 instructions. I remember thinking of something like writing a "compiler," and all that it does is translate, say, ADD to \x210 or whatever (hence retaining easy-keyboard-entry as mentioned by @Geobits). That would seem even cheatier.
 
As for easy keyboard entry, somebody could come up with a codepage for his language that consists entirely of typable characters.
 
@Doorknob: that's exactly what gs2c.py does!
 
@feersum People still end up having to explain the APL count in comments, thinking it's cheating.
Also, fuck Hulu.
 
I could imagine using all possible byte values being extremely powerful for CJam. All of the two-byte e* command would suddenly become one.
 
:|
 
3:10 AM
You know what, someone could do that right now. Make a "DJam" or whatever that's identical to CJam, but first translates any character with the high bit set into e plus the same character without the high bit.
 
Here's a kolmogorov-complexity challenge on shinh: golf.shinh.org/p.rb?vanishing+alphabet
 
@Doorknob That sounds like a downvote magnet. I like it :D
3
 
mitchs (a gs2 golfer) found a 10B solution, which is totally nuts!
I suppose CJam would get 20B or something. (But Pyth seems to be better at the whole alphabet thing, so it'd be somewhere in the tens, probably.)
 
Yes, Pyth has a builtin for the lowercase alphabet.
 
@Dennis Represented by an uppercase letter.
 
3:12 AM
Another silly one: golf.shinh.org/p.rb?sandglass in 23 bytes.
I think mitchs, and maybe whio, are old-school Perl golfers, and they're both amazingly skilled.
 
Another idea that I had once a while ago was <any golfing language> Compressified™, which would entail converting the entire <lang> program to binary. You could then chop off the high bit (which is always 0 in ASCII), string them all back together, and bam, 12.5% byte count reduction for every single language, no matter which it is, as long as it uses only printable ASCII.
 
@Doorknob :O
 
Somebody else was talking about that a while back, too. Made its way to meta I think.
 
That would be Sparr.
-5
A: Fair size comparison across languages with different source alphabets

SparrAs of the time of posting this answer, for the purpose of the site rules about only using languages published before a question is asked, I am defining the meta-language "Simple Bit Encoding", which might be abbreviated "SBE-". This meta-language can be applied to any other language, so you might...

 
@Doorknob: I was going to Hamming-encode gs2 first. So dup would be like, 5 bits, but something-ridiculous could be more like 13.
 
3:15 AM
Not popular.
 
The general state of not-printable-ASCII right now though is "nobody else is doing it, so I don't want to be the first."
@Mauris Oh wow, that sounds really scary combined with CJam or Pyth.
 
I'd like to see the golfing languages bring about their own demise, so perhaps I should make a 256-character language to hasten the reductio ad absurdum.
 
I've often thought about doing a cheap conversion of Java (call it something stupid like Espresso), but 1) I'm lazy as hell, and 2) it would still suck at golfing.
 
Yeah, I don't remember why I didn't go with it, it was just sort of tricky, I think.
Plus, to make a nice mapping, you need a good idea of which commands are popular. So I did a lot of frequency analysis on GolfScript to find out!
 
@feersum Go with 255. Leave the poor zero-byte alone, he never did anything to anyone.
 
3:19 AM
Turns out the most common 4-byte sequence in all solutions on golf.shinh.org is {+}*, IIRC.
 
I take that back, \0 is a killer. He's terminating strings all day long.
On that note..... night!
 
@Geobits Yeah, down with null terminated strings!lk;L)--.4$($(*@;kjcx9*(@#mfj2@
I'm off to sleep as well. Night!
 
@Doorknob Goodnight!
@feersum :(
 
Well look what I found.
18
Q: Code Crosswords

Calvin's HobbiesThis is a cops-and-robbers challenge. Answer here if you are a cop (crossword maker), answer the companion question if you are a robber (crossword solver). You may take on both roles. Cops (Puzzlers) Your task is to write a 10×10 crossword puzzle where, instead of words or phrases, snippets of ...

 
3:25 AM
Neat. The 0-darks ones are the most fun to compose, though!
And header-less, and footer-less.
Maybe I should make a very big (think NYT-style) CJam crossword puzzle
 
4:25 AM
I've just watched two movies in a row. Should I go for a third?
@Mauris Do you know this guy?
 
4:40 AM
@AlexA.: He steals my username of choice in a bunch of places...
 
@Mauris "A bunch of places" as in multiple SE sites or as in other places on the Internet where your paths have crossed?
 
The latter, yeah! Like GitHub.
(I'm gonna be off for a bit; see ya.)
 
Okay, have a good evening
 
5:24 AM
@MartinBüttner I've posted a guess on an answer that the cop did not respond to in a meaningful way, because it lacks the specific version the answer requires. Is my guess wrong (meaning that do not get to guess again) or simply incomplete (meaning that I only have to reveal the correct version)?
 
6:23 AM
I have a new favorite language:
0
A: Two Makes All The Difference - Cops

DennisMalbolge, 411 bytes Code bCBA@?>=<;:9876543210/.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9y76543210/(L,l$H('&%$#"!~}v{zyxwvutm3qponmlkjihgfedcba`_^]?zZYXWVOTSRQPONMFjJIHGFEDC<`@?!=<;4X87w/S3s10/.-,+*)('&%$#"!~}|{zyxq7Xtmrk1onPlkdihg`&dcbD`_^]\[ZYXQutTSRQ...

 
@Dennis :D
Too bad it isn't ??? though
 
@Dennis you are being Martinified...
 
Wrong Martini
 
Close enough
 
6:38 AM
@Optimizer True. That one was for ß's challenge though.
Good night everybody.
 
Goodnight!
 
6:50 AM
hi is this a place i can ask a programming question?
 
7:15 AM
0
Q: Sign that word 2!

KslkghSign that word 2! Not that long ago, I posted a challenge called Sign that word!. In the challenge, you must find the signature of word, which is the letters put in order (e.g. The signature of this is hist). Now then, that challenge did quite well, but there was one key issue: it was WAY too ea...

 
8:14 AM
@feersum you seem to be missing the fact that the existing golfing languages are actually fun to program in (well I don't know about Pyth, but CJam at least). I'm not sure how enjoyable a language would be where I can't even see half of the code ;)
 
BTW, which BF derivatives/translations output with j?
 
Two makes all the difference CnR is officially closed :D
It's been a good week
 
Python is also fun to program in...I'm sure it will be enjoyable to write some Python and then put it in the automatic translator
 
Is there some huge and easily searchable list of BF derivatives actually? :D
(Or should I create it... ?)
 
8:25 AM
@BetaDecay did you notice the words easily searchable? ^^
 
What do you want to search for? The commands used?
 
yeah, the characters, like "it uses X for input"
maybe if I can parse the pages with nodejs.....
 
Nah, looking through the formatting for defining the characters varies wildly from page to page
But the most popular format is a table, with the BF commands on the left and the new symbols on the right
 
or list - sometimes
 
8:53 AM
This "The Programming Language Quiz" entry doesn't have a main article in the given pages so I'm posting it here as a riddle. (And I would guess you know other languages where it works too.)
!Hello, World!
 
@feersum I'm not sure that would be optimal, or even competitive. Also, when I use CJam outside of golfing it's often for simple throwaway scripts where typing speed is actually a bottleneck in creating the code. If there was a "long form" of CJam with full words for each operator, I doubt I'd use that.
 
A stack-based language with descriptive names for operators would not look nice, for sure
I think a substitution based on a Huffman-coded set of Python tokens should be competitive against languages using only pritnable ASCII
 
9:08 AM
@Dennis which answer?
@feersum uh yeah possibly. I'm really not sure why I'd use it though.
 
The idea is intentionally unattractive
 
it might not succeed in bringing about the demise of golfing languages then ;)
 
 
2 hours later…
11:23 AM
heh, nice SO logo
 
loooooogo
 
huh, I had pillow installed for python3.4 but not working in python3.3
but even after fixing that, this new interpreter I'm trying is still failing spectacularly
why is there so much non-working code on the interwebs? T_T
 
12:08 PM
10 million questions on SO
 
12:33 PM
Beta Decay's avatar and vote count in the mod election look identical :D
 
12:47 PM
-1
Q: Algorithm failing for only 2 test case in hackerrank

anonymousI tried to attempt hackerrank problem of https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/poisonous-plants and come up with below algorithm. I require some help as my solution is failing only 2 test cases and they are large data set so difficult to debug. I am including link to test case http://ideone.com/B...

 

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