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3:00 AM
@HyperNeutrino >_> don't expect 0.0.0.0 to work, it doesn't even mean any one IP
 
lol ok
hyper_neutrino@localhost ~/Desktop> traceroute 216.58.126.4 -p 5000
traceroute to 216.58.126.4 (216.58.126.4), 30 hops max, 60 byte packets
 1  216-58-126-4.cpe.distributel.net (216.58.126.4)  2.122 ms  2.043 ms  2.099 ms
 
@HyperNeutrino hmmm funny you would be posting that link so much you get kicked
 
@DestructibleLemon wait "you" as in "me" directly? not sure what you mean..?
 
ironic
@HyperNeutrino no, you as in one
 
Anonymous
Let's move on...
 
3:01 AM
I was going to reply, but I agree with Mego. Won't reply to that.
 
@HyperNeutrino seems to be working for me?
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino Well that was uninformative :P It's a silly question, but did you hit "save" on the router config?
 
@ASCII-only wait what do you mean, you can access my site but I can't? :o
@Mego uh yes I did :P
 
i thought it was amusing one would be unable to tell the time to stop posting a video announcing it is time to stop
 
@HyperNeutrino also why not use anagol
 
3:02 AM
but i don't think there's anything more to comment than that
 
Anonymous
@HyperNeutrino curl 216.58.126.4:5000 works from my end
 
@DestructibleLemon We should move on from this topic.
 
@HyperNeutrino http://216.58.126.4:5000/ right?
 
yes
it works from my computer but not my chromebook
 
3:02 AM
hmm what
 
Crap. I made an infinite loop. God dang it
 
Anonymous
Sounds like a Chromebook issue :P
 
@Zacharý in what
 
yeah, it does seem like it :P
 
@DestructibleLemon A modgrammar grammar for just general math notation (as a test).
 
3:05 AM
@Mego Oh cool!
 
@Zacharý gist pls
 
might be an empty expression?
 
3:21 AM
I'll check that eventually, I'm too tired to think straight,
 
3:59 AM
cmc: shortest string not pwned on haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords
I just found a length 2 string
actually now that i think about it...
is it in bytes or characters, because you could use unicode...
I also found a 1 character 2 byte one...
maybe shortest alphanumeric string? shortest alphabetic string?
 
@DestructibleLemon alphabetical
unicode is too easy
 
i mean
i found /~ not pwned
so it's not just unicode
 
found one with letter + symbol
 
alright, so alphanumeric, then alphabetic
do we have caps?
 
yeah
 
4:03 AM
ok so, categories: alphanumeric with caps, alphabetic with caps, no caps alphanumeric, no caps alphabetic
find the shortest one for each category?
QhD not pwned
3Q3 not pwned
apparently a single space is not pwned...
 
@DestructibleLemon because space is normally not allowed?
 
i guess...
 
qE: 0, qkzf: 0, K5: 13
 
| has only been seen 20 times apparently, that's pretty low
 
4:08 AM
lowest number not used?
 
As opposed to - -> 13885
> ';drop table users;--
> Your request has been forbidden
looks like it does that to anything matching /drop .*;--/i
 
@ETHproductions lol
 
4:45 AM
Python CMC: this. of course.
 
@user202729 43 bytes
 
(assumes there is no unexpected =)
 
@user202729 ?
 
@user202729 :( ninja'd
@user202729 also stolen from a linked question
 
4:56 AM
Came up with independently.
... fast notification is too fast for me.
What about other languages?
 
What input format?
List of strings?
 
5:14 AM
Hmm when I think about it I really should add dict
 
:| Charcaol has mathematica but not dict?
 
lol
 
@Downgoat it has dict but not a 1-char abbreviation
@Downgoat it also has dictionaries as a core language feature
 
@user202729 40
 
oh yeah i should also make more things vectorize. e.g. split
 
5:52 AM
Howdy golfers! I wonder if it might be fun to have a challenge involving the old Hershey fonts? Anyone in here ever looked at those?
They're in a weird old FORTRAN card letter-encoded coordinate system designed to drive a plotter. Tons of vector graphics characters.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Esolanging Fruit Sandbox Notes Is this inflammatory, mean, and liable to draw unwanted and unnecessary attention to low-voted questions in the Network? Better tags? I should probably write a snippet to find all angry Metas. Angry Meta internet stack-exchange-api code-golf decision-problem A ...

 
But I can't quite come up with a good challenge to use them. Render some text to a window? Convert to a modern font format?
I have a bunch of old dead sandbox posts. I want to have a little more developed before sinking another one there. lol
Well, I'll be logged in a while if anyone has any thoughts or questions. IIRC there's even russian characters in there, and some old typographical glyphs that aren't in modern use. It was developed by the Navy I think, and then published by the bureau of standards.
Sadly, it may not make a good challenge. Like my Clacker Animation old-style card formats are really fiddly and the text processing takes a ton of work.
 
6:28 AM
@WheatWizard Re Shell Glob Golfing: If you still have questions about input you can take a look at the existing answers to see how they do it. I'll be asleep and not answering anything for a while.
 
Mathematica "dict" is named Association. Or maybe Dispatch.
 
@user202729 Or Association List.
Or Rules
The one that behaves the most dict-like is Association
You can index into with [[]] and stuff
 
I think Association use []?
1
A: The Programming Language Quiz, Mark II - Cops

user202729???, 506 bytes Base64: 4p2iI3sqJkp6SCpSc2FwTippXiFmIVlT4pyG4p2z4p6LaCrinrMhJkDinaFWU1Xi nINk4p6fJOKem2jinoo+4p6P4p224p6H4p2uKuKctl5e4p2gXmYo4pyM4pySQEAk 4p6YS0khJeKcseKdp+KcsCrinIVeV+Kdgihe4p2jKOKerWRGc+KcnkFAS+Kcrngp VOKcnOKcgUVRJAoKdmFyaT0iIjEwMApwcmludCgKaWYgPiAwCSAKICh7e0VOUDA7 CiAiKSEiCiBn...

Anyone want to crack ^?
 
Wow, the topmost line is a mess.
 
(edit of my last deleted answer, for which I posted a message in TNB too without any intended crack)
 
6:38 AM
@user202729 [] is always function call
 
Wow Is <|...|> some kind of dictionary in Mathematica?
Oh, it's an association....
 
@user202729 New theory: Associations are stupid: tio.run/##y00syUjNTSzJTE78/z@gKDOvJJrLpkZBKSmxSElB107BSEdBKS0/…
 
Jelly, 6 bytes æl/÷g/ for the other CMC
 
7:01 AM
9 hours ago, by caird coinheringaahing
@Adám Jelly, 6 bytes: æl/÷g/
 
I used the CMC widget so I didn't see caird's message
 
@DJMcMayhem I put down 1, because the only language I can have a real conversation in is English. I know enough German to have small conversations with my German-born landlady, but nothing very complicated. We invariably end up back in English. Ich will aber mehr lernen.
 
7:17 AM
@Mr.Xcoder What is the CMC widget?
 
@Adám A(n?) userscript created by ATaco that lets you see the recent CMCs posted in The Nineteenth Byte.
 
@Mr.Xcoder Installed. Thanks.
 
7:52 AM
@Mods Please unfreeze the Brachylog chat room.
Brachylog begins its reign as Language of the Month in 2 days!
 
@DLosc wait wat
what is this "Language of the Month" you are talking about
 
hang on.
There are languages that more than 10 people use? O_o
 
@DLosc You're all lucky I got a bit more free time this month to answer all the inevitable questions
 
@ASCII-only Well, Python, for one. ;) But also Jelly, Pyth, CJam are/were all quite popular, I believe.
@Fatalize I'm looking forward to it. I like Prolog, but never got into Brachylog (mainly because of the non-ASCII character set). This event will give me a nice nudge in the right direction.
 
8:07 AM
@DLosc It won't be very hard to learn if you already know Prolog
 
@Fatalize A note about logistics: I think, once March 1st arrives, I will (or someone else can) make a new meta post entitled Language of the Month, March 2018: Brachylog and copy over the helpful parts of the nomination post (especially the links). Then the nomination post can be edited down and deleted, like we do in the Sandbox.
 
@DLosc Sure
The last time a Brachylog answer was posted by someone other than myself was December 19th 2017
 
8:34 AM
@Fatalize O_o
 
Not a very popular language :p
 
@DLosc Exact opposite of me. I was always scared off by Prolog's needed boilerplate and strange keywords. Brachylog made it all accessible.
 
@Adám Prolog has very few language constructs though?
@Adám So did you ever use Brachylog?
 
@Fatalize I fell on the ice and hit my head... Got a concussion that apparently is way worse than first anticipated... :/
 
@StewieGriffin Well that sucks :/ concussions can be real bad indeed, hope you'll recover well
 
8:48 AM
Went to a specialist on Friday... Her prediction is that I can work 10% in a few months, but won't work 100% this year at all...
 
@Fatalize Not competitively. Only to play around with after seeing the intro video.
@StewieGriffin Oh no. Feel better soon. There's code that needs golfing.
 
And challenges that must be written!
 
@StewieGriffin Yes, otherwise there's nothing to golf.
@StewieGriffin Ice rink or street?
 
I haven't written a challenge since June 2017… I've had no inspiration whatsoever :/
 
@Adám Ice patch... Hit my head right at the paving stones.
Well, got to go...
 
8:53 AM
@StewieGriffin Ouch. When I lived in upstate New York, I screwed hex-head screws into my Swedish soldiers' (ski) boots for good grip on icy days.
 
Time to go rest in the dark so that I'm ready when the family gets home...
 
@StewieGriffin Wait, what? You're leaving TNB‽ Must be the concussion…
 
@StewieGriffin Ouch... Speedy recovery!
 
rip me
need to use python how it should never be used for so many things
 
Just go ahead and port to PowerShell :P
 
9:09 AM
@Mr.Xcoder *Dart. or jQuery.
 
9:28 AM
@StewieGriffin Sorry about that!
Now you have an excuse to have to write short code :-P
 
0
Q: linkedlist error

Abhishek S#include<stdio.h> include include struct node { int data; struct node *next,*prev; }; struct node *head,*temp,temp1; void main(){ int c=1; clrscr(); while(c) { temp=(struct node)malloc(sizeof(struct node)); printf("enter the data for the node\n"); scanf("%d",&temp->data); if(head==NUL...

 
@NewMainPosts VTC without reading
 
10:08 AM
CMP: Should I make a mother meta , asking them to enable MathJax back on PPCG? I am afraid that it might get closed because it's about a specific site, and if I re-ask on our meta, they're probably going to ignore it.
I think I'll actually post on our meta again and see what happens.
 
@Mr.Xcoder they'll definitely close it because of that
 
Ok then I'm going to re-ask on our meta
0
Q: Can we have MathJax back (part II)?

Mr. XcoderMore than a month ago, we've reached a consensus: We want MathJax back. The reasons why it was turned off in 2015 no longer seem to apply, and details about why MathJax is needed on this site are detailed in the linked post. After a while, I asked a Community Manager about what we shall do next, ...

 
Should have made a mother meta post titled "Stop ignoring us" with this and the design too :p
 
it's actually us who are responsible for this
 
Grace Note answered the questions about why we didn't get the design yet. It's not us, it's them
 
10:20 AM
there are priorities which must be fulfilled before we get the design
 
2
Q: Can we have MathJax back (part II)?

Mr. XcoderMore than a month ago, we've reached a consensus: We want MathJax back. The reasons why it was turned off in 2015 no longer seem to apply, and details about why MathJax is needed on this site are detailed in the linked post. After a while, I asked a Community Manager about what we shall do next, ...

 
@NewMetaPosts Lightning fast today
See this if you are interested about why we didn't get a design yet.
 
That answers why they're not starting a design right now, but now why they hadn't started 1.5 years ago
@EriktheOutgolfer Like what?
 
11:11 AM
CMQ: In Dyalog APL has variables, functions, and higher-order functions. When doing OOP, we call variables "fields" and functions "methods". What should we call OO higher-order functions?
 
s/In//
 
11:22 AM
@Adám higher-order functions are still functions...
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Duh, I forgot to mention that higher-order functions are called operators in non-OO context. My whole question is silly without that info.
 
@Adám at least in general, I don't think we ever call higher-order functions "operators"...
at least that must not be the case for languages such as Python or C#...
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Who's "we"? The APL community certainly makes a precise distinction between operators (higher-order) and functions (first-order).
 
@Adám the "in general", I don't think that's generally true
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Right, because there is no distinction. Any function can take anything as argument, be it a function or regular data. But APL does not allow regular functions to take functions as arguments.
 
11:28 AM
@Adám that's a completely different case though
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Well, I'm asking for suggestions to extend the existing APL terminology.
 
@Adám then it's your "we" that needs clarifying ;-P
> When doing OOP, we call variables "fields" and functions "methods".
 
@EriktheOutgolfer Yes, my question was all sorts of messed-up. Where's the CMQ sandbox?
 
ngn
APL and OOP don't mix well
 
CMQ: When APLers speak of higher-order functions, they call them operators. When APLers speak of variables and functions in an OOP context, they call them fields and methods. What should APLers call their operators (higher-order functions) in OOP contexts?
@ngn VTC as primarily opinion-based ;-)
 
11:35 AM
@ngn I think OOP APL is an entirely different culture :P
 
ngn and OOP don't mix well.
 
ngn
11:45 AM
@Adám "variables and functions" - I always had a bit of a problem with that APL terminology too
 
@ngn I suspect you prefer "nouns" and "verbs"?
 
ngn
@Adám no, it's not that
 
@ngn Then what?
 
ngn
@Adám I (and I suspect most of the world) call a "variable" what APLers call a "name".
@Adám in JS one can write "var a=function(){...}"
 
@ngn Ah, I see. "symbol" is what we call them at Dyalog. E.g. takes one or more symbols as left argument.
 
ngn
11:48 AM
@Adám if you ask an APLer: what is "a"? they will say a function; if you ask anyone else: it's a variable whose value happens to be a function
 
@ngn Right. Yeah, there's not really a good distinction between names and their "content" in traditional APL. I've lately argued that no "content" should know its name.
 
ngn
@Adám no, everyone at Dyalog calls them "names"; by "symbols" they understand something entirely different - ask Geoff
 
I don't tend to refer to functions as variables myself. Although, I do use Haskell
 
@Adám metamethods
 
@ngn If I was to rewrite APL, neither functions, nor objects would contain their name.
@Fatalize Thank you for answering the question rather than questioning the premise. Here have a cookie: 🍪︎
 
11:52 AM
Can I have a second cookie because my proposition has nice m-t alliterations?
(also TIL there is a cookie emoji…)
 
@Fatalize t vs th, uhh…
@Fatalize Do you see a difference between 🍪︎ and 🍪?
 
@Adám yes
black and white VS colored
@Adám Both are voiceless dentals, so kinda :P
 
ngn
@H.PWiz Haskell treats functions as first-class values (APL doesn't even do that), my argument should definitely apply there
 
Maybe, but I was just objecting to "anyone else"
 
ngn
@H.PWiz would you call "let f = \x ..." a variable and "f x = ..." a function?
@H.PWiz it's actually hard to reason about "variables" in haskell, as they don't vary
 
12:03 PM
All tests finally passing (yay), time to break more things >_>
 
@ngn exactly, sometimes I would refer to something like x=2 as a variable though. But more often than not, I call it a number
 
ngn
@H.PWiz you're thinking of the value, not "x" itself
 
@ngn call them unknowns :P or objects or data values
 
@ngn Like in mathematics, I would say x is a number
 
@H.PWiz I'd call x a pronumeral, or variable
Usually variable though since in high school a lot of the algebra you do is to do with equations without specified values, and it's shorter to say
 
ngn
12:15 PM
@Adám to answer the cmq, I think whatever existing term you choose to call them, you'd have to explain it, so why not make up an informal portmanteau like "operethods" which makes it easy to recognise instantly what you're talking about (assuming familiarity with APL and OOP)
 
@ngn Maybe we don't even need a different term. So what that they're all called methods? Compare to A←{⍺ ⍺ ⍵} vs B←{⍺⍺ ⍺⍺ ⍵}.
 
ngn
@Adám following the same logic: maybe you should call operators functions
 
@ngn Yes and no. Method describes their role in the OO context where it maybe doens't really matter what syntactic class they have. The distinction between functions and operators is important in (today's) APL, to know how to put things together to a well-formed statement.
On the other hand, method implies the ability to do something with the object. Operators don't do anything by themselves (at least if used in the usual way), they just apply methods/functions in modified ways.
That being said, you could potentially remove all functions from APL and replace them with operators, and you would still be able to do everything, though monadic function application would need placeholder left operands.
 
ngn
@Adám technically true
 
@ngn Would that make APL left-associative?
 
ngn
12:22 PM
@Adám do you consider it right-associative now?
 
@Adám Functors?
 
@ngn Yes, although I realise it is mixed.
 
ngn
@Adám in that case, I guess, yes, that would be a left-associative apl :)
@Fatalize is that a suggested term for the operator-methods?
 
higher order methods yeah
 
ngn
@Fatalize it would make us (apl people) look silly when we meet someone familiar with category theory :)
 
12:27 PM
I suggest that APL having its own meanings for functors and for monads would be a bad combination
 
ngn
@H.PWiz good point about monads, we already look silly :) though apl was first to use that term
 
APL was first about a lot of things in programming, but for some reason the terms that Iverson called various concepts didn't catch on. AFAICT, APL was the first programming language to have functions be arguments. First to generalise infix functions/operators (using the terms monadic and dyadic - and niladic for that sake).
 
ngn
@Adám but but... functions can't be arguments in apl! I consider that one of its major drawbacks
 
@ngn They can, but only to operators. Is that a limitation? Yes. Is it arbitrary? Maybe, but it does provide nicer syntax.
 
ngn
@Adám operators are applied late - when the derived function is applied
 
12:34 PM
@ngn True. But so what?
 
ngn
@Adám that's very different from, say python, where you can immediately do something with the argument-function
@Adám my fav example is memoisation - you can't do it in apl
 
@ngn Yes. Although you can get that effect by supplying a dummy argument. E.g. you can count the number of lines in the function foo with foo{f←⍺⍺ ⋄≢⎕NR 'f'}⍬.
@ngn No?
 
ngn
@Adám I'll need an hour to digest that :)
@Adám actually no, the answer lies on the first line - the cache is passed from the outside, not created at the moment when you apply the operator
 
@ngn But could't you easily make an operator which takes a function and gives it a cache if it doesn't have one?
 
ngn
@Adám that's exactly what's in the link you sent
@Adám the point, however, is to create the cache the moment when you do g←f memo
 
12:44 PM
@ngn Why?
 
ngn
@Adám without passing it from the outside
@Adám because you wanted an example for passing a function as an argument :) if you change the definition of memoise so that the critical work is done outside of it, then obviously the example becomes useless
 
@ngn Speaking of which. Roger has proposed adding a memo operator.
 
ngn
@Adám yeah, it was proposed years ago, I was initially against it because I considered memoise too high-level and just a patch for a more fundamental underlying problem (lack of first-class functions in apl), but now that Dyalog has ⌸ and ⌺ and ⎕json ... probably doesn't matter much
@Adám squiggle non-proliferation has gone out of control
 
ngn
@Adám ah, I remember that, the partition function, Roger implemented it in a very impressive way
@Adám will read later, gtg
 
12:59 PM
@ngn I disagree. I personally would like just two more squiggles.
 
ngn
@Adám you belong to the J camp then :)
@Adám have you watched Guy Steele's "Growing a Language"?
 
@ngn What? I don't know if I would have added trains (or if yes, in their current form), but now that we have them, there are some glaringly missing operators. And the equivalent of but for depth is awkwardly missing too.
@ngn Yes.
@ngn Is K a growing language?
 
ngn
@Adám J = big vocabulary; k = small
 
@ngn Yup. I'm somewhere in the middle in that regard. I do believe we need an easy way to import libraries though.
 
LoL I got confused because for a moment I thought this room was The APL Orchard hahahahah
G'morning everyone o/
 
1:16 PM
I have an idea for an optimization puzzle, but I'm not sure how to set the scoring. How are tiebreakers usually set?
 
Byte count? Although I don't see a problem with ties
 
I believe time is usually the most impactful factor in optimization puzzles
But then again, to score time is kinda hard and would force everyone to use a language available in TIO (or some other site) that would allow you to consistently time the codes
@Unihedron ^
 
@J.Sallé TIO doesn't time consistently...
 
We need a Time It Online.
 
@EriktheOutgolfer well, what I meant is that (I think?) every interpreter runs on the same machine, so you can time it a few times and take a mean
 
1:23 PM
@tfbninja it's my last name plus computing lol.
 
Wonder if one could score by time×bytes (lowest score wins). May need some constant or exponents.
 
@Adám yeah that was what I thought as well. Although, as I said, we'd need some way to time the codes consistently (or at least on the same environment for every code submitted)
 
@J.Sallé Yeah. We do need to work that out somehow. I'm planning for a challenge this summer.
 
Most of the time all of the submissions must be tested locally.
 
It also means your performance depends on the implementation quality of the interpreter, which means either the Befunge answer specifies which interpreter, or I have to test for most of them
 
1:29 PM
@user202729 By whom?
 
@J.Sallé I believe too has several servers for different locations. The performance may differ
 
... the OP.
 
@user202729 How would one compare across OSs?
 
@H.PWiz oh booger.
Yeah, the other solution I can think of is for whoever proposed the challenge to time each code themselves, but that'd be a lot of work if the challenge gets popular.
 
@DJMcMayhem I read that and was confused by that.
 
1:34 PM
Or you set restrictions on what languages can compete.
 
@AdmBorkBork That would get lots of downvotes.
 
For code-golf, probably. Language restrictions exist on KotH without issue. They've existed in the past for Fastest-Code challenges without issue.
 
Maybe one could restrict to a single core, and then divide the time by some benchmark for each machine.
 
Yes, that would definitely get lots of downvote.
And I think it's possible to restrict to a particular OS.
20 hours ago, by Adám
@dzaima So? It's still the most active chat room on SE.
Really?
Information: There are 4 uncracked answers on TPLQ2 right now.
 
20 hours ago, by Adám
@labela--gotoa Appears so. Doesn't include SO, though.
 
1:41 PM
As far as [fastest-code] goes, this is used for grading on an informatics contest
 
Real life contest -> language restriction -> downvote.
(I got bored of C++-or-Pascal (although some does provide more than that, they will never support Jelly (unless you copy-and-paste the whole Jelly source code and submit in Python)))
Having most users does (<- is that correct? Should I use do?) not imply most activity. Some users (seem to) never say anything.
 
@user202729 nice sentence nesting, 9/10.
 
Anonymous
@user202729 Some of us just lurk until the time is right for a witty comment, and then disappear into the void again
 
@Mego I know.
 
@user202729 most users do would be more correct
 
1:45 PM
I mean, the rules of the contest say C or Pascal, but the grading is done on machine code level, so there is no problem with wrapping every language on TIO with this when a special timing mode is enabled
 
@J.Sallé Better?
Why is Bubbler hidden from the active users list?
 
@user202729 Do you downvote KotH challenges because they have a language restriction?
 
I don't even take the time to read the challenge...
 
@user202729 Because SE chat only shows 32 users at once, then you have to click the "…" after the last user's name to see all of those that are currently in the room
 
@user202729 yes
 
1:49 PM
Does anyone know if TIO uses any specific server based on the request's physical location?
 
@Adám It doesn't
 
@Mego for example
 
You could ask in talk.tryitonline.net
 
I don't like it that there is no (without userscript of course) way to clear chat notification without answering, and I may get inbox notification if I don't clear them up in a minute, and if I post unused message here someone will probably kick me.
 
You can click on the red bubble...
 
1:51 PM
that
 
@ASCII-only Then it should be possible to compare execution speed by letting each language include its own timing, and try each language in order (and close succession to account for time of day differences), multiple times, then average.
 
@Mr.Xcoder with the keyboard, builtin.
 
[reading transcript] @HyperNeutrino you might want to look at OBS
 

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