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12:00 AM
@DestructibleLemon The explanation of the messages? Yeah, I'd say so
 
no i meant talking about the fact that a spoiler exists to explain something
 
deep
 
Oh. Uhh, I don't think it does
 
time travel
 
i would have guessed something about alternate universes or time travel
 
12:03 AM
I have no idea
I don't even own the game
 
12:20 AM
@DestructibleLemon I won't say what it is, but it's definitely not that :P
 
@DJMcMayhem I'm 99% certain I know what is it
 
Watching a video about flat earth. So wrong in every way
 
why do you do this to yourself
 
Omg. He said that relativity is "jüst a theory". He doesn't understand that theory never becomes a law
@HyperNeutrino idk
 
@Christopher nicë umlaut
 
12:33 AM
tacoscript
ok this is getting so bad
 
@Christopher how about that video of the guy who thinks the banana is proof of god?
 
starts with space is fake. Now uses stars to "provë" flat earth
and they move
 
@DestructibleLemon më töö thänks
 
@DestructibleLemon 0/10 call it diaeresis instead
 
Holy shit they are retards
 
12:35 AM
probably satire or something
 
nope
 
(I mean technically they are different but like still, the accent when written out has no difference :P)
 
how do you know?
 
@HyperNeutrino interesting thing to note: accents are not generally considered part of a 'language'
 
12:36 AM
A metal umlaut (also known as röck döts) is a diacritic that is sometimes used gratuitously or decoratively over letters in the names of hard rock or heavy metal bands—for example those of Blue Öyster Cult, Queensrÿche, Motörhead, The Accüsed and Mötley Crüe. Among English speakers, the use of umlaut marks and other diacritics with a blackletter style typeface is a form of foreign branding intended to give a band's logo a Teutonic quality—connoting stereotypes of boldness and brutality presumably associated with Germanic and Nordic cultures. Its use has also been attributed to a desire for a "gothic...
 
they're part of the writing system native to that culture/language, but not the language
 
hm interesting note
 
source: intro linguistics is cool af
 
@DestructibleLemon so basically a metal umlaut is just a diaeresis used to make things look cool but for no other reason at all
 
12:38 AM
lol
 
> Speakers of languages which use an umlaut to designate a pronunciation change may understand the intended effect, but perceive the result differently. When Mötley Crüe visited Germany, singer Vince Neil said the band couldn't figure out why "the crowds were chanting, Mutley Cruh! Mutley Cruh!"[3]
 
does anyone know how to do graphics (displaying windows) in python (linux)
 
uh, pygame?
pyglet?
 
oh thanks
 
PSA: New Charcoal version will support Mathematica-style recurring fraction conversion via FromDigits :D (not that anyone will use it)
 
12:47 AM
@ASCII-only example?
 
@Downgoat See cloud9
 
idk i can't access cloud9 after amazon invasion
 
Anyways imma leave now bye o/
 
@Downgoat :( really?
 
actually just log in
 
12:59 AM
pyglet is really weird o_O (0, 0) is in the bottom-left corner
 
there has to be some sort of setting to switch that
 
hopefully
 
stack overflow should be able to help
 
though I don't mind it this way for the most part. especially if I actually do anything with like graphing or stuff because then I have to do (x, y) => (width / 2 + x, height / 2 - y) and I always forget how to do it correctly
 
@ASCII-only I gave you the source already, and I already checked that the byte count was correct anyway.
 
1:07 AM
CMC: Given an array, keep only the highest values. example: [1, 4, 3, 5, 4, 5] => [5, 5]
 
@Downgoat Jelly, 2 bytes: fṀ
(literally "filter to keep maximum")
 
@Neil Oh yeah I know why, I forgot to mention the compression uses the lowest base possible
Since ? is later in the codepage than any of the other characters, the base has to be increased
 
? is later in the codepage than h?
 
@Downgoat python 3, 33 bytes: lambda x:[max(x)]*x.count(max(x))
shorter than the list comprehension i got
 
@Neil well, after it's rearranged so characters are as low on the codepage as possible
after thinking about it I should be optimizing for lowest base instead >_>
 
1:16 AM
well, you've lost me again
 
The codepage is broken into lowercase, uppercase, symbols, whitespace and numeric
Those sections are currently rearranged so the most used sections are placed earlier
 
hey all... trying to get an if/elsif/else in python all on one line... is that possible?
 
@AllenJ.Fisher sort of
i don't think with that exact syntax though
what exactly are you trying to do?
 
Yeah I've been futzing around with different syntaxes
my solution has an if/elsif/else in it
 
you could use a list and the fact you can do arithmetic with booleans to index into the list
 
1:28 AM
yeah true... thanks... I'll play around with that
I was already taking advant
advantage of lists
 
so what is the if elsif else statement you were doing?
 
if int(e)>=len(d):s+=int(d)
elif int(e)==0:s+= 0
else:s += int(d[0:int(e)])
There's probably a way to do this, but I'm not coming up with it.
 
@Downgoat Haskell: filter.(==)=<<maximum
 
s+= [yourvalues][(int(e)<len(d))+bool(e)]
i think?
wait
you can use slicing for all of these
 
1:33 AM
I'm already plying with slicing a bit... just not good at it yet
that's a good thought
 
"0123"[0:0] = ""
 
ah yes
 
or can you
yep you can
no indexing errors
"0123"[0:9] = "0123"
in fact
 
was just about to test that
 
"0123"[:whatever] works as well
golfy python slicing
 
1:36 AM
lolz
Thanks!
 
@DestructibleLemon *==
 
@ASCII-only sure
@ASCII-only **=
 
@DestructibleLemon You can't assign to string :P
 
@ASCII-only fine
@ASCII-only also you can't multiply strings or exponentiate
how about a cops and robbers about a quine that can be outputted by a smaller program
 
1:51 AM
@Downgoat e=>e.Where(i=>i==e.Max())
 
2:18 AM
How does one do zip[0..] golfily in python?
 
@WheatWizard 0..?
 
It's the list of all the integers greater than -1
turns out enumerate is the function I want
 
2:40 AM
what the frick why aren't my cylinders being sorted properly
 
Sorting cylinders?
 
they seem to be sorted properly but they aren't being painted in the proper sorted order for some reason. and it isn't z fighting or something because they aren't close enough for that
 
@DestructibleLemon maybe they're sorted in reverse
@DestructibleLemon screenshot pls
 
it's not that
I think its somehow related to this code that shouldn't work and should give an out of index error but attempting to fix it gives an out of index error
very confusing
 
@DestructibleLemon pls don't rubberduck debug in TNB
 
2:46 AM
oh right

 Rubber Duck Debugging

For people who find rubber duck debugging to be a very effecti...
 
because nobody has any idea what you're talking about >_>
 
Rubber Duck Debugging? What is that?
 
@Zacharý talking to virtual rubber ducks to solve your bugs
 
@ASCII-only ?!
 
@Zacharý Some people find that when struggling with a problem, it helps to talk about it to yourself.
 
2:48 AM
Ah. QUACK
Honestly, Dyalog would find this method useful, they'd add another duck to their massive collection
 
Generally this is done by placing a rubber duck in front of yourself and talking to it.
 
I'll stick to sticking print statements everywhere.
 
@user202729 Just published my first draft. github.com/DennisMitchell/ffi
I'll probably add it to TIO tomorrow.
 
Print debugging is a terrible method and I absolutely love doing it.
7
 
And it doesn't work at all in C.
 
2:58 AM
@Dennis What?
 
@ATaco It is the only debugging method I use
Unless I'm testing JS using Chrome DevTools
 
@Zacharý The C compiler is free to move your print statements around as long as this wouldn't change the behavior of a well-defined program. There's no guarantee that it will be executed where you put it, especially if your program is buggy.
 
Well screw C.
 
Sure.
 
(I'm joking, ofc)
 
3:02 AM
@Dennis Practically speaking, with -O0, would it generally work?
 
I thought I could destroy the Short Line Quine challenge with RProgN2's short as hell quines, then I saw a 0 line length answer.
 
@Pavel More often than not, yes.
@ATaco :D
 
I'm changing from pygame to pyglet now
or soon anyway... i might be doing other things soon
 
I can do L=1 in 18 bytes, and probably can get smaller than that.
Scratch that, 15 bytes.
 
anyone have experience with pyglet?
 
3:15 AM
Oh, someone already dominated the L = 1 quines with RProgN, using the quine I thought was not considered cheating.
 
3:34 AM
so uh... can you even draw ellipses with pyglet? I haven't found anything on it yet...
 
@DestructibleLemon quartata already told you iirc?
@DestructibleLemon gluDisk
 
oh ok
it doesn't mention it in primitives
 
@DestructibleLemon Yeah, because ellipses aren't primitives in GL
They're not exact either
 
why though
 
Because GL surfaces are made of triangles?
Like normal 3D programs?
 
3:36 AM
@ASCII-only goddamn i've had it with inexact ellipses always hanging off of the cylinders
@ASCII-only but its in 2d...
 
@DestructibleLemon GL is a 3D rendering program...
 
it also has 2d
 
@DestructibleLemon but you can use gluCylinder and not worry about any 3D
 
i don't want that
 
Okay then
@DestructibleLemon You're supposed to set it to a reasonable number, this is so you can make it lower if say you wanted to decrease graphics quality for it to run on lower-end computers
 
3:40 AM
Please move to rubber duck room or something
 
there's not even rubber duck though
it's just talking about opengl
 
3:50 AM
@downgoat Did you still want a github for the Mathjax generator?
 
nah
but [feature-request]: MathQuill for mathjax renderer
 
Hmm...
I might just make an alternate version using MathQuill
 
4:35 AM
oh god I just found out that I can resize my windows to about 4 times my screen size lol
 
How, and what OS/DE?
 
After reading 20 questions on softwareengineering.se, I've decided that "readability" is a concept created by people who can't read code. they say that simple nested ternaries are "unreadable". I am confused greatly by the "readable" community
@Dennis coudln't you put a fflush statement and ensure the print statement is executed in place?
 
Nester ternaries are a PITA to read
 
return ((decimal)CostIn > 0 && CostOut > 0) ?
       100 * ( (decimal)CostOut - (decimal)CostIn ) / (decimal)CostOut:
       0;
whitespace aside, do you think that this is "unreadable"?
 
4:49 AM
imo it's immediately clear as to what this is doing
 
a but too clear :P
 
yet:
I don't find this readable at all. — Almo Jan 7 '17 at 14:06
 
but.
there are no tested ternaries
wat
 
well that's an example
actually I said the wrong word
*nontrivial ternaries
 
i use those all the time in Python lol
it's perfectly readable IMO, even if it used conventional notation
 
casual. I once made a program with function names that were literally hundreds of chars long each :P
 
@Doorknob We should all email him complaints
 
why the thin image :/
also he used the argument for the second function which makes it sound weird
@Pavel And representations of Lenguage programs
 
(... I think Doorknob intentionally made it not one-box)
 
@allquixotic Ninja'd
@HyperNeutrino Doorknob, not Dj
 
5:10 AM
hm? that's what I said this whole time
 
@Pavel Doorjnob
 
.oO(I realized I pronounce in my head Doorknob, the username, as Dork-nob, but Doorknob, the word, as Dor-nob, and I'm not sure why)
 
DJMcKnobHem
question: how do I find RIMM:US historical charts (like all the way back to IPO) o_O need it for business class but I can't find it anywhere
 
or the Norse pronunciation of Djoornob, I guess?
@HyperNeutrino rimm?
 
@ASCII-only RIMM:US
 
5:23 AM
@HyperNeutrino :/ why did you choose RIMM
 
@ASCII-only I didn't choose ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
oh well whatever it's for bonus credit and I don't even care anymore :/ whatever
wait found something that might work :D
 
@HyperNeutrino link? also for these kinds of things the school should normally provide some kind of software that has the data i think?
 
ir.rim.com/… should work
and well like idk ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ what school should do isn't usually a meaningful thing to discuss
 
If it's an extra credit assignment the school doesn't really need to do anything to make completing the assignment easier. If students do it, good for them, but there's not a loss to them if they can't.
 
nvm doesn't work well enough for me
not enough info
whatever it's just bonus and i honestly don't care enough to spend more time on it
 
5:35 AM
@HyperNeutrino I don't think it's actually doable
 
maybe not. watch it be a trick question and just anyone that submits anything is faking it xDDD (don't think my teacher would do that :P)
 
 
1 hour later…
7:00 AM
CMP: Should an expression with one or more unknown variables stringify itself when run
 
@ASCII-only Huh? Example?
 
wait, is that even possible >_>
@Pavel e.g. a*x^2 should stay the same? or become "a*x^2"
 
@ASCII-only It should either error or stay as-is allowing for symbolic manipulation
 
@Pavel I need some way to prevent an infinite loop though. It currently checks type, should I add a different type that means it's been run already?
 
@ASCII-only I think you should let sympy handle it
 
7:05 AM
@Pavel But I'm not using sympy
 
In that case, it should NameError
 
@Pavel what if it's meant to be possible to print an expression with one or more unknown vairables
 
I think you should just put quote marks around it
If you're going to do something with manipulating undefined variables, sympy is the way to go
 
@Pavel This is for an interpreter
It would be 1. unreadable and 2. not easy to get the original expression to do that
 
Do you need to get the original expression? If I do 2+2, I don't expect there to be a way to get 2+2 back from 4.
 
7:10 AM
@Pavel As in I don't have any strings
 
._. why not
 
@Pavel Because they're already objects
 
 
1 hour later…
8:31 AM
CMC: Find a language in which the most recent XKCD is valid.
You can ignore the last two lines.
 
@EsolangingFruit Whoa, now I'm wondering if Randall Munroe has a secret account on PPCG. Probably not, because then he'd know that it's called "code bowling" and not "reverse code golf".
 
So we're looking for a language that (1) has a syntax like that of Python but (2) uses define instead of def and (3) allows identifiers to be split on whitespace.
 
@EsolangingFruit I'm not sure about 3. It could be that the cartoon shows an editor which wraps long lines as hanging indent.
 
@Adám Okay, so we now have a new task: find an editor that (1) is code-aware (i.e. supports syntax highlighting) but (2) wraps identifiers (with correct indentation) and (3) has support for said language.
 
@EsolangingFruit Whitespace?
 
8:40 AM
@Fatalize No, it actually contains a malformed command. Can't you tell?
 
@Zacharý We already do this. Why do you think we have so many rubber ducks? Seriously though, we do, and we do use real rubber ducks on occasion.
 
@EsolangingFruit Foo >_>
 
*valid and does the same thing
if you can't decide what that means, I will decide for you
 
i.e. error because of unmatched parenthetical
 
 
1 hour later…
10:07 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Jo KingThe cell at the end of the rainbow brainfuck code-golf We all know of, or at least have heard of, brainfuck, one of the most famous and influential esotoric languages. While these days most implementations use an infinite tape, the original compiler by Urban Müller has a tape of 30000 cells. A l...

 
 
2 hours later…
12:23 PM
Anyone interested in testing Pepe?
 
ಠ_ಠ It should be called Rere instead :p
 
@Mr.Xcoder Haha.
but actually, it's based on a meme (idk even if I can call it a meme...?)
You might have seen posts including something like "REEEEE"
 
\o/ There is now an xkcd about code-golf code-bowling.
 
@Mr.Xcoder The title is "Code Golf".
 
12:30 PM
Yeah I know but the meme text is anything but code-golf :P
 
12:45 PM
Should I use if the challenge's subject is one of complex maths, but the challenge doesn't actually involve handling any complex numbers?
 
@Adám I believe that tag is specifically meant for challenges involving complex numbers. I might be wrong though
Also g'morning everyone o/
 
\o Hi
 
@J.Sallé Yeah, well, but does the challenge involve complex numbers or not, that's the question.
 
@Adám Yes.
 
12:49 PM
I'm letting complex numbers be represented as (Re,Im) tuples. So a matrix is a 3D array.
 
@Adám I'd say yes
IMO you're handling complex numbers, just not with conventional notation, nor with the builtin language support
 
@Mr.Xcoder btw there's a star by Doorknob about the comic...
 
I saw.
 
@ASCII-only Right. I'm hoping to give languages with no complex number support a chance. (And Mathematica's built-in won't do the job on its own.)
 
@Adám Ah I see.
 
1:07 PM
0
Q: Hermitian matrix?

AdámNote that this challenge requires no handling or understanding of complex numbers. Given a square matrix where every element is a two-element (Re,Im) integer list, determine whether this represents a Hermitian matrix. Note that the input is a 3D array of real numbers; not a 2D array of complex ...

 
BMO
Hey guys!
About this sandboxed post, there's a dispute about whether it qualifies as a duplicate or not. I left two comments to vote and would be glad if some of you could leave your opinion there.
 
Both have +1 now.
 
BMO
Yeah, I noticed that ^^
Maybe with some more time there's a more clear picture
+2/+1 (or +1/+2) wouldn't be enough to decide either, I guess.
 
> $ Combine the three links to the left into a monadic chain.
Interesting feature.
 
so kind of like Jelly $ but combining more links?
 
1:21 PM
(that is Jelly $) (source)
 
isn't jelly $ combiner for 2 links o_O
 
O_o
Alright, would that even be possible to combine 3 links?
Jelly doesn't support "triads", right?
 
might have to do with FCCs or something like that, idk
@labela--gotoa two-link combiner doesn't make a dyad, it makes a monad (there's another one that makes a dyad). it's just fg$ -> (x => g(f(x)))
 
Jelly has some easter eggs in its implementations.
 
but you are right, triads aren't a thing (though they can be simulated using quicks in some cases)
 
1:29 PM
@HyperNeutrino Only if f and g are both monads. Otherwise monadic tacit rules apply.
 
@HyperNeutrino I know, but itself would become a triad as it would need 3 arguments
 
Yay Charcoal now has super hacky symbolic formula printing
 
@labela--gotoa Quicks can take an arbitrary number of arguments because they're entirely postfix, not infix.
 
Looking at the starboard... Fractran is now on TIO.
 
1:30 PM
uhh, ok...?
 
Example: fg$ has $ as the quick and it takes the two arguments before itself (f and g)
 
JS is weird. I've got 2 arrays, stack and other, now when I do stack.push it doesn't push to stack, but to other O.o
 
abc? is a ternary that is basically a if c else b
@labela--gotoa uhhhhhhh send code? that sounds weird even for JS
 
@labela--gotoa You're probably doing something wrong. Like stack.push = other.push.bind(other)
 
@HyperNeutrino I know, well, maybe it's not a clear array, but my own object that imitates it, but that shouldn't make a difference .-.
 
1:32 PM
oh in that case I might have some idea what's wrong. can you send code?
 
@labela--gotoa If you did other = stack or vice versa then they're probably the same object, just in case you did that
 
but I didn't .-.
wait, there's something weird going on in my code
 
@labela--gotoa Then you probably messed up your constructor, or the way you made your class
 
No, wait
I'm analysing it .-.
Looks like must had messed something up...? It's in source of Pepe, when I do `rEEEEE rEEEEE REEEEE reEEEE`, then debugger shows `[0][1]` and should show `[1][0]`.

reEEE does the correct operation, (stack.pop()%other.pop()) but pushes to other
it's only reproducible on my local, unpushed git
 
well can you branch it off and show us code?
 
1:36 PM
wait, I'm trying stuff
 
Or at least gist it
if you're not explaining yet pls go talk in rubber duck ty
 
Ok... this is now really weird
 
(pls talk to rubber ducks or send code)
 
I'm just doing the stuff
I just wanted to analyse when exactly does it happen
 

 Rubber Duck Debugging

For people who find rubber duck debugging to be a very effecti...
 
1:41 PM
https://github.com/Soaku/Pepe/tree/modulo Ok... now there is it, you'll have to download the code, because GitHub Pages doesn't seem to support branches (?)...

It's reproducible only when using the 2-value modulo command, `EEeEeE` which is made just as every other command...
Sample Pepe code: rEEEEE rEEEEE REEEEE rEEeEeE (2%1), which should result in [0][], results in [][0]
 
which line is modulo implemented on
 
@labela--gotoa Just use rawgit then...
 
var t = this;
...seriously?
 
1:44 PM
yes :P
to prevent the always-possible JS this errors
you can never be sure what JS does with this .-.
 
How is that going to help?
Seriously if you don't know what a language will do, you don't have solid knowledge of that language.
(as with me and Jelly)
 
@labela--gotoa and when do this errors ever happen?
 
@labela--gotoa your modulo case doesn't have a break statement
 
@ASCII-only very often for me... this changes very often...
 
so then rEEEEEEE moves the stack element over to other
 
1:46 PM
@HyperNeutrino omg
 
ecks
dee
 
I'm stupid
 
I saw case statements and I was like "I wonder if they forgot one of the breaks :P"
 
Godot Engine doesn't require break, it uses continue instead :P
 
uh what
 
1:47 PM
YES
 
but it's not continuing the switch, it's breaking out of it
 
You don't need to use break, if you want to pass to next case you use continue
 
oh ok
so instead of <blank>/break it's continue/<blank>
 
@labela--gotoa *you use nothing at all...
hang on what is this
 
@ASCII-only talking about godot engine
 
1:48 PM
That did work
 
thanks so much guys
 
Always the biggest errors are caused by the tiniest mistakes :P
 
oh yeah, one more thing
if you do var t = this; one line before you use it, and in the same scope you're basically doing nothing useful...
argh that bold was too much
 
1:50 PM
Are you doing that just to circumvent the fact that this looks at the most deeply nested scope for the reference?
I'm pretty sure there's a better way of getting the this-reference of something higher up
 
@HyperNeutrino var self = this in the scope of something higher up
that does nothing at all
 
ok yeah that's true
 
I'm sure one day Charcoal will be nothing more than a spaghetti bowl of features
99% of which are absolutely useless
 
many have said that, but there will always be the "one time that feature beat them all"
 
O_o wolfram is only 2k lines
 
1:57 PM
Your implementation of wolfram?
It's certainly non exhaustive.
 
Yeah, since it's nowhere near finished
I'm just surprised that it does a decent amount of things for 2k lines
 

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