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4:07 PM
7
Q: Dennis number 2.0

DJMcMayhemPPCG user and elected mod, @Dennis just became the second ever user to earn over 100k rep! This is a totally original idea, that I did not get from anybody else, but let's make a challenge based of his user ID, 12012. Looking at it, you'll notice that there are two distinct "sections" to his ...

 
-1 not enough jQuery — Awal Garg Sep 26 at 17:50
it's the most updooted comment o____________O
 
@betseg That would make each second 0.864 times as long as they are currently.
 
Wow, 11 points in 30 minutes. That's got to be a record for me
 
@orlp That is super cool.
 
@El'endiaStarman you mean 1.15(740) times longer?
 
4:21 PM
@betseg No. A day is currently 86,400 seconds (ignoring the minor variations and corrections), and your proposal would make them 100,000 seconds.
 
Ah right sorry
 
@Dennis Congratulations on your 100k! :) Now let us rule PPCG together as father and son!
22
(or something)
 
@Sherlock9 @Adnan @Lynn @MartinEnder Thanks! :)
 
@Dennis Can I congratulate you on behalf of all the other PPCGers, and thus get thousands of thanks in return? :P
 
^ - congrats
 
4:27 PM
Woot!
 
@El'endiaStarman Thank you 42,021 times. :P
 
@Mego I always considered Google to be basically the modern equivalent of Bell Labs
CMC: Find a mainstream language that is actually good that was originally designed by more than 3 people
The only two I've found so far are C# and Erlang, and I consider them exceptions (considering the number of languages designed by more than 3 that are super bad)
Erlang was such a specific use case and C# was basically just based on Java which in turn was designed by one person
 
cheddar?
 
1 person, Downgoat
 
@quartata Mars Ultor?
 
4:32 PM
ASCII-only and Conor also co-designed cheddar
 
That makes 2 persons.
 
I'm talking about design not implementation
Downgoat created the design goals he wanted for it long before
 
@quartata F# ?
 
@TimmyD Ah, good one. All the sharps qualify, really
Interesting.
 
@quartata C# is better than Java though, so that should give it some credit?
 
4:33 PM
Oh, sure. I'm not saying it's bad just that a lot of the design came from Java
 
right, but I mean the multi-person team improved on the single-person design
 
@quartata I'm going to go with... Julia?
 
I thought Julia was 2 people?
 
What about Go and Rust? I don't know either really, so I can't say how good they really all, whether you'd call them mainstream and how many people actually worked on their design.
 
Dunno, Wiki lists 4
 
4:35 PM
@MartinEnder Go is super bad IMO. It's actually why I thought of this
 
ಠ_ಠ
 
close call, Lua (3 designers, not more than 3)
 
I was thinking about why Go and Dart were bad and it occurred to me that I couldn't really name a language developed by a large team that was good
@MartinEnder Haskell was also 3 originally I think which was why I made it more than 3
@Sp3000 Huh, close...
I still think it fits with the "very small team" though
 
Pytek has like 1.5 designers. :P I'm the main designer, but quartata contributes a lot too.
 
@MartinEnder A lot of this was implementation improvements IMO
 
4:38 PM
Well, maybe 1.75 designers.
 
@El'endiaStarman And the reason why it's good so far is because we both have very similar focuses. I think it starts to break down for large teams because everyone injects something different
That was the conclusion I came to after thinking about it at least lol
 
Hmm. I'm stumped. Trying to golf this thing down and can't figure out why m=m<0&l>=d?t:m; t=d<l?t+d:d; l=d<l|n>9?d:l; is not equivalent to if(d<l){l=d;t+=d;}else{m=m<0?t:m;l=n>9?d:l;t=d;}
 
@quartata Yeah, that sounds about right.
 
"Why is it that Google is good at writing everything but programming languages"
 
@Geobits is everything integers?
 
4:40 PM
I'm sure it's something simple, but I'm just not seeing it.
@MartinEnder Yes, all ints
 
the result of m is irrelevant for d<l or does m need to be unchanged?
 
m should be unchanged if d<l
 
@orlp Damn
 
@Geobits I think your l>=d looks wrong
should probably be either l>d or l<=d
 
Depending on who you ask... maybe Racket?
 
4:42 PM
@MartinEnder Eh, why not? Out of all the benevolent dictators I could pick, I'd choose you guys. :P
 
@MartinEnder Oh jeez. I knew it was something basic. Thanks!
 
no problem :)
 
@Sp3000 Racket is a better implementation of the design goals of Scheme
 
I'm currently waiting for Visual Studio to uninstall, so I didn't have anything better to do anyway :D
 
which was 2 people
 
4:44 PM
if (usp == "141"
      || usp == "251"
      || usp == "140"
      || usp == "171"
      || usp == "250"
      || usp == "249")
This code runs in a loop. Is there some clever way in JS to shorten this, whilst keeping the short-circuit execution order?
 
Switch with fall-through?
Hmm that wouldn't short-circuit would it
unless JS optimizes it
 
I can't rely on that.
We are talking IE11 here :/
 
I think the answer is no then
 
@mınxomaτ is this for code golf or actual code? (which would determine the obscurity of solutions I'd look for...)
 
@mınxomaτ I've been looking for an answer to that question for 3 years
 
4:46 PM
@MartinEnder prod, but obscure is fine.
For a bookmarklet to be precise.
 
Oh, wait. Does in work with arrays in ES5?
Or is that an ES6 thing
 
Hmm, I wonder if Python short-circuits in...
 
@quartata I think it's ES5... but...
 
@El'endiaStarman I can't imagine any sane implementation not doing it
@ETHproductions You could always do .indexOf I guess
 
> 1 in [3, 4, 5]
< true
> 1 in [1]
< false
 
4:48 PM
@ETHproductions Ah, so it's indexes
 
It checks if the array has property 1
 
Because they're properties. How stupid
 
yep.
But yeah, ["141", "251", "140", "171", "250", "249"].indexOf(isp) !== -1 might work better.
 
@quartata Actually, it's kinda impossible to test in Python. Lists are evaluated before in is checked.
 
@ETHproductions Well, ~ can replace the !== -1
 
4:50 PM
Though maybe if I tried testing with [1]+[0]*1000000...
 
Of course, Firefox 1.5 and below don't support .indexOf()
 
@ETHproductions How on earth
 
But who would use Firefox 1.5 nowadays? :P
 
> added support for restricted words as properties
why
 
shrug
I guess they had some people whining that they needed a property called if or something
 
4:53 PM
That kind of whining can be dealt with using a slingshot though.
 
or a hammer
 
@Geobits I tried that once, but I ended up having to buy a new computer
never again
 
Reminds me of the time I set up a facebook account for my goldfish. It was an unmitigated disaster.
 
if(~["141","251","140","171","250","249"].indexOf(usp))window.location=eurl
Eh, good enough.
 
quality
 
4:56 PM
@Geobits Now I have to know why your goldfish needed a facebook account
 
CMC: Figure out where http://enwp.org/WP:SI redirects to without visiting it
 
@ETHproductions You tell me why anyone needs one, then I'll get back to you.
 
@mınxomaτ Are you sure this isn't code golf
 
Bookmarklets are basically code golf.
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ Obviously a Wikipedia policy page. Lemme try to remember, it's been so long....
Oh, right!
Sockpuppets
 
4:57 PM
yup
This page is for requesting that we investigate whether two or more Wikipedia accounts are being abusively operated by the same person. Before opening an investigation, you need good reason to suspect sock puppetry. Evidence is required. When you open the investigation, you must immediately provide evidence that the suspected sock puppets are connected. The evidence will need to include diffs of edits that suggest the accounts are connected. (This requirement is waived if the edits in question are deleted; in this case just provide the names of the articles that both have been editing.) You must...
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ I tried using view-source:, but that just redirected me to the source for the Wikipedia policy page
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ CMC: Determine whether anyone cheated on that CMC
 
I couldn't remember at first because usually people refer to it as WP:SPI
 
@Geobits Yes.
Did i win?
 
Nope. I don't believe you.
 
4:59 PM
@Geobits ;_;
 
You don't seem like the cheating type is all :P
And nobody else around here would either, that's for sure ;)
 
Any last input on this sandboxed challenge? I think it's about ready to post
 
Something I've been mulling over recently: classifying and/or creating a taxonomy of game mechanics. I think this blog post took a good stab at it, but I think I can do better, in part by seeking to go all the way to the very bedrock. This bedrock is, in my opinion, that games are performing actions in a space. Thoughts?
 
> This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title Template:Disambiguation‌​.
 
@ETHproductions ELEMENOPEE
 
5:01 PM
I'm also considering making a chat room to talk about that, but mostly only if others are interested in really boiling down and differentiating the core elements of game mechanics.
 
Putting the page name in a template somewhere ridicules.
 
@El'endiaStarman without having read that post, it sounds like a fun project, and reducing it to a formalised core sounds like an interesting idea :)
 
@betseg ?
 
The one thing I'm not sure about is if it will get downvoted or closed as too trivial, or closed as a duplicate. The kolmogorov-complexity challenge space is already pretty full
 
5:04 PM
@El'endiaStarman What does "in a space" mean? If we're playing HiLo (guess the number), is that a space?
 
@zyabin101 you know that song?
 
@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ What's it? :3
 
@ETHproductions Then again, several respected users have commented that they think the challenge is good, so I guess I'll just have to trust them...
 
@ETHproductions I don't see the appeal in it personally, but I feel the same way about many [kol-com].
 
zee or zed?
 
5:10 PM
There is no zed. There is only zi.
 
Zed > Zi
 
Besides, the song doesn't rhyme with zed unless you also say ved for V.
 
can anyone here french? :3
11 hours ago, by Downgoat
This is a bit of a homework question but when refering to the verb "etre" itself in french, do I use masculine or feminine form of ce?
 
@Geobits The space there are the possible numbers, and the action is guessing it.
Hmm. Feedback also needs to be part of the formula.
 
Fair enough. I thought that's what you were going for, but I wanted to make sure.
 
5:13 PM
CMC: Name the template that the url enwp.org/T:DAB refers to without entering it.
 
No
 
@Geobits you don't? D:
 
@Downgoat We previously had the "Le Dix-Neuvieme Byte", but it's frozen.
 
Also I have a question about our policy for what counts as programming languages
 
@Downgoat I don't understand your question
 
5:15 PM
The most upvoted answer says:
> Support a representation of natural numbers and of tuples. (We're talking about languages rather than implementations, so we will leave to one side the issue of type widths).
 
@MartinEnder back in my grandfather's day, they pronounced G and P "jed" and "ped"
 
@MartinEnder Not normally. Every now and and then I spell my name out ged ed od bed id ted sed though, so I guess that counts.
 
but most languages just add primality checking and adding and that cuts it?
 
I guess you could call it Pig British.
 
@Fatalize I want to say "this is etre" for french HW. Not sure if i need to use c'est etre or ceci est etre or cela est etre.
 
5:17 PM
@zyabin101 lol
 
@Downgoat "C'est le verbe être" is the most natural way
 
oh ok
then this will not fit into song
 
lol
 
wat
 
Your homework is to write a song in French?
 
5:18 PM
@El'endiaStarman I love game design, and talking about it. If you were to make a chat room about game design, I would happily chat in there
 
^ me too
 
"c'est l'verb'être" with contractions to reduce syllables
 
@Geobits I have to write song about verbs with être in passe compmose.
 
Would "Now I know my ABCs, won't you come and golf with me?" be a better title than "Do you know your ABCs?" (referring to this challenge again)
It's a little long
 
I think it's hilarious that our chat culture is big enough to create side rooms that would be the main room on a different site just because there are enough users interested in X topic
 
5:19 PM
:)
 
@downrep_nation hi!
 
@Downgoat Pretty ridiculous assignment
 
ikr
 
hey there ;)
 
@DJMcMayhem I know, right? My room list has been slowly creeping up in size lately.
 
5:20 PM
@Downgoat pls. I have on-topic question about site
 
But you asked it in the middle of the French lesson :P
 
:|
 
@downrep_nation hi
 
i need 3 updoots until 1337 rep
 
@betseg downvote
 
5:21 PM
-1 for updoot
 
;)
 
@zyabin101 will downgoat your answers until i reach 1297 :p
 
Good luck not getting that reverted ;)
 
I suppose it's not too too long
 
@betseg I joked :P
 
5:23 PM
@ETHproductions what is this?
@ETHproductions I think the latter is best, I like the longer one but it's pretty long
 
@Downgoat My challenge (I might change the name)
 
@zyabin101 see? stepping back
 
@ETHproductions dream, baby.
 
@zyabin101 haha :P I only picked that slot because it was right next to the other long challenge name
and it was already
 
51 answer - 30 upvotes - 3k viewers
 
5:25 PM
@ETHproductions Is that the userscript design? I never knew the tags looked so... eye-grabbing.
 
@Geobits Yup. Why, is it not enough to make your eyes hurt? If so, we're not doing our job
 
@Geobits you'll get used to them :P
I couldn't find any better color-combo
 
The bright green makes the text anti-alias a bit oddly, at least in that screenshot.
And, you know, it's bright :P
 
challange idea: create random proper bf code
 
5:29 PM
@betseg -[+++<<->+]++.
 
:/
 
@ETHproductions ...using a programming language
 
@Geobits I saw TIO handles plurality of character-count correctly, that's a nice feature
 
@betseg return"-[+++<<->+]++";
 
5:32 PM
1 character(s)
 
@Geobits is that better ^^
 
Any last votes? @Downgoat (if you haven't voted)
 
> Made my English gooder
3
lol
 
@Downgoat It's hard to tell super-zoomed like that. It'd have to be on the page layout to know for sure.
 
> random
plz
 
5:33 PM
I'm confused. How do I vote for being a robot?
 
@Dennis Don't do that. We don't want them to have an accurate count before the revolution.
 
+1 for including the CAPTCHA in that one too.
 
I can't program from my phone so I kinda skip the party. :{
 
How do I force a file download from a link in pure JS? All SO posts I find are about HTML elements / forms. Is there a way to do this without creating an element and clicking it?
 
5:35 PM
@Dennis I'm glad it made someone laugh. I usually make my self-edit summaries pretty random and silly
A common one I use is "Hurr-Durr, I done a typo"
 
Looks like the longer one won, Juan
> The question you're asking appears subjective and is likely to be closed.
 
Hurr Durr I'ma Sheep
name of Linux 4.0.0
 
@Geobits
 
@ETHproductions Seems like it won five to two, too.
 
did you vote just so you could say that? :P
 
5:39 PM
@Downgoat Much better imo
 
+1 wow, interesting challenge — Chatgoat Jan 19 at 1:18
rofl
 
@ETHproductions I definitely didn't turn my mobile wifi off so I could get around the IP-check to vote again.
 
@Dennis Wow, I need to step up my game, haha
BTW, how do you like your challenge?
 
5:41 PM
It's nice. :) Too bad someone beat me to the Jelly answer. :P
 
Maybe you should do a hexagony answer. Those are always well received
 
hexagony = automatic rip
 
RIP Martin
 
hahahaha
 
I liked the retina answer. Too bad it got deleted
 
5:43 PM
Haven't quite wrapped my head around Hexagony yet. I should probably start with an easier 2D language.
 
Befunge is quite easy to understand
 
Cubix looks really cool
 
Btw @ETH, do all these strawpolls wrt the ABC's challenge mean we should expect it soon?
 
Posting it now, unless anyone has any objections
(and there was only one, afaicr)
 
I think it looks great
 
5:45 PM
I object!
 
Your vote doesn't count :P
 
@ETHproductions yes, I need to fix array -> string casting in cheddar
 
My only objection is that I haven't added a way to insert the whole alphabet in V yet
 
You both have 5 minutes ;P
 
;_;
 
5:46 PM
But seriously, how long do you think it will take each of you to implement those things?
 
:D:D:D the logy interpreter work
 
@ETHproductions about 5-10 minutes (assuming IDE loads in time and node does not do a stupid)
 
Neither would really be competing anyway. You can't add features or fix things just based on sandbox entries either imo.
 
(well, i still need to make the clauses working, but :D)
 
@Geobits array -> string casting doesn't seem challenge-specific
 
5:47 PM
Welcome to the Enterprise. I'm Chief Engineer Geordi La Forge. I'll be your
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■■■
(⌐■■■)
Super Visor.
♫YEEEEEAAAAAHHHHHHHH!♫
 
@Geobits Well this isn't specific to the challenge. It's in the spec if you'd like a link
 
@ETHproductions Not very long. :P
 
(source: at-tjhansen on twitter)
 
@DJMcMayhem hmmmm
 
5:48 PM
I'm just saying. A challenge author giving you time to fix/add it isn't fair to others who happen to not be in chat imo.
 
@ETHproductions ?!
 
@Geobits :/ ok true
 
@Geobits Oh I know, I specified that you can print any valid local time for countries that have more than one timezone
 
@ETHproductions Geobits is right. giving me extra time to fix is unfair
 
yeah...
Posting it now then
 
5:49 PM
I don't care if it is competing or not, so I'll just follow the general advice/opinions of you folks in chat
 
@DJMcMayhem Yeah, I think it would be fair to mark your V answer as non-competing
 
No porbs. @Dennis could to pull V?
 
> Already up-to-date.
Did you forget to push?
 
No, I committed on github
 
@Dennis Could you please pull 05AB1E?
 
5:55 PM
@DJMcMayhem Weird. Does the change work?
 
What's the most recent commit you have?
@Dennis no, it does not
 
@Adnan Done.
 
Thanks :)
 
$ tioupd V
From github.com/DJMcMayhem/V
   959a3d2..388c539  master     -> origin/master
Already up-to-date.
@DJMcMayhem ^ Not really sure what's going on.
 
That's weird, you have the latest change. It is a little cheap anyway, and I haven't tested it. I'll just do a vim answer
 

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