ohey @VTCAKAVSMoACE back to the original name!

:P

:O

WELCOME BACK! WE'VE MISSED YOU!

Thanks for the help @El'endiaStarman and @QPaysTaxes

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Vintage Trench Coat Also Known As VSMoACE?

\o/ shortest python answer!

valid at least, 42 byte one fails.

@Sherlock9 You've decided on your topic?

@zyabin101 yeaj

Oh one of my ideas was to create a programming language with ease-of-use as its main principle

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ He was @CoolestVeto y'know.

@El'endiaStarman No I haven't, but I wanted to thank you anyway

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You can save 3 bytes in whitespace.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ That was an imposter.

@Sherlock9 That's basically what I'm doing with Pytek! :P

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino whatever do you mean? :P

BAI

I'm partially kidding because Pytek is meant to be more than just easy-to-use, but still.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ bai

That's why I mentioned it again

@El'endiaStarman If it doesn't have a builtin for each challenge on this site, I wont use it.

I wanted to get your view on it, since you're basically already implementing it

@Sherlock9 Ahhh, okay. Hmm. I'm not sure what specific sort of information you want.

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Also, technically that's a repl statement. It won't print outside of a repl.

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ You want a language with 7000 builtins?

@El'endiaStarman Hopefully more, but yeah of course not :P

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ bai

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino Can I mark it as python REPL, or need a print statement?

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ You need print.

okai

@El'endiaStarman Not sure what I'm looking for either :P

and you ninjaed me....

Hey, it's a slightly different approach. ;)

Mostly what problems were you trying to solve when writing Pytek

Like in Paul Graham's essay about what problems languages were built to solve

Well, for me specifically, Pytek solves (or rather, will solve) the problem of not having a single language that is good at abstract stuff (like Python) as well as graphics and interactivity (like Blitz 2D/3D), and it solves the problem of having to define my own functions many times for little things that I think should've been implemented already.

Mathematica? :3

Mathematica is good for math graphics/interactivity. Games? Not so much.

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino same, but with map.....

f=lambda j:[int(i)for i in''.join(str(i)for i in j).strip('0')]
print(f([0, 0, 0, 8, 1, 4, 3, 5, 6, 4, 1, 2, 10, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]))

Breaks for 10.

Mine had the same issue.

ohey you didn't have to delete

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino will die bai

fixed...

hm

what about

lambda j:[int(i)for i in''.join(str(i)for i in j).strip(', 0').strip('[0,')]

@quartata zo'oi #lojban se cmene la .iburycy. .i ji'a la'oi #ckule .e la'oi #jbosnu cu zasti

lojban fight!

(cmene's place structure is different than you think it is, and you need to use {zo'oI} to quote that)

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ f([0, 0, 0, 8, 1, 4, 3, 5, 6, 4, 1, 2, 10, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0]) == [8, 1, 4, 3, 5, 6, 4, 1, 2, 1, 0, 1].

Nope, still borked.

yeh

@quartata Experimental means they weren't in the original, first draft wordlist. They're still frequently used, though. ex. {kibro} is probably the most likely candidate right now for being added as a new, non-experimental word.

@AlexA. How to make avocado juic

not avocad juic Q_Q

@quartata .ua nai zo cadga na gismu

yes

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ lambda j:[int(x)for x in j[1:-1].strip(' 0,').split(', ')if int(x)].

@El'endiaStarman That helps. Thanks!

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino oooh

@Sherlock9 Welcome! :)

@QPaysTaxes Probably not. Is the first one the one that should be deleted?

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino doesn't work.

@El'endiaStarman For your games, will the save files be obfuscated to prevent cheating?

@Sherlock9 I'm not going to worry about cheating for a long time. :P

Alright, thanks again

And in any case, I doubt obfuscation will help.

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino fails for single length inputs.

@QPaysTaxes gone eleven

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Bleh. :(

Anything you give to a client, they can do whatever they want. That's why server-side validation is a must for any cheating-proof (relatively) game.

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino ikr

No, it works on single length.

nope

print(f('[6]')) -> [6].

>>> f=lambda j:[int(x)for x in j[1:-1].strip(' 0,').split(', ')if int(x)]
>>> f('[0]')

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<pyshell#3>", line 1, in <module>
    f('[0]')
  File "<pyshell#2>", line 1, in <lambda>
    f=lambda j:[int(x)for x in j[1:-1].strip(' 0,').split(', ')if int(x)]
ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: ''
>>>

only for single zeros, but still

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino

Ahhh, drat.

ikr

@Morgan'Venti'Thrappuccino also fails for [10]....

>.<

gives [1]

Yeah, I forgot that .strip('0, ') won't just strip that pattern, it'll remove all those chars.

@QPaysTaxes Sorry?

@QPaysTaxes Heheh, exactly. I blame the Python room.

@QPaysTaxes Wrong.

@QPaysTaxes Why do you say that?

We're only mean to stupid languages like JS. ;)

No, we have lots of exceptions.

@QPaysTaxes ಠ_ಠ

raise JSIsDumbException

^

I have two awesome dogs.

@QPaysTaxes I have 3 cute cats.

@Mego awwww @AlexA.

is not dog, but is cute

@Mego So you, the penguin, have a stuffed penguin and a cat.

coolio

A penguin owning a stuffed penguin seems... dark.

@QPaysTaxes I use Python and Ruby almost exclusively

@Dennis You mean like Goofy having Pluto as a pet? :P

Oh, Mego. I may not be able to write Seriously docs for a few weeks as I will be busy with IRL stuff

I do Python and Delphi.

Which is a great language, and a terrible one.

@Mego >.<

I would do more Ruby if I immediately understood the logic instead of having to first translate my logic into Python

@Mego A relative?

<(^v^)>

So you saved him?=)

@Sherlock9 Same

What a cutie=)

Does he have a name?

I just don't like Ruby's closure things.

  config.vm.provider "virtualbox" do |vb|
    vb.gui = false
  end

Bleh.

@QPaysTaxes I wouldn't mind them AS much if there was some "I'm starting a block" keyword.

  block config.vm.provider "virtualbox" do |vb|
    vb.gui = false
  end

I want something like that.

or with or something.

@Mego Your cat and penguin are very cute

That sounds even worse.

@ZachGates It's weird. Surely I should be able to transpile my ideas into some language other than my first programming language

@Sherlock9 Exactly same

s/exactly/mostly/

And I'm getting better at that with Ruby golfing, but since I don't practice with Ruby outside of golfing, my Ruby code is not getting much better

I may end up doing so. But I'm not sure I can do so in the twelve weeks I have left in this term

Well, language design isn't the same as language creation. Just one step

The end result of this class is the paper. I can use it for my thesis, though

But the paper itself should be handed in by the end-of-term exams in July

It is 3 am and I am sick. I am cutting myself off from the Internet until a more reasonable hour and getting some sleep. Good day, folks

@QPaysTaxes I should do that. Thanks!

@Sherlock9 night!

So it's apples to oranges when convenient for your argument I suppose

@Mego pics pls

If I compare the most popular Python implementation to the most popular Java implementation, I am comparing apples to oranges. But if I compare the popularity of PyPy to the popularity of HotSpot, you say its irrelevant.

You arbitrarily determine when my comparison is relevant

@Doorknob Ah, OK.

What does {kibro} mean?

@EasterlyIrk Internet

@Doorknob The dictionary said it was a gismu

I'd argue that the comparison is meaningful. Why is it meaningless?

Its meaningful because they are the most widely used implementations of each language.

But when it comes to KotHs, the only thing that matters is what the host chooses, right?

SO users aren't nearly as constructive in the comments as we are, wowza

Bots written by others should work regardless of how exactly a language is implemented, in general. Right?

Here's a challenge: find a benchmark that compares the Oracle JRE to PyPy or CPython, and I'll use it instead.

I'd prefer you found an already established one

I think you're biased

So you're going to download the one you had problems with (you said the code could have been optimized) on your own machine and do what with the results?

What criteria do you use to determine whether a particular aspect of a benchmark is significant? I'm just curious

@quartata rofl

Java and Python are named differently. That's obviously not significant. Java was using HotSpot and Python was using CPython. That triggered something in your brain. What is that something?

Is it the fact that a better implementation exists?

Okay but there is still a difference between HotSpot and PyPy. Again I ask you, what made that particular difference trigger you?

What specifically is your criteria for determining when to claim that the benchmark is poor?

Are you going to account for the differences after you run your HotSpot vs Jython test?

I referenced a benchmark and Mego is tearing it apart

Why aren't those choices significant?

"One factor dominates the benchmark; therefore, it is significant." is just a backwards thinking. That pretty much means it is impossible, in your mind, for one language to be significantly faster than another, because you'll just keep saying that the benchmark runner is comparing apples to oranges until the two runtime environments are almost the same.

I think using the two most popular implementations is the way to go.

@Mego So in other words, when I said "Is it the fact that a better implementation exists?" you could have just said "Yes."

If there's a way to remove them, it's significant. Otherwise, it's insignificant. That's your criteria?

Well, I edited my post to account for this anyway. I specified that the comparison was done using the most widely used runtime environment for each language.

@Mego I don't want to compare language design choices. I want to compare languages in the sense that most people use the term. I download the JDK and JRE from Oracle. I download CPython from Python.org. That's what most people running a KotH are going to do. Trust me - I ran a KotH where I had to download 20+ compilers, and I didn't have time to compare all of the alternative implementations. I needed an implementation that was well supported and easy to use.

It's comparing the implementations and the actual language design.

@Mego CPython has "nothing to do with" Python?

Isn't the Meta post in question about a single-language KotH?

Let's ask this: if you had to publish the result of a comparison between Java implementations and Python implementations, and you had to choose just one implementation, which one would you use and why? I guess there are multiple correct answers to that question. You would choose the two implementations with the fewest differences. I would choose the most widely used implementations. Neither of us is more right than the other.

So if you want to go post your own answer, go for it. I'm not going to start spouting off about logical fallacies in the comments of your answer, like you did on mine before you properly explained yourself.

You did call out a straw man argument just before you properly supported your first comment, did you not?

And if you had read about straw man arguments, you would know that they are not fallacious if the intent is to shift the burden of proof. They are fallacious when attempting to prove one's own point.

I must have the last word (now I'm done too)

I told my brother than a penguin on the Internet was impressed that his name was two slots away from a famous dead animator.

I brought it up real casual like

He liked it

@Mego pingu pingu

make it sound