The Nineteenth Byte

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Calvin's Hobbies

10:00 PM

@Dennis Not that actually

Beta Decay

So who has the (diamond shaped) conch?

Dennis

@Calvin'sHobbies OK, I'm intrigued. Don't worry, I won't actually change it.

Beta Decay

So @Dennis how many CnRs have you won so far? Or is it just both Two Makes a Differences?

Dennis

I did pretty good in the early Cops. Not so much in the Robbers.

Beta Decay

Cool :). How are you doing in the PLQ? I see you're a few cracks off Sp3000

Dennis

10:07 PM

I went through the old challenges and I seems to have won three of them.

This one informally:

Q: The Bowlers-Golfers Fraction War

Introduction Let's start by arranging all fractions from 0 to 1 in order of lowest denominator, then lowest numerator: 1/2, 1/3, 2/3, 1/4, 3/4, 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, 4/5, 1/6, 5/6, 1/7... Note that duplicates aren't counted, so I haven't listed 2/4, 2/6, 3/6, or 4/6, since they already appeared in th...

Beta Decay

I didn't really understand that challenge

Dennis

@BetaDecay I'm not sure if I'll keep trying to crack submissions. nimi's pretty much wore me out and I'm pretty PO'd that I tried the correct language but failed to append a newline...

Beta Decay

For a start, how did you generate the code?

@Dennis Well it was a valiant effort :D

Dennis

Do you know how Unary works?

Beta Decay

Yep

Basically the same thing?

Or were you interpreting it?

Dennis

10:10 PM

Same idea. I've converted CJam code (as a string) into a large number and then used a string of that many elements to represent it.

It was entertaining, but the scoring method was a bit broken.

Beta Decay

Ahh yeah. I get that. I did tried that method to obfuscate "Hello, World!"

That's why I didn't understand it, I didn't know how it was scored properly

trichoplax

I'd prefer to see unary used to represent a language without gaps (so all numbers correspond to a well-formed program) but I don't know how many languages that would be practical for.

Beta Decay

I think on the whole, Unary's a good idea but it's a shame that it's just a BF derivative

Dennis

I've heard Unary being called a lot of things, but never a good idea. :P

trichoplax

Martin Büttner

10:19 PM

@trichoplax you mean like the a Unary encoding of the number in MetaGolfScript?

Beta Decay

Actually no, Golunar is the good idea

Unary's just unnecessary

trichoplax

@MartinBüttner is that without gaps? I haven't looked into it

Martin Büttner

I think it's essentially Gödel numbering... the number is refers to the n'th valid GolfScript program.

Beta Decay

So the interpreter encodes every valid Golfscript program? Is that brute forced or hardcoded?

trichoplax

The numbers get so huge that I assume there's an expression for it

That's what I was wondering - what such an expression would look like

It's straightforward if all strings of valid characters are valid programs, but if you have to match brackets then I don't know how you could easily determine what the number is

Dennis

10:29 PM

@trichoplax With BrainFuck, it shouldn't be that hard. ] is the only problem. If we're currently inside a loop, there are 8 choices. Otherwise, there are 7.

That's with a double-infinite tape, at least.

The other option would be creating a BF derivate that starts with infinte [s.

Calvin's Hobbies

I think finding an expression would be very tricky. Brute forcing is easy enough if you know how to detect all syntax/compile-time errors. Given the program number your interpreter can look through all valid strings lexicographically on the fly until it reaches the number and executes the corresponding program.

@MartinBüttner Have a link to that?

Dennis

Wait, unmatched [ are also syntax errors. Hm, that makes it trickier indeed.

Beta Decay

Sounds like another PCG collaboration language in the making :)

Dennis

Or a code golf challenge. Write the shortest program that establishes a one-to-one correspondence between valid Brainfuck programs and the natural numbers.

trichoplax

@Calvin'sHobbies I'm guessing it can't be brute force for metagolfscript since the hello world program is 209180605381204854470575573749277224

TheNumberOne

10:37 PM

Enumerate all BF programs over the natural numbers.

trichoplax

@Dennis Yeah. Just numbering the list of well-matched strings from the alphabet [] seems daunting to me

Calvin's Hobbies

Enumerate any language over the natural numbers, base encode it to ascii or whatever, and you've got a new language much better for golfing.

Beta Decay

Or just a super-language:

Each line can be in a different language

Which is determined by the Interpreter or compiler

Dennis

@BetaDecay I think the PLQ has proven that this is no easy task. :P

Beta Decay

Yeah...

Are there any non-golfing languages which use overloading functions?

TheNumberOne

10:46 PM

C++

Beta Decay

Ohh nice. That's halfway there to a multi language language

Dennis

11:05 PM

NewSandboxPosts should pick that up in a minute.

New Sandboxed Posts

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Enumerate Brainfuck programs code-golf brainfuck Golunar is a way to encode all Brainfuck programs, but it is not an enumeration, since most natural numbers do not correspond to a valid program. For the purpose of this challenge, assume a double-infinite tape and no comments, i.e., a Brainfuck...

Beta Decay

Hmm. I have no idea how to approach that problem

I can only think of brute forcing every possible BF program and assigning each a number

But that won't finish quickly at all

Dennis

Which is forbidden. :P

Beta Decay

Oh yeah :|

Calvin's Hobbies

Can the word 'endian' be used without being associated with big/little?

Like "My car is so endian"

Beta Decay

11:20 PM

Denoting or relating to a system of ordering bytes in a word, or bits in a byte, in which the most significant (or least significant) item is put first

Calvin's Hobbies

But that's tying it to big or little, most or least

Beta Decay

Well Wiki says you can have mid and mixed endian

But I don't think you can use it standalone

Calvin's Hobbies

I just like the word

Beta Decay

You could always use it yourself ;)

New Sandboxed Posts

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Golfing strings in Fourier code-golf Challenge Given a string as input, output the shortest possible Fourier program to output that string. Fourier Character out a Takes the value of the accumulator as the ASCII code and outputs the character. Increase ^ Increase the accumulator by on...

New Main Posts

11:32 PM

Q: Enumerate valid Brainf**k programs

Golunar/Unary is a way to encode all valid Brainfuck programs, but it is not an enumeration, since most natural numbers do not correspond to a valid program. For the purpose of this challenge, assume a doubly infinite tape and no comments, i.e., a Brainfuck program is valid if and only if it con...

code-golf brainfuck

Beta Decay

Well that was quick @Dennis :D

Dennis

I don't foresee any major issues wit this, so why not. :)

Beta Decay

Haha nice. Can't wait to see the answers now :)

Dennis

Woohoot, rep cap - 10.

TheNumberOne

I just figured out a way :)

Dennis