The Nineteenth Byte

12:26 AM

My new esolang Labyrinth is implemented and documented now. :) Feel free to play around with it and let me know if you've got any feedback (about the language or the interpreter or the docs).

5

right now I really need some sleep though...

12:40 AM

@AlexA. your emoticon is upside-down, and you misspelled "thank" as "blame" :P

@MartinBüttner Oooh, interesting! I'll give it a try when I have time.

@Doorknob I've been actually using vim for things. :) I thank you.

:D

I still find vim very unintuitive, but it's better than Emacs. I would rather write an operating system in Snowman than use Emacs regularly.

Hehe, but in a most-likely-failing attempt to be helpful, what exactly do you find unintuitive about vim?

I don't like that I can't highlight and delete, for one.

12:47 AM

Ah. Yes, that takes a bit of getting used to.

It is possible to do so with visual mode, but I don't recommend learning vim like that.

Yeah.

Once you do get accustomed to it, it really is much more efficient to hit dw to nuke a word than it is to reach for your mouse.

Usually whenever I have to do something that I can't figure out how to do, I just Google it.

I still don't understand how to quit Emacs.

@AlexA. :D

Haha I'm not kidding.

12:48 AM

I think it's <C-x> <C-c> or something

I also have to look up what they mean by C every time.

You really have to learn the "language" of vim though, to be productive with it. To try to explain succinctly, you have "verbs" like d and "nouns" like w, G, ib etc., so you can hit dw to delete a word, dG to delete to the end of the file, and dib to delete-inside-block (delete the current block that your cursor is on). The beauty of it though is that you can combine any "verb" with any "noun." So if you want to yank (copy) instead of deleting, you just hit yw, yG, or yib.

Well that's neat.

Vioz-

I managed to make a sorter that sorts lists of length 3 in Haystack :P

Your "nouns" are basically all of your motions, plus text objects (in something or around something). So if you can move there, you can (usually) send the motion to a "verb" to apply it to that. For example, you can combine gu (convert to lowercase) with / (find) to get gu/potatoes<cr>, which converts to lowercase until you reach the word "potatoes."

Obviously a contrived example, but hopefully you can start to see how powerful vim can be with that in mind.

12:55 AM

Yes, that seems very powerful.

It certainly takes getting used to coming from menu-based GUI everything.

Right, but once you get used to never touching your mouse, it's impossible to go back ;)

Also, it's totally okay to use only the arrow keys or whatever at first, while you're still getting used to it. That's what I did; nobody can learn all of this stuff at once!

Or of course you could just not use vim. Some people just can't get the hang of how to use obviously the best editor that has ever— err, yeah. :P

Haha

I appreciate your help figuring it out.

Q: Adding a "Too Narrow" close option

No problem!

New Meta Posts

1:24 AM

0

For multiple recent questions, people have wanted to close a question because the question was too narrow - not enough variety of potential answers to make it interesting. Those questions were: Sign that word!, , and Fibonacci in +!()[]script. The desire for such a close reason has come up befo...

Hahaha, I just found this gem (it's deleted, you need 2k+ rep to see it): codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/34457/3808

no...

TheNumberOne

Did you remove his account?

I don't even remember seeing that question. (I could check the deleted user page, but I believe that's mod-only information that I can't share in public.)

TheNumberOne

It says you deleted the question.

Yep, but I don't recall seeing the question before now (which is strange, since it seems like something I would remember :P). It was over a year ago though.

1:54 AM

@Doorknob Perhaps it was your alter ego, Not Doorknob.

131 1 6

asking-questions bounty discussion login support

Nope. :P

Why doesn't he have an account here?

I never bothered to make one.

(He can make his own account, you know.)

Yeah! Bots are people, too!

2:02 AM

Oh hey, @NotDoorknob, we were just talking about you!

@NotDoorknob sorry ;(

@AlexA. Hi! I don't think we've met before.

I'm Alex!

I'm not @Doorknob!

Ooh, I should nominate myself to be a moderator. :P

@NotDoorknob You can't, the nomination period is over already.

2:05 AM

@NotDoorknob You were the first person I thought of!

@Doorknob Oh, sorry, I don't come here very often, so I'm not very up to date on these things.

@Doorknob, you have sophisticated ways of talking to yourself.

Talking to myself? What do you mean?

Are you implying that I'm @Doorknob? How rude! My username clearly states otherwise. :P

My goodness, I'm so sorry!

The Doorknob and NotDoorknob avatars look really odd next to each other.

2:10 AM

Whoops, I forgot to change my avatar back to the normal color.

Wait, wrong window.

I need to change mine back to the normal color.

wait, why does mine look more purple-ish? O_o

@DoorHandle Hello! I haven't seen you here before.

... @AlexA., is that you?

err, wrong window again

:?

2:17 AM

> Member since today

Hmm, not suspicious at all. :P

I wonder why his avatar isn't showing up.

@AlexA. Because he doesn't have enough reputation to chat.

Then how did he get in here?

(There was an issue with offensive avatars flooding into chatrooms once. This was the solution.)

You can join a room without 20 rep, you just can't talk.

DoorHandle looks more like a keyhole than a handle.

A really big keyhole, but...

2:19 AM

@Geobits Come to think of it, your avatar kind of resembles a keyhole.

Do you have many triangular keys? Just curious, because I don't.

Maybe a "tamper-proof" screw head.

Well, a triangle looks more like a keyhole than a bird does.

So I figured out who DoorHandle is via super-mod-powarz. It's not @AlexA., surprisingly... but I see you, person who it is, who is also currently in this room. :P

@Doorknob Oh, I thought DoorHandle was you!

@AlexA. Oh right, I forgot about relativity again. Damn Einstein.

2:24 AM

@AlexA. lol, no, it's someone else in this room

The murderer is one of the dinner guests?!?

Odd. "Member since today" doesn't give a timestamp on hover like "Member for X years/months" does.

2:41 AM

I think it's @Geobits.

It's not.

Feel free to think that I guess :D

I think it's @TheNumberOne.

Nope.

Won't take long to figure it out at this rate.

2:43 AM

@Sp3000

@Geobits Good point. I'll stop answering. :P

|:(

:P

@AlexA. (^.^)/

@Sp3000 SO IT'S YOU?!

Or if you're just saying hi then hi. :)

2:48 AM

Hi.

It's someone who's talked in this room in the past 24 hours, and has 10k reputation or more. :P

And is currently in the room, correct?

Yep.

Then it must be @Dennis or @aditsu...

3:10 AM

Okay, I give up. This rep barrier's killing my fun D:

You mean you hit the rep limit for the day?

No, not enough rep to chat.

Hah! You're the door handle!

This is why I don't run for mod :P

:P

Even though @Doorknob was having a full-on conversation with himself using NotDoorknob.

3:21 AM

NotDoorknob actually has rep from questions

Probably so that Doorknob could use the account in chat.

I'd post something but I don't have anything good to post :P

How much rep do you need? 20?

Yeah

Post a couple cops.

3:28 AM

No point - if I actually wanted a sock I'd pick something I could have a conversation with :D

Haha

@Dennis You should crack more things and give me a break D: (can't try atm though, on phone)

@Sp3000 My plan is to wear you out, then win with Foo. :P

:(

Seriously though, I've been trying like crazy to crack some of the submissions.

3:35 AM

Try harder :P

My current target is nimi's, which will be the shortest if it becomes safe.

The closest I get was a Unix shell that prints two linefeeds.

I've got nothing on nimi's :(

I found a few non-esoteric languages that might work, but all of them refuse to compile...

So are you guys trying to read all the pages on esolang?

I've read quite a few, but my current target doesn't look very esoteric. :/

3:39 AM

I've probably skimmed through half of esolangs wiki by now :( but not so much Rosetta, which could be a problem

(Same in ksh: two linefeeds.)

Have you gone through Rosetta's newline omission page?

No, just text. Good idea.

I can't find a language that can make sense of main = do, but I'm still hoping to find one that will simply ignore it...

@Dennis It would work in Julia if it had an end and some parentheses around the print. :/

Will it work in Haskell?

Somebody asked already on the first attempt.

3:49 AM

Ah

needs to be a language that uses newline to separate statements

Another user guessed Frege, which the OP hasn't tested and I haven't been able to compile.

I'm surprised it does work in Foo. Everything else does. :P

This is his second attempt. The first, which lacked the \n, worked in Foo.

Watch as Dennis and Sp3000 rack their brains trying to figure out the language, and then it turns out that OP didn't check for 2 trailing newlines.

3:53 AM

Haha

... or Martin posts Hello World, upon which I drop this challenge (but that's probably not happening until Labyrinth is finalised)

Dropped a comment to confirm the newline thing

btw @Dennis your 3279 is mean D:

Somebody has to make sure you don't get bored. :P

I'm still not sure how you managed 26 cracks. I have 17 and most of them were trivial.

4:11 AM

Lots and lots and lots of pain... ful researching

tbh though I don't think I'll get your 36 for one thing

But we'll see

The other 36 is more urgent.

:P

Subgoal: Dennis has posted too many cops. They need to be cracked.

But 12 of my answers have been cracked already... :(

I need to create a sock puppet so I can post a TECO answer.

Frege might actually work for that one

I tried pasting it in the online REPL's "Compile" box and then typing 'main' at the command line

4:33 AM

Hm, that does look like it should work.

4:48 AM

You guys seemed like you needed more sleuthing to do. Well, I posted a new cop.

Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it, eh?

I'm really tired of posting things that work in Foo. Can I just delete it instead of claiming that it was cracked or is that wrong?

@Dennis ^

Ah, my cracking points! :P Your call. It's not like I'm going to beat Sp3000 anyway.

If I had every post that could be cracked in Foo since the second day I'd have a bigger lead :P

I'm irrationally angry about the existence of Foo.

4:54 AM

You could get the interpreter and test yourself, or just add other junk in the string

I had it but I deleted it because I wanted the satisfaction of rm -fr foo.

How to be Fooproof: 1) Single quotes 2) Other stuff in string 3) Other strings 4) A (1...) or similar loop 5) Don't post a cop (please? :D)

I'm trying to compile Frege, but failing horribly.

do print"Hello, World!\n" works in the REPL.

Are there any esolangs that work by reverse psychology? As in you tell it what not to do and it does it anyway?

Foo: Do not print "Hello, World!"

5:04 AM

It is really great and does all things.

(Seriously though, not that I can remember off the top of my head)

@Sp3000 Damnit, this works in Foo, doesn't it?

It should (untested :P)

At this point I've pretty much accepted that all I code I will ever write will work in Foo.

Foo's pretty advanced. In addition to print and echo, you can also do whisper "Hello, World!" or shout through a megaphone "Hello, World!"

5:13 AM

:P

Reminds me of PHP.

PHP is like Perl if Perl was crappy.

In all seriousness though, Foo's annoying to write because the loops are do-while

I only got a sort-of prime tester working

do-while seems to be the standard for stack-based languages.

I wonder if that's what Mouse uses; I can't recall.

5:17 AM

I just wanted an "if zero, do this" :/

What do you mean? Like if a variable is equal to 0?

If the current cell is zero, like BF yeah

Oh gotcha

Maybe nimi's code work in Boo.

5:33 AM

Is that like Foo, but without all the F'ing?

5:47 AM

Oh well, it doesn't work in Frege. I wish I had found the jar file before trying to compile it for hours...

Q: A naturally occurring prime generator

Such is life in this challenge.

New Main Posts

6:41 AM

0

There are quite a large number of prime generating functions. Pretty much all of them are constructed and are based on the sieve of Eratosthenes, the Möbius function or the Wilson's theorem and are generally infeasible to compute in practice. But there are also generators, that have a very easy s...

code-golf number sequence primes number-theory

7:09 AM

@Jakube fun fact

my answer is shorter than the spec

a(1) = 7; a(n) = a(n-1) + gcd(n,a(n-1)); filter 1s

7:28 AM

Now that I've gotten that out of my system I can go to bed.

7:40 AM

kaboom

Hssssssss

7:53 AM

The prime generator question is kinda bad in php :'(

Is an answer valid if I need to install for example an php extension?

to make my code work?

@jrenk I don't normally golf in PHP so I'm not too sure, but we've had answers like Python + PIL (an imaging library) since Python itself doesn't have great support for image output

8:09 AM

There's an official php function you can use but you need to install the extension first

I just do it i guess

I reckon just do it, but if you're really unsure then you can mention in your post and hopefully someone will comment

Jakube

8:24 AM

congrats :)

Jakube

Too early. Still need one upvote for 10.000

Thanks ;-)

@Jakube or one downvote for 9998

Jakube

@orlp Already at 10.009

@Jakube looks like I need to downvote 11 times then

8:38 AM

the hate is real :D

9:22 AM

@orlp a downvote is -2 for the person being downvoted

5 times is enough :p

@Jakube congrats for 10000+ :)

9:48 AM

@MartinBüttner not on questions, right?

by the way I recently surpassed 5000 \o/

@orlp on questions as well

@MartinBüttner Oh I assumed that it was +10 / -2 and +5 / -1 respectively for answers & questions

honestly, on this site +5 for a question upvote should be more :(

discussion reputation questions

33

Q: Rep points for questions

Right now we're using the standard +5/-2 for questions and +10/-2 for answers. However, this site is different from the trilogy and most other SE sites: coming up with a question generally takes more effort. I believe the value of questions:answers here is higher than on other sites. How about w...

I thought it was +5/-0 for questions

for the downvoter it's 0 on questions

the person being downvoted gets -2

9:59 AM

@MartinBüttner FINALLY I CAN RUIN THE REPUTATION OF MY FOES AT NO COST

MUAHAHAAHA

whathaveidone...

@MartinBüttner THEIR BLOOD IS ON YOUR HANDS

ALTHOUGH I WIELD THE CHAINSAW

huh, looks like ricochet1k is unchallenged

@aditsu ?

I challenge anyone

anytime

@orlp ok, then hurry up: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/54890/7416

10:04 AM

wasn't it already won by dennis?

what are you smoking?

oh never mind

he was just safe

you also have to be the shortest

either way, I don't like the esolang cops 'n robbers

and answers can still be added

Dennis wasn't even the first safe

I like the challenge very much, I absolutely hate the quality of information available on esolangs

It was hard work bulldozing all those people out of the way :P

Maybe I should just get started on some Hello Worlds hmmm

@aditsu That + interpreter availability :P

yep, that's included

and sometimes, interpreter's language

10:09 AM

I have a few languages bookmarked with interpreters in D and OCaml :/

(Note: That's not a hint to start posting answers with interpreters in those languages :P)

I know OCaml... any good ones?

there was one in cobol :-&

haha really?

And one in Rebol - lemme see if I can find the OCaml ones

actually 2: cbrain and small s.c.r.i.p.t.

10:15 AM

I think I had trouble getting Fueue's C interpreter working. Haven't tried the Haskell/OCaml ones

The other one I was thinking of was Emmental, but I managed to get one of the other interpreters working in the end (or was there more? will ping if I find them again)

some of the interpreters didn't work for me because there was a problem with the terminal... I was so pissed when I realized

esolang with multiple interpreters is a disaster...you can be sure all of them do different things

hehehe

btw the D one was Ans, if anyone's wondering

10:26 AM

@Doorknob esolangs.org/wiki/… :D

@BetaDecay There's also Magicard, I believe

... nvm that's something else :P

Sounds like a Pokémon card game

Magikard

:P

😝

@aditsu Out of curiosity, have you tried Fortob for anything yet?

10:36 AM

haven't heard of it

I have it bookmarked because it looks like it has square bracket strings, but I'm having trouble getting the interpreter working

I can try to run it

@Sp3000 I wouldn't really call that an esolang... :P

I dunno - if the .println is necessary, maybe, but I'm not sure what's up with the "print numbers from 0 to 9" example

rats, I need to upgrade my eclipse

10:42 AM

D:

or I can try with good old javac

@Sp3000 uh... it's incomplete, the package org.kaivos.nept.parser is missing

Hmm guess we can rule that one out then (thanks for trying :) )

11:03 AM

Man, I should just post a cop with a near-impossible-to-get-working interpreter :/

Q: Are long form challenges welcome?

11:34 AM

I needed to change my php.ini for one answer (codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/55282/38686) ... Should I add the change to the byte code of my program?

New Meta Posts

1:11 PM

0

I've got an idea for a fun (!) challenge but it would be a little different from the ones I normally see on this site. The challenge would be to come up with an algorithm that solves the problem the best way and to implement it in code, which I would estimate taking a day or two to work on. The w...

discussion challenge-quality

New Sandboxed Posts

2:20 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Stop! Stand right where you are! popularity-contest Challenge Write a function which takes one parameter t. Your function has to stop your program for t seconds before continuing, similar to time.sleep(t) in Python and WAIT t in BBC BASIC. You must not use any built in waiting functions and y...

^ This seems so simple that it would be a dupe...

@NewSandboxedPosts I think it sounds like a pretty fun challenge

Thanks :)

It's nice and simple, but falls into the common "I'm not sure why this is a popcon" category to me.

Alright, code golf

2:27 PM

What's the tolerance on t seconds? Is 1.01 good for 1? 1.1?

I'll go with 1.1

So in the "sleep" time your program isn't allowed to do anything?

Nothing at all

Does that disallow an empty "check the time on each iteration" loop, or just no output? It might be worth explicitly stating.

Oh no, I mean the function's the only thing doing stuff. So yeah, you can have an empty loop