The Whiteboard

user41796

5:00 PM

@durron597 it's 50/50 on that. Depends upon the place

durron597

@GlenH7 I hate that crap. I can't stand white bread, especially store bought

user41796

@durron597 it's supposed to be used as a napkin. :-)

enderland

@durron597 both my wife and I normally make bread when we have it, which is nearly a different food than that stuff haha

durron597

That and sweet iced tea ruin mainstream texas bbq for me

fortunately, when my company does bbq events, I got the guy who runs it to provide unsweetened iced tea, and I just skip the bread.

@enderland It would be different if it was fresh baked, but it's always stuff grabbed from the bread aisle (not even the store's bakery section)

user41796

Traditionally, a slice or two of white bread is put down on the plate to help soak up the sauce. Then you pile the meat on top like an open faced sandwich. Eating the sauce enriched bread is entirely up to you.

durron597

5:03 PM

@GlenH7 I understand the concept, I'm just saying that can be done with good bread

enderland

@durron597 I can't stand unsweetened ice tea at all

user41796

Can't star removed comments.

durron597

@GlenH7 I'll probably leave the followup

user41796

only necessary if you're star farming... :-)

durron597

So if I screw up around here and the algo trades and we lose money, I get yelled at in public. If a coworker (who is responsible for bookkeeping and making trades on the physical side) makes a mistake, he gets yelled at publicly

Today was the oil supply number, which is normally on Wednesday but it was released on Thursday because of Memorial Day

I have logic that shuts our working orders off at 9:30

We've discussed these anomaly numbers before, and the decision was made "there's not that many of them, we'll just turn the system off manually"

Guess who's fault it was that we lost some $ today? Hint: not mine

Guess who didn't get yelled at

I didn't get yelled at either, except my boss came over to have a chat with me "it's really important that we code these anomaly days in the logic"

user41796

5:08 PM

Whee for new requirements!

durron597

me: "I thought we were going to turn it off manually"

boss: "well, obviously that's not working"

could you be a man and take some damned responsibility?

This is not the first time something like this has happened, before I wrote the auto-turn-off logic, we lost <a lot of money> because my boss forgot to tell the monitoring trader to turn it off for a nonfarm payroll number

And then came in late that day (so he couldn't turn it off himself)

user41796

"ooops"

durron597

@GlenH7 could you edit the other money amount out please

too busy ranting to think straight

ty

user41796

All of these things can be made to disappear...

durron597

@GlenH7 Nah, I don't need to remove the rest of this. Just the money number really shouldn't be out there

Jimmy Hoffa

5:13 PM

@durron597 yelling in offices is something I will never begin to understand. Lots of offices don't do it, but lots actually do. I am baffled by this because I don't understand how somebody reaches a certain age without knowing: You just don't yell at people, this is something children and spouses do.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Yell might be a touch of hyperbole. Raised voice, yes, harsh tone, yes, I'm not sure if it quite got to "yell"

user41796

Converting a class from using DateTime to DateTimeOffset is going to be a real PITA

durron597

Actually, I take that back. I didn't get yelled at, but my coworker did.

Jimmy Hoffa

Frankly I can't stand getting yelled at in a work environment, it's a level of unprofessionalism I'm both startled and stressed by; it indicates a lack of predictability and self-control in those with authority, which makes me wonder if they'll snap and heads will roll because they have anger problems.

user41796

@durron597 Hopefully not the new guy

durron597

5:15 PM

@GlenH7 Nah, he starts in 2 weeks. It was the bookkeeper guy who works for the manual traders

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Once had a boss like that. He also liked to tell only part of the story...

durron597

The partners also flipped out at each other because one of them didn't push a customer to pay <a very, very large amount of money> on time, so we missed out on a <not-as-large but still significant amount of interest> (money begets money and so forth)

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 worked for one fellow who I'm convinced was bipolar, he'd praise the team in one sentence then slam his hand on the meeting table and yell at us in the exact next, and he fired people routinely. (Note: I don't say bipolar in a bad way, it's a terribly unfortunate illness many suffer from.)

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Fortunately, my story wasn't as dramatic. But I knew within a week of starting there that I needed to get out.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Why do you think I replied to a job interview offer at all?

This is the same office where they get raise their voice at me for saying "woohoo! xyz trade made money" because murphy's law is a real thing, apparently.

These "professional traders" are so superstitious they make baseball players blush

Jimmy Hoffa

5:19 PM

@durron597 I've heard traders are notoriously superstitious.

user41796

@durron597 That's standard gambling procedures. Thou shall not tempt Lady Luck to smite thee.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 You should read this guys blog (not necessarily this article, but his whole blog is very cool mathematically and has lots of quant stuff; super smart guy): chrisstucchio.com/blog/2014/…

has some super cool articles about mathematical algorithms for quantifying marketing results from A/B testing and appropriate techniques for analyzing the results. Neat stuff if you like the whole predictive analysis stuff

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Good article... everything in it is correct, and everything in it is stuff we already know :)

But thanks :-P

We use threshholds to make sure we can't flip in and out of signal so many times in a short period

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 like I said, I don't refer to that article; just his whole blog - dig around in his articles there's some cool stuff.

Figured it may be up your alley

plus if I recall he believes in liberterian economic principles so and blogs about those at times too

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Maybe. I do plenty of libertarian navel gazing these days anyway

In other news, it's looking more and more likely that the patriot act will expire! Woohoo

Robert Harvey

5:30 PM

Government: less is more.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 and APIs will be copyrighted! I'm copyrighting HTTP posts to "account/create". That's my interface, you must pay me royalties to use it.

Robert Harvey

Ohh, political this morning.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Only just started. Been mostly job related for last few hours until the last 3 minutes

Robert Harvey

job politics.

enderland

all work is politics

Robert Harvey

5:31 PM

I'm a little punchy this morning. Woke up at 3 and couldn't go back to sleep.

durron597

@enderland In the era of crony capitalism, sure is

Robert Harvey

Have a six hour drive ahead of me.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey have you thought about canning the drive and instead going with a six hour binge at the nearest local pub? Just floating the idea...

Ampt

@GlenH7 you can remove edit historys? MOD ABUSE!

#occupystackchat

@RobertHarvey Tell that to the military industrial complex...

enderland

@Ampt :)

Ampt

5:37 PM

@JimmyHoffa That always works out really well for me!

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa Whash that?

Ampt

Now you've got it!

durron597

Yes, that means what you all think it means. I'm going to lunch

Ampt

Cheer up enderland, there's plenty to go around!

user41796

@durron597 Boo!

enderland

5:47 PM

what glen said :(

user41796

Anyone with close (or down) votes? programmers.stackexchange.com/q/285210/53019

Telastyn

6:23 PM

huzzah, a login!

now I get to wait for MSDN access, so I can get an IDE.

Ampt

I'd suggest intelliJ but MSDN means that you've already gone down the wrong path.

Telastyn

pff

Ampt

WOAH!

When did @Spiderman become a prog?

Working for the newspaper wasn't paying the bills?

enderland

... ?

Ampt

--->

Spiderman

6:39 PM

@Ampt JJ heard about online news...

Ampt

@Spiderman Oh, well let me tell you, we have the BEST stories here on the whiteboard

In fact, this one time in dev-camp....

user41796

Back to my pre-interview design question. How does this read?

enderland

that other input could still nearly copy-pasta be used

user41796

I had hoped the bit about jokers would throw that off.

user41796

Perhaps not

user41796

6:50 PM

Or if it didn't, then I'll definitely know they didn't think through the exercise

Telastyn

what is the timeframe to answer the question?

user41796

3 - 5 days

enderland

@Telastyn post phone, pre onsite interview

Telastyn

yeah, that seems fine. Maybe clarifying what sort of poker.

Ampt

I like it. Multiple decks adds a new level

user41796

6:53 PM

True, had forgotten there's 18,000 variants of poker now

Telastyn

older candidates probably think of 5 card draw, newer ones only hold'em

Ampt

and with that level of detail, I would be surprised if they didn't use online resources

enderland

@Telastyn issue from before is that lots of copy-pasta available online and so hard to know if it's legit code or something

Ampt

the key part is figuring out how to use them effectively

Telastyn

sure.

enderland

6:54 PM

@Ampt iirc multiple was part of the previous one

user41796

@enderland It was there, but it was easy to overlook

enderland

enderland reads details :)

Telastyn

as soon as you interview a handful of candidates there's likely to be copy-pasta anyways

Ampt

@enderland cough suckup cough

user41796

My intent is to request something that shouldn't take too long to put together but offers enough hints for them to really go for the details and shine if that's what they'd like to do

user41796

6:55 PM

@enderland I wish more candidates would

Ampt

@durron597 Honest question - do you feel that it expiring will really change anything? I'm of the mindset that what they're doing now is already illegal and unconstitutional, but that hasn't really stopped them...

Telastyn

employer^^ had people do a soda machine or an elevator or Netflix

Ampt

It's a lot harder to kill something before it's begun than after it's been around for a decade

Telastyn

(back when netflix was a dvd mailing place)

though that was mostly for whiteboard interviews, and was of dubious quality.

user41796

Missed a negative there in that "shouldn't take too long."

user41796

6:58 PM

And I think I'll keep it simple by saying five card draw but will leave it ambiguous for using it for other variants.

enderland

the problem is that "too long" is very variable

"too long' for average candidates? great candidates?

user41796

@enderland We're not insisting on ~~purple squirrels~~ rock stars, but we do expect experienced candidates who are able to code.

enderland

@GlenH7 I feel like this example is like 10-20 min for most people you'd want to hire

user41796

@enderland That would be my hope, yes

enderland

so what I'd do, is have a basic thing -such as cards - and then create more complex, optional situations - complex for novices but straightforward and easy for others

Ampt

7:01 PM

Well... If you're looking for off beat card games, my GF's family plays a game called Canasta with some interesting rules. You play with 4 decks, including 2 jokers per deck. All decks are shuffled together, then each player gets 11 cards. Red threes are placed face up on the table and you redraw for each red three you have. Could be interesting to have them create, shuffle, and then deal a hand, including re-draws.

user41796

If they clear this stage and move to in person interviews, I frequently use their deck design as a source of questions during the interview.

enderland

ack, got bit by a help vampire :(

Ampt

never heard of anyone else playing, so I'm not sure you would easily find copy-pasta online

enderland

@Ampt I've played Canasta

Ampt

Really?!

enderland

7:02 PM

there are also a million variants to it, too

Ampt

yup

enderland

I've played a ton of card games

Ampt

@Ampt If you wanted to make it more complicated, every card is worth a certain point value, and you could have them total up points in hand haha

Ha, that does work.

sweet

André

@enderland isn't that called Canastra here?

Ampt

where is here?

André

7:05 PM

@Ampt Brazil

Ampt

then I have no clue :) I'm in wisconsin. Closer to Canada than south america haha

André

Hahaha, I've heard that Brazilians have Minnesota accent, is that true?

enderland

@André I don't think so

Ampt

I don't know, do you say "eh" a lot?

user41796

@André I haven't heard enough Portuguese to know if that's even possible.

enderland

7:07 PM

ah damnit

André

@Ampt maybe

enderland

last time I ever say I acn help someone

Ampt

what are you fixing now?

André

Wiki says so, Canastra is Canasta, on pt-br wiki

durron597

@Ampt It hasn't stopped them because a secret court (FISA) has rubber stamped all their actions

enderland

7:08 PM

> . I have a macro that needs updating. figured you might be able to help

durron597

where only the government gets to make its case, but no one gets to make a case on the other side

Ampt

@enderland haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahaha

Macro = And I raaaan, I ran so far awaaaaaaay

user41796

@enderland Haven't you learned yet?

Ampt

@durron597 Which is to say, what stops them from secretly ruling a new, even scarier patriot act?

durron597

@Ampt Rand Paul

enderland

7:10 PM

@GlenH7 you might want to say something like, "you don't have to implement details of the game" or otherwise clarify that

it kinda reads like, "implement a poker game"

user41796

@enderland good point, I'll add that

durron597

@GlenH7 I'm starting to think that code samples are for the lazy interviewers. Better to do a 15-30 minute phone screen where they have to write code in a shared doc like a google doc

enderland

@durron597 #hr probs

user55340

Have them implement sheepshead.

user41796

@durron597 I can't argue with that...

durron597

7:11 PM

I've had passable code samples where I would have tossed the guy in 5 minutes in a phone interview

In other news, I spoke to my recruiter.

user55340

Or Eucher. Though a multi deck game such as canasta is also going to be interesting.

Ampt

@durron597 Is he one of the repub candidates?

enderland

@Ampt libertarian

user41796

@durron597 - hate that as it leaves you second guessing everything that went on.

Ampt

Ugh....

enderland

7:13 PM

bummer. but nice you got feedback, though

durron597

blogs.rollcall.com/218/…

> Still, there was plenty of support for the bill in the House. It was in the Senate — amid concerns from privacy advocates like Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., and from lawmakers like Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, who believed the bill would help terrorists — that the Freedom Act ran into problems.

> Before the Senate skipped town early Saturday, McConnell put the House bill up for a vote, even though he’s seemed steadfastly opposed to the legislation. It fell three short of the necessary 60 votes on a procedural motion.

Ixrec

there've been so many deletions I no longer have any idea what you guys are talking about

durron597

> McConnell then tried to pass a clean two-month extension of the existing program, which would have put the House in the spot of either accepting such a bill during a recess — as Amash remains worried will happen — or allowing provisions to lapse until the House returns Monday.

> That bill couldn’t muster the requisite votes either, with only 45 senators voting “aye” on the proposal McConnell favored. Finally, the Kentucky Republican tried a series of smaller-term unanimous consent agreements — first one week, then five days, then one day. Paul and Sen. Martin Heinrich, D-N.M., objected.

Stack Exchange

durron597 has added Ixrec to the list of this room's owners.

user41796

@Ixrec We've moved back to US politics

Ampt

7:15 PM

and it's going to make me sick.

durron597

@GlenH7 He's had enough hazing.

user41796

Pfffft

Ampt

LOL

I got hazed for like 2 years :P

Back in my day...

durron597

@Ampt You still get hazed

enderland

@durron597 that's nice, kinda surprising tbh

durron597

7:17 PM

@enderland My girlfriend mentioned that she heard that Google doesn't mind false negatives at all but really, really hates false positives

So they err that way.

enderland

it makes sense though if you think about it

user41796

false positives can cause a lot of damage to the code base

Ixrec

@durron597 I got the impression most companies do this

"if you're not sure, it's a no" and so on

enderland

@GlenH7 or just in general

durron597

@GlenH7 How's that project going by the way?

enderland

7:24 PM

might direct this guy - workplace.stackexchange.com/q/47323/2322 - here? he might benefit from chat, rather than a q/a...

what do you all think?

durron597

Anyway, @Ampt, that's who Rand Paul is, he's the main civil liberties Republican; the one Republican who actually seems to care about the 1st, 4th and 8th amendments and is also trying to cut government waste ( paul.senate.gov/about-rand/issues/… )

user41796

@durron597 mixing DateTime and DateTimeOffset in C# is downright evil. Compiler ought to throw an error, it's honestly that bad.

Ampt

personally, I'd prefer if they cared about all our rights... but I guess it's a step in the right direction

durron597

@Ampt He does care about all our rights, it's just that those three are sort of the biggest "wtf" as far as what government is currently doing right now

If you've never looked into the state of prisons in this country (8th amendment), you should. Shocking stuff

enderland

@durron597 that first example is poor, $240/hr for 20 people is not too bad for training and email is a huge inefficiency in most orgs

Ampt

7:27 PM

@durron597 The for-profit prisons are a serious concern... petty crimes turn into cash for those in charge

durron597

@Ampt attn.com/stories/941/who-profits-from-prisoners

@enderland Rand Paul wants to eliminate the entire federal department of education. 10th amendment

enderland

@durron597 I don't necessarily think that's a bad idea...

Ampt

but what about the children left behind?!

THINK OF THE CHILDREN GUYS

enderland

You may find a better resource in programmers chat as this is much more conducive to chat than Q/A. — enderland ♦ 56 secs ago

@Ampt they are already left behind ;)

Ampt

Ok... an hour and a half of meetings. be back in a bit.

enderland

7:30 PM

heh paychecks this month are fun, lol, putting lots into 401k makes small paychecks

user15026

At work, on break. Having an awesome day so far even if I have to deal with win8

Duga

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this type of question is a better fit for programmers.stackexchange.com — doelleri 55 secs ago

durron597

@enderland I think it's a great idea. #RandPaul2016 #StandWithRand

@AshleyNunn Glad your day is going better than mine

user15026

@durron597 I am learning things!

user15026

Sorry to hear your day is going not so well

durron597

7:33 PM

@enderland He also wants to eliminate the departments of Energy, Commerce, and Housing and Urban Development.

enderland

perfect

gubermint needs less spending, more not-spending

durron597

The problem is, what group is the strongest opponent of eliminating government waste?

Hint: it's not "wall street fat cats" (though they don't help)

enderland

@durron597 no one?

durron597

@enderland Nay

Duga

@doelleri this question is a very poor fit for Programmers - it would be quickly voted down and closed over there, see meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6483/… Recommended reading: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow — gnat 10 secs ago

durron597

7:36 PM

Answer: AFSCME

Public sector unions don't want these wasteful government programs to go away, because they'd lose money and members and etc. etc.

And yes, a lot of government workers would lose their jobs

But, it's basically just one more type of government welfare.

Instead of getting paid to go to the unemployment office, you get paid to do some stupid government bureaucratic nonsense

Which isn't really an improvement.

enderland

woot meaningless drone labor

I am astounded how few people I recommend chat don't actually do it, it's like, "meh I had a question but don't really know if I want to do that much" (the person I recommended here is either lurking or decided not to ask in chat)

enderland

8:04 PM

also interesting, got a personalized linked-in message for a local job which looks interesting...

André

Nice, I might create a linked-in profile, I read that headhunters use it's data to hunt nowdays

enderland

it's mostly junk

Telastyn

about half of my recruiter harassments come via linkedin these days

André

I get no harassment at all with careers.so

Telastyn

I've had two or three things through careers.so

they were higher level sort of jobs, entrepreneurs looking for techs to help found stuff.

user41796

8:10 PM

@Telastyn in other words, legalized slave labor?

Telastyn

@GlenH7 - a lottery ticket that I at least have some sway in the prize payout.

the one was okay, but not a good fit personality wise

the other was a pipe dream.

"we're going to make real security easy to use!"

whatsisname

lol

Telastyn

mhmm, sure thing.

whatsisname

reminds me when I was asked to write a grant proposal for an 'unhackable' medical device

user41796

yeahumermwellthanksbutlemmeknowhowthatgoes

whatsisname

8:13 PM

err, medical cell-phone application

and I was like "uhhhhh"

enderland

@whatsisname just don't connect to anything, ever, or allow any code written on it

oh :P

Telastyn

ex-veritas guy, but yeah...

anyways, bbiab.

gnat

"Provide source code, program output and compiler output!" - can we provide something?

Provide your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle

user41796

It's not even that hard of a problem...

enderland

@GlenH7 BUT POWERZ

also best part about working from home is that when you are working in the zone NOTHING distracts you

user41796

8:33 PM

float FooFunc(float x)
{
    float xThird = x * x * x;
    float xFourth = xThird * x;
    float xFifth = xFourth * x;

    return (5*xFifth) + (3*xFourth) - (3*xThird) + x - 0.8;
}

durron597

So I'm still thinking about resigning despite the fact that now I have no active job leads

user41796

@durron597 don't

enderland

@GlenH7 aww c'mon, it's more fun to do

durron597

Talk me into caring about this job again at least long enough to tide me over until I get a job offer from somewhere else

enderland

> fooFunc(float x){
return 5*x*x*x*x*x + 3*x*x*x*x - 3*x*x*x + x -0.8;
}

user41796

8:35 PM

@enderland I like yours better

enderland

@durron597 I'ma ssuing your financial situation is fine then?

@GlenH7 it's much more "sigh. ok..." like

:)

durron597

@GlenH7 I know thinking about doing it is stupid, petty and immature, but I just haven't cared about my work for a year at least

enderland

it is always easier to find a job while you are employed

user41796

^^^^ That's the primary reason why not to quit now

enderland

unless you are working 80+ hours a week, I guess

durron597

8:36 PM

@enderland I would survive for at least 6 months if I were fired today

@enderland No, I'm not, I just don't care about the work anymore

user41796

@durron597 Why play that spade unless you have to?

user41796

@durron597 And so what?

durron597

@GlenH7 Because I'm miserable

user41796

Every job has a point where it just becomes a grind

durron597

I didn't realize I was until I had an opportunity to leave

user41796

8:37 PM

And the question you have to ask yourself is why is that the case, and can you do anything about it?

user41796

If nothing else, it helps you learn where you focus your attention at work

user41796

And while it sucks to get a life lesson in that manner, this is the best way to grind through it

Ixrec

for some reason PSE thinks I upvoted Dan's comment on that question even though it's brand new

but I would've upvoted it anyway, so perhaps SE finally became sentient

user41796

So the question becomes, can you find ways - even little ones - to make things more tolerable?

user41796

at gig^, I had the same issue

user41796

8:39 PM

And trust me, it was a horrible grind

durron597

The problem is like

I am basically un-fireable

user41796

but it gave me an opportunity to focus on what my priorities were and to find ways that I could effect change

enderland

don't you live in a really hot job market?

durron597

Because I'm not fireable, the only incentive I have to work is actually caring about the work

however, I don't care about it, so I just screw around on stack exchange all day instead

enderland

@durron597 the "not fireable" thing applies to a lot of folks, too, since it's that way in most large companies

user41796

8:40 PM

@durron597 You still have the incentive to continue improving your skills and delving deeper into the framework / algorithms / whatnot that other employers are interested in and you like researching

durron597

@GlenH7 Instead of doing cool stuff like that, I have to adjust the calendar logic so that we don't lose $ when my boss forgets to turn the system off

enderland

@durron597 is it a case of "grass is greener, now I'm stuck" perspective?

durron597

@enderland What do you mean?

enderland

I know you've had issues with your coworkers bu tI don't recall this level of... job disatisfaction

sometimes the hope of something else can make us very discontent

durron597

@enderland I don't think I was aware of how unhappy I was. I kept lying to myself that the prospect of the algorithm really taking off and making us gobs of money would be enough for me

enderland

8:43 PM

it's a lot easier to feel "grass is greener elsewhere" (and sometimes it is) but our tendency will be to feel that way, nearly regardless of how good our current situations are

user41796

@durron597 No job is perfect, which is why I use a 60 / 40 rule. So long as the suckage remains in the 40% then I can deal with the job.

enderland

@durron597 Ah, see that's different then - you can only work after purely money for so long...

durron597

you know what I really want? I consider myself to be a good, but not great, self-taught programmer

I want to actually work with some really really experienced people to help me learn the things that you can only get via apprenticeship

Sort of like what Telastyn was talking about yesterday about not starting with class Ball, Table, Cue, etc.

lol, honestly, the level of understanding that overexchange seems to be grasping for and continually unable to find

user41796

@durron597 Which comes from doing

durron597

But, I've been the best / most experienced programmer everywhere I've gone my entire life, EXCEPT when I'm on Stack Exchange.

whatsisname

8:45 PM

you just need practice solving problems that are too difficult for you

user41796

And sometimes the best "doing" is fixing crap code...

durron597

When I was 21 I walked into my first job and I was the best programmer there on day 1

enderland

I can totally relate on this one durron, especially if you ever get praise from coworkers about "how awesome" you are

"no, everyone else is just terrible or even less experienced"

durron597

I know I'm not close to the best programmer in the world. Not even close

enderland

@durron597 is that your goal?

durron597

8:47 PM

But the problem is, I'm good enough that I won't find better people unless I actively look

(like, coming into this chatroom)

@enderland It's less about that and more about spending time with peers

whatsisname

what sort of skills do you think you are lacking

enderland

@durron597 gotcha

durron597

I think that's the biggest thing that's changed. When I was first hired here I had lots of respect for my coworkers. I no longer have such respect

whatsisname

and not in terms of frameworks, but in terms of "tools of your mind"

enderland

@durron597 I was just teling a friend yesterday how hard it is to work for someone you don't respect

durron597

8:50 PM

Bloom's taxonomy

Bloom's taxonomy is a way of distinguishing the fundamental questions within the education system. It is named after Benjamin Bloom, who chaired the committee of educators that devised the taxonomy. He also edited the first volume of the standard text, Taxonomy of Educational Objectives: The Classification of Educational Goals. Bloom's taxonomy refers to a classification of the different objectives that educators set for students (learning objectives). It divides educational objectives into three "domains": cognitive, affective, and psychomotor (sometimes loosely described as "knowing/head"...

I would say that I am around Synthesis level or so, as far as things like SOLID programming

whatsisname

SOLID programming is way overrated

durron597

@whatsisname I'm not experienced enough to be able to take such a stance

My sample size is "did doing X work for me this time?" and if it did, maybe I got lucky. If it didn't, I don't know why

user41796

@whatsisname Too many people put it up way too high on a pillar

whatsisname

getting better at programming is just like developing any skill: keep doing it, and keep doing things that are more difficult than anything you've done up to that point

enderland

@whatsisname durron's point is more, if you want to learn to be a good tennis player, take lessons from a coach or more experienced player - don't spend 20 years on your own

durron597

8:55 PM

@enderland That's actually a perfect example, I've been getting lessons for 6 months now and I've become a way better tennis player in those 6 months than I did in the previous 12

now, previous 12 I definitely did improve

whatsisname

your time with your coach only augments your practice and keeps your steered towards doing harder and harder stuff

of course in the case of tennis or musical instruments they can watch you in the moment, which is very important for those skills but not so much in programming or woodworking

enderland

practice makes permanent. perfect practice makes perfect permanent, but incorrect practice makes incorrect permanent

@whatsisname I don't believe this at all

Telastyn

I'd just like to point out that my OO design skills didn't come from a mentor, 75% of my career, I've been the best programmer by far.

durron597

I was dropping my racket head when I volleyed at the net, I kept trying to slam the ball down and I hit it into the net way too often. Now I'm volleying much more consistently and deeper

@Telastyn 100% of my career I have been.

My first job out of college the senior people were former Electrical Engineering majors who picked up VB6 as a side project

We were still delivering VB6 code in 2008

Telastyn

Sure, just using my OO skills as a reason to seek mentors is... Maybe not applicable.

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