The Whiteboard

Jimmy Hoffa

12:01 AM

searlized, is that like seared on the grill?

Robert Harvey

It's the way we do it in the South, y'all.

> I'm trying to convert a legacy PHP app to use the middleware paradigm, similar to connect/express.js.

I already have a feeling of doom.

Jimmy Hoffa

Really? The only thing I feel right now is a little warm. The A/C maybe...

psr

@overexchange - I'm still not getting why we should care about dividing the world into computational objects vs. other stuff.

Robert Harvey

> Middleware is a function with access to the request object (req), the response object (res), and the next middleware in line in the request-response cycle of an Express application, commonly denoted by a variable named next -- expressjs.com/guide/using-middleware.html

psr

@JimmyHoffa Short for "surlyized", or "been reading the whiteboard too much".

Robert Harvey

12:08 AM

How does that even work? Is express.js just a distributed framework?

user55340

@Snowman because sometimes the fun of code golf isn't the shortest code...

user55340

13

A: Fissile Numbers

Fission, 1328 989 887 bytes Now with 100% fewer scrollbars. Working on this code was what inspired this challenge. I wanted to add an answer in Fission to EOEIS, which led me to this sequence. However, actually learning Fission and implementing this took a few weeks working on it on and off. In...

user55340

From the esolang wiki: esolangs.org/wiki/Fission

user55340

> Fission is a 2-dimensional esoteric programming language. The program is comprised of atoms moving around. Each atom has a mass and an energy level. When an atom is first created, it has a mass of 1 unit and 0 energy. It moves in a straight line either up, down, left or right. It can change direction through various means such as bouncing off of mirrors.

user114359

I got a badge for a 1,000 view question, but nobody voted either up or down on it after 4.5 years:

user114359

12:13 AM

0

Q: Method not found via reflection

I have a class that is part of a larger framework and looks something like this: public class MyClass { public void setValue(long value) {...} public void setValue(Long value) {...} } The framework that uses this class is passing JDBC values from a ResultSet onto the bean. In this specific...

user15026

@Snowman Getting badges and no/few votes is common for me on Gaming

user55340

I'm confused by npr.org/sections/money/2015/05/21/408234543/… - "Computer Programmers" have a 48.1% of being automated while web developers, security analysts and network architects are at 20.6% and Software Developers Applications (aren't they computer programmers too) have a 4.2% chance of being automated.

user55340

And what are Chief Executives doing squeezing into small places? Why isn't that at 0%? Do they think that CEO cubes are small?

user114359

@MichaelT if "computer programmers" become automated, Skynet is already in control.

user114359

@MichaelT I say we outsource CEOs. That would save the most money for the shareholders.

Jimmy Hoffa

12:18 AM

@MichaelT and what's "Software Developers Applications" ? That has 4% chance...

Ixrec

pretty much any job that requires actual thought is not getting automated anytime soon, at most it'd slowly turn into the job of thinking for the machine that now does some of what you were doing before

user55340

The sheepshead playing group today had a new record high of 9 people (broke into two games - 5 and 4)

user55340

Everyone in at 6, 7 the dealer sits out, 8 the dealer and previous sit out and skip two for dealers so people don't sit out two hands in a row.

Duga

12:38 AM

@durron597 should this be moved to Programmers.SE? Seems like it would be on topic there. — DisgruntledGoat 17 secs ago

user55340

@AshleyNunn so... cows. There's a portion of the Boy Scouts which is an honor society. Part of that involves staying up all night with a fire going. This is all rather bland by itself. Some ceremonies and what not... all very solemn.

user55340

One year, the location I was involved with got some new camping area in a will. Very nice, rolling hills some buildings (a one room school house among them) some farmland adjacent to it. So we decided to have that year's events at this new property (various higher ups where there - partly because of the importance of the event partly to check out the land).

user55340

One guy (lets call him 'Gus' because thats his name) was out there that year. He was in the middle of what was a field. And had a fire going. Cows wandered in from an adjacent field... and they were attracted to the fire.

user55340

So there you are... its 3am and you're surrounded by cows softly mooing and staring at you.

user55340

When we (the organizers) realized this (the cows) one of the higher ups (balding guy, glasses, was commissary director in years before and had the misfortune of loosing a boot in the septic tank that was filled to the brim a previous year) undertook the "shoo them away back into the other field"

user114359

12:42 AM

@MichaelT Sounds like the steak came to you.

Duga

@DisgruntledGoat questions about licensing your own software are on-topic at Programmers.SE. This question would be off-topic there. Please read: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow. — Snowman 58 secs ago

user15026

So, were you in the middle of the wrong field, or did they escape?

user55340

So there he is, trying to solemnly shoo the cows away. "Go. Get. Move. Shoo... oh crap that was a huge cow pie"

user55340

@AshleyNunn They had escaped... the fence was there but they were curious about the fire.

user15026

Oh, fun :P

user55340

12:44 AM

Gus's comment on the experience was about them staring at him for a good 30 minutes or so. He has since pledged the extension of all cows... one quarter pound at a time.

user55340

I'm still working on killing all the dinosaurs (not that particular species... though... they're cute).

user114359

@MichaelT I did my part last weekend, grilled and ate a 10 oz filet mignon over mesquite.

user55340

Sure, T. rex is closer in height to Stegosaurus than a sparrow. But that doesn't tell you much; 'Dinosaur Comics' author Ryan North is closer in height to certain dinosaurs than to the average human.

user114359

user55340

8

Q: Could a Human Ride a Raptor?

I'm sure we can all agree that raptors are pretty cool (most dinosaurs are). But what I think would be really, really cool would be a rideable raptor. However, I don't know if this is possible. While I assume that raptors had pretty strong hind legs, I'm doubting whether they have the power to ev...

dinosaurs mounts

user55340

12:48 AM

user55340

Anyways... thats my cow story.

user15026

That is an excellent cow story

user114359

I prefer dinosaur stories, especially when they involve xkcd

user114359

Duga

I can't say if this was on topic when you initially posted this, but according to Questions about licensing, licensing questions are off topic on Stack Overflow. Also, according to When is a software licensing question on topic?, they are on topic at Programmers.SE. Though you do have a point that my time would be better spent on old, unanswered questions rather than answered ones. — cpburnz 54 secs ago

user55340

12:55 AM

Oh, to give you an idea of Gus... he's of the perky goth / industrial (NIN from the day)... long black hair. Was a CS major... last I heard he worked at Microsoft.

user15026

So someone who had likely rarely, if ever, encountered a cow?

Duga

@cpburnz licensing questions are not always on-topic at Programmers.SE. They must be about how to license your own software and not solicit legal advice. Please read: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow. — Snowman 32 secs ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because questions about licensing are off-topic. Licensing questions may be on-topic at Programmers.SE. — cpburnz 16 secs ago

This is probably a better question for programmers.stackexchange.com. — jsve 58 secs ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because questions about licensing are off-topic. Licensing questions may be on-topic at Programmers.SE. — cpburnz 1 min ago

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because questions about licensing are off-topic. Licensing questions may be on-topic at Programmers.SE. — cpburnz 12 secs ago

This question is on-topic here but probably needs some editing. Also, "best practice" questions tend to fare poorly at Programmers.SE. Please read: What goes on Programmers.SE? A guide for Stack Overflow. — Snowman 47 secs ago

Robert Harvey

1:18 AM

Looks like dice is down.

user55340

@RobertHarvey another one to poke at: hired.com

user55340

All I know is they advertise on reddit.

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT Eh, those guys. "We're looking for Rails and NoSQL folks right now, but thanks anyway."

user55340

1:36 AM

Ghads... Martin is still working on explaining that Fissile program... he's crazy.

user55340

If its much longer, it will become a language manual...

user55340

13

A: Fissile Numbers

Fission, 1328 989 887 bytes Now with 100% fewer scrollbars. Working on this code was what inspired this challenge. I wanted to add an answer in Fission to EOEIS, which led me to this sequence. However, actually learning Fission and implementing this took a few weeks working on it on and off. In...

user114359

@MichaelT I read that problem, it is interesting but seems too easy.

user15026

O.o

durron597

2:34 AM

Starting to emerge from the pack of "just barely steward badge CV reviewers"

I guess I'll stop reviewing when I pass @gnat

Job Definition is down to just 5 questions that need CVs. Anyone? Bueller? @RobertHarvey ? @Snowman ?

Robert Harvey

2:49 AM

@durron597 This one seems fine. It's a bit broad, but answerable (in fact, I answered it).

I did remove the Job Definition tag, however.

durron597

@RobertHarvey A question like this is either opinion based or should be tagged terminology

My reading of it was the former. Do you think it should be the latter?

Robert Harvey

Tagged it with Terminology.

durron597

In the former, it's asking us what we think a title means. In the latter, it's asking for a definition.

ok

I'll accept your reading of it. CV retracted.

Did you tap the other 4?

Robert Harvey

Hmm, the bad job description one would have been OK if the guy hadn't used the word "appropriate" in the question title. I closed it.

This one is OK.

durron597

@RobertHarvey How is that not an opinion based question?

Robert Harvey

2:55 AM

Very important question, and the accepted answer is spot on.

durron597

Should a programmer get up before dawn or not?

Robert Harvey

No, that's not analogous at all.

durron597

Should a programmer write code first, tests second, or tests first, code second?

Robert Harvey

That's a TDD religious argument. The testers thing is not really in dispute.

durron597

@RobertHarvey How do you know that?

Robert Harvey

2:57 AM

Neither is the "bug-free" job description question. I was really on the fence on that one.

@durron597 Well, I don't know it, I guess, but it does seem self-evident to me that the role of a developer is to make his code work, and the role of a tester is to break the code. Two diametrically-opposed goals.

If you think you're getting better test quality by co-opting your developers to assist in the QA effort, well... you might not be.

It's a built-in conflict of interest.

durron597

Right, but some people could reasonably think that testers should not exist at all, and that developers should be responsible for all the testing starting with TDD and then an integration testing phase prior to deployment

Robert Harvey

No reasonable person that I know believes that.

Neither do you.

durron597

Mehhh

I mean, you're right, I don't believe it

Robert Harvey

Stack Exchange suffers from a "trivial categorization" problem. Close reasons are deliberately designed to be as clear and unambiguous as possible, as they should be. The problem is that there has to be some wiggle room, because the real purpose of closure is to earmark for removal those questions that... well, are just not all that interesting.

So every close reason is really just a proxy for "these kinds of questions are usually uninteresting," or more specifically, "we have found through experience that this category of questions is problematic, for whatever reason, so we're simply eliminating that category from the site." Unfortunately some very good questions are occasionally asked in those categories, and if you don't have some wiggle room, they can get caught in the rip currents.

user55340

@RobertHarvey My goal with TDD is to produce code I don't have to fix later... because I want to be lazy about it. Its not about doing QA - its making sure things that were broke don't have to be fixed again. "Pure" TDD is... a fools errand of trying to eliminate the QA team.

durron597

3:07 AM

@RobertHarvey But score isn't a good judge

Robert Harvey

That's not really the kind of testing that I mean. QA people don't practice TDD.

user55340

Nope - they don't believe in the happy path... if they do, they're bad QA.

user55340

(And this goes back to your different views)

Robert Harvey

TDD is incompatible with the kind of testing that a QA person does.

user55340

The coder believes their code is working perfectly. They already accounted for everything that could be broken and have it working properly.

user55340

3:09 AM

The QA team believes the code is broken and they will find out how.

Robert Harvey

Yes, exactly. Ergo my statement about the diametrically opposed roles.

user55340

Yep. Having me test my code won't find bugs because I already accounted for every code path and input I could think of.

user55340

TDD, though, is writing the tests (all the things I can think of) before I write the code.

user55340

The key possible gain there is that I don't have a happy path. The code isn't working yet - it is indeed broken or nonexistent.

Robert Harvey

There are things like white box testing that can find stuff before the QA team sees it. I tried Pex a couple of times, but I got tired of it crashing my IDE, so.

user55340

3:10 AM

So I, the developer, am not coming into the test with preconceptions.

user55340

Well, I am, but I don't have preconceptions about how the code is working yet.

durron597

2

Q: How much to each part?

I have been involved in a project and now it is coming to an end. The good news is the company will start to commercialize the software which is specific software to ISPs. As a programmer / developer of the project, I intend to still support the project, attend to new custommer customizations, b...

freelancing business job-definition

Robert Harvey

I already cast a close vote on that.

Nuke, just for the title.

durron597

@RobertHarvey I know, I'm just trying to get one more from a lurker

like @psr maybe

Freelancing should probably be removed also

Honestly I know if Thomas were here he would just delete it

user55340

@durron597 You should send him a hard copy of a Haskell manual as a thank you.

durron597

5:04 AM

STCI Status: career-development 96 / new-job 21 / interview 228 / work-environment 94 / experience 38 / employment 28

Duga

7:35 AM

@Pang Have you looked at the age of the question? Programmers SE wasn't even thought of, when I asked it. — Boldewyn 54 secs ago

Duga

9:16 AM

Okay, I was just asking how would/could you use the value from this slider (or any slider). I was under the impression this site is for experiences OR enthusiast programmers. I am learning, but I just wanted to know generally what routes would be best for this sort of thing. Could I use show/hide for divs instead of a table for example? — Arron just now

Duga

9:53 AM

You should post this question in this programmers forum: programmers.stackexchange.com — rghome 53 secs ago

durron597

1:06 PM

Do we want this question?

Thomas Owens

@durron597 Nothing is screaming "no", but maybe I'm missing something.

durron597

@ThomasOwens I'm trying to decide if I should flag for migration or not. I feel like it could be written a little better, but I'm more concerned that it might not be off topic for SO.

Thomas Owens

If the person is looking for design information, then it's off-topic on SO I think.

Like high level design type content.

Duga

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it belongs on Programmers.SE as it is about "software architecture and design", and it is not about a "specific programming problem" — durron597 7 secs ago

durron597

Flagged it.

user55340

1:59 PM

philosophy?

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT STCI that.

durron597

@MichaelT What @ThomasOwens said.

durron597

2:11 PM

@MichaelT meta.stackexchange.com/a/257358/200235

@MichaelT Is this your deleted account id? meta.stackoverflow.com/a/262080/1768232

André

2:29 PM

After large code refactor, tests passed at first run, scary.

enderland

@André there be dragons lurking!

user55340

@durron597 yep.

durron597

@MichaelT I just answered that myself. 10 months later, no love.

Thomas Owens

@André Your tests are incomplete.

Sorry.

André

@ThomasOwens, nods

user41796

2:38 PM

@MichaelT When did you have that account deleted?

user55340

@GlenH7 I'd have to go poke around the transcripts and such. Gnat was the first to notice.

durron597

@MichaelT You still haven't really explained why

user41796

Too tired of FGITW? :-)

durron597

@GlenH7 Too tired of getting ignored on MSO, I'm assuming.

user55340

@durron597 fundamentally disappointed with the moderation policies and disagreements on meta. It was taking too much time and (emotional) energy.

user41796

2:46 PM

I can relate to that. Had been pondering a similar line of thought this AM

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT Have you participated since the Meta.SE / Meta.SO split?

It's much better now, IMO.

user55340

@ThomasOwens quite a bit.

durron597

@ThomasOwens His account deletion was much more recent than that

Personally, you can just decide to do something else, it's not necessary to actually delete the account, unless you change your mind

user55340

That was part of the problem. I was #4 on mso participation.

user41796

That's lots of effort for marginal returns

durron597

2:48 PM

It's so absurdly ridiculous that he gets credited for the question's 157k views for posting an answer 4 years later. Broken stat is broken, imo. — canon 10 mins ago

user55340

@durron597 it is a walking away and a commitment to walking away. With the direction I saw, my contributions to mso were not positive for me or the site.

durron597

@MichaelT Understandable.

user55340

Meatball wiki is a fork of c2 that focuses on online communities. It is largely frozen now, but there is much good information in it. In particular (relating to me on MSO) meatballwiki.org/wiki/GoodBye

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