Game Development

I went ahead and took a stab at it for you. Hint: It totally is one of the unexpected solutions.

With the magical cancelling imaginary

user92578

Ah, okay

user92578

So what's a good way of approaching this?

user92578

4:06 PM

Now with the parameter-testing?

@Chris yes

user92578

Throwing in some values for X and trying to get the Y from that?

It might be helpful to work through one like that

user92578

oh and thanks for doing this mick

np!

user92578

4:07 PM

i bet you'd had something more interesting/important to do

lol, I was just about to say "I'd have to get to work otherwise" :P

user92578

OH

user92578

Well then :D

user92578

I'm happy to be your excuse

user92578

What does radcan stand for?

4:09 PM

@Tyyppi_77 What are you going to use Brezier cyrbws for?

user92578

Tween curves

?

user92578

Modifying a lerp time value

user92578

So instead of v = lerp(a, b, t);

user92578

I'll do v = lerp(a, b, predefined_curve(t));

user92578

4:10 PM

Plus I also love to learn about math stuff

What use would that have in your game? Also me too which is why I'm curious :)

user92578

I'd use it for stuff that I lerp

user92578

For example, I could bounce the menus in in a cool way from the bottom of the screen

Which would have what effectm

user92578

It wouldn't just linearly move into position, but instead maybe go a bit over the wanted position, and then return

user92578

4:16 PM

So with the three equations I got

user92578

How do I convert them easily into a function that I can call with the parameters a & b?

OMGtechy

And on the pedestal these words appear: "And on the pedestal these words appear: "And on the pedestal these words appear: "And ...

I had an acid trip exactly like that once

user92578

lol

@Tyyppi_77 That part can be tricky, I try to simplify the math until you don't mind typing it out

But if you want to just stack up a big fat closed form solution, maxima provides a function optimize(%) which breaks up common sub-expressions into variables for you

And then you can grind(%) that to a raw form where I could give you a horrible piece of code I hacked together that converts that result into C++

user92578

4:22 PM

Well that's not that nice

user92578

I guess I could just copy and of the equations and paste that into a function declaration thing

I recommend you break up the code the same way the logic is divided

Also, you probably don't need an exact solution at all, a rough approximation is probably fine

I'm saying, instead of having a perfect closed form solution for the inverse of your cubic, you could use a numerical method like newton's instead.

Probably just an iteration or two is "good enough" to feel right

Then you can plug that approximate t value into the other half of your Bezier vector

user92578

It's not the first one either, is it?

It was the first one, for me

user92578

Oh...

user92578

4:26 PM

Hmm

It was really horrible and annoying to work with in maxima

user92578

solve_t(a,b,x):=(the equation here);

user92578

SolveBezier(x1, y1, x2, y2, t):=Cubic(0, y1, y2, 1, solve_t(x1, x2, t));

It can't gracefully cancel out all the imaginary numbers for some reason, I had to force it with float(realpart(%)) after I tried to get a specific value

(which is SUPER sketchy, we just happen to know the imaginary part is zero)

user92578

Oh yeah, that works

user92578

4:28 PM

cubic-bezier.com/#0,1.4,1,1.2

user92578

So what that curve

user92578

A "t" or "x" of 0.7 returns ~1.14

I believe you're breaking the special case that makes life easy there :P

user92578

Which corresponds to the 114% in the editor

user92578

Did I do something wrong and got lucky, is that what you're saying?

4:29 PM

I'm just saying, be suspicious of how it goes over the top

You might have cut the function into sections by doing that

user92578

I seem to get valid numbers with this

Emphasis on might

user92578

I could probably try to plot this

Do.

user92578

How did that work again...

user92578

4:32 PM

y=float(realpart(SolveBezier(0, 1.4, 1, 1.2, x)));

user92578

something like that?

user92578

Oh yeah, that looks right

there is a subst([var1 = val1, var2 = val2], expression); tool btw

user92578

user92578

Could I now say that I have the mathematical way to solve these?

4:36 PM

Looks good to me, looks so good I'd give you that without a formal proof

user92578

Now I just need a way to solve that reasonably with code

jeez I need to upgrade, they have the plots in-line all mathematica style now

back in the day, calling plot2d meant another process would start with a pipe to gnuplot in another window :P

user92578

wxplot2d

user92578

So how would you suggest I start simplifying? the equation?

@Tyyppi_77 Jesus titty fucking christ nuggets, batman.

user92578

4:40 PM

what?

You saved me from disappointment lol, they didn't implement the most important feature from mathematica's graph interface

I would have been pissed if I upgraded

user92578

oh okay

Oh, @Tyyppi_77, is your question still active?

user92578

the simplifying? yeah

Well to outline my method, I try to use analytic knowledge to split problems into simpler components

We've already split it into "invert cubic" -> "evaluate bezier at t"

user92578

4:46 PM

oh and is there a call that spits out all the equations in all the functions I've nested?

It always does that

You have to put a single quote before a function name, if you don't want that

So, evaluate bezier is simple enough right? We can lob that chunk off and call it done?

user92578

Which part is that?

user92578

The Cubic(0, y1, y2, 1, t())?

After you have t, when you put it back in to get y, yes that.

user92578

yeah that's simple enough

user92578

4:49 PM

i think i just borke maxima

You probably did :P

It's way too easy to break

user92578

it's stuck calculating realpart(SolveBezier(x1, y1, x2, y2, t))

user92578

Wait but now if I quit, I lose everything right?

Yeah sounds about right, you can give it a half hour, or click the red stop button at the top

the stop sign with the X

user92578

okay

user92578

4:50 PM

it's nor responding to clicks

It takes a while to respond usually :P

user92578

how long while?

also, it might just be crashed fully lol, it's written in LISP

user92578

lol

@Tyyppi_77 Usually only a few seconds after pressing the stop sign

Should have come back by now

I should have warned you, this one of the programs where I save religiously

user92578

4:52 PM

yeah i think it's lost

It's not so bad

user92578

and definitely not your fault

I still have mine, I can copy paste it to you :P

cubic(a,b,c,d,t):=lerp(lerp(lerp(a,b,t),lerp(b,c,t),t),
      lerp(lerp(b,c,t),lerp(c,d,t),t),t);

user92578

I think I saved it

user92578

I killed a process from task manager that I thought was maxima

4:52 PM

It's not even anything too long to type anyways

user92578

turns out it was the match process?

user92578

yeah, i would've survived :)

@Tyyppi_77 maxima is actually a command line program, and wxMaxima is just a shell for it

user92578

ah, right

user92578

okay, to the simplifying

4:56 PM

Alright, so the problem at this point is that you want the inverse of a cubic

user92578

The big part, right?

I see two totally different routes

To keep everything analytic: You could find the determinant and then decide how to get the real valued answer

To hack shit together quick as fuck: You could numerically approximate it

user92578

What kind of results would the approximation give me?

Approximate ones lol

user92578

Well maybe lets give that one a go then

5:02 PM

Alright, the numerical solution is actually easier anyways because we can avoid complex numbers. We'll get back to the closed form solution later

@Tyyppi_77 How's your calculus? Can you understand derivatives easily?

user92578

Not at all

fuck! lol

It's ok, we can avoid that too

user92578

We haven't gotten into derivatives at school yet... which is a lame excuse, but anyways

We'll use bisection, which only relies on the intermediate value theorem

user92578

But it's the first course of the next school year

5:04 PM

Which, is just the formal way of saying that..... if a line goes somewhere without breaking, it had to cross the halfway point :P

user92578

okay

So lets come up with the equation you're trying to solve, in a simple form

That's cubic(0, x1, x2, 1, t) = x right?

Chris

Holy shit, 5-second compile times now. All converted to C#.

user92578

yup

user92578

Chris nice :D

5:06 PM

@Chris ballin' !

ok @Tyyppi_77 so Wikipedia's page is a bit long for how simple the idea is, but just in case I'll leave it here as a reference if you want to look

Bisection method

The bisection method in mathematics is a root-finding method that repeatedly bisects an interval and then selects a subinterval in which a root must lie for further processing. It is a very simple and robust method, but it is also relatively slow. Because of this, it is often used to obtain a rough approximation to a solution which is then used as a starting point for more rapidly converging methods. The method is also called the interval halving method, the binary search method, or the dichotomy method. == The method == The method is applicable for numerically solving the equation f(x) = 0 for...

It's the core of binary search, btw

I'm gonna make this 1 step extra complex, just so it will be simpler later

if cubic(0, x1, x2, 1, t) = x is true, then so is cubic(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x = 0

So we've transformed your problem into root finding

user92578

okay, makes sense

f(t) := cubic(0, x1, x2, 1, t) - x

(you don't have to do that in maxima, just being explicit)

So to start with bisection, @Tyyppi_77, we need to know a number below the root, and a number above it

user92578

yeah I got that from the wikipedia

Alright, let me know if you have any questions about it

It's really a dirt simple algorithm lol, you always check the middle, and then replace the left or the right

user92578

So basically we get the two numbers, calculate the value of the function with the center point between those two, and then replace either the left or the right limit, and repeat?

5:15 PM

Yes, the "confusion zone" will cut in half every time

user92578

Right

user92578

Uuuhh I gotta go now

user92578

We'll pick up from here sometime?

sure, and good luck when you try it

user92578

thanks a TON, I'll see if I can get anything done by my own :D

5:18 PM

np! that stuff should get you a working implementation

5:47 PM

Good guy Mick

6:34 PM

@Tyyppi_77 "radicand canonicalize" I'd guess.

Jon

6:56 PM

anyone here ever own a tiguan?

huh?

oh, I have not. I haven't even owned any car

7:09 PM

win 7: search D: for something. takes long time. rightclick thing, show location. hit back, it must re-search D: for everything again

user4704

7:35 PM

Caching? what's that?

user4704

Search in windows has basically always been shit.

6

user4704

As far as I can remember.

Everything for windows is pretty good

but windows is trash because it's not *nix

@Honeybunch well .. neither is Ubuntu

*nix would be a better term

7:37 PM

@Honeybunch yes

that doesnt really change the fact that Ubuntu is crap

ubuntu is pretty good if you want something that just works

Fedora is a good alternative

but Fedora hates my GPU

@JoshPetrie agreed

Agreed. I use it occasionally because most things have standard builds for it, but I really like Arch

I haven't wanted to spend the time to set up Arch but I might move to something more minimal

I should really just pick something and stick with it

7:39 PM

just this discussion about which linux is one reason it's not gotten wider adoption

Have a link: evolutionlinux.com

yeah I've seen that

I'm thinking about giving it a shot

I really want a rolling release distro

Arch is great

The AUR is also really awesome

@Almo GNU/Linux has a huge issue of a duplication of efforts. Ironically that is also one of its biggest strengths

@Pip Yeah I like what I've seen of it

I tried Manjaro but it was pretty heavy

<- FreeBSD user

7:43 PM

I'd love to try FreeBSD if there was any hope of it ever supporting my GPU

AMD card?

because there are not significant issues for Nvidia cards

AMD 7970M w/ i7

from what I know AMD is stuck in some copyright/patent related problem for non-windows drivers

lemme check

they've been putting effort into their Open Source drivers but

PRIME offloading is pretty shaky with Steam and AMD cards right now

AMD is a tiny company , compared to Nvidia

7:46 PM

works fine for personal projects though

I know :( I wish AMD weren't the underdog because their products have served me pretty well

and NVidia no OSS drivers

lemme see what's with the support

yeah, looks like there is only software-level driver support

basically the picture will be there, but no HW level acceleration

What are you referring to?

Endless Space 2 has been announced! :D

8:03 PM

cool

Holy shit! Stack exchange has ads for low rep users!

does it?

It totally does lol

user4704

Yup.

@MickLH and you learned about it just now?

were you making a sock-puppet?

@Lokkij "Endless Space 1" has a really shitty AI. I hope they will fix it in 2nd version.

8:17 PM

RPS has a discussion with a police officer about police games and policing in general

8:44 PM

I forgot to document a section of my code.. Now I hate myself

//Checks to see if the Item attempting to be added is the same as the one in this container.. I think? Why didn't I document this code! >_<"
                if (existing_item == i)
                    return true;

Classic ..

Does anyone here own TIS-100? If so, you should totally friend me on steam so we can compete :D

ahahah

I've been considering getting it

but haven't had the courage

and too much LoL and Rocket League to play

It doesn't start off that hard luckily xD

you can add me anyway for Infinifactory competition :)

almo2001

It's also really cheap :D

8:58 PM

yeah it is

Wait.. Is that actual assembly?

Hmm that's a game I don't own yet.. but I'm definitely considering it

i won't be logged in to steam until tomorrow

Zachtronics games in general are pretty good

And the competing with friends aspect is fun

agreed

9:01 PM

Lokki is that real assembly?

one of my infinifactory solutions is way to the left on the histogram for blocks used

it's either real, or very close

I'm pretty sure it's not, and the avilable instructions are pretty limited

6502 doesn't have many instructions, really

I see. Shame though :P

so perhaps it's real assembly, from decades ago

9:03 PM

It has NOP, MOV, SAV, SWP, ADD, SUB, NEG, JMP, and JEZ and variants

If that makes any sense at all :P

@tereško I knew an imbec... someone would say this ;) and no, I was following a user's profile through their next achievement

it does :)

@Lokkij JEZ that's a lot

:P

"The Assembly Language Puzzle Game You Never Asked For"

@jon removing captcha this weekend (asssuming I get to it)

it will remain for first (account creating) submission only

9:12 PM

@MickLH were you having issues with spelling?

I was hinting at what I originally thought might happen, and what that implies given how it played out ;)

ok, that will do too

?

Noun: imbecile (plural imbeciles)

(obsolete) A person with limited mental capacity who can perform tasks and think only like a young child, in medical circles meaning a person who lacks the capacity to develop beyond the mental age of a normal five to seven-year-old child.

Adjective: imbecile (comparative more imbecile, superlative most imbecile)

(dated) Destitute of strength, whether of body or mind; feeble; impotent; especially, mentally weak.
hospitals for the imbecile and insane...

@MickLH this is the spelling, in case you want to use it again in future

Now I'm severely questioning my original retraction of the preconceived label, but I'll write it off as human emotions :P

9:17 PM

oh ... it's even better than that. You didn't even know what the word meant.

wonderful

You can feel free to explain :)

Aidan Mueller

9:36 PM

I never realized how many flat-earthers there are.

Are most of them just trolls?

Run over trees as a rock, save a life: store.steampowered.com/app/391410

wow, @MickLH, so you flag me for saying "balls" after you call me "imbecile"

and when flags cause me to be muted you write

29 mins ago, by MickLH

You can feel free to explain :)

that made me feel physically disgusted

congratulations

Guys no drama plz okay thx

9:51 PM

pfft I like drama. can't defend mick this time, though, because of his flag spam last time I saw drama happen.

before that Mick was always the victim of retarded flags

@AidanMueller were you watching Martymer or CoolHardLogic?

Shen Ruki

@IcyDefiance you gotta admit that was a good play though lol

wtf this thing just started giving me desktop notifications. I had that disabled. stupid chat.

but...I don't really think flag spam is a good anything.

I hope we're cool @tereško, I am totally light hearted and would rather collaborate on ideas than play semantics any day.

9:56 PM

@MickLH are you a sociopath?

Honestly, outside of Psycho (the bad one) (oh shit he's actually here now), I've never seen anyone say anything worth flagging in this room.

actually if he's here now, he might have been the one to flag you, lol. he would do that.

Didn't he get banned?

yeah, at least twice, I think for a month each

apparently it expired though

he's Blender Warrior now

I know because he's the only person I have on ignore, and in the userlist his icon is small to me

I see

well .. now I too gave a tiny avatar for stackexchange part of chat

10:01 PM

yeah, you're not the first one to ignore mick, though I think you're the first I've sided with.

that hurts, @IcyDefiance, we've got history

Aidan Mueller

@tereško Just random conspiracy theorists on YouTube.

BTW. Get out some vinegar so that you can get rid of the chem clouds.

oh, you are watching the "world of batshit"

when you are done with batshit, try this list: youtube.com/playlist?list=PLHLnw5-2vMBRvibTnTI89CaPt6M-WI0R4

I have discovered the magic of Tree Style Tabs in Firefox and I can never go back

Jon

@Almo yay

10:28 PM

Windows has basically always been shit.

5

it's just less shit nowdays

but right now it's being very shit, as it does not want to install any of the 83 updates because of one of them would not install

I uninstalled VS13 and started installing 15, but I could not because it required some update which would not install, and after several reboots I can not get any windows updates to install

thanks microsoft, now I don't have my dev tool

@Lasse Sounds like me trying to uninstall a broken update yesterday which prevents me from gettin Win10

lol or went to install win 10 a bit too quickly

im going to wait a month till they fix all those bugs :P

I didn't even install win10 yet

???

it's just 8.1 being shit

10:35 PM

then no idea :P

there are no dx12 games in my library

no need to rush

windows 8.1 dont listen to Lasse, you're a special OS in your own special way

you have no idea. you shouldn't defend him just because one time he gave you advice that worked out for you.

Icy Please pardon me

I mistaken the person

ah okay. there is more than one psycho.

10:41 PM

I thought u were talking about selfless psycho

Wait r u?

nah, selfless seemed cool to me

yep :D sry again for confusing them

I've seen 3 psychos in this chat so far. One was a dick, one was really a dick, and then selfless came along and stopped me from hating all psychos in the world.

lol i think i remember that first one... i think it was the hilarious troll

wasn't a troll. just some kid with mental issues.

10:43 PM

LOL

mrlovenstein.com/comic/364

yes, it works

during college I had a professor who asked everyone if they knew where the any button was on the keyboard

jokingly, I mean. he wasn't actually stupid.

Lmao

10:49 PM

all these keyboards have this Pause/Break key, I want to modify it to say "Any"

it's so useless otherwise

once I played a game that actually used it to pause

don't remember what game it was...

:O

Q: Why do modern keyboards have Scroll Lock?

17

The Scroll Lock key is useless in the modern day, and some higher-end keyboards don't even have it: Same can be said for the Pause and Break keys, but however it pauses the BIOS POST output on many computers, so it's a useful key (some older games also use it to pause the game). The Scroll Lo...

anyway, I got that comic from here: blog.codinghorror.com/doing-terrible-things-to-your-code