Game Development

Hearts of Iron III and all its expansions are 75% off on steam. If you're interested in that kind of shit, get the whole package for only €10. It's great.

Almo

what is it

Mutch95

Because it's suited more to one area of study, it doesn't go from science, to art, to some, to business.

Lokkij

@Mutch95 Going to university at age 16?

OMGtechy

9:08 PM

18

Mutch95

Yeah 18 lol

OMGtechy

@Lokkij I would be if I had any money

Lokkij

@Almo It's one of Paradox's grand strategies, set in WWII. Once figure it out it's great, but the learning curve is more of a learning wall.

Almo

ahha

Mutch95

Although, I don't know if I should do Game Development or Computer Science

Lokkij

9:09 PM

@Mutch95 I thought you said you were going to university this year.

Almo

i'm sure i won't have time to plya it

still need to play some wasteland 2

OMGtechy

@Lokkij he's 18

or 17

Almo

and finish campaign on heart of the wwswarm

Mutch95

Lokklj: No :p

Lokkij

It says 16 on his profile.

Mutch95

9:10 PM

Turning 17 this year

Uni next year

2016

OMGtechy

ah, well when you said 12th grade I looked it up and it said last year so I assumed you were like 18

Mutch95

It is the last year haha.

OMGtechy

@Mutch95 computer science btw rather than game dev IMO

Lokkij

@Mutch95 Watch out with Game Development. There are a lot of 'fun' gamedev courses which teach you nothing and just want to get you graduated as fast as possible.

OMGtechy

^

Mutch95

9:11 PM

I heard some parts of computer science is extremely difficult?

OMGtechy

that's the point

you're there to learn not to have an easy time

Icy Defiance

the gamedev course at my school is pretty good, but it depends on the uni

and "computer science" is extremely broad, so what they'll actually teach you depends even more on the uni than with gamedev

Mutch95

No like I fear I may never wrap my head around the theory

Icy Defiance

"computer science" sounds better on a resume though, especially if you're not applying to a game studio

Lokkij

@Mutch95 related: youtube.com/watch?v=nmdGZk-fF98

Mutch95

9:13 PM

Well I thought, what If their was no game studios around what would I do.

OMGtechy

@Mutch95 yeah, it's more general and will probably teach you more too.

Mutch95

Lokklj: thanks

OMGtechy

you'll get through the theory just fine if you set your mind to it

Mutch95

It's surely about programming?

OMGtechy

►

...wow.

Icy Defiance

9:15 PM

"computer science" is usually more about how computers work than actual programming

but it'll definitely involve programming

Mutch95

I'll have to look into it

OMGtechy

put it this way; I wish I'd done computer science sometimes

AttackingHobo

Yes. Computer science literally breaks down how computing, software and hardware work into the most basic levels, and then builds up into higher level languages

OMGtechy

I never went to uni mind

Mutch95

What!

You need an OP 11 for game development, and an OP 12 for Computer science lol.

OMGtechy

9:21 PM

OP?

Mutch95

It like an education ranking or some shit lol

From the courses I'm doing I'l have a rank equivalent to an OP 8 - 9

OMGtechy

Well if you really want to do it nobody will stop you

I know someone who failed primary school and they wouldn't let him into secondary school

he talked his way into it

and then after failing that

Mutch95

hahaha

OMGtechy

into college

and then after doing meh in college, into uni

Mutch95

wow

OMGtechy

9:23 PM

he got a good degree

Hi Everyone!!!

@TheMuffinCoder hey

Hi OMGtechy :D

@Mutch95 my point is, if you don't get it via the academic route, there are other ways

Mutch95

Their always is

OMGtechy

9:25 PM

I don't have a degree, I studied music at college, yet here I am.

I'm not saying don't go through education; it teaches you a lot and makes getting into the first job easier, but there's always a way.

Mutch95

Lol do they make you do speeches in uni.

OMGtechy

I wouldn't know.

I haven't been :P

Mutch95

haha, though your mates might of

OMGtechy

yeah but I never asked them anything like that

TheMuffinCoder

wait ur going to uni next year?

OMGtechy

9:29 PM

your skills are what matter, degrees drive you to learn those skills and convince management that you have them

TheMuffinCoder

Am 16 but am only in 10th grade >.>

Mutch95

hehehe :p

TheMuffinCoder

Then again, I blame the school system

OMGtechy

@TheMuffinCoder you written any C++ yet?

TheMuffinCoder

I couldn't go to school when I was 5 because my birthday was in November

Mutch95

9:30 PM

Oh look

TheMuffinCoder

Had to wait till the next year

@OMGtechy Not any games

Just console programs...

Mutch95

I can do Computer Science and minor in Computer Games Studies

TheMuffinCoder

I need to learn Libdgx before saturday

OMGtechy

@Mutch95 that sounds like a good plan!

TheMuffinCoder

Am going to wake up at 6. AM and code + draw till 9 PM

And am starting that game from scratch

OMGtechy

9:31 PM

@TheMuffinCoder console programs are still C++ :)

Joe

@TheMuffinCoder any special occasion?

Mutch95

Think I might do that :D

TheMuffinCoder

@Joe Nope

Lokkij

@Mutch95 That sounds much better than just going for GameDev.

Mutch95

Them my degree won't be too specific to get a job elsewhere

OMGtechy

9:32 PM

It sounds like a really good idea

TheMuffinCoder

Am going to drink a cup of coffee that day with 7 spoonfuls of coffee, lots of sugar and NO MILK

Chris

general programming is great

Joe

glass door just put out a best industries to get a job in 2015

TheMuffinCoder

I should be able to finish a full demo that day

OMGtechy

You can brush up on your skills through coursera too beforehand @Mutch95

@Chris agreed

Mutch95

9:33 PM

coursera?

OMGtechy

@TheMuffinCoder make sure you, yaknow, live life too

TheMuffinCoder

Hey since u guys are talking about uni, I have a question too

OMGtechy

go for it

TheMuffinCoder

So I want to go for Computer science

But not sure, what specific thing in CS to do

I'll do anything in CS

Everything is so much fun :D

Mutch95

Most likely C they'll be doing wouldn't it?

OMGtechy

9:34 PM

@Mutch95 bit of everything

C is not hard

Mutch95

ah alright

TheMuffinCoder

but didn't u guys tell me using C was like being a manochist

Mutch95

No, I mean if you come from other C based languages shouldn't be hard to learn

Lokkij

@Mutch95 Most likely you'll start with Java or Python, but I can't imagine not being taught C in a CS crouse.

OMGtechy

^

Mutch95

9:35 PM

Java is ugly :p

TheMuffinCoder

Well I know Java, am set to go

OMGtechy

@TheMuffinCoder there's nothing wrong with C, it's just not the best too for every job

TheMuffinCoder

Hey do you guys think the Military has use for CS?

OMGtechy

yes

TheMuffinCoder

I wonder if building drones are fun

Almo

9:35 PM

@TheMuffinCoder C is for masochism

TheMuffinCoder

@Almo :D some like a good languages

Almo

scanf shudder

OMGtechy

@TheMuffinCoder that's a difficult job and also requires some hardware knowledge

Mutch95

xD

OMGtechy

I think hello world in C++ is horrible whilst we're talking about languages

TheMuffinCoder

9:36 PM

cant wait to crash my computer

OMGtechy

and I'm quite the C++ evangelist

TheMuffinCoder

@OMGtechy yea, hello world in C is easier than in C++

Hey guys, so what do you guys recommend to specialize in CS for uni?

OMGtechy

what are the choices?

TheMuffinCoder

Anything in CS

OMGtechy

...which is?

Mutch95

9:38 PM

Although minoring in Programming Principals could be good aswell

TheMuffinCoder

computer science?

OMGtechy

Cat grooming and CS?

Almo

// my first program in C++
#include <iostream>

int main()
{
  std::cout << "Hello World!";
}

that's not so bad

Lokkij

@Mutch95 Depending on the course, you can do multiple minors.

Mutch95

I think i can select 2 units

TheMuffinCoder

9:39 PM

-[------->+<]>-.-[->+++++<]>++.+++++++..+++.[--->+<]>-----.--[->++++<]>-.--------.+++.------.--------.

OMGtechy

you mean having to know about functions, namespaces, includes (and therefore the preprocessor), objects, stream operators and buffered IO is not bad for hello world?

TheMuffinCoder

Hello world in bf

OMGtechy

@TheMuffinCoder from wiki ;)

TheMuffinCoder

HE KNOWS

OMGtechy

Python has the best hello world imo

print("hello world")

TheMuffinCoder

9:40 PM

print "hello world"

OMGtechy

Or that in python 2 yes

TheMuffinCoder

Python 3, sorry sir we can't understand you, please put ()

OMGtechy

aha

TheMuffinCoder

xD I found it funny how just because of that, it broke many of the old python programs

OMGtechy

that's not the worst of it by far

there are many things :P

TheMuffinCoder

9:41 PM

But I like python 3 :p

OMGtechy

so do I

TheMuffinCoder

But then people just wont let go of the old python

OMGtechy

what I hate more is different versions of standard python libraries for the same version of python

TheMuffinCoder

we need progress!

OMGtechy

Try using requests in Python 2.7 and weep when you realise you need to write two versions to get some json out of it

if they have the old one, it's .json["whatever"]. if it's the new it's .json()["whatever"]

I look forward to when my work replaces Python 2 with Python 3, but I dunno if it'll happen in my lifetime aha

TheMuffinCoder

9:43 PM

Python creators... if we keep backward compatibility people wont use the new version. Guess we have to break the old scripts then. That'll force them to change

OMGtechy

I think it's a good model

TheMuffinCoder

breaking old scripts?

OMGtechy

having a "new" and "old" version that is maintained

with new getting the cool stuff and old getting bug fixes

TheMuffinCoder

ten years later...

here we have python 2.7.999999

here we have the same python 3.2

xD

OMGtechy

They will eventually drop Python 2 altogether

but they're giving people a lot of time to move

I have to write Python 2 at work, since the systems we have only have Python 2 and when I asked for a new version I got a firm no

default is Python 2.4

TheMuffinCoder

9:46 PM

2.4!!?!?!?!

Aren't we up to 2.7 right now?

OMGtechy

I add a bit of code to everything I write at the top which stops the code from running with anything less than 2.7, that's my little bit of a nudge to get people to move along

the kernel is 10 years old too

GCC 4.X

TheMuffinCoder

is it a potato?

OMGtechy

no it's actually a huge cluster of many thousands of CPUS with about 256GB of RAM each

I am one of the top users of it xD

TheMuffinCoder

I wonder if building a R-Pi cluster is worth it

OMGtechy

►

for fun if nothing else

TheMuffinCoder

9:49 PM

fun? :(

OMGtechy

well if you don't find it fun don't bother

TheMuffinCoder

No I find it fun :D I wish it had another purpose as well though :P

OMGtechy

you'll learn a lot in the process :)

Lasse

how much processing power there is

is that any good for rendering quality 3d images or movies? :P

OMGtechy

no idea, but @ 1Ghz each they can't be that bad :) plus they have a decent GPU in them considering

►

Lasse

10:03 PM

I wonder if he gets many phone calls daily

OMGtechy

not on that phone I imagine aha

Lasse

no but on the number he dialed

OMGtechy

ohhh right

true that

I wouldn't dial a number starting in 08 though

not as bad as 09 but still

Lasse

why not?

OMGtechy

over here that means they charge for the call

except 0800 which is free

09 is super premium

Lasse

10:10 PM

oh

OMGtechy

like a few £ a minute sometimes

used for voting in competitions on TV etc.

08 is typically business support etc

07 is mobiles

Lasse

0x are landline numbers in finland, and it usually costs more to call from them than with cell phones, in addition to their huge monthly cost

OMGtechy

oh wow

Lasse

040, 0400, 045 and 050 are regular mobile numbers used by consumers and companies

0700 are the ones that cost something, fortune tellers and phone porn in addition to TV voting

OMGtechy

I do think landlines at home will go soon

@Lasse so basically, all mobiles in the UK are hookers

Lasse

10:17 PM

yeah

:D

OMGtechy

aha

boost is a wonderful thing

Lasse

the library?

OMGtechy

yeah

not the drug

Lasse

yeah, I guess it is, I haven't used it though since my last C++ is so far away in time...... damn I should do something with C++

OMGtechy

you keep saying this :P

Lasse

10:24 PM

yes

OMGtechy

I should really write my own library of tools; I keep rewriting the same stuff when I start making a new project

like a messenger

mind you, it varies each time

Lasse

make generic one

or modify some base code

OMGtechy

it is generic in its nature, I just never end up moving the source out the project aha

I always end up writing a Messenger type that sends messages between objects

think I'll change it a little this time, it's been a year or so since I last wrote one

which is quite long

I'll thread it this time because why not

Lasse

yeah why not

OMGtechy

I had to write a hardware level multithreaded non blocking message queue to get my current job, so I'm sure I can handle it aha

Lasse

10:29 PM

I wonder when gaming PCs gets out of the loop that games work better with fewer but faster cores, and then people buy the processors with less cores because the games work better on them

parallelism++

OMGtechy

If you think about it, the term C++ can be interpreted as a slight stab at the language, as what it means is, "it'll get better, eventually"

Maybe we should call it ++C now, since C++11 and C++14 have made a big difference

++C being "it got better"

Lasse

I don't think it will stop there, which ++C would imply

OMGtechy

maybe ++C++ "it got better and is going to continue that way"

Lasse

lol

"but that's not valid C++" "it will be"

OMGtechy

xD

I wonder if anyone has seriously written code like ++x++

doMath(++x++) actually makes sense, but is horrible and should be banned

which is probably why it is

Lasse

10:33 PM

maybe someone wants to replace a for loop that has i+=2 with a while loop

OMGtechy

they could just write += 2 aha

Lasse

it wouldn't be the same thing if it was somefunc(++i++)

OMGtechy

no

if it had any meaning, which it doesn't, it'd probably be the same as

Lasse

i++;
somefunc(i++);

OMGtechy

i += 1;
somefunc(i);
i += 1;

++i you mean :P

Lasse

10:35 PM

no

then it would be

somefunc(++i);
i++;

OMGtechy

I mean the first i++

not the second

Lasse

well, I'm unfortunately not used to type that :P

OMGtechy

there are some genuine measurable benefits to it

Lasse

in C# too?

OMGtechy

I don't know about that, I'll google it

hit and miss

sometimes the compiler can optimize it

others it can't

depends on whether it has side effects or not

it's still a micro optimisation though

Lasse

10:40 PM

so if it was on it's own line it would be able to optimize it?

OMGtechy

the operator might have side effects still

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it

Lasse

no I can't sleep, thanks

OMGtechy

aha

Lasse

I've written highly inefficient code

meh

OMGtechy

put it this way, ++i will never be slower and maybe faster, so just use that

if i is a complex type it'll matter more

Lasse

10:41 PM

well, I work with unity that messes performance up more than what ++i would benefit, so

OMGtechy

aha

Unity is a beast that's great when tamed

Lasse

in some cases it's untameable

for example, you can't turn off physics

the overhead is there every frame even if no object has any colliders or anything

OMGtechy

do you lose sleep over that?

Lasse

yes :(

I want my 0.5ms back

OMGtechy

Think of it this way; the biggest overhead for your work is normally your time. In that sense, Unity is quite powerful.

Lasse

10:44 PM

well yeah

OMGtechy

Jon has taken over the star board with his rotators.

Lasse

of course it saves time, but so would any engine with the same capabilities

unity is just something I use because it's the best for multiplatform mobile games

OMGtechy

same

AttackingHobo

Fuck Unity

Lasse

tbh I would be a lot happier if I got money for programming engines, but life's a bitch and I'm happy enough that I got a job in the industry

OMGtechy

10:46 PM

I just quit my lead developer role working on a Unity game to focus on my other job, but my experience with it was great

AttackingHobo

I don't think I've ever used unity for an extended period of time without something breaking

Got a little test working. Published it to web, now all the buttons refuse to work no matter what

OMGtechy

it's not without its problems, but the pros of it outweigh the cons

AttackingHobo

they don't respond to clicks at all visually or firing off any actions

I love Unity. But it seems so fragile!

idkwtf to do other than remake this small test from scratch again

I didn't version control cause it was a 20 min prototype

Lasse

well, at least it was just small

OMGtechy

Unreal is getting tempting

having the full C++ source code is nice

Lasse

10:49 PM

yeah, I'd like to see it used more in mobile though, since that's where my professional interest goes

OMGtechy

indeed, that's my only reservation atm

and the 5% bookkeeping because I'm lazy

I like the fact that with Unity I either pay once or don't pay

with Unreal I have to keep paying them and I am too lazy to do that

AttackingHobo

@OMGtechy no you don't you can stop paying them and keep the source code

you won't be able to update any more from that point

Lasse

you have to pay if you publish

AttackingHobo

Oh sure. but you don't have to keep paying

OMGtechy

@AttackingHobo I'm pretty sure you have to keep paying the 5%

I have no issue with paying monthly for the engine

but paying 5% of income from the game forever is effort

AttackingHobo

10:53 PM

Also pretty sure that its only after a certain amount of profit, but I haven't looked lately

Lasse

wasn't it 100k or something?

OMGtechy

> You agree to pay Epic a royalty equal to 5% of all worldwide gross revenue actually attributable to each Product, regardless of whether such revenue is received by you or any other person or legal entity

Lasse

> Once you ship your game, you owe 5% of gross revenue after the first $3,000 per game per calendar quarter.

OMGtechy

no mention of an upper cap there

I know they do special deals, as dovetail games did that when I went to see them

Lasse

well of course there's no upper cap

I'd be happy to do the extra math to pay the 5% if I got $3000 a month from a single game

as an invidual of course

OMGtechy

10:57 PM

true, didn't know there was a lower limit of 3k

that makes it more appealing

AttackingHobo

So @Joe I wanted to show you this live. But unity buttons broke fucking again. Anyways I got a single camera to switch the RT while its running using the UI.

Lasse

then I would just make another game and get another $3000

AttackingHobo