Game Development

user92578

3:02 PM

@MickLH Also my "assumption" was based on a comment I read on a page that I trust. So my assumption wasn't actually an assumption, since I actually didn't know a thing about atoi.

MickLH

How does it make any sense at all that your assumption is not an assumption... because you assumed it?

user92578

I did not assume anything, I went to that question about converting const char* to int in C++. Then I found a comment saying atoi is not a good solution.

MickLH

Also if you don't feel comfortable or like this is friendly, then lets step away

user92578

That might be a good idea

MickLH

I feel comfortable and friendly, but I can sense that I'm probably the only one

@Tyyppi_77 That comment most likely says it's bad, because it never throws exceptions. So if you give it a bad string, you get undefined behavior.

user92578

3:05 PM

What's actually the thing with not throwing exceptions but letting (or forcing) the user to check for errors?

MickLH

User checking is the "C way" and exceptions are the "C++ way"

Christoph

@Tyyppi_77 if both atoi and the stringstream give you the result you need, it doesn't matter what you choose. Chances are that you will need to get more text input to parse, need better error handling or other features, and then you'll have to go back and expand your input parsing.

MickLH

The C++ elitist assholes will always talk bad about anything which is not the "C++ way", so take ANYTHING you read online or hear from anyone with a grain of salt

Lokkij

Man, setting up the scripting for a CCG is really difficult

Noctrine

I feel like, Mick would make a nice graduate professor.

MickLH

3:06 PM

Actually better put: Humans suck, take everything with a grain of salt.

Noctrine

Knowledgable and Helpful enough, while also effortlessly condescending :p

MickLH

:D

I don't feel superior, I just feel experienced

Almo

ok back, it's much happier

Noctrine

Yeah, it doesn't come off as trying to put people down. It seems more like, completely confidence that you are correct - and limited (or faraway) experience not being correct.

Christoph

@Tyyppi_77 I assume that you're still working on your settings code, so if the number you're trying to parse was generated from a float before, you're probably on the safe side unless the file gets corrupted or it's actually NaN

not float, int it is

user92578

3:08 PM

I don't plan on using floats

user92578

I'll probably stick with integers

Christoph

the point is the same

MickLH

@Noctrine well I have a habit of only talking about what I know, and even though I know it I have a habit of always checking the documentation before I insist it.

BlueBug

5

MickLH

@BlueBug looks fucking awesome!

Almo

3:09 PM

i like your blue bug logo

BlueBug

:D @MickLH ty <3 @Almo >A< ty me too luv the logo. I like butterflies.

SpartanDonut

I don't understand the avoid the red comment and then you smash into red things

But the presentation is great

Pip

agreed

BlueBug

hahaha yeah. My little brother cousin pointed that out as well. "Why would you say avoid them when you break them?"

Christoph

looks like you can destroy the red things when they have a certain orientation

SpartanDonut

3:10 PM

I think I get whats happening

MickLH

I think it means, avoid gettting killed by the red, kill them first

user4704

@BlueBug Reminds me of an iOS roguelike I played once.

user4704

And holy shit it makes my browser chug.

BlueBug

my bad my bad, next time I will upload lower resolution.

It is indeed copy of a mobile game, let me find the original.

Icy Defiance

no need, just don't onebox it

also, if you upload to gfycat instead, the filesize will be a LOT smaller

user4704

3:12 PM

Yeah, I'm not sure why it's so chuggy.

user4704

oh

user4704

that maybe ;P

MickLH

@BlueBug maybe you could put some kind of trim on the dangerous side so it's easy to see where you can attack them?

Christoph

or is it just that whoever attacks destroys the other?

Icy Defiance

gfycat.com/SnarlingUncommonKangaroo

almost 1/3 the size anyway

BlueBug

3:13 PM

@MickLH good idea, good idea. Indeed the original creator of this game implemented that. I should add that as well.

PsychO PhobiA

:17245718

@BlueBug Im back

BlueBug

#Christoph Whoever attacks first gets the kill, @PsychOPhobiA hey :)

user4704

Man, I hate sending "I'm quitting" emails.

MickLH

@Christoph well the 2nd stage had flat sides that bounce you away if you go too close, but the player won when colliding from any other side

Almo

I didn't like it either

MickLH

3:14 PM

lol we could ask @BlueBug

Christoph

@BlueBug thanks for clarifying

PsychO PhobiA

@BlueBug Can you make a game in C# without using XNA?

Almo

sure

Unity

MickLH

you can make a game in your head without using anything

Almo

or many other possible solutions

user92578

3:15 PM

I'm getting error (one of more multiply defined symbols found) because I'm defining specialized C++ method templates in the header file. What's wrong?

Noctrine

:O @JoshPetrie You're no longer making Halo and not afraid of anything?

BlueBug

yah unity

user4704

@Noctrine Not after August 27th.

PsychO PhobiA

I mean nothing

user4704

@PsychOPhobiA Depends what you mean by "nothing."

MickLH

3:15 PM

@Tyyppi_77 linker errors? inline your inline functions

Noctrine

Staying in the games industry?

PsychO PhobiA

Like using a PictureBox and making pictures move and stuff...

user92578

@JoshPetrie Mind if I ask why?

Almo

can you tell us where you're going yet?

user92578

@MickLH Linker

user4704

3:15 PM

You can't make a game in any language without some kind of runtime / support libraries.

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 Not happy here.

user92578

@MickLH Not inline, after the class declaration.

Almo

fight!

user4704

@Almo Undead Labs.

PsychO PhobiA

Head First C# said you can

user4704

3:16 PM

@PsychOPhobiA The BCL is a support library.

PsychO PhobiA

But I am asking you guys to make sure it is valid of course.

user4704

Again, it depends what you mean by "nothing."

Icy Defiance

@PsychOPhobiA PictureBox is still using the System.Windows.Forms library

PsychO PhobiA

@JoshPetrie Oh okay

user4704

You don't have to use XNA, you could use Windows Forms.

user4704

3:16 PM

Or SlimDX / SharpDX.

user4704

Or some OpenGL wrapper.

BlueBug

Here original game which I based on : robotacid.com/flash/ending

Almo

@JoshPetrie have fun that. just looked at their site :)

user4704

Et cetera.

PsychO PhobiA

@JoshPetrie I mean nothing - like no game engine stuff.

Almo

3:17 PM

it will make your life unnecessarily difficult

user4704

@PsychOPhobiA None of those libraries are "game engines."

PsychO PhobiA

Yeah I know, I should have put it all together

Noctrine

XNA isn't a game engine.

PsychO PhobiA

^ ?

Almo

and it doesn't have an acronym

PsychO PhobiA

3:18 PM

Let me look that up

user4704

XNA is more like a framework.

user4704

Unity is more like an engine.

Almo

^

user4704

(Both terms are pretty loosely-defined though.)

PsychO PhobiA

"Why XNA is not considered a game engine"

Icy Defiance

3:18 PM

I just call everything a framework to avoid that argument, lol

Noctrine

I think that from now on, when people say they want to do things the hardest way possible. I'm going to say "Cool" and move on.

7

PsychO PhobiA

Guess you guys were right.

Alex M.

> A game engine is a software framework designed for the creation and development of video games.

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 I mean that using the inline keyword will let the function live in every object code file it touches, with a link once flag so they don't collide

user4704

@Almo It is composed of a lot of former ArenaNet employees, and they sought me out.

Alex M.

3:19 PM

> software framework

> framework

PsychO PhobiA

Oh

Almo

@JoshPetrie Sounds like they are smart. Hope that works out well. :)

Icy Defiance

yeah, engine is a subset of framework

Noctrine

They have the most practical jobs page I've ever seen out of a game company (and most other companies). So wtg!

PsychO PhobiA

hm...

Alex M.

3:19 PM

@JoshPetrie wat, switching jobs?

not liking Microsoft anymore?

user92578

@MickLH Adding inline to the declaration did not solve the error

user4704

@PsychOPhobiA "Game engines" are often more than just libraries and APIs for writing code (like XNA is). They often include a lot of supporting tools, and a more unified, holistic pipeline for content creation, et cetera. Less flexible in general in exchange for more ability to do things faster.

user4704

It's sort of complicated.

user4704

@AlexM. Never really did. Tolerated it for working at 343, but after a few months became unhappy at 343 itself.

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 what? why "include"

user4704

3:21 PM

And at the end of the day it's a waste of time to worry too much about the distinction.

Alex M.

@JoshPetrie isn't that actually a suite formed by the engine and accompanying tools?

user92578

@MickLH whoops

SpartanDonut

@AlexM. Unity isn't a "suite"

user4704

@AlexM. Could look at it that way, lots of people do. Lots of people take the other approach as well.

SpartanDonut

Or I don't consider it a suite anyway

user4704

3:22 PM

@Tyyppi_77 What code are we looking at?

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 Well you can show the actual error if you want :P

SpartanDonut

But it lets me create animations, scripts, materials, etc.

Alex M.

I mean

Noctrine

Aww man, Moonrise looks awesome. I need to get back to coding the things after I finish doing very close to nothing at work today :(

Alex M.

you could develop alternative tools to interact with the engine itself and to replace the original ones

user92578

3:22 PM

error LNK1169: one or more multiply defined symbols found

Alex M.

which kinda separates the engine itself from the tools

Icy Defiance

@PsychOPhobiA. there's no virtue in doing things "raw" or without high level libraries. if you're not using libraries, you'll just have to recreate them. however those libraries were created by people with decades more experience than you, who were (usually) paid specifically to research and create the the library in the best way possible. you're not going to do it better than them.

well, not unless you identify something specific you think you can improve, before you even start

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 did you make all implementations of the function linkonce, and do a clean rebuild?

user92578

Do I need to declare template spesializations in the class declaration?

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 C++ has this concept of the "one definition rule." That, in conjunction with the way that C++ compilers work (each translation unit is compiled on its own and then linked together) can lead to that error.

user4704

3:24 PM

@Tyyppi_77 Why don't you pastebin your current code?

user92578

Great idea

PsychO PhobiA

@IcyDefiance Interesting. So how would anyone create a libary? I mean they use some kind of language but then to make libaries do specific things is a challenge

user92578

pastebin.com/Sat6Y3bN

user4704

@PsychOPhobiA You build on top of other libraries.

user4704

Which are in turn built, at some level, on top of the OS.

user4704

3:25 PM

(and drivers)

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 you mixed together inline style and translation unit style

user92578

So the inline needs to leave?

MickLH

Move the specialized version into it's own C++ file, or move it into the original definition

SpartanDonut

@Noctrine Moonrise does look cool. Could possibly fill the Digimon World void but not the Monster Rancher one :(

user92578

But you can't template in .cpp files, right?

user4704

3:26 PM

You can.

user4704

But it depends what you need the template to do / where you need it to be used.

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 you can define the specialized template as existing in the header, and then implement it in a source

PsychO PhobiA

@JoshPetrie So it would take some level of understanding from computers and programming and math I assume right?

MickLH

or you can implement it, with inline in the header directly

SpartanDonut

Maybe I'll make a Monster rancher game and since I can't art I'll just have all the monsters be meme's until I come up with something better

user4704

3:27 PM

@PsychOPhobiA Most software engineering does.

Noctrine

:|

@SpartanDonut heh :p

PsychO PhobiA

:) ^

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 .h files don't mean anything to a compiler; most compilers never end up seeing them.

Noctrine

PsychO have you made a few games yet?

user4704

(FWIW)

MickLH

3:28 PM

Here @Tyyppi_77, I think this is what you want

stackoverflow.com/questions/2498435/…

Noctrine

@SpartanDonut We've actually had some awesome advances with putting that particular title out, but I still need to find the right 3D Modeler and Animator to make it work :(

user92578

For some reason I thought that you need to template in headers.

Blue

Hearing all this talk about API's makes me want to make an API for my toaster.

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 Specializations of templates are a more advanced concept with slightly different rules.

Blue

GetBread();
MakeToast();
Fly();

MickLH

3:30 PM

@Tyyppi_77 headers don't exist, maybe to prove it to your mind you could copy paste all the headers into one giant C++ file with NO includes at all, and see it's the same.

Pip

lol

user92578

I added the spesialization declarations to the class declaration and moved the methods to the .cpp file. Now the complier rewarded me with unresolved external errors.

user4704

Generally, the definition of a template must be available to all scopes that wish to use it.

Noctrine

@Blue Internet of Things Toaster

user4704

This means that in practice, you have to put it in a header file.

MickLH

3:30 PM

but only to make your life easier!

user4704

(but you could just put it in a .cpp if you don't want to use it outside of that .cpp; remember, headers are not seen by the compiler)

Noctrine

1193

Q: Why does Windows think that my wireless keyboard is a toaster?

I've inherited an old PC from my girlfriend's dad and when setting up the printer I got a bit of a surprise: Two questions spring to mind here: Why does Windows think my wireless keyboard is a toaster? Why does Windows even have an icon for a toaster in the devices menu?

user4704

The compiler only sees a "translation unit," which is basically the result of the preprocessor running to resolve all #define macros and #includes into a single giant source file.

user92578

Now why am I getting unresolved external errors when I call the methods I specialized?

Wardy

lol @Noctrine thats hilarious

user4704

3:32 PM

Pastebin your code again.

user4704

(the new current code)

MickLH

derp, not thinking

BlueBug

first thing that came to my mind; 1193.... so much reputation SO MUCH!

SpartanDonut

@Noctrine exciting but sounds a long ways off yet D:

user92578

pastebin.com/JAgRSrfh

SpartanDonut

3:34 PM

@Noctrine hows the UE4 been going?

Icy Defiance

@BlueBug only 3k max, actually, because of the 200/day rep limit

BlueBug

awwww

Icy Defiance

also this is the 3rd time that question has been starred here in those 15 days, lol

Noctrine

@SpartanDonut I know :( people are expensive.

Pip

@Wardy hey man

can I talk to you in the skype chat?

MickLH

3:36 PM

oh, @SpartanDonut, I meant to say: meme ranch sounds kinda hilarious

Noctrine

@SpartanDonut Pretty nice, although I've had to neglect it a bit. I just upgraded to 4.4.0 so that I can use Mixamo's animation packs, so that lets me get a lot more worked on. Still nothing real though, all the little mostly irrelevant details have been what I've ben filling my time with because I don't have much time.

Wardy

@Pip dude im online you dont have to ask lol

Icy Defiance

related to "so much rep", how the hell did this become the answer to get me the nice answer badge? gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/82156/…

Pip

you didn't respond :P

Icy Defiance

this is the kind of math you learn in the first week of gamedev

Noctrine

3:37 PM

I'd play Meme Rancher

Wardy

does anyone wanna see something i find interesting but completely unrelated to game programming?

I'm building a new aquarium to replace my old one

thereeftank.com/forums/f7/my-new-90-gal-build-222612.html

SpartanDonut

The problem is I don't think anyone could take Meme Rancher seriously lol

Wardy

100 gallons :)

SpartanDonut

But it would certainly work for prototyping

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 Only class templates, not function templates, may be partially-specialized.

MickLH

3:39 PM

@Wardy looks good so far man!

user92578

Meaning that I'll have to use typeof(T) to determine the type of the result wanted in the one and only templated method?

Icy Defiance

@Wardy my family used to have a tank about that size, just a little longer. then my dad washed it with bleach and when he put the fish back in they all died.

user4704

24

Q: explicit specialization of template class member function

I need to specialize template member function for some type (let's say double). It works fine while class X itself is not a template class, but when I make it template GCC starts giving compile-time errors. #include <iostream> #include <cmath> template <class C> class X { public: template <c...

c++ templates gcc specialization

Wardy

ouch @IcyDefiance

poor fish

thats a 5ft tank

would be thousands in stock in there

I'm building a reef

user4704

You are honestly better off writing these methods as GetIntValue and GetStringValue and such and avoiding the template entirely.

user4704

3:40 PM

It's not getting you any benefit here.

user4704

Also:

user92578

I just thought that I'd go a bit different road, and learn something new and amazing from C++. And this time that thing is that you can't do this.

user4704

Ew, singletons (you're getting judged anyway). You shouldn't "throw valueElement," that's not useful at all. If you are not using C++11 you should be passing your strings by const &.

user92578

Life's full of disapointments

user4704

Making your destructor private is generally a bad idea.

Wardy

3:42 PM

rofl

MickLH

lol I love how nobody is flaming about that he's trying to specialize template members to implement a singleton

user92578

@JoshPetrie But since it's a singleton, it cann't be destroyed anywhere outside the class.

MickLH

it's like cliche C++ drama clusterfuck

Blue

I love singletons.

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 Doesn't matter, still bad practice (and will bite you when you realize it was dumb to make this a singleton).

Blue

3:43 PM

They make life easier until you actually start building more into the project, then you wish you never knew them.

user92578

@MickLH I'm not specializing template members to implement a singleton. I'm templating members in a singleton class

user92578

@JoshPetrie How about the constructor?

user4704

That's fine.

user92578

Okay

user4704

Since you do not provide a way to publically construct an instance of GameSettings, and you never expose an existing instance except via a pointer, making the destructor public does not allow anybody to do anything with it.

user92578

3:44 PM

Advice taken, and applied :)

user4704

It does help you prevent odd cases where you try to hold the type in question in utility wrapper types.

MickLH

I personally am an optimist, and like to look on the bright side, that theoretically an instance of a friend class in the global scope could automatically clean up the singleton after the app exits :P

user4704

There are times when a private destructor is warranted but this really isn't one of them.

user4704

So, if you want to learn something new and interesting about C++, you might consider learning about implementation-hiding techniques.

user4704

Since they relate to your (apparent) lack of understanding of the C++ compilation model (header and source files).

user92578

3:46 PM

So what would you recommend doing when no `valueElement` is found? Just return NULL?
    	tinyxml2::XMLElement* valueElement = GetXMLElementWithTagName(settingsName);
    	if (!valueElement)
    	{
    	}

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 You can throw (I'd throw).

user4704

Just don't throw valueElement.

user92578

0?

user4704

You just determined valueElement is null, so all you are throwing is a null pointer.

MickLH

lol...

user4704

3:47 PM

Which is useless -- when you catch that, you can't tell what happened or do anything useful with it.

user4704

You should always throw std::exception (or some subclass thereof). It's stupid that C++ lets you throw arbitrary stuff. Pretend it doesn't.

user92578

@JoshPetrie I'm kinda new to these errors... it seems a bid odd to actually throw errors in your own code :)

user4704

@Tyyppi_77 No different than returning something like null.

MickLH

sorry, it's just so ironic, you're coming full circle onto the atoi thing

user4704

What you are saying when you throw an exception is that "an error happened, this code does not know what to do with it, hopefully somebody else will"

user92578

3:48 PM

@MickLH Yeah, I get that

user4704

Then, you catch that exception elsewhere (higher up in the abstraction of your program) where you can better understand what to do with it.

user4704

The more information you can give to that higher-level abstraction, the better it may be able to deal with (possibly even recover from) the failure.

user4704

If you give it basically no information, there's basically nothing it can do.

user4704

So a general rule of thumb should be to throw the most-specific exception type that makes sense for a given failure.

user92578

Thanks a lot @JoshPetrie and everyone else who helped me today, I'll now go and watch an episode of House if Cards. Bye and good night!

user4704

3:51 PM

Bye.

MickLH

@Tyyppi_77 peace, maybe drink water for like 5 minutes first? :P

user4704

This needs more visibility:

user4704

0

Q: Are questions asking how to find where game engines have the code for different things on-topic?

For example: where is the code in Unreal Engine that deals with the player picking up a weapon? Is this an acceptable type of question? What about a more general version: how can I find the code for different systems in CryEngine?

discussion questions

user92578

@MickLH What?

MickLH

or drink water for like 8 seconds, and then stand for like 4 minutes and 52 seconds

before subjecting your brain to TV-wave radiation

Blue

3:52 PM

@JoshPetrie What, you mean I can't just Try Catch my Main(string[] args) and just have a mile long switch statement to handle all the errors ever...

Damn.

user92578

Do I need my folio-hat, or should I leave it for the computer time?

Icy Defiance

@JoshPetrie yeah, I saw that, and decided I don't have a fully formed opinion on the subject

user4704

@Blue Can't switch on strings in C++. :P

user4704

And C# doesn't let you throw strings.

user4704

So... no. You can't. :P

Blue

3:53 PM

Double damn.

SpartanDonut

@Blue don't worry. You can just swallow all the exceptions. No big deal.

Blue

Heh, swallow.

MickLH

do not do this, it's a joke (one that might piss alex off) fuckit just dereference the null pointer, cross platform break to debugger in zero bytes of code :P

user4704

@SpartanDonut Rageface.

Blue

Alternatively, just output all errors to a hidden label in an offscreen win32 form.

Sorted.

SpartanDonut

3:56 PM

I've honestly worked with an API where you couldn't check if something existed... you just had to try to get the item and if it didn't exist the API threw an exception.

Blue

NO NULLS FOR YOU.

SpartanDonut

So a horrible exception swallowing extension method was born -_-

Icy Defiance

. stackoverflow.com/a/184682/1995101

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