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Jon
2:00 PM
Essentially. Big companies don't want to change their ways.. so they create new ways.
 
If you mean the image. It's not just big companies. Its everyone. It's just not feasable to move everything to a new standard. Even if it would turn out that it is better
 
@Almo Although it really could come in handy sometimes in places like maybe doing player stats that involve adding up a bunch of numbers that could be tiny or huge, and doing some kind of stats formulas on them without needing anything ugly to handle precision
 
@OliverSchöning Learn C. It's easy, barebones, and it'll teach you a hell of a lot about low-level computing.
 
qed: JavaScript
 
The problem is that it's almost nothing like Javascript.
 
2:02 PM
Yeah
 
I taught myself C in a couple weeks in high school
 
I was considering C. Either C or C++. I want a polar opposite. Well not completely. But I want a static, typesafe langauge
But c++ has oop
 
You should learn C.
 
I'd vote for C also because it's given me the most benefit as a programmer
Was sorta like breaking out of the matrix for me
 
Jon
hmm...
 
2:04 PM
C++'s OOP is so sloppy and nasty, it's a very deep rabbit hole.
 
I'm looking forward to develop a game..But I can't find a good tutorial to learn Game Development,,Plz Help me... I'm using C#
 
Jon
Learning C today is probably not a good suggestion to give to someone
 
Next thing you know you're working through template parameterization, and you still haven't learned why you're leaking memory
 
And it has a graceful path into C++ which is actually a useful language
 
Jon
If you want to learn low level, go ASM
 
2:04 PM
Nah, that's way less useful that C
C is just platform independent ASM
 
Yes I need to learn from the beginning
 
Jon
Then learning Machine Language is a good thing to learn
 
C or C++ best thing to learn to develop games?
 
Jon
Learn about how a computer works... read that book
Very informative.. all programmers should look at this
 
@HarshanaNarangoda There's no "best thing" for developing games, but C++ is probably closer because you don't have to reinvent the wheel as much.
 
Jon
2:06 PM
At least up to chapter 6
Its the book I read to get started
 
I think trying to learn C++ is futile for anyone who doesn't know C already, at best you will just force yourself to learn both at once trying to skip
 
C++ great for game dev; lots of companies use it. But just starting cold in C++ is scary.
I learned C first
 
Ok @Jon I'll read... And @shotgun Thanks for the information.. I know basics of the Computer and I develop some Apps for Windows mobile and Android. I need to go beyond that...
 
though I admit not very well
at least understand pointers and addresses.
 
Pointers, Addresses, and Memory Abstraction are the three main key topics of learning C that you will NEED TO KNOW IN ANY PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE.
 
Jon
2:09 PM
Memory Abstraction has gotten really good over the years.
 
Right, but there are still optimizations you can make by using memory differently.
 
Hm...good.. do you have any resource to learn C?
 
Especially in console programming.
K+R book
 
Jon
Pointers are so easy... yet very difficult for people to grasp
 
2:10 PM
thanks bro..
 
That's the definitive C programming book.
Written by the guys who invented the language.
Follow that up with TAOCP
 
I'll learn C and come back to get more details.. thanks everyone.
 
K+R C, TAOCP, and The Pragmatic Programmer are my go-to tomes.
 
Jon
I don't think C will be useful for him to learn, unless he is going to code for ios
Unless it is strictly to learn concepts.
 
I think it's worth it for concepts alone, I'm really wasn't exaggerating when I said it "broke me out of the matrix" lol
 
2:12 PM
C is extremely useful for conceptual work.
Plus, it's a concise language that offers everything you need to learn many other HLLs.
 
My first programming was JavaScript on IE4, and batch files
 
Jon
My first was Basic64
 
Damn I didn't even think about BASIC
 
My first programming was TI-83 Plus onboard programming
followed by QuickBASIC and PHP
then Visual BASIC
then C
 
I guess I used Atari BASIC first, but I feel that I didn't learn "programming" until a little ways into JS
I screwed around with lots of things, even some visual languages, I remember one called "peter" that I associate with rabbits and was fun
 
2:14 PM
I learn Javascript, then Java then C#... LOL
 
So you've done the HLL dance
 
But then when I learned C everything clicked
 
Jon
Yeah... every new programmer today is HLL only mainly.
 
I wasn't afraid of the BSOD anymore
 
bah
Oh yeah, C is super-simple, but you are given more than enough rope to hang yourself.
 
Jon
2:15 PM
The first language they teach at universities now is JAVA
 
Yeah, my uni teaches Java first
 
yes that's right
 
but I needed to know C in high school to program my team's robot in Sophomore year
 
I basically magically knew how to use a hex editor, how to write assembly, even how the circuits worked at the transistor level
 
so I learned C
 
2:16 PM
It all seemed so simple after learning C..
 
Jon
Assembly is the language that thought me the most.
It made me realize how a CPU actually works
 
I took a Digital Logic and two Assembly courses my Freshman year of college, though.
Those pretty much filled the gaps in my understanding.
 
So I think Learning C is very useful to my future career isn't it?
 
along with a basic Digital Electronics course.
Yeah, learning C will help immensely
3
 
Thanks for the tips. I gotta get some fresh air. I am not convinced that I have to learn C before C++ just because I have heard a lot of people say otherwise. Biased stroustrup included ofc. And C++ is still the industry standard. Although that doesnt say much. cough JavaScript
Is a industry standard*
 
2:18 PM
Adios, take a breather
 
@Jon thx for the links.
 
I'd agree that you don't have to learn C first
 
Ill be back
 
Jon
cool
 
You can learn it during instead :P
 
Jon
2:19 PM
@ShotgunNinja so you interfaced robits?
 
@Jon Yep
 
Jon
what kind of robot?
 
I was on a FIRST Robotics team called the Robot Mafia.
 
Jon
Did you kill people?
 
2:20 PM
Uh, look up FIRST Robotics.
 
Jon
robot pics?
 
one sec
crappy quality, but that was our 2008 finals match at the Wisconsin Regional event
Our robot broke in the match following that one.
 
Jon
lol cool
looks pretty fun
 
Yeah, it's tons of fun.
6 weeks from the announcement of the game goal to the robot final ship date.
 
Jon
are they built to specifications? they all look the same
 
2:25 PM
There's an extensive rulebook released in January every year regarding what they can look like.
Well, height, weight, maximum size, limitations on energy sources, and so forth.
They don't tell exactly it should look like, but they do impose design limitations.
 
it's fun...
(y)
 
Yes.
Extremely frantic and terrifically fun
 
Jon
Only thing I did in robotics, is control a stepper motor
via a PC serial port
 
It's different when it's done like a varsity sport instead of a science project.
 
Jon
Seems like it also requires quite a bit of funding
 
2:27 PM
The Standard Kit of Parts is $5000
 
Jon
actuators, motors, and all those snazzy electronics are not cheap
 
That includes the National Instruments cRIO robot controller, a fully programmable FPGA-based control hub.
You can code it in Java, C++, or LabVIEW.
There is a support library, maintained by Worcester Polytechnic Institute students, which gives you interfaces for all the controllable devices that you can attach to the robot, as well as interfacing for the Field Control system.
Just the technology that goes into the Field Management System is incredible.
 
Jon
Very cool
 
Servers, wireless routers, sensors, cameras, scoring stands, and even a Twitter auto-poster for the final score.
@frcfms, Manchester, NH
http://t.co/Io9AjNLqxy
52.2k tweets, 577 followers, following 1 users
 
Jon
Would be cool if these robots were automated.
instead of remote controlled
No idea what that twitter is
Tweets directions?
 
2:31 PM
They are; the first 15 seconds of each match is Autonomous Mode, followed by 2 minutes of Teleoperated Mode.
@Jon Tweets final scores of matches.
 
Jon
Well then
 
There are smartphone apps like FRC Spyder which display the match history and brackets based on that feed.
As well as alliance selection aids which help teams plan out a selection for their Final Alliance.
The games are broken up into Qualification matches for Friday and half of Saturday, and at noon on Saturday, the top-seeded 8 teams pick two other teams each, round-robin style, to join them in the 8 Final Alliances.
 
Jon
first year newcomers must have really crappy robots
 
Then from then on, Alliances stick together through the quarterfinals, semis, and finals.
Double-elimination style.
Yeah, it depends on the team and whoever is funding them.
Teams are eligible to receive funding from a large number of companies, colleges, and independent organizations.
 
Jon
I'm gonna try to get funding from Boston Dynamics
 
2:34 PM
Students and team mentors are allowed to design their own marketing plans to acquire funding.
Typically, local companies are tapped, though national/international companies and groups like Google, NASA, and JCPenney offer their support to any team that applies.
 
Jon
Cool, wish I'd of had that opportunity when I was in school.
All I had was a stepper motor I ripped out of a printer, and a cheap laptop with a serial port I connected wires to
 
If you're anywhere near St. Louis, you can attend at the Edwards Dome.
Admission is totally free.
 
Jon
Yeah, well there is also a Canadian one
 
Right, but that already passed IIRC
Guessing you're in Canada then?
 
Jon
yeah
 
2:38 PM
What part?
 
Jon
East Coast
New Brunswick
Essentially right next to the atlantic ocean.
 
There's events in Alberta, Ontario, and Quebec. Not sure which cities, though.
 
Jon
I could make it to Quebec
 
There's two in Quebec
Festival de Robotique FRC a Montreal Regional in Montreal
wait, nevermind
 
Jon
ugh.. french robotics.
I'd go to the Montreal one
 
2:41 PM
Ontario has 5 events
but yeah
 
Jon
montreal is about 10 hours drive from here.
Ontario is like... 18
 
then watch the events online or something.
 
Jon
yeah for sure.
be fun to go live though
 
Or better yet, see if there is a school nearby with a team.
Then join them as an adult mentor.
 
Jon
Here is me, standing next to Atlantic ocean, in Fundy Bay
 
2:43 PM
looks chilly
 
Jon
I thought it was cool, cuz its Snow/Sand/Water
Yeah, that was in March
 
way too cold
I scraped ice off my windshield today, actually. It was great.
 
Jon
It warms up...
We have the northumberland straight here too... so water is pretty warm in the summer time
If you like swimming/beach
If you look, you can see Nova Scotia in the back
in the horizon
 
Yeah, it snowed here all of yesterday
Milwaukee, WI, USA
 
Jon
yuck.
Its +18Celcius here today
 
2:45 PM
Yeah, we get the Lake Michigan effect.
@Jon It was a high 17-18 C here two days ago
then yesterday it snowed
 
Jon
That must be nice :)
 
and it's -4 C today
 
Jon
Pretty dramatic changes there
 
it's not fucking nice, it's a pain in the ass
the whole winter has been drastic weather changes
back and forth, from day to day
We had a huge thunderstorm in January
 
Jon
we've had an enormous amount of snow this winter.
 
2:48 PM
it didn't snow for us until November
then we got absolutely wrecked almost every day, with super low temperatures and lots of snow.
Then random warm spells, just to give us hope for a half day
It dropped 30 deg F in ONE AFTERNOON once.
40 deg F overnight.
AND IT WONT STOP
 
Jon
I expect to see stranger weather patterns in the future as well
I just looked it up
we had 316cm of snow fall this year alone , here
well.. since last November, sorry
averages 2CM per day.
 
I had snow and ice on my car :|
 
Jon
I'd slap you with a large trout if I could
 
@Noctrine same
@Jon Also same
 
Jon
 
2:57 PM
Ground of Throne Hogs
 
Jon
Anyone watch the latest GoT?
So good.
 
private string _matchIDs[4];
can I not do this in C#
or is something else causing the compile error
says it's read-only so i can't assign to it
 
Jon
that is wrong
 
user4704
private string[] _matchIds = new string[4];
 
ok thanks
 
user4704
Ugh, one of my pet peeves is people using the task manager to diagnose leaks and performance problems.
 
3:17 PM
compiler should say "hey stupid this is not C"
:)
 
Jon
Everything needs to be treated as an object.
as opposed to a structure.
 
So... polymorphism?
 
@JoshPetrie heh, I've only done that casually, like: AO: 4%, Awesomium: 21%, hmm, something's not right
 
user4704
Yeah. It is possible to do crude metrics with it, but most people get it wrong because the default columns are misleading.
 
I just use it to check for memory leaks, because that's usually pretty obvious
 
3:25 PM
I just use the VS defulat profiler. Its pretty solid.
 
Ehh, great
 
user4704
@ClassicThunder Kinda sucks for managed code.
 
user4704
But it's better than Task Manager.
 
Were one of your co-workers trying to use the task manager?
 
Really? That is all I have used it for. I liked the JetBrains one better but am much to cheap to buy it for myself.
Hmm might be able to get an open source licence. They let me have resharper for free because of my GUI library :)
 
3:28 PM
The Google IO lottery should be opening up soon
 
user4704
@JohnMcDonald Actually, frequently. But I was specifically referring to this question: gamedev.stackexchange.com/questions/73439/…
 
Jon
I liked slimtune in the past.
because its free
 
user4704
@ClassicThunder I use the Red Gate profiler. It's awesome.
 
user4704
We haven't updated SlimTune in ages. :\
 
Jon
they haven't.
apparently. I haven't used it in about a year
 
user4704
3:29 PM
(I worked on it)
 
Jon
Apr 26, 2011 last check-in date
Ah.. that is cool I used it quite a bit
don't see your name in the commit history
 
user4704
I never committed to it directly, just sent patches.
 
user4704
Promit did most of it himself, it was an offshoot project we developed while working on SlimDX.
 
Jon
ah.
Well , I found it difficult to find a decent free profiler
this one was pretty good for my use
so thanks
 
user4704
np
 
user4704
3:34 PM
(I did very little useful though)
 
user4704
I'm debating going back to SlimDX though, with D3D12 on the horizon.
 
Jon
What's the insider scoop?
new features
 
user4704
Can't say.
 
Can't, or won't?
 
Jon
They are changing the name... to Direct One
 
user4704
3:46 PM
A little of both, depending on how strictly one interprets legalities.
 
@Jon To follow the naming of the XBox I'd guess
 
@JoshPetrie I'm totally spying for trade secrets to bring up at OpenGL architecture review board meetings
 
Jon
I was just kidding about the DirectX name change :)
 
so good
 
Jon
3:52 PM
Yeah... there are actually a ton more
People went crazy with that animation on reddit a few months ago... one scans the screen and stuff
 
:O
 
Jon
no loop
 
Fixed w/ better no-loop :p
 
Jon
thanks
AAA
 

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