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7:00 PM
He's my hero for being a wrecking machine with Viktor
 
so like i said, eve's system is to only allow a single item to be purchased for real money
 
lol I just hang out on the internet a lot and hear a lot of things. my list of accomplishments is relatively lacking. XD
 
even if it would be better if he could keep himself from yelling at the morons on our team :)
 
yes, but i would argue that that is the reason it works
because once it enters the game, it's no longer a RMT system, it's just game mechanics
and it helps that eve's entire game is built around economics
 
^
 
7:02 PM
and it doesn't entirely work. there are people who buy the PLEX in-game and resell it for real money at a lower price than CCP does
 
w00! Back to writing unit tests :]
 
@CaptainRedmuff good luck, glad you found it
 
it takes a whole lot of money to buy it in-game though, and for someone to buy it in bulk is almost impossible
 
@SethBattin Thank you. I'm sure i'll hit another stumbling block but this has helped immensely.
 
@ton.yeung maybe it isn't, that's fair
 
7:03 PM
Unitys Test Tools are actually pretty swish
Nunit is easy to pick up considering I know very little C#
 
@ton.yeung it's mostly different because (a) it's controllable and balanced, and (b) it doesn't result in a shitload of credit card fraud
 
@CaptainRedmuff tht's interesting to hear, i'll have to give them a fair shake
 
there's no extra step. it's just being sold by the game's creator instead of some random guy.
 
One of the best things about the system is that the ingame market determines how much ingame money $20 is worth
 
@Almo kind of, but if the market went crazy then CCP would set it straight again. it's not purely free market.
 
7:05 PM
there is some argument that the system inflates the real-world cost of game items, for example that a titan is not really worth thousands of dollars
 
But a Titan IS worth thousands of dollars
if you consider the amount of labor that goes into making one
 
well, i know the math works out that way
the argument went like so:
 
it's not exactly inflated... but the number being used there is the wrong one
 
and the economists will tell you that "something is worth whatever people will pay for it"
 
people who purchase extra plex with their credit card undervalue their real-money
 
7:07 PM
in fact, value can't even be assessed if it is not bought and sold
 
it would take thousands of dollars to build that titan, but if you turned it back into PLEX and tried selling the PLEX then you wouldn't get thousands of dollars.
 
and then people who purchase plex overvalue their real money versus their time
so it gets traded at a rate that is not exactly representative of the real-world rate of other ingame items
 
By that logic nothing is worth what they are bought and sold for
 
Direct trading of IRL and IG money impairs control because then the in-game money becomes a tangible product that the game developers are responsible for.
 
But the value in ISK of the titan is set by the ingame market, as is the ISK price of PLEX
 
7:08 PM
it's true
i guess the point is, a regular eve player would not consider their titan worth that many dollars
even though the math of equating it to isk and then to plex would suggest it is worth that much
 
Having an intermediate currency decouples the game currency from the responsibility that the real world places on everyday business transactions.
 
it's very fuzzy math
 
I think we're describing opinions and not math
 
@ton.yeung that specifically is a good question. there's a benefit to it, because players can pay for their subscription without using real money at all if they want to.
 
@SpartanDonut no no no....economics :)
 
7:10 PM
I think selling PLEX instead of in-game currency is more controllable too. if the price of PLEX drops in-game, oh well, that's just the market. but if CCP tried giving people less ISK for the same amount of money shit would blow up and everyone would be angry.
angry people makes for an unstable economy
 
I don't know if we can call this economics either
 
@ton.yeung Ok lets say I buy 100 credits in your game, and then for some crazy reason I sue you and win an injunction.
Now you have to manipulate in-game economy
 
You can't reliably resell anything in game for IRL money
 
as for blizzard, they knowingly elected to trade game items for real money in spite of angering their player base. ergo: blizzard's decision was entirely financial, and probably profitable for them
oh yes
 
Blizzard's problem is the game (I'll jump on this conspiracy) seemed to be designed around players playing the AH
 
7:12 PM
eve's system is much more subtle
 
Possibly for profit... maybe they actually thought it was fun but most likely just for profit
 
:/ yeah. Thank goodness the AH has been removed
 
i mean, if you intend to sell millions of units, and you can demonstrate that a design decision will decrease your sales by a nonzero amount
 
It was fun imo, but game-breaking
 
then that decision had better make you lots of money
i know billzard is an atypical business even among the games industry, but they still make decisions the same way
 
7:14 PM
I think EVE's system works because it's very easy to put money into the game, but very difficult to get money out of it. That keeps the value of PLEX from ever becoming game-breaking. That, and money itself isn't game-breaking in EVE. The cheapest ships in the game are still useful, especially in pvp.
 
@ton.yeung you can play for free for a few days :)
 
:]
Written a boat load of test cases.
 
nice
 
Very gratifying to see all those green ticks :]
Writing unit tests is actually cathartic
 
can be
 
7:15 PM
@CaptainRedmuff here's hoping all those green ticks actually solve the problem you were working towards ;)
 
if unity would fail at the compiling step it would be a lot better. jesus christ
 
@SpartanDonut Indeed they do :]
A small part of the problem at least.
 
@SethBattin appreciate what little we have damnit!
 
Yeah not what I mean
 
copy/paste? :P
 
7:16 PM
If it's on this chatroom, a bookmark is probably fine too
 
I mean when you finally start generating your terrain completely hopefully you've got something you're happy with
 
Lol I wanna cheers to something
 
Each message also has a permalink
 
@ton.yeung you could just bookmark the permalink to a certain message too
donut, you're not a spartan, you're a ninja
 
7:18 PM
@SpartanDonut I'll be sure to post some screenshots when I finally get it working
 
Name change to NinjaDonut is not incoming
 
Time for some RUM!
 
I think it's time to crack open an ice cold Saturday morning, on this nice Thursday evening
 
* bottoms up *
 
no
lol no offense
Well it's just that there's not really a concrete answer
Sortof discussion oriented, and opinion based
@ton.yeung That solves the non-concrete-ness, but now it's a question specifically for the EVE devs
I mean if you want the rep then it will probably be a fine question
But it might go either way, I could easily see Josh closing that one
 
Pip
7:23 PM
heyheyhey
 
I think the answer is pretty obvious but maybe I'm naive and uneducated (I know I am)
PLEX doesn't add more ISK to the game
And PLEX leaves the game very easily
$$$ -> ISK causes inflation. $$$ -> Plex does not
 
Do you think it would be possible to write a method to return the intersection of overlapping line segments?
by intersection, I mean the opposite of unions.
 
@CaptainRedmuff It sounds too simple
 
too simple?
 
return -union;
 
7:26 PM
If you're asking to find where 2 lines intersect, then build a system of equations with your 2 lines, and solve it for x and y
 
boom
 
I guess that means it possible then :P
 
@CaptainRedmuff is that what you meant?
 
@SpartanDonut I don't want a union of line segments. That would just result in one long line segment
 
My response was a joke
 
7:28 PM
I mean, given 1 line segment and an array of overlapping line segments, return an array of the intersected line segments
 
@CaptainRedmuff remember in our previous talk when we defined the different possible input positions for parallel, in-line segments? The intersection would simply be the two inside points of each case that intersects
well, the segment between those two points, i mean
 
I'm totally lost on the terminology but if you show me a picture about it I'll reply in math about it ;)
 
well, you have two segments that you've already determined are on the same infinite line
then their endpoints can only occupy so many combinations relative to each in a 1-D space
 
tiny image
 
so if it's AB and CD, it can be ABCD, ACBD, ACDB, etc
 
7:31 PM
subtract B & C from A
to get the resulting array of line segments
 
well in that case their union is no longer a line segment
 
Ok, so they would be overlapping right?
 
Now I know the lines are all parallel, on the same line segment and they overlap.
It seems like it should be possible.
 
B&C isn't a segment, though
 
they're two line segments
and the result would also be two line segments, in this example
 
7:33 PM
The algorithm I thought of would output degenerate segments, so you'd want to check for that
 
i'm not sure how to describe that
the possible outputs of B&C are too dissimilar
 
I have a few ideas
for example, I could clamp the length of A between 0 - 1
then subtract the length of B
subtract the length of C which would split A into two line segments in the result
but that would be prone to rounding errors
Just an idea. I'll mull it over.
That doesn't really seem like the best approach but it just might work.
 
But basically it's as such:
 fill a list with your "B + C" startpoints and endpoints, sorted like: [B.start, B.end, C.start, C.end, ...]
 set a variable (I call it "cursor") to the startpoint of A
 in a loop until the list is empty
  pop a value from the beginning of the list into a variable (I call it "end")
  output a line segment from "cursor" to "end"
  pop a value from the beginning of the list into "cursor"
 after the loop, output a line segment from "cursor" to the endpoint of line A
 
@MickLH That's similar to another idea I was floating
 
it requires A to fully contain all of the other segments
 
7:41 PM
I'd have to work out the sign of the line segment start and end points
The more I talk in here, the more I realise how hard it is to explain my ideas :/
 
Jon
screenshots
 
But it seems like it might be possible to write a method to return an array of line segments that are the intersection of another line segment
@Jon I'm just throwing the idea out there for now. I'll bust out some screenshots when I have something visual :]
At least for now, I can write some unit tests and attempt a few different implementations afterwards
 
I compared a few ideas but the benefits of the way I described are that it lets you plug in a sorting algorithm to organize the buffers, and it preserves the original vertices giving a "perfect" subtraction
 
It's possible Jon was asking for screenshots of what you have done but I'm going to take a guess and say that he was implying that pictures are useful tools for communication ;)
If your point isn't coming across in words, try drawing it out
 
remember: "one word is a millipicture"
7
 
7:47 PM
;]
 
Pip
whoa
cool
 
I'm in the 1% :'[
 
Correct, C++ is on still on top even if only the best can use it.
 
Pip
Most of us here are in the 2.5%
@MickLH btw, did I tell you that I am using C++ now?
(for robotics)
 
lol I think I might have picked up on it but now I feel guilty hahaha
 
Pip
7:49 PM
why?
 
 
Can't say i've heard of TCL before
 
@Pip what's your source?
 
Pip
it's from quora
idk if it's reliable or not
 
ehhh
 
because I'm leaving so much up to interpretation, it's almost irresponsible of me since I'd like to avoid misunderstandings
 
so among quora users, that's some kind of sampling of what languages they use? Or maybe which languages generate the most questions?
 
Pip
@MickLH ah, I see
 
Right. I gotta fly. Got a date with some Diablo 3.
 
Pip
@Almo it's from the answer I linked
cya Capt'n
 
7:51 PM
Thanks for the help, everyone. Greatly appreciated :]
 
YOU DIDN'T LINK ANY ANSWER
(I need a bigger font for those moments)
 
Pip
lol
1 min ago, by Pip
http://www.quora.com/What-is-the-composition-of-the-programming-population
 
so Orbital is actually dead-dead now.
 
Pip
huh?
 
they reformed for one album, Wonky, toured for a few years, and now they've announced that was really it that time.
it was an orbital tape from a friend that launched me into electronic music
 
Pip
7:52 PM
ah
 
didn't quite get it for a while, but while listening in my wife's car ('88 honda accord manual trans) one track caught me, and then I dove into all this weird stuff I listen to
it was this one:
still like this track a lot
 
One minute in and this is more up my alley than the other stuff you've sent me :P
 
Pip
Civ V Beyond Earth releases tomorrow!
 
ermahgerdnowai
:P
 
Pip
Now I need to convince myself that I have actual time to play, and that it's worth the money
@Almo ooh, I like that a lot
 
7:56 PM
Glad you guys like it.
 
Pip
wonder it it's on Spotify
 
I quite like it
 
since getting into Orbital, I drifted out toward more minimal forms.
 
You've done good this time
 
I'm hoping someone in my Friends & Familiy sharing buys Civ: BE so I don't have to. :P
 
7:56 PM
:)
 
@Lokkij how does that work? Link?
I suppose I could google it
 
@Pip the image you linked is from codeeval and is based on the submissions to one of their coding challenges. it's does not represent, and it is not meant to represent, the most popular langauges in the world. it only represents the submissions to that challenge.
 
Orbital is usually listed as "Ambient Techno"; it's more busy rhythmically than Dub Techno, which I've been listening to a lot over the last few years.
 
Pip
@IcyDefiance ah, good to know
@Lokkij :)
 
it was illegally used by CrispyCodes who lied about its purpose and now it's being illegally used all over the internet
 
7:58 PM
so you probably like more rhythmic density in your music.
 
codeeval is somewhat angry about it: blog.codeeval.com/codeevalblog/rip
 
@SpartanDonut Steam Friends & Family sharing. It's awesome; acces to any unused library you have access to.
 
Pip
Oh... that.......
 
but that's just my impression from a small amount of data :)
 
Pip
good to know Icy, thanks
 
7:59 PM
ohh wait, this was based on multiple coding challenges. like 100k of them. I misread.
that makes it more reliable, but it still has some biases
 
Pip
true
 
Java, Python, and C++ being at the top makes perfect sense.
Ruby...not so much
 
Jon
false
 
@Lokkij hmm... so the user doing the sharing can't play any of their games at the same time? interesting
 
Jon
we should collective start our own language.. call it spaghettios
 
8:00 PM
I approve
 
@SpartanDonut It's really awesome; for example, I've made a deal with a steam friend from the US (who usually plays at different times) where I buy The Wolf Among Us and he buys The Walking Dead, so we can both play them.
 
Jon
we will build it on top of malbolge
 
I think this might be the best source on the internet, if you want information on language popularity: langpop.com
 
I still read "Magento" as "Magneto" all the time.
 
and Ruby is still surprisingly high. dang, I never really paid attention to it but apparently people like it.
 
8:03 PM
ruby on fucking rails, motherfucker
 
yeah I thought it was some fad along with node.js
 
node.js is awesome though
well, I liked it the one time I had exposure to it
 
js all day long :)
 
the way node.js works is pretty awesome. I just don't like javascript and I want to use it as little as possible.
 
why dislike?
 
user4704
8:06 PM
Rust, yo.
 
i think i could get behind rust. i need a project to try it with, though
the overview article makes it seem nice
 
.NET has OWIN. I don't need node.
 
@SethBattin nothing makes sense about it and it's almost impossible to debug, to put it simply
 
it's the weirdest language i know, to be certain. it is difficult for it to make sense amid a sea of C-curlybrace languages
 
I'm bad and like compilers
 
8:08 PM
impossible to debug is false, though
 
by "impossible to debug" I mean it's extremely loose about when things will work, but not work correctly
where C# will throw an exception, JS will just give NaN as an answer. things like that.
 
ah
so, that's the DUCK typing problem
duck
 
I like it when I go to test JS and just nothing happens
 
largely, yes, it's the typing
not entirely, but that's probably most of it
 
usually a syntax error that I could have probably prevented by using better tools... but yeah
 
8:11 PM
and javascript is, again, weirder than even that, because it's not the same as ruby or python
 
Pip
@MickLH what do you think about writing the function and method prototypes before starting the next portion of a project?
 
but the things you can do with that weirdness...so wonderful
 
Pip
trying to convince my team to do that
 
Maybe in the next implementation of Dynamics CRM they'll support TypeScript
And by that I mean the tools / workflow of it all working together would be nicer
 
@SpartanDonut supporting typescript is all a matter of ide
 
8:12 PM
perhaps I just haven't used JS enough to get used to the weirdness vOv
 
The CRM JS tools are weak to non existent to begin with
Something I have to investigate more
 
the last time i saw where typescript was supported was in phpstorm, and it required nodejs running a background service that monitored the typescript files and parsed them immediately
 
Maybe I should invent the tools lol
 
surely that same method can be applied anywhere
 
Why do I work in all these silly systems
 
Pip
8:14 PM
bbiab
 
phpstorm is quite a nice IDE
I bought it for working on Lowest Number
 
jetbrains is the shit
 
0
Q: Hack into a computer through MAC and IP address

user45016Can I hack into someone's computer if I know the MAC address of his modem and his public IP address? Is this possible? What kind of stuff would I be able to access?

 
intelliJ, phpstorm, resharper
those guys win the IDE game
 
yeah
 
8:16 PM
hah, this answer is hilarious
 
they have a db tool in development, i am praying that i will finally be able to ditch mysql workbench
 
woa
I use Sequel Pro for db interfacing, but it's pretty bare-bones.
 
0xDBE
the name is too clever for my taste
 
looks like it will be pretty cool
 
almo, you play lol
tell me something
i've only just tried the game this week, but i've been disconnected thrice
my connection seems fine each time this happens
 
8:25 PM
There are periods of them when you do get disconnected from the server
but I'd say I have connection problems in LoL at around 1 in 20 games or less
 
well, if it happens in the first game you ever play, you immediately get an email about being labeled as a leaver
 
and they come in clumps when there are server issues for a few days
I have not
 
mmm
welp, i'll play until they ban me, i suppose
 
if you're getting disconnected and it thinks you're a leaver, then you have a connection problem between you and them
when they have general connection problems on their end, several people in the game will get dropped and it seems to know when this happens
 
i follow that, but i can't detect a connection problem on my end
hmm
 
8:27 PM
maybe your ISP has a problem deep on their end
 
perhaps
 
like the friction between comcast and Netflix's ISP
that wouldn't show up at either Netflix's end or the user's end
but in the middle somewhere
 
mmm
i'm sure that comcast/netflix issue is entirely accidental though. probably due to the vikings stadium construction right next door to the 511 building
suuuuurrre
 
:D
 
in case the 511 building isn't common knowledge: micemn.net
if that building blows up, the internet in the US stops working for a while
 
8:31 PM
happened again. I write for tech support with some software. it asks what OS. I say Mac OS X Mavericks (It's a dropdown). Tech support says "uninstall the software. Get MS .NET 4.5. Reinstall the software using this .exe"
 
Pip
@SethBattin I would say that the internet all over the world stops working for a while if VeriSign gets blown up
(biased, I live near there)
 
relatively speaking, LoL's servers are extremely unstable. but that just means you'll get spikes of lag here and there, and once every couple weeks they'll just drop everyone from the server and have seizures while everyone tries to reconnect at the same time.
most games are fine
spikes of lag usually last like 5 or 10 seconds and then they're gone
 
@Pip i suppose there are lots of buildings like that. but the MICE is probably the only one that was ever a told by a football team that their building was going to be bulldozed. (that declaration was very, very wrong)
 
Pip
mhm
 
8:39 PM
@IcyDefiance i don't know what the deal was, i get serial, long-lasting "attempting to reconnect" messages, but all i can tell is that my internet connection is fine
in most cases the other players were at least active enough to report me for leaving
 
there's a thing called "LeaverBuster" that automatically flags leavers as well
 
oh yes
they busted me alright
 
I don't get "Attempting to Reconnect" very often
maybe once every two weeks or less
and I average 2-3 games a day
 
hmm, if it happens 2 days in a row then the problem is probably not RIOT's fault. I can probably get you a server address if you want to try a tracert next time it happens.
 
perhaps
 
mmm, i will keep that in mind
 
Pip
I have to play LoL and Dota more.... had no time lately
 
AND?!?! YOu can't be a fan of both. That's sacrilege.
So i've heard, that argument has been the main reason i haven't played either one until this week
 
hahah
Todders plays both
one thing that facilitates playing both is that you don't need to unlock heroes in dota
what WOULD be weird is liking dota 2, lol AND hon. that would be fucking strange man
because they're like all TOTALLY DIFFERENT GAMES
no similarities at all
 
8:57 PM
tbh I don't like dota at all, but it's mostly because there's no feeling of progression. it feels like there's no reason to keep playing.
if other people like that then more power to them
 
doesn't it have levels and a league system?
or are you referring to earning IP and buying shit
 
I don't think it had those last time I tried it, but it was forever ago. No idea what they've added to it since then.
if it has a league system now then my complaint might be invalid
 
Pip
@Almo it does
 
I thought it did
though I wasn't sure
 
Pip
has a thing similar to LoL's ranked systems starting at level 13
 
8:59 PM
been a while
right
how long it take to get to L13?
takes like 350-400 games in lol to get to L30 where you can play ranked
I think it's that many
 

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