The Heap™ – Consultancy ©® - 2014-07-24 (page 1 of 2)

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1:43 AM

@AaronBertrand this was posted after this one on SO which I just migrated here dba.stackexchange.com/questions/72203/… can you close the original DBA one?

@bluefeet surely

Thanks.

2 hours later…

3:36 AM

@bluefeet i didnt think your name was shirley

5 hours later…

8:48 AM

@swasheck is it?

1 hour later…

9:56 AM

14

Business Intelligence

Proposed Q&A site for collaborative Business Intelligence community (noob or pro) who nurture/discuss ideas/methodologies, value transactional data, create solutions, tools/softwares to address needs of BI, performance management and Business Analytics initiatives.

Currently in definition.

another proposal for a BI site?

didn't we have @ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells's proposal which got merged into DBA?

10:17 AM

@dezso It's an Airplane joke I think :)

2

10:39 AM

@PaulWhite When you've done that, want to come and write the SSIS package I'm struggling with? :D

@PaulWhite Probably can't afford your consulting rate though :-/

11:08 AM

Trust me, you don't want me to do that :)

11:25 AM

@PaulWhite Heh. can't be any worse than my SSIS butchery

11:49 AM

@JackDouglas obviously

1 hour later…

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

12:54 PM

@Marian We did. However it's been inactive for quite a long time and seems to have been deleted.

@JackDouglas I made a comment about my old B.I. proposal, which has been deleted off Area 51 at some time in the recent past. Do you think we need to dip our oar into the propoosal?

1:14 PM

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells someone should point out that the last time BI was proposed it got merged into DBA

I'm not sure how to do that on Area51, are you?

"create new discussion"?

@swasheck I only just got the joke!

...and even then only because it has so many stars, nice one :)

1 hour later…

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

2:17 PM

@JackDouglas I left a comment on the proposal

@JackDouglas I created a new discussion on the proposal.

2:35 PM

ta

voted

FFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

just listening to a sr. software developer talking about how we should move everything to nosql

@swasheck nosql = the best sql

@swasheck harsh words

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

:16763035 Remember the @COTW grand theory of I.T. skills:

not nice. thought better of it

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Incompetence goes up to the 95th percentile of the I.T. industry

2:45 PM

Peter Principle

wow. just wow.

@swasheck tell him postgres is NoSQL

another plane crash.

@JackDouglas hstore

uh huh

and JSONB

/JSON

@swasheck The Algiers one?

@ypercube yeah

3:00 PM

Would it be nice if extended comments on a question automatically created a chat room and prevented new comments? Too prescriptive? I'm aware of the auto-suggestion to move the discussion to chat, but this doesn't work if multiple users are involved.

@PaulWhite it's hard because users have to have at least 20 rep to chat

new users might not have that

@bluefeet How much rep do they need to comment in the first place?

@PaulWhite if it is for their own question, no restriction

otherwise 50

but the chat room could grant them explicit access which would bypass the 20 rep limit

couldn't it?

@JackDouglas not sure

3:03 PM

@JackDouglas That was my next suggestion :)

we could ask @shog9

@bluefeet I asked that they check that with the recommendation years ago

the other oft-requested feature is a way for mods to migrate the whole thread on demand

153

Q: Provide a tool for moderators to migrate comments to chat

One issue we have on Programmers.SE is that people like to have extended discussions in comments on answers and questions. Try as we might to delete long comment chains and educate them about chat (example 1, example 2, example 3, example 4, MSO example), our chat room sits relatively empty and ...

feature-request comments chat moderator-tools

64

Q: Disable chat migration notification if one of the users has insufficient rep?

Simple request, really. Can we add a detection for the Please avoid extended discussions in comments. Would you like to automatically move this discussion to chat? prompt, so that if one of the users in the "extended discussion" has under 20 rep it doesn't appear? I think a lot of t...

feature-request comments chat

3:05 PM

Coding an exception for new users that asked the question might put the shog off.

old enough that Atwood answered it :P

-1

:)

Ah so a lack of integration with chat might cause a problem.

I suppose the questioner can always respond by editing the question.

I currently handle by carpet-bombing entire threads, but only if I notice them and if they aren't still going on.

so anytime you want a load of comments removed, just flag one of them

or flag the post 'other' because then we can see who's flagging

and take special notice if it's @PaulWhite ;)

@JackDouglas I usually do if there is a long stream to be removed, but this example might not be suitable. It just got me thinking.

@JNK Can that situation arise other than with comments on a question the low-rep user asked?

3:11 PM

@PaulWhite yes I think it's 150 rep for chat

so if your network rep isn't 150 then you can't post in chat

Confused. dba.stackexchange.com/help/privileges/chat

oh its 20

lordy

I think maybe it used to be higher back when I was a younger man

Which is < the 50 required to comment everywhere

@PaulWhite I think those can all go?

@PaulWhite so yes you make a good point

3:15 PM

@JackDouglas I'm not sure. Certainly several are obsolete, but aren't there some that add useful information not contained in the question? Argh. I need to check it carefully...

@JNK I just get the feeling shog is going to arrive and make some crucial and definitive point I have missed.

@swasheck how does that computed column thing play with concurrency?

@PaulWhite he'll say "comments don't matter" ;)

Computed columns that reference functions that access data should be illegal. Shot at the border.

Poof! Looks like I can stop worrying about those comments. Thanks @JackDouglas

@PaulWhite whoopsie. so you're saying that my answer to that question is poor form.

@swasheck Well it's not an option I would choose, but it is creative. I didn't up-vote it because, while it 'solves' the problem in an alternative way, it doesn't answer the original question (IMO).

it doesnt. you're right

3:18 PM

That said, I didn't feel motivated to down-vote it either ;)

And I have a low down-vote threshold.

thank you for your restraint. i'm somewhat compelled to delete it because ...

it's homework

Is it? I thought the OP was just doing some self-teaching.

That said, I don't mind homework questions, if they show effort.

@PaulWhite they are illegal in some other dbs

not sure about 'shot at the border'

it's hard to shoot everything!

@PaulWhite ah. maybe it is just self-teaching. you may be correct. however, because it's not a "real" problem, my alternative is of little use to OP.

@JackDouglas Yes. Ha ha. Someone I regard highly said something similar recently.

@swasheck It's up to you. Part of me would hate to see your creativity destroyed. But another part of me would like to see data-access functions in computed columns destroyed. So I'm conflicted :)

If the OP comes back with 'how do I fix this' I think I'll VtC too localized and/or invite him to ask a new question with a simple repro.

3:28 PM

@swasheck I'm invading your city in 12 hours :-)

69

Q: Should "move-to-chat" be provided on demand (as a button perhaps)?

When comments get too chatty the move-to-chat feature asks if you'd like to move it out. But this often happens after the fact and thus doesn't prevent it. I propose that: Move-to-chat be provided as a button along side so that a user who knows their question or conversation may become drawn ...

feature-request comments chat

hello, you know what is the name of the tool that StackExchage use for data.stackexchange.com or some tool that have a similar function?

gone. besides, the actual answer is @PaulWhite 's which is why i was asking about the actual delete statement. in the end, we can simply blame it on entity framework

@EmilioGort are you talking about sql fiddle?

@EmilioGort there's the api

3:35 PM

no, somthing like data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/new

I need to implement something similar, wondering if there are some framework to do that

oh. no clue.

@swasheck Actually, there is another positive side-effect to you deleting that answer - the question is now Protected (which I couldn't do for another 2 hours).

how'd that happen?

@swasheck Auto-protect triggered by a certain number of deleted answers, I think.

hmph. alrightythen

3:49 PM

It's a good thing in this case because there was a user who kept posting 'answers' that were, at best, comments using a new user account each time.

@AaronBertrand I figure you might be curious about this since you've brought it up before

That's sneaky!

4:03 PM

hmph. interesting.

blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2014/07/24/…

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

4:27 PM

0

A: Opinions about merging Business Intelligence proposal with the DBA site

Agree with @Raffel! Definition hanging out at the DBA site: Database Administrators Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for database professionals who wish to improve their database skills and learn from others in the community.... A DB professional (DBA, DB Programmer, DB designer) ...

The original proposer's comment on the B.I. proposal

aw crap

guess that means mine's not getting selected

sqlsaturday.com/viewsession.aspx?sat=331&sessionid=23517

Is that hte only thing you submitted?

Nevermind. I looked for myself. You never know. They may choose his other presentation.

@mmarie your recruiter stood me up yesterday.

@Zane Really? Who was it? Josh?

Yeah.

4:41 PM

ugh... I'm sorry

was he supposed to call you?

Originally got a e-mail saying that I'd get at call at 930 then a google calendar request for 230 and didn't hear anything.

uh, new way of gaming the FGITW issue

39

Q: Initial Edits and Fastest Gun in the West

I've noticed a form of abuse recently. Take a look at this revision history I've noticed this user as well as several others often do the following: Leave an empty answer that does not contribute to the question. Delete it, so it can't be down voted. Write the answer down. Undelete it. This...

discussion answers deleted-answers

@mmarie i'd rather they choose his other topic anyway.

@Zane Josh was setting up a time for you to talk with Domnick, our managing partner. He is following up with Domnick to see what happened.

@swasheck The description starts with, "SQL Server 2014 includes a new cardinality estimator. This feature allows for statistics to be updated more frequently than previous versions of SQL Server, resulting in better query performance."

Um, no it doesn't.

4:47 PM

Good, so we established it's wrong and @swasheck should get the spot! :)

3

@Lamak feet of blue beat you to it. She's the FGitW!

i know it doesnt. but i suspect folks will look at the name and blow right past the error

and my tolerance for creating cutsie little abstracts is painfully low

@swasheck You think they'll select the President of PASS over you?

@PaulWhite I'm not surprised

@PaulWhite never. i'd never imply such a thing

4:49 PM

@swasheck Right. You'd state it explicitly :)

@PaulWhite well, then that's quite a bad description

though i'd state that it was the name and not the title ;)

@Lamak The first sentence is true.

and which mod cleared the stars on paul's um, no it doesn't

@swasheck I did. I get starred a lot, and @Marian's starred comment is better.

4:51 PM

or was it you, @PaulWhite and you didnt want to get cast under the iron

boom! fair enough

"cast under the iron" <- ???

@PaulWhite so, it doesn't result in better query performance?

Oh ha ha ha

i'm just making things up

@PaulWhite this should be fun

4:52 PM

@Lamak That statement is sometimes true.

So Tom covered all the bases.

True. False. NULL.

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Wasn't "BI" mentioned in some DBA.SE faq or about page? I can't find any mention now.

Morning/afternoon/evening all.

Good night :)

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@ypercube It was at some point. Haven't looked at the FAQ for a while now,

Perhaps we should change the Tour page to have "Database Administrators is a question and answer site for database and Business Intelligence professionals"

4:54 PM

So, to help me understand correctly:
- SQL Server 2014 includes a new cardinality estimator -> True
- This feature allows for statistics to be updated more frequently than previous versions of SQL Server -> False
- resulting in better query performance -> *sometimes* true

@PaulWhite @Lamak i am currently running tests in which the 2014 CE is demonstrably slower with a poorer plan than the "legacy" version. Legacy: 10 minute query, 2014: 103 minute

@Lamak The second statement is false.

True
False
NULL

After dithering around for a while, I have decided on a path for learning.

@PaulWhite that's what I wanted to write

4:55 PM

@Lamak Then you screwed up :)

@JohnP when you come to a fork in the path, take it.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@ypercube It's got this on it.

Ask about...

Database Administration
Advanced Querying
Data Modelling and database-design
Advanced Programming in built-in server-side languages
Data Warehousing and Business Intelligence

@PaulWhite don't I always?

I prefer spoons. Possibly sporks. Jury is out.

@Lamak rarely do you screw up

4:55 PM

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells right

@Lamak No, you're thinking of Seth.

^^^^

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Agreed.

Starting out with Database Design for mere mortals as a refresher/reinforcement, then XML. Then the fork will come :p

Though I do wonder if questions about every possible BI tool are on-topic here. They probably are?

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

4:56 PM

@PaulWhite That was the intention when we merged the original B.I. proposal.

@JohnP XML forked my database.

2

@PaulWhite i thought tool recommendations are decidedly off-topic

HL7 forked my world.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@swasheck Questions about a reporting tool would be on-topic in a B.I. forum.

forkin' a

4:57 PM

@swasheck Not recommendations, questions about the BI tool itself e.g. how do I xyz with QlikView?

ah

@swasheck I think he meant about resolving some issue with a BI tool: How do I do this in Tableau?

anyone else care to disabuse me?

@PaulWhite damn you!, now my comment is a duplicate ;-)

That's been renamed PowerQueryViewAzure-BI

@Lamak Slowest Gun in the West :)

4:59 PM

@PaulWhite no. that's me too.

@PaulWhite I prefer "Second Fastest"

ergo my loooooooow rep

@swasheck Where do you want rep? dba.se?

no

i dont "want" it ... i'm just saying it's a sign

Other than it forking your db, @PaulWhite, see any issues with those two books/concepts to start?

5:00 PM

i have to participate in order to get rep ;)

@JohnP which books?

@JohnP just read @PaulWhite 's blogs

Database design and then XML?

@Lamak - Yes.

those are book titles?

lol

@swasheck - The current book is Database Design for Mere Mortals. Haven't opted for an XML book yet.

5:02 PM

@JohnP The design book looks good, though I haven't read it myself. Why do you want to learn XML?

@JohnP I don't really know anything about XML

@PaulWhite - We use some XML in our current applications, so I understand the basic structure, and we acquired a new company that uses it sort of heavily.

@JohnP it's fairly ubiquitous outside databases

amazon.com/Pro-Server-2008-Experts-Voice/dp/1590599837

I've never been sorry learning about it

5:03 PM

I bought that one. Read it too. Still hate XML.

Plus I wanted to see if 1-box worked with Amazon.

and it's very useful in the database for certain things. It's a requirement for service broker.

(it does)

@JohnP Fair enough.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite I've built a few ETL processes that had to load from XML data sources. Still hate XML.

I also got the 2005 versions of the Micro$oft SQL server training kits for a couple bucks at the used book store, but I'm waiting on starting those until I get through the design refresher. I've had db design classes, but that was in 1990. ish.

There's a theme developing here :)

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

5:05 PM

To paraphrase JWZ
XML: Now you have two problems.

4

if you have specific XML question Mikael Eriksson is a good resource

He should write a book

he could I'm sure

I've used XML in SQL a lot but my own depth is pretty shallow

He could write a good book

yeah I bet he could

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

5:06 PM

I did think of writing a book titled:
Bringing intelligence to the business
- Ruminations from the trenches

Or something to that effect.

@JohnP my thoughts on XML are this ... it's an on-demand skill that i learned only to facilitate the specific function that i needed to accomplish (shredding extended event log files). i just dont think it's something that i'd pour that much brain resource into

That said, there's no money in books.

Unless you write Harry Potter or something.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@PaulWhite I think books like that are really best viewed as a vehicle to punt consultancy services.

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells That is very true.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Which is the reason I considered writing one.

5:07 PM

Where "consultancy" includes "training"

hey! i just got recruited (again) for my old job!

@swasheck - Yeah, I have a borrowed book Beginning XML with C# 2008 that I'm probably going to be using. I already have C# at an intermediate level, so should be ok there.

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells You already have more money than Croesus.

@PaulWhite Harry Potter and the deadly XML

6

@Lamak rated 18

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

5:08 PM

@PaulWhite I already have more income than Croesus. Unfotunately I also have a SO with expensive tastes and had a joint account for just a little bit too long.

2

An old story.

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

Unfortunately not a good one.

No. sigh

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

However, a bit of independent brand recognition might help boost my day rate, so I am considering it. Actually something quite narrow going into data architecture for insurance firms.

@JohnP I never had the benefit of a good book when I was learning SQL, but I would have found Itzik Ben-Gan's books very useful if they had been around.

2

@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Do you trade as CoTW Ltd?

SEO and all that :)

I would definitely buy a book authored by "Concerned of Tunbridge Wells".

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

5:14 PM

@PaulWhite No. I bought a company for £100 from First Contact when I arrived and never bothered to change the name.

I also think that dropping a copy of a book at interviews might help impress the natives.

Chapter 1: The humble policy dimension - how hard can it be?

@PaulWhite +1 for Itzik. @JohnP also - you have the power of The Heap to guide you

So he's doomed then.

doomed.....to awesomeness

depending on who's online at the moment

unless he listens to @billinkc

5:23 PM

or me

Or Kermit

but ... but ... but ... VERTICA

knees de la bees

Would that I could pin it

:)

@swasheck - I have the T-SQL Fundamentals on my Kindle, and the 2005 training kit book I picked up I believe is also Ben-Gan.

5:29 PM

@JNK no kidding

@JohnP T-SQL Fundamentals was the one I was thinking of.

The others are much more advanced.

@JohnP then you're doing well for yourself. and it's not just sycophantic cronyism that's causing me to recommend the technical posts by @PaulWhite and @AaronBertrand ... they're really frickin' helpful. i'd also recommend sqlskills.com (and most things by Paul Randal and co.) and erland sommarskog is some nice, light reading sommarskog.se

I'm tired. I might sleep.

@PaulWhite read some Erland

@Lamak Shush you

K, back to session prep

5:50 PM

@billinkc finish our demos!

I may have to kill a subordinate.

@JohnP are they INsubordinate?

rimshot.wav

@JNK - Badumbing. No, they took a glass container of iced coffee into the datacenter. Set it on a rack not noticing the cracked bottom, and the subsequent dripping of coffee into one of the call servers.

@JohnP yeah that's a killable offen(s|c)e

So...one 1u G5 server down the drain. Thank the maker for redundancy and backups...

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

5:53 PM

@JohnP Maybe not capital but certainly worthy of a jolly good beating. 6 months on the helpdesk I say.

He's our only infrastructure person at the moment. He's already on the helpdesk.

@JohnP are you serious?

@Lamak - Well, I should say our only infrastructure person here. The company has a couple hundred in various places.

He's usually pretty good, I think this was just a brain fart moment.

OnCall rotation for 6 months straight then

@JNK - See above. :)

5:57 PM

@JohnP I meant that about the ice coffe spill

Our infrastructure company wide is undergoing a reorg, staffing is all over the place.

@Lamak - Yeah, unfortunately. He's been working 15+ hours a day getting another center relocated to our facility, it was a sleepwalking moment.

It's just...well... ::snglftz::

TIL there's a Physical Fitness

there's some good sites like that

or at least INTERESTING

a lot of the interesting ones can't self-sustain tho :(

parenting was a good read too

@JNK with extreme prejudice

FYI our little site is 11th network-wide by traffic

We used to be much lower

6:06 PM

@JNK i was on there for all of 5 minutes.. seemed like a yahoo answers site

@Kermit - Yes, there is a physical fitness. fitness.stackexchange.com/users/3736/johnp

@JohnP that's where i found it

@JohnP are you a medical professional?

Also a beer

@Lamak congratulations on adding English to your LinkedIn profile

@Kermit I did?

when?

6:10 PM

user image

@JNK homebrewing

@Kermit hm, weird....I don't remember doing it

but, well

@Kermit - No, but I did work in an Air Force ER for 8 years. My first degree was exercise kines for a major, comp sci for a minor. I picked up a BS in IT a while after that.

a BS?

Bachelor of Science. As opposed to BA, Bachelor of Arts, etc.

@Lamak - It's basically the categorization of the different types of undergraduate university degrees in the US.

6:17 PM

@JohnP yeah, I follow. I just had seem that acronym used in another way

@Lamak - It's a bit different in the US as I understand than Chile, there you go and get a bachelors and then pick your emphasis. Here it's all kind of wrapped up in one program.

Yeah, I've seen that too. :)

@Lamak no. it's essentially the same thing.

;)

ha

@swasheck - Nice. :)~

i got a bs in biology (molecular emphasis)

6:20 PM

BS in Business Administration here!

now that's pure BS ^^^

@JNK were you a football player?

;)

Since when is Business Admin a BS? I've always seen it as a BA.

There's no science to it. Business administration is mostly smoke and mirrors.

@JohnP I also have a BS in Business Administration (International Business major)

The only science classes I took were social sciences and a class called Wines, Vines, and You. It actually contained science as we learned about trellis systems and chemical components in wine.

@JohnP in my program, that's how we understood sports medicine and related disciplines

;)

@swasheck no I'm just awesome

6:28 PM

@swasheck - Touche. :)

@swasheck smartypants

@bluefeet i wish it would translate into real-world stuff

smart in teh bookz ... dum in teh dba feeld

@swasheck mine doesn't really. My degree is Justice Studies

would be great if I'd stuck with law school

@bluefeet i'm just saying that i'm good at learning but, for some reason, the application part just doesnt seem to work well for me

ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells

@JohnP You could do Economics as a BA, B.Sc or B.Com at my alma mater.

7:05 PM

@swasheck - Everyone hears exercise science and thinks "Major for dumb jocks", but it's pretty involved, especially if you lean towards the clinical and research side of things.

@Kermit unless, of course, the one whom you're betting has seen this video

@JohnP i'm sure it is.

LUNCH!!

@swasheck that's not a reasonable bet

well i'm not a reasonable person

7:11 PM

116

Q: How do you decide when to go home for the day?

As a salaried software developer, I've worked in a few environments where I've been told "we don't have 9-5 hours here, we just expect you to get your work done". Which sounds idealistic, except that when I ask about how late in the afternoon I should stay, I get told "go home whenever your work...

2 hours later…

8:56 PM

yeah that's a good policy @Kermit

I told the folks here when I started I needed to leave by 5 as often as possible so I can see my kids

if you're up front about it it seems to work out better

I don't get this user....so, it's about everyone's opinion, just not mine

@Lamak: That is correct. You are not supposed to upvote the one answer you prefer. You are supposed to upvote any answer you find useful. The top answer is automatically determined by how many people found that answer useful compared to other answers. See, it's about everyone's opinion, not just yours: when people try to "game" the system by asserting their own preference for a single answer to "win", it all falls over. — Lightness Races in Orbit 8 mins ago

9:10 PM

@Lamak You're SUPPOSED to be a vote-distribution automaton that gives votes to all answers of worth, not just ones you like

derp derp

@JNK I seriously don't understand her reasoning

like, you "must upvote for every helpful answer", "how dare you withhold upvotes"

yeah some people are fools

I have no other explanation

well...I overreacted I think anyway. It just that the "What the heck are you doing withholding upvotes based on relative post age?!" just so over the top that it irked me

@PaulWhite I missed your contribution

ah, thanks

You're completely correct that it's your vote to cast as you wish, of course.

it's just that I can't see the logic behind that reasoning: "See, it's about everyone's opinion, not just yours"

of course, and that's why I voted how I wanted and the rest too

I'm not forcing anyone to vote another way

9:23 PM

I think LRIO may be a little emotional because their answer is -10

Well, -11 :)

maybe

9:42 PM

@PaulWhite how was that 2.5 hours of sleep?

@swasheck Glorious.

Oh yay, happy ending:

5

A: foreign key constraint violation issue

It's a question of timing. Consider deleting StudentID #1: The row is deleted from the Student table The cascade delete removes corresponding rows from Enrollment The foreign key relationship GPA -> Student is checked The trigger fires, calling MergeGPA At this point, MergeGPA checks to see i...

@PaulWhite sounds like the 4 hours I got yesterday

@bluefeet How come?

@PaulWhite it rockets through the universe it fuels the lies, it feeds the curse

@PaulWhite couldn't sleep so I decided to just get up

9:44 PM

Ah.

makes for a long day when you wake up at 12:45am

@swasheck That's a song. I know because I just googled it.

titled Glorious

@bluefeet It does. Happily, I only got up to take my wife to work, I can now go back to sleep.

@swasheck Indeed. Very clever.

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