« first day (498 days earlier)   
05:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

8:00 PM
@JackDouglas are you popping in to town to join us for a beer tomorrow?
 
@EvanCarroll Great question - thanks for posting.
@MarkStoreySmith didn't know that was happening :-)
but thanks for asking - I will check my diary
 
That concerned chap is passing through and I'm in town for training so we're going to rendez for a swift pint or six :)
 
Hides
 
@MarkStoreySmith sounds good - don't you live/work in London anyway?
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells You here?
I <amazingly> have yet another SSAS Question
google fu is failing me
 
8:04 PM
@JNK I suppose I could count as 'usual suspects'
 
@JackDouglas live yes but tend to work late usually. More because CotW is in town instead of Bournemouth tomorrow tbh
 
JNK
You do
so the cube I was telling you about
the AR thing
I need to do it for another client
and I have a set of procs that build all the tables in the data view etc
is there an easy way to create the EXACT same thing I made but point it at a different DB on a different server?
the cube itself will be on the same server
but my source data is somewhere else
 
@JNK You can deploy a cube to as many SSAS schemas as you want, and set up the data sources to point to another database.
Assuming the source data is in the same format.
 
JNK
its identical
basically we have a central database
and i am filtering by clientid
 
Is it in the same database - do you need to filter this at runtime?
 
JNK
8:07 PM
so the cube I made initially was for ClientA but I want to make the same thing for ClientB
The SSAS stuff is in the same DB
the source data and tables are gonna be a different DB and different server
but the structure is exactly identical
I filter it when I build the tables for the cube
 
That should be OK. Just deploy the cubes into another SSAS schema and configure the data source to point at the other client's database.
 
JNK
ok
 
Sounds like your cubes are getting traction.
 
0
Q: MongoDB Replica Set SECONDARY Stuck in `ROLLBACK` State

Chris W.During a recent automated update of our mongodb PRIMARY, when the PRIMARY stepped down it permanently went into a ROLLBACK state. After several hours in the ROLLBACK state, there was still no rollback .bson file in the rollback directory in the mongodb database directory. That, and also this li...

/dev/null
 
@DTest Upvote! I hope we have some web scale wizards who will answer this and similar mongodb questions.
 
8:14 PM
@NickChammas Was thinking the same, and also upvoted
 
I'm an expert in the mysterious NoSQL CSVflatfileDB!
 
JNK
they are!
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Big hit last week when my VP demoed them for the operations folks
 
@casperOne thanks, not sure that's what I was after though. Seems a shame it's going to be deleted after the amount of teeth-pulling I put it. :-\
 
@Phil Just had my boss ask me to do a project and my response was to store data in that same CSVflatfileDB out of pure laziness
 
@JNK well done.
 
JNK
8:17 PM
Now i need to research SSAS schemas
 
@Phil I'm a particular wizard with its query language regexql
@JNK Just like a database on SQL Server.
 
@DTest that doesn't sound good
 
JNK
the schema is like a DB?
or a schema is like a schema in SS?
 
A SSAS schema is like a database on SQL Server
 
JNK
OK
 
8:19 PM
If you call them SSAS databases people will probably know what you're talking about. The terms seem to get used pretty interchangeably on SSAS.
 
JNK
does it show in bids as a DB?
 
If you open the OLAP server in SSMS you should be able to see them in the object explorer. You can configure the target DB on SSAS or enter it in the deployment wizard if you're deploying through that..
 
@AaronBertrand it won't get deleted if it's got upvoted answers - it'll just stay closed iirc
 
JNK
OK
 
You know SSMS has MDX and XMLA query editors?
 
JNK
8:22 PM
nope not at all
Im a WIZARD man currently
hold your applause
 
Much like the SQL editor
 
JNK
i feel dumb
 
XMLA is a web service so you have to make up an XML file that has the web service request and the MDX query is a payload in the XML. You have to XML escape ;'s and so forth, but it can be quite useful for various things.
 
JNK
oh can i just script these out from SSMS?
 
JNK
8:24 PM
data source views, dimensions, etc
 
You can directly query the database. In theory you could make up a series of XMLA requests to construct a cube, but that's far too much like hard work.
Unfortunately MS never really refined DDL on SSAS to the point where you could easily knock up a file that built a cube in a text editor and run it in the way you can with SQL. Technically possible but far more trouble than it's worth.
 
@CadeRoux I'm a big fan of doing precisely that - all access to the data goes through a single well-defined transactional API. It allows you to (loosely) enforce all sorts of constraints you can't do with DRI and your API transactions map to business transations/rules naturally
 
@AaronBertrand I know it wasn't the point, but these 'gimme teh code' questions don't fly on SO, unless it's a really good question. More often than not, if you think your question is that good, that's your first mistake. By default, it's not.
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells too bad. Well I'll try to figure this out
 
Just build the cube in BIDS. I've never bothered to try building one by hand. However you can query them through the MDX editor.
 
8:28 PM
@casperOne I find SO quite frustrating. There's a huge influx of questions that have had 0 thought (and often editing) put into them
 
JNK
Well Im hoping I can build it and add all the dimensions from my other cube
 
@Phil Be the diamond on the other side handling flags knowing that what you're getting is a small fraction of the overall crap on the site (even when the queue is cleared, currently we have 380+ flags). =)
 
@JNK You can just deploy the same cube to another SSAS DB. You don't need to rebuild anything.
 
@JackDouglas It seems like an OO programmer who strives for decoupling and ability to refactor would AT LEAST want to use views so they COULD refactor if they wanted to.
@JackDouglas It seems disingenuous to me to talk about using ORMs and hibernate for the ability to change database platform agnostically and then not accept that after the level you hand off to the database there are also some kind of developer entities similar to yourself who might want to refactor and perhaps there should be a well-defined interface at that part of the system instead of "ALL TABLES ALL THE TIME".
 
8:34 PM
@JackDouglas Hey Jack, hope all is well, sorry to have crashed your room before like a n00b
 
@casperOne yeah I hear you
 
@casperOne you're always welcome here :-)
 
@JNK - see where it says database in the properties dialog, enter another database name and deploy. It will create a new DB on the SSAS server. Then you can set up the DB connection details to point to the other SQL Server source DB.
 
@JackDouglas I was going to invoke your name because I knew I was dropping in like "help meh plz" =) You doing well?
 
@casperOne Yes thanks, mostly good - how are you doing?
 
8:37 PM
@Phil Would you like COBOL with that?
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Brilliant
What is that in? It's not SSMS i dont hitnk
 
@JNK That's BIDS. Right click on the project and select 'properties'
 
JNK
WORD
 
@JackDouglas Well, although these past two days, extremely busy. I'm the de-facto DBA at my client, and well, that's not a good thing, haha. Given I have a task list as long as both my arms, being DBA for their data warehouse is an annoying side job which I don't get paid for. But really, I can't complain. I'm happy, wife is happy. Trying to have kids now. Exciting times.
 
@CadeRoux I use views for queries and functions for transactions - refactoring is a bonus, mostly I just want control. OO principles generally translate quite poorly to the database layer imo - or in some cases not poorly but just in very different ways that are almost unrecognisable to an OO programmer at first
 
JNK
8:40 PM
I get "There are no property pages for the selection"
 
@casperOne You have talent. You are "trying to have kids now" AND on The Heap
 
JNK
its fine its not that complicated of a project right now
 
@swasheck And in TL and SO =) Let's not forget I'm clearing flags 2nd to Bill. 5th all time (more than Jeff ever did all time already)
 
JNK
no worries @ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I'll get it, you've spent too much time on this already
 
@swasheck But thank you, that's kind of you to say
 
@casperOne well I'm glad if you are able to get help here every now and again :-) I guess we should expect to see a lot less of you soon if your plans bear fruit...
 
@JNK That's SSMS opened on a SSAS DB. If you open the 'data sources node' and right click on the data source. Select properties and it brings up that dialog. You can change the connection string there.
 
@JackDouglas Nah, don't plan on it. I'll still have to work, and I get most of my SO/SE modding done at work =) I'll be around. Can't forget the peeps. =)
 
@casperOne try hamsters
 
@DTest We've considered it. And monkeys with guns in their hands.
 
JNK
8:44 PM
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells but how do I get another copy before changing the connection?
 
Deploy it to a new DB from BIDS, then open the new DB in SSMS and change the connection string for the data source to point to your other customer's database. Then do a full process on the cubes.
End result: two identical SSAS cubes pointed at different sets of source data.
 
@casperOne For some reason that makes me think of @gbn
 
@jnk
12 mins ago, by ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
user image
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells I guess deploying to a new DB from BIDS is my issue. When I click on the DB in the solution explorer I get no options
 
Right click on the SSAS project and select properties.
 
8:46 PM
@JackDouglas My point is that there is no difference in perspective between OO programmers and DB programmers at the level of engineering principles. We all want decoupling, we all want well-defined interfaces, we all want layers and reliable independence of refactoring within layers. So why does the "dumb datastore" approach or the "everything in code and we'll just run a lot of loops" still persist?
 
JNK
6 mins ago, by JNK
I get "There are no property pages for the selection"
 
@CadeRoux Architects, ORMs, Agile. All at fault
 
@JNK Screenshot?
@Phil ... and now for a sketch about architects...
 
@CadeRoux because folk like to use the tools they know? I blame Java for (almost) everything
 
@DTest haha, it's how moderators are referred to a lot (I know gbn is not, but I know what you mean).
 
JNK
8:49 PM
 
What did you click to get that?
 
Software isn't designed these days. It's rapidly prototyped ("agile") in iterations based on (often loose) requirements. There's no time to design a datastore and then build on top of it. Much easier to write some shit Java and have it manage the DDL & add random columns whenever the object models change
 
JNK
Project-properties
if I right click the project in solution explorer I get a blank properties tab
could be a version thing, no idea
 
<starts 2012. hold on a sec>
 
JNK
this is old
 
8:51 PM
@JNK The screenshots I showed you were off 2005.
 
JNK
well not too old, VS2008
 
@Phil I develop like that too to a degree (it's hard doing it any other way when you work for SMBs), but still build the datastore first and code on top. I believe it is quicker.
 
2008 shouldn't be any different.
 
@JackDouglas I dispute that - they'll jump all over node.js or Ruby or jQuery or whatever the latest flavor is - they love to jump on the next tool bandwagon. It's not because SQL is declarative - they jump all over declarative things like XML and CSS. It's not the strictness - they'll love to limit themselves with frameworks like Rails.
 
@CadeRoux marketing ... it's the twitter generation. negligible attention span. wait ... what was i saying?
 
8:53 PM
@swasheck Is SQL just too old? I know it's inconsistent between platforms. I know it's a lot different from most languages - but it really is NO HARDER than modern JavaScript usage, which has jumped right into the functional deep end compared to when it first was used in the mid-90s.
 
@CadeRoux SQL is not hard, but set-based thinking is a different beast to functional thinking
 
@CadeRoux You don't do complex data manipulation in JavaScript
 
@CadeRoux SQL is mature ... and I love it.
 
@JNK Looks much the same on 2012.
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Then I don't know where I'm going wrong. I'll look at it soon. I really will need a way to automate this if I can
 
8:55 PM
Being able to do one does not automatically enable you to do the other
 
JNK
I have like 14 other customers that will want it
 
JNK
OK I don't see that
My top level is a DB
not a project
 
So, with the solution explorer, select the project and right click, then select properties. Works the same on 2005, 2008, 2008r2 and 2012.
@JNK Wrong explorer. You want the solution explorer for your project.
 
@Phil A LOT of stuff is moving to JavaScript. It should be in databases any day now - just like CLR SPs or Java stuff in Oracle. Does SSIS support it in scripts yet or just VB still?
 
8:58 PM
@CadeRoux C# and VB.Net. it does have an activex scripting task that can use WSH to run scripts.
 
JNK
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells not sure how to get that
 
View menu -> solution explorer
 
JNK
yep thats what I get
I closed and reopened
 
Can you see it now?
 
JNK
nope, got the same thing
 
9:00 PM
Get a room :P
 
JNK
we're done i have to head out
ill play with it more tomorrow
Thanks @ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells
 
Tabs at the bottom of the solution explorer
 
JNK
I'll see if I can figure it out
 
JNK
all i have is solution and properties
ill look into it tomororw, no worries
night all
 
9:01 PM
If you select team you will get a 'no property page' dialog. Try selecting the solution tab.
OK. I think this is just a hunt around the user interface problem.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells Last version I used SSIS script tasks (2005?), it only had VB. With JSON and the proliferation of various js libraries, I think it's only a matter of time before JS engines get into databases. Too bad the I18n support in js (and its builtin date) is so poor. It has some nice concepts to go with all its annoying quirks which will probably never get eradicated.
 
@CadeRoux Script tasks are .Net based. There is an activeX scripting component that uses WSH - a hangover from older pre-2005 DTS - but it's a different type of component.
 
@CadeRoux Those were the bad old days
 
You could probably bolt whatever the open-source mozilla one (spidermonkey?) into PostgreSQL without too much fuss - it's already got embedded perl, python, tcl and pl/pgsql interpreters.
SQL Server has a .Net CLR runtime built in, so you can load pretty much anything built in a language that supports .Net.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells what time/place are you planning to meet tomorrow?
 
9:07 PM
You can do all sorts of crap with Oracle extprocs
 
@JackDouglas Meeting at the pub by Platform 19 at Waterloo around 7 then following our nose.
 
@Phil Is that any relation to the cartridge API?
@JackDouglas Any idea what JS engine they're using?
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells actually I think it is a dead project
unlike the python one
 
Wouldn't surprise me if Oracle 12(c?) has JSON support
 
9:12 PM
@Phil it has just arrived in postgres 9.2 beta
 
@JackDouglas JS never really got much traction in OSS circles outside of web browsers. I think it's up against a fair bit of incumbency in Python and Perl.
 
postgres 9.2 will have JSON support
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells node.js seems to be catching on?
 
@JackDouglas was just typing that :)
 
9:13 PM
@JackDouglas JS based web app server?
 
@JackDouglas can't believe how much I've been hearing about that lately
 
There are a couple of mature JS runtimes now.
 
everywhere i turn around
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells no more than that
not just http
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells indeed. if you look at @NickChammas youtube link to the mongodb video (which is a hilarious view), there's a related video that talks about how only an idiot would use node.js. he got flamed in the comments
youtube.com/watch?v=1e1zzna-dNw ... he speaks from conviction
 
9:16 PM
it is all moot anyway - adding Java to Oracle as an alternative to PL/SQL changed the world not a jot
neither will all the rest
 
postgresql JSON data type just seems to be validation ... no specific JSON indexing or functions (yet) postgresql.org/docs/devel/static/datatype-json.htm
more excited about covering indexes and range types than the json data type
 
@swasheck yes - just for storing and validating json, analog to the xml type
a glorified check constraint
 
@swasheck forgot about that one!
 
my dirty little secret is that i barely know anything about javascript.
so i can't vouch for its viability
 
9:21 PM
"This is WIP version. "
 
"Multi dimension array is not supported."
 
that seems to be just for arguments
 
From the video it looks like node.js is a homebrew web app server and an async framework.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells pretty sure that's how it started. it's getting 1st-class treatment from MS now, though.
 
@swasheck So did silverlight at one point :)
 
9:25 PM
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells for 'web app' read 'sockets'
have you skimmed the wikipedia entry?
 
@JackDouglas So just an async server framework?
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells ahh silverlight ... remember when i watched the olympics on silverlight? yeah, neither do i.
 
I've used asynccore on Python, which does something similar, although Python didn't have a JIT compiler at the time.
If you have any blocking processes (DB reads for example) you've either got to have a handler, or spawn off threads for them.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells i've found python to be a valuable tool
 
Douglas Schmid's web page (if it's still up) has a whole pile of stuff on this type of architecture - they did a C++ framework called ACE back in the 1990s.
@swasheck I like it. @Phil's just started tinkering with it and seems to be quite chuffed with his results as well.
A very old-school C++ server framework, originally designed for telecoms applications. However, if you want efficient and fast, ACE certainly qualifies for that.
 
9:35 PM
Indeedy
 
I think there's an async server framework in BOOST as well now - maybe called BOOST:Async or something like that.
Given the amount of CPU you can actually put on a modern server, I wonder how much you could scale up something like ACE or BOOST:Async without having to resort to a distributed architecture.
 
Although the majority of my work is in SQL and C#, I've recently become very interested in functional programming and have become more interested in the modern idiomatic JavaScript (as opposed to what I learned and used for a lot of HTML DOM manipulation in the late 90s). I find that things like Haskell are much closer to SQL with the declarative and lazy evaluation where you effectively declare and see what the runtime does as opposed to the imperative model of other languages.
 
@CadeRoux Maybe you should try tinkering with erlang at some point.
Although most of my memories of functional programming stem from when I worked as a tutor on a first year functional programming course. Trying to make sense of lab work done by students who really, really just didn't get functional programming at all was quite a painful exercise.
Not only did you have to think of the problem in functional terms, you got to try and deconstruct the misconceptions of someone who just hadn't twigged onto it at all ans was completely barking up the wrong tree.
This was the compulsory course to get into stage 2. It was a most effective filter to keep people out of the CS department who really had no business being there.
"Get your head around functional programming and we'll let you into Stage 2"
@CadeRoux On a side note, is MS still punting F#? It's a descendent of the ML family and plays nicely with other .Net languages.
 
@ConcernedOfTunbridgeWells The whole no-side-effects thing is a very interesting constraint which has a lot of payoffs. Yes, I think I'm going to invest some time looking at F#, since it obviously fits well in the .NET ecosystem. Also, Mono since I'm interested in Android and haven't really done any mobile native stuff since the Psion days.
Time to pick up the kids, have to go.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:48 PM
@MarkStoreySmith @NickChammas @swasheck Thanks for helping me earlier. I've posted the following question as a result (and I'm sure one or any of the people on DBA can answer it way better than I can). Thanks again for the pointers and help.
0
Q: Performing data update operations while backing up a large, transactional SQL Server database

casperOneI have a large (in the tens of millions of records) database that I am going to perform a full database backup on. However, the database is large enough that transactions can start before and during, as well as commit during and after the backup takes place. For example: T0 = Transaction A sta...

Stop stalking me @BenBrocka =P
 
@casperOne What? I'm always in here...even if I rarely talk
 
@BenBrocka Likely story.
 
05:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

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