The Frying Pan

5:54 AM

@AnubianNoob a sound strategy

6:30 AM

Good morning, @ElendilTheTall

7:05 AM

@Jay - thanks for the edit. How did your sourdough starter tun out?

Jolenealaska

Hi Sweetie. I may be back in a few hours. G'night (morning) for now, all!

@Stephie hi

@jolenealaska bai

7:49 AM

Is an oven pan the same thing as a baking pan? I'm looking at this recipe.

epaperpress.com/recipes/bread.html

Also, what contains the dough in this recipe? It looks to me like nothing does, but I'm encountering scepticism here.

@FaheemMitha Yes, any large, flattish heatproof container will do - the water is supposed to create a humid atmosphere that allows for a better oven spring.

This is a free-form loaf, no "container" required. Or, more metaphorically speaking, the gluten strands keep the dough in shape.

thekitchn.com/word-of-mouth-oven-spring-47327

Oh, and looking closely at the recipe, it appears a bit too fussy for my taste. I'm very vary of the "warming the dough" step - this can be simplified if you take the right percentages from the start, rest long enough in the fridge and simply let the dough get to room temp for an hour or so.

8:06 AM

@Stephie Well, if you have alternative suggestions, do tell. This was from Elendil.

@Stephie "better oven spring" means the dough will rise better?

@FaheemMitha see link above for "oven spring"

If your bread surface dries out too quickly, the loaf can't expand properly. The loaf will either remain dense of crack/rip at a random place.

Ok, how to simplify this....

@Stephie Ok, one more thing. That recipe mentions white bread flour. Is whole wheat flour Ok? That seems to be what we are using here.

Though my cook says that this whole wheat flour is white in appearance. Is that normal? I can photograph the bag.

A: How does the Croatian system of flour categorization correspond to the systems of Western Europe and USA?

@FaheemMitha Bread vs. cake flour refers to the gluten content. In the US, you typically have cake flour with a rather low gluten content and bread with a higher. Gluten makes the typical bread-consistency.

Whole wheat is a completely other issue: it refers to which parts of the grain are used - whole wheat should use everything, "white" is only the starchy inner part of the grain. I had a post somewhere....

Ah, here it is. See for yourself how this relates to the system in India.

2

Flour types are quite different in various countries, but yes, all flours are basically made from crushing grains (wheat in this case). A grain mainly consists of three parts: Source: http://www.californiawheat.org/industry/diagram-of-wheat-kernel/ The bran. The outer layer of the grain. T...

@Stephie @FaheemMitha that 'warming in the oven' part isn't in the original recipe, I didn't realise they'd included it

bizarre

I just leave it for an hour in a not-cold place

@ElendilTheTall Very. I was just about to suggest likewise. Leave it to reach room temp / raise a bit (don't know how much this recipe rises in the fridge), shape, bake.

I prefer to do a few stretch-and-folds before I dump the dough in the fridge, just to get the yeast a head-start - half an hour to an hour is usually fine. But I usually go for ca 1% fresh yeast (= 0.3 or 0.4% dry).

8:22 AM

the original recipe also only calls for an overnight rise, not 24 hour

@FaheemMitha just buy The Bread Baker's Apprentice :D

@ElendilTheTall what are the original percentages?

¯\ _(ツ)_/¯

I don't have the book to hand... some of us work for a living :P

@Stephie This flour advertises itself as whole wheat. This is probably a dumb question, but shouldn't it then be brown in appearance?

brownish

And thanks for the feedback, @Stephie and @ElendilTheTall.

8:26 AM

personally I would not use all wholewheat

try and find white bread flour

@ElendilTheTall No? For bread? Why not?

No. Not for that kind of recipe.

Too dense.

I'll take a photo of the bag and post it. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the label.

@Stephie Is there such a thing as too dense for bread?

Of course there is

And isn't brown healthier than white?

8:27 AM

it's like eating a mat of loft insulatiomn

@FaheemMitha blah blah blah

@ElendilTheTall Hmm.

usually you would use a mix of white and wholewheat

@ElendilTheTall Urban myth, apparently.

@FaheemMitha that, and health isn't the only damn consideration when choosing what to eat

@ElendilTheTall Well, maybe that is what this is. In India, one does not take ingredient labels too seriously. Assuming they even exist.

@ElendilTheTall Maybe so, but it's an important one.

8:28 AM

@FaheemMitha in moderation

@ElendilTheTall Everything, even health, in moderation?

@FaheemMitha healthy food, yes

Ok.

sure, it might give you an extra few years. you might spend those years pissing yourself in a nursing home. you might get run over by a bus tomorrow.

@ElendilTheTall Sometimes you're a cheery sod, you know that?

Ok, taking the photo of the bag. Hang on.

8:31 AM

@FaheemMitha my message is cheery: ditch the quinoa and have steak now and then, carpe diem!

@ElendilTheTall Sometimes I eat steak. Not usually carp, though.

I wouldn't eat freshwater fish in India either

too many corpses in the water

@ElendilTheTall I don't know if that is actually true. It's actually possible to give India too much of a bad rap.

@FaheemMitha no fish involved: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpe_diem

@Stephie Yes, I know. It was an attempt at humor.

I didn't say it was good humor.

And I saw that silly Robin Williams movie too. The kids standing on the desks, yada, yada.

Ok, photo taken. Hang on.

8:38 AM

@FaheemMitha I've seen it numerous times. They employ 'low caste' people to pull them out eventually >.<

@ElendilTheTall Seen it where?

@FaheemMitha TV, magazines

@ElendilTheTall That's a little vague, but Ok.

Well, that's the wrapper for the flour.

@FaheemMitha sorry, I can't remember the specific programme from years ago

@Stephie ^^

8:42 AM

yeah, that's basically all purpose/plain flour

@ElendilTheTall Would that work Ok for bread, then?

you need something with a higher gluten content (the protein entry on the nutrition label) - 13-14%

@FaheemMitha no

not very well

@ElendilTheTall For the bread?

@FaheemMitha yes

it may be labelled as strong white flour

Which number do I need to be looking at? The 12.2% protein? That should be a bit more?

8:44 AM

yes

@ElendilTheTall Ah, Ok.

like i said - 13-14%

So "strong white flour" would have 13-14% protein instead? And such a minor difference matters?

yes

Hmm. Ok. Strong white flour, then.

So, what kind of problems do less gluten cause? Not enough of a crust?

8:46 AM

density

gluten provides structure

low gluten = poor structure = dense bread

Lack of gluten means the dough can't "trap" air/CO"/steam properly, your bread stays flattish and dense.

you want light, fluffy, airy bread

@Stephie I've just edited one of your answers :P ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

I see. So, not light enough. Got it.

correct

will you be rolling up your sleeves and making this yourself?

You found another "tyop"?

(Thanks!)

8:48 AM

@Stephie you went all Teutonic with your soft Js

@ElendilTheTall Most definitely not.

@FaheemMitha you should

it is very therapeutic

@FaheemMitha Why not?

@ElendilTheTall In an ideal world, I'd do lots of things.

what's stopping you?

8:49 AM

@Stephie Laziness, apathy, other things to do. But mostly (and I can't stress this enough) I have someone else to do it for me.

tut

@FaheemMitha you could skip one round of yoga - working with dough is very relaxing.

@ElendilTheTall ^^

you might as well just buy it from a shop then

@Stephie I'll consider it. Connection to the earth and all that? And yoga isn't skippable.

8:50 AM

it is a meditative process - you can simply concentrate on the simple labour of working the dough

@ElendilTheTall You can only buy terrible bread here. Hence this discussion. If they had good bread, we'd just buy it.

@ElendilTheTall Ok.

also, you have the feeling of accomplishment of creating something with your own two hands

something edible and delicious, to boot

@FaheemMitha That and creating something as basic yet essential as bread.

@ElendilTheTall That's nice. But something that doesn't last for very long.

@Stephie Noted.

nothing lasts very long

8:51 AM

Thanks for the encouragement.

and you can always make more bread

@ElendilTheTall Not true. Consider the works of Da Vinci.

Today a lazy apathetic curmudgeon, tomorrow Bombay's Best Baker!

Just for example. Also, Shakespeare and Bach and stuff.

@ElendilTheTall curmudgeon? You wound me, sir.

They will all eventually be forgotten

@FaheemMitha do you demand satisfaction?

8:53 AM

Ever heard of these very elaborate mandalas that are painstakingly created, then ceremonially destroyed?

scmp.com/news/asia/article/1681547/…

Slicing a fresh loaf is the miniature version of that.

@ElendilTheTall Yes, I want some tasty bread. That would be satisfying.

@Stephie try it with painstakingly made patisserie

@Stephie Yes, Indians are insane. Maybe I've mentioned that. Well, humans are insane. Indians are more so.

8:54 AM

opera cake >.<

@ElendilTheTall Hmm?

Opera cake

Opera cake is a French type of cake. It is made with layers of almond sponge cake (known as Joconde in French) soaked in coffee syrup, layered with ganache and coffee buttercream, and covered in a chocolate glaze. According to Larousse Gastronomique, "Opéra gateau is an elaborate almond sponge cake with a coffee and chocolate filling and icing." The cake was popularized by the French pâtisserie house Dalloyau. == See also == List of French desserts Tiramisu Food portal == References... ==

@Stephie yummy.

when you spend hours hand crafting something like this, it is bittersweet to have to cut into it

@ElendilTheTall Yet utterly satisfying.

8:56 AM

yet utterly heart breaking

(Provided you find somone else to clean your kitchen.)

@ElendilTheTall sic transit gloria.

@FaheemMitha More transcendent: A minute in the mouth, a lifetime on the hips.

a moment on the lips, a lifetime on the hips

don't mangle it, woman

:P

I prefer it in Latin.

8:58 AM

@ElendilTheTall Had to translate...

C'mon, for a non-native speaker I'm not that bad. At least I hope so.

@FaheemMitha momento in labiis, a vita in coxis

@ElendilTheTall Thank you.

Q: Is it possible to create this low calorie high fiber brownies?

@Stephie it's a struggle to understand what you're saying most of the time

it's like listening to a donkey trying to form words

;) <runs away>

I jest of course, your English is virtually flawless.

This annoys me

2

I have been looking at some of the low calorie brownie options online and have not found one I can sink my teeth into, without worrying about my hips. So I decided to think up a whole new recipe of my own: Ingredients for your average Brownie Soft Butter, for greasing the pan Flour, for dustin...

Yes, probably, but why bloody bother?

Don't try and make unhealthy things healthy. You're not making a good thing better, you're making a bad thing worse.

I wonder if anyone here will know what "strong white flour" means.

@ElendilTheTall Or you could just not eat unhealthy things.

@FaheemMitha Life is to short for that. If it's unhealthy (by what standards, anyway?), eat it with moderation and balance it with healthy (same question) foods.

9:06 AM

@FaheemMitha exactly

again, everything in moderation - but the key is including moderation

Speaking of unhealthy: I'm off to get me a nice cup of coffee, which is unhealthy by the definition of many as it contains caffeine and sugar, yet kicks my too-low blood-pressure in the "functional" range. See you later, guys.

cya

@Stephie Thanks for the assistance. So, "strong white flour"?

yes. or just check the label

9:37 AM

@Cindy I see you there ಠ_ಠ

hast du ein Laptop?

wo ist der Laptop?

9:55 AM

@Cindy wo bist du?

@ElendilTheTall This is my default homepage. I wasn't really here yet. No laptop yet. Guess I'm in for day 3 of waiting.

jeez

and this because of the weather?

I could miss it today, though. I have a doctor's appointment at noon.

eek

can it be left with a neighbour?

@ElendilTheTall Not really sure. At first I thought the weather may have delayed it but I really don't think that's the case now.

@ElendilTheTall They usually won't. And most of the people close by work so they would have a hard time finding someone even if they would.

10:02 AM

do you have a tracking number?

@ElendilTheTall I wish.

the office must have it though, can't you call them?

i haven't had any communication at all except for the e-mail I told you about and one other from the home office asking me to send a couple of forms.

...

can't you call them?

@ElendilTheTall I thought about it, but the only person I have a number for in the office would be clueless as to this part of things.

10:07 AM

hmmm

call the switchboard?

@ElendilTheTall It's an automated system and I have no name or extension number. I don't even know if the IT dept. is in that location.

wow

are you sure they know you're working for them? :)

I wondered about that. ;) I haven't even received a welcome e-mail.

jeez

well, as long as they pay you, just lie low!

I think that it wasn't sent when it should have been and that my manager must know it. Otherwise she would have contacted me. I will send her an e-mail today. Bear in mind that I'm still searching and applying. I'm hoping this works out but I know that the job can be very intense under the best circumstances and from what I've seen so far, it could quickly become a nightmare. Have my eyes open to it.

@ElendilTheTall That's really all I can do.

10:20 AM

cindy cindy cindy

you don't do things the easy way do ya?

@ElendilTheTall Never. You could tell that from my happy murder.

well

let's change the subject

um

have you printed your lighthouse photo yet?

Not yet. I was actually thinking of taking it somewhere so that I can get a larger print.

I want to put it in my office.

Staples do poster prints very cheaply (here)

We don't have any Staples close but I think Office Max should, as well. If not, there is a Kinko's in Norfolk that should do a good job with it.

What's for lunch today?

10:34 AM

some mug noodle thing

nothing in the fridge

a very poor show

Since I can get out today I may grab lunch while I'm out. :)

ooo

what are you in the mood for

I could go a nice falafel pita

lots of mint yoghurt

chilli garlic sauce

If only I could find one. But that could be on the dinner menu.

What's good in your area?

seafood <gag> presumably

I would really like a Noodles & Company Med salad. But that would be too far out of the way for today. But some Zaxby's wings in nuclear sauce would be doable.

10:42 AM

bone-in chicken <gag>

@ElendilTheTall Boneless always!

ok, well, now you might be on to something

though I'm not a huge fan of nuclear

heat, fine. mega-heat... i don't see the point

to each their own

It's not as hot as it sounds. But it has a really good flavor. I like some heat, but it's always about the flavor.

Their insane sauce I can't take. It is mega-hot and really doesn't taste all that great.

words to live by

I don't believe I have ever had chicken wings

They do really good fried mushrooms and onion rings, too. They use fresh mushrooms and onions and a really light batter, fried golden.

10:50 AM

hard to beat a good onion ring

@ElendilTheTall Which part of the chicken is your fave?

the breast. I know, I know. I dislike fatty meat intensely.

there are few things worse (Elendil's First Law notwithstanding) than fatty pork

You would probably like boneless wings. They are white meat but slightly more moist than the breast.

@ElendilTheTall I so agree. I can't believe how many people like greasy chopped BBQ here. Gag me. We usually make our own so we can keep the grease out.

pork in general is my least favourite meat

unless it's been baconated

Bacon. Make me swoon. :)

Although, I do a mean walnut crusted pork tenderloin.

10:59 AM

um. not a big fan of walnuts.

but I don't mind tenderloin

chipotle rubbed

or marinaded in soy, garlic, honey, sesame oil and rice wine

I do a nice pork stroganoff

Pecans work very well with it, too. Ooh, pork stroganoff! Never did that. Only beef.

That may be on my menu now!

Another thing that I've been wanting lately is the exception to Elendil's First Law. We have a Chinese restaurant close by that really does it well.

Hi @Stephie!

@Cindy if you can get hold of apple brandy, it works very well

@ElendilTheTall I will see if it's available.

do

haiku competition... go!

Cindy waits, patient,
Where is her laptop, pray tell?
Only Fedex knows

11:17 AM

Good one!

ElendilTheTall,

Loves photography so well,

Great photos he takes.

aww shucks

Hey, that reminds me - Did you look into the job you were interested in?

Yes. Resume is complete. I was all set to do a cover letter when I went further into their online booking system and found they don't want one

there is only provision to attach a CV

so it's just a matter of firing it on over

Well, get to firing! Good luck!

11:32 AM

merci

I suspect I will need it

@ElendilTheTall You are very talented and have a great passion for photography. That should be obvious to anyone who looks at your photos. So, while I wish you good luck, I don't think you need it. Your attributes will be enough. :)

Still, good wishes always!

Off to fix breakfast. Back in a few.

11:48 AM

Thanks. I don't think they want a talented photographer however. They want someone who can post-process efficiently. I can do that too. My main problem is lack of relevant professional experience.

we shall see

ok, enjoy

@Cindy What is nuclear sauce?

@Cindy But they have formally hired you, right?

@FaheemMitha hot sauce in which chicken wings are tossed

@Cindy Hi!

@ElendilTheTall so you are ready to switch careers? Cool!

12:26 PM

@FaheemMitha Yes.

@Stephie Hi again.

@Stephie that would require having a career in the first place

@Cindy Had just logged in before - then the minors required my undivided attention. Sort of illogical, if you have 2 children.

@Stephie Lol.

I only have one and he's old enough that he rarely requires anything.

Am just now setting up a cloudspace for our parent's council - I was the last that one to put on the absent blank face when a new chair was elected so I got stuck with the job. And as insuffereable know-it-all and small-scale revolutionizer I decided that somehow all the "ask X" and "Y probably knows" information needs collecting in one place.

Was torn between a three-ring binder and the cloud, choose the latter.

much more 21st century

12:39 PM

But we are talking 21st century mums here.

They all WhatsApp like crazy, but take notes in a paper "family planner".

I prefer hand writing notes, especially reminders. I retain the information better.

Setting up a facebook group would have probably been their choice, alas, they voted for me so they are stuck with e-mail and cloud space. And yes, I write by hand a lot, too. But for sharing...

@ElendilTheTall Me too.

@Stephie Ah. For sharing, I prefer letter-pressed, hand-foiled notecards

@Stephie That's okay. Maybe they will learn from it.

12:43 PM

@ElendilTheTall Back to Regency, are we? <curtseys>

I will have to write a pile of invitations and such, but my recipients will have to live with the .pdf version of said notecard.

(Question to self: Why was I stupid enough to let our principal rope me into this?)

Elendil's Law #546 - Never volunteer for anything

I was volunteered. Sort of.

Voluntold

@ElendilTheTall Word of the day ;-)

But either hubby or I will volunteer / run for parent's council at son's school. They need someone to watch them closely. Or light a proverbial fire under some less proverbial buts.