The DMZ

Martin Rory Ingesen

12:00 PM

nop @raz

But I did read it as "Is my mom compromised?"

raz

@MartinRoryIngesen really? They had >! for their quote. I removed the ! and everything was fine.

Martin Rory Ingesen

Isn't >! used to hide the quote? Like a "hold over to show"?

raz

@MartinRoryIngesen Apparently, that's what it was doing

Martin Rory Ingesen

Also known as spoiler tags

AviD

I am always morbidly curious what founders of security startups, who have no background, experience, of basic knowledge of security, are thinking.

Martin Rory Ingesen

12:02 PM

security.stackexchange.com/editing-help#spoilers

AviD

"I'll pick it up as I go along! But this baseless idea we had while drunk is probably great!"

Martin Rory Ingesen

Totally secure! This Gibson guy approved of it!

raz

@AviD Well yeah, but they're drunk. So they'll forget it in the morning.

AviD

"Other people have less clue than us, we can fool them! But this baseless idea we had while drunk is probably great!"

"Oh no, I actually know a lot, I'm a thought leader. I've installed Norton AntiVirus for my parents! And this baseless idea we had while drunk is probably great!"

raz

Man who took the jelly out of your donut @AviD

AviD

12:04 PM

@raz heh. I saw an actually relevant careers.so ad, clicked it, sounded interesting - then read it, and seemed clueless.

Common pattern.

Martin Rory Ingesen

@AviD We'll just pivot!

AviD

@MartinRoryIngesen oh yeah, that too.

Security is hard.

Martin Rory Ingesen

@AviD We are a agile stealth-mode startup!

AviD

you cant just dump an idea on people without knowing what is already out there, understanding the threats, etc.

Well, you could, and people do often, but it won't work.

Well, it WILL work, if "work" means getting a stupid large investment and selling to stupid people.

Martin Rory Ingesen

Just calm yourself thinking they won't last long.

CodesInChaos

12:06 PM

@AviD linky?

Martin Rory Ingesen

The startup-world is ruthless.

AviD

@CodesInChaos meh, no need to shame anyone specific. They are out there, and they are legion.

@MartinRoryIngesen I think you mean "stupid".

@MartinRoryIngesen right, they'll be bought out within a couple of years.

CodesInChaos

Give us your money to finance our bullshit-bingo gambling addition.

AviD

@CodesInChaos my favorite example is a company bought by F5 a couple years ago. They were originally founded by a consulting company (a middling and barely competent one, but only at pentesting), who created a product that basically ensures the login passwords are scrambled on the client side before submitting to the server. They actually managed to sell to a few large banks (that bought without understanding the risk model), and then got acquired for a sick sum by F5.

oh, and the cherry - within 9 months of closing, the VP in charge of the acquistion was questioning the value of even bothering to integrate their product - since, besides being a disgusting mess of unengineered crapware (well, they are pentesters, not software engineers), he started realizing the very little value it would provide to F5's core feature set.

Due diligence fail.

CodesInChaos

Writing a javascript password encrypter sounds like a day's work to me. Though I have no idea why I'd want to do that.

Martin Rory Ingesen

12:14 PM

Genius. I'm going to create a program that scrambles the password on the server side! I will call it... N'Cryption.

I'm thinking MD5, who's with me?!

CodesInChaos

@MartinRoryIngesen http digest auth

Martin Rory Ingesen

nonono, you need a agile, web 2.0 name!

with high velocity!

Really disruptive!

Making the world a better place! Cyber secure it!

CodesInChaos

@MartinRoryIngesen For high velocity hashing I could sell you my great BLAKE2 hash. Super faster, super secure.

Martin Rory Ingesen

@CodesInChaos Great! We'll be a game-changer! With our cutting-edge mission critical and intutive product!

I'm creating a MVP as we speak! Using only Google Forms

AviD

@CodesInChaos "This will protect you from all kinds of malware! Also SSL gets it wrong, we can do encryption better!"

CodesInChaos

12:20 PM

@AviD Javascript crypto 4ever.

AviD

@CodesInChaos actually it should be a bit more than a day's work, when you think about the necessity of secure key management and such

CodesInChaos

@AviD Just use the key the server tells you to use.

AviD

@CodesInChaos also, another benefit it has - it prevents some password managers from working, and it won't let your browser store passwords. Win!

@CodesInChaos of course. but to do remote key management securely... mind you, this is not a 40-person product, just think there are some issues to handle that will take more than a single day.

CodesInChaos

@AviD Don't prevent browsers from storing passwords. Prevent them from filling in the password field on the second visit.

AviD

(not much more)

@CodesInChaos well, both actually - the browser tries to store the scrambled password. Which helps no one.

took me a while to debug that.

I had actually flagged their product as a vulnerability in the system I was auditing. Didnt realize it was an actual product, or that they even did this on purpose.

Had a reeeeheeelly strange discussion about this with them (the bank that was using them), let me tell you.

"umm, you guys DO know what year it is, riiight?"

good times.

(btw when I said its not a 40-person product - I meant it shouldnt be. There actually WERE 40+ people working at that company when it was bought out.)

Simon

12:27 PM

@RoryAlsop Fair enough :p

@AviD WOOHOO @@@@

AviD

@Simon @RoryAlsop hahaha I wondered that you were swearing in Dio's name...

CodesInChaos

Another great business plan:

@user1666620: when you can send message to every one in telegram, why not to send all you can? — karimkhan 38 mins ago

AviD

wut

W

O

W

i NEED to do this

CodesInChaos

6

Q: In Gary Bernhardt's talk about Ruby and JavaScript surprises, what does "wat" mean?

There's a video of a conference presentation by Gary Bernhardt about surprising behavior in the Ruby and JavaScript computer programming languages. At the beginning of the video, Seth asks the audience: You guys know what 'wat' means?" [He makes a 'wat' sound. He also shows a silly photo ...

AviD

@CodesInChaos I like your comment there

@CodesInChaos yeah, that made me laugh

people ask crazy questions on English.se.

someone once asked about a madeup word I used in a revision comment.

SOMEBODY SAID SOMETHING AND I DONT KNOW WHERE HE GOT HIS WORDS FROM

and everyone was trying to guess what I meant

Simon

12:37 PM

@AviD I saw what you said that you deleted, that was mean son.

AviD

@Simon :-$

Rory Alsop

@AviD not anymore. Because {channel tunnel|immigration|traffic jam}

AviD

well, thats why I deleted it, duh

@RoryAlsop so, how big is it?

@RoryAlsop forbes.com/2008/04/10/…

Simon

3

Q: A design update is coming!

Most of the changes won’t be visible; these tweaks go along with recent updates that were made to Stack Overflow: We are moving the site's CSS to a newly refactored LESS system, so that it's easier for us to fix SE network CSS bugs globally and launch new features in the future. We are updating...

discussion featured design

That's a lot of bullshit though when you think about it.

AviD

huh, Disneyworld is only #5.

Simon

12:40 PM

"We're updating the CSS to then update to the new CSS".

Rоry McCune

@AviD TWSS

@RoryAlsop ugh not a good time to go darrrnn sarth

AviD

@Simon pfft. Welcome to software engineering, when maintenance is a concern.

CodesInChaos

@Simon The only bullshit is that they're downgrading the profile page.

Simon

@AviD pls, it's been 189 months.

Rory Alsop

@Adi the Rory anniversary, or the other stuff

Rоry McCune

12:41 PM

@Simon isn't that longer than you've been alive?

Simon

@CodesInChaos Downgrading?

AviD

@RoryAlsop Roryversary

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop ah yeah it's your 1700th aniversary isn't it?

Simon

@RоryMcCune Yes, I've only been around for 144 months.

CodesInChaos

@Simon Far more annoying to navigate due to splitting the information among two levels of tabs.

Simon

12:42 PM

o

Codes da grumpy old man :D

AviD

@Simon Nope, they havent done it yet.

Nope, still not.

Nope.

Nuh uh.

CodesInChaos

@Simon I'm not even thirty.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune did you see it's also our 8th.

AviD

Hmm.

CodesInChaos

So I'm only a grumpy middle-aged man.

AviD

12:43 PM

@RoryAlsop I take it you're not counting the original seasons.

Simon

@CodesInChaos Fair enough. How old are you, 29?

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop heh, I just saw that! time flies...

Rory Alsop

@AviD no, I mean mine and Rory's 8th Facebook anniversary :-)

CodesInChaos

@Simon Date math is hard.

Probably 28.

Simon

@CodesInChaos pls, I have no idea what the year you were born is.

Rоry McCune

12:45 PM

@CodesInChaos ah crypto people.. AES math easy, date math hard :op

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune we are at KatFest - normally would have taken the M20 but instead took the M2 to Faversham and then south to the gliding club

Wasn't bad. Just over 9 hours elapsed

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop ahh, are you sans kids?

I can't imagine 9 hours in a car with kids <shudder>

CodesInChaos

@RоryMcCune My day job is actually quite a bit of date math, since I work on subscription billing.

Rory Alsop

Kids and wife slept. We left at 3 this morning

Simon

dayum

Rory Alsop

12:47 PM

KatFest will have about 11 kids and about 30 adults

AviD

@RoryAlsop d'awwww

Rory Alsop

So Hamish is earning his babysitting pay - the kids have the house next for

Rоry McCune

@RoryAlsop .. that's one way around the problem I guess... I'd forgotten about your sleep habits, must be useful for this kind of thing

Rory Alsop

S/for/door

AviD

@CodesInChaos naw, its simple. You wait date + 3 before calling, if its the first one.

Rory Alsop

12:48 PM

And sine will sleep in a big tent in the garden

CodesInChaos

@RоryMcCune Of course date math is easy compared to floating point math.

AviD

@RоryMcCune well, @JonSkeet is kinda the expert on date math, and he says its damn hard.

Rory Alsop

@RоryMcCune I slept from midnight to 2. Is fine.

AviD

but mostly cuz us humans suck at defining dates.

Martin Rory Ingesen

@RoryAlsop ah, 26 hours of sleep then!

Simon

12:49 PM

@RoryAlsop Your kid's name is a pure waveform?

2

AviD

@CodesInChaos wow. That sounds kinda mundane for a cryptowizard like yourself.

CodesInChaos

I managed to crash our recurring worker at the last DST switch because I overlooked a special case.

Rory Alsop

Isn't date math: you+me=something special

2

CodesInChaos

At least I don't live in israel, where they only decide when the DST switch is a few days before it happens.

AviD

@CodesInChaos heh. Actually not the case anymore, a few years ago they did pass a law to set the dates permanently.

Rory Alsop

12:50 PM

@Simon - hahahaha, autocomplete can be wonderful

Simon

@RoryAlsop :p

AviD

However, one of the ways (I think getting off DST?) is based on the Hebrew calendar, not the Gregorian. So, still complicated.

CodesInChaos

@AviD Don't be afraid, that will change once the current government party loses an election.

AviD

@CodesInChaos I dont think so. Everyone is equally dissatisfied with the current solution, which is about the best you can hope for in the Middle East.

CodesInChaos

Regularity is boring.

AviD

12:52 PM

it took years to reach an agreement.

CodesInChaos

I'm for abolishing the whole thing.

AviD

but yeah, that whole "lets vote on switching clocks 2 days from now!" thing was totally crazy.

@CodesInChaos so are most logical people.

timezones need a good rejiggering, too.

Simon

No they don't the canonical one is Eastern, stick with it and don't bother with the others.

AviD

ah okay. So I wake up at midnight, and go to sleep 8pm.

Rоry McCune

@AviD everyone adopts the one true time and we're sorted

Simon

12:56 PM

Voilà.

Rоry McCune

@AviD yeah "midnight" and "8pm" are just words

AviD

@RоryMcCune so's your face

Simon

wat

TildalWave

@AviD it is, but nobody there asked about AWS so why even bother mentioning it?

Rоry McCune

AviD

12:58 PM

@TildalWave true, but not spam.

Scrubs - "So's Your Face"

►

TildalWave

@AviD I didn't call it like that, I used a lot more colorful term. :P

AviD

Scrubs - Turk's "In Your Face" dance

►

@RоryMcCune huh. Prior art found.

So's your face Willow Buffy

►

Simon

1:21 PM

I remember the first time I killed the chat.

Martin Rory Ingesen

Killed a cat?

Dude wtf

oh! the chat.. nvm then.

AviD

@MartinRoryIngesen that's worse, almost

Martin Rory Ingesen

@AviD It's Simon after all. You never know!

Isn't that right @Simon?

Simon

Shush.

AviD

well, he IS french candaian, after all - so he probably ate the cat, too.

etherealflux

1:25 PM

Good morning, eagles, and good afternoon GODLESS COMMUNISTS

TildalWave

LOL

good afternoon then :)

etherealflux

How's it going UNAMERICAN FREEDOM HATER? I'm just doing some code review and NOT HATING FREEDOM and stuff

TildalWave

dude it's not my fault that your time zone sucks

I nearly finished my work for the day and you just woke up you lazy bastard! :)

etherealflux

Indiana is weird

we have our own time zone listing, but it's just eastern time

something to do with daylight savings time

TildalWave

have you saved much daylight?

AviD

1:30 PM

@TildalWave hey man, I'm already half way through my weekend.

Simon

lulz

silly egyptians

AviD

Did you know in Europe they take August off? OFF.

Simon

@AviD That can't be right.

AviD

I knew that would be too subtle for you.

etherealflux

@AviD Where do they keep it?

AviD

1:32 PM

hang on....

etherealflux

I can't find anywhere to put the weekend

AviD

ah! here it is.

Cadillac ELR Coupe 2014 Commercial

►

OFF.

there ya go, now THATs how you kill the chat properly. Nothing left to be said.

Just take the rest of the month off. OFF.

Simon

@AviD AND I WAS SUPPOSED TO GET THAT REFERENCE?

AviD

@Simon YES

Simon

IT'S A COMMERCIAL YOU GOD DAMN SILLY DONUTELY MONG

AviD

1:37 PM

IT WENT VIRAL

Simon

SO DID 84927394837423894723984723894723498237482 OTHER VIDEOS

etherealflux

especially the one with the funny man and the hat

TildalWave

@Simon 84927394837423894723984723894723498237796

@AviD I never saw it again, I must be immune to this virus

We also don't take the whole August off and we're in Europe. And no sane country in Europe does that, because we're all trying to avoid all the Germans, Dutch and Italian tin can tourism. So what Europe as a country is this silly American talking about?

CodesInChaos

@etherealflux Within the tz database, a time zone is any national region where local clocks have all agreed since 1970

etherealflux

@CodesInChaos So N clocks that agree result in 2^N timezones? Sounds dangerous

CodesInChaos

1:46 PM

@etherealflux wat

etherealflux

@CodesInChaos would actually be slightly lower..but if I have three clocks, then clocks A and B form a timezone, as do B and C, as do A and C, as do A, B, and C

so 2^(N-1)

"What time zone are you in?"

"Buffer overflow"

CodesInChaos

@etherealflux I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a statement.

etherealflux

@CodesInChaos I'm being overly pedantic for comedic effect. I'll be here all week, folks!

please don't throw donuts at me

CodesInChaos

I prefer the Kalina approach -- fire > doughnuts.

etherealflux

2:04 PM

the interface on a mobile app I use frequently changed

time to riot

Martin Rory Ingesen

@etherealflux Just like those who complain about facebook redesigns?

etherealflux

@MartinRoryIngesen The design does more with less space and is much more responsive

---L

I'm a poor student. Can't afford those fancy pitchforks

Martin Rory Ingesen

But.. who removed my pitchfork then?! Here have another

CodesInChaos

Nuke 'em.

Martin Rory Ingesen

--E

etherealflux

2:09 PM

I'm familiar with the many types of pitchfork

we get riots on r/dota2 daily

Martin Rory Ingesen

@etherealflux Eww.. the interface is BETTER? D: --E

Rito pls?

Wops. Wrong company.

volvo, that's it.

etherealflux

volvo pls give diretide

icefraud

AviD

2:33 PM

@TildalWave Europe IS a country, doncha know?

Can she be THAT stupid?

►

Simon

Tsk, what else would it be, a continent?

pls

Iszi

@AviD Damn. How high is she?

AviD

@Iszi about a meter sixty, I think.

Simon

Oh and the sexist jokes.

This video has it all.

AviD

yeah, that.

Iszi

2:37 PM

@Simon Whaddya want from the guy who invented "You might be a redneck."?

AviD

One woman is stupid, so it must be the whole gender.

@Iszi hey cmon, not the same.

The redneck stuff is true.

Iszi

@AviD And the woman stuff ain't? You are married, right?

AviD

@Iszi pls

Simon

Hahaha.

AviD

SO not true - for most values of "women"

etherealflux

2:39 PM

but strings are immutable

Iszi

GUYS, GUYS, GUYS!!!! HOW IS THIS NOT ON THE STARWALL YET?!?!

4

Q: A design update is coming!

Most of the changes won’t be visible; these tweaks go along with recent updates that were made to Stack Overflow: We are moving the site's CSS to a newly refactored LESS system, so that it's easier for us to fix SE network CSS bugs globally and launch new features in the future. We are updating...

discussion featured design

AviD

we prefer to keep oneboxing it here instead of starring it.

etherealflux

don't start trying to get things starred like that

Simon

@Iszi I don't star updates that unlock updates.

AviD

@Simon what about updates that star updates that unlock updates?

Simon

2:42 PM

@AviD NO

etherealflux

EJECT

Iszi

@AviD See, I knew someone would have caught this before me. So WTF dudes?

AviD

4 hours ago, by AviD

0

Q: A design update is coming!

Most of the changes won’t be visible; these tweaks go along with recent updates that were made to Stack Overflow: We are moving the site's CSS to a newly refactored LESS system, so that it's easier for us to fix SE network CSS bugs globally and launch new features in the future. We are updating...

discussion featured design

2 hours ago, by Simon

3

Q: A design update is coming!

Most of the changes won’t be visible; these tweaks go along with recent updates that were made to Stack Overflow: We are moving the site's CSS to a newly refactored LESS system, so that it's easier for us to fix SE network CSS bugs globally and launch new features in the future. We are updating...

discussion featured design

TildalWave

@Iszi I just read the all capital words and it's all there

AviD

I hope in 2 hours somebody links it here again, so we can link him these and @Iszi's link.

Iszi

2:43 PM

@TildalWave Hm?

TildalWave

CSS LESS SE CSS SVG LOT

AviD

@TildalWave MONGODB