I thought @voretaq7 and myself were the Toxic Twins, both fighting it out for #1 spot.

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=boobs&user=&room=127

You were just AA short season. We were the big leagues. =)

I can see why people are fed up about the boobs thing

My name isn't changing

@MDMarra It takes more than just a few minutes. I changed my name and it took days for it to catch up in chat.

@WesleyDavid That pinged me

@MarkM: hahahaha look at the top one

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=fuck&user=&room=127

I've changed my SF name twice, actually. From "Nonapeptide" to "Wesley Nonapeptide" to "WesleyDavid"

lol

@MDMarra Yeah, it'll ping you with the right name, but it won't display it for a day or three.

oh shit, its way overdue to head home.. I'm in trouble to say it midly

night guys.. dont get into more arguments

@pauska see ya

@pauska Laters

In trouble with whom?

@MDMarra I think the consensus is tone things down a bit & try not to be "too offensive"

we still need to figure out what our community standard for that is though.

@voretaq7 I think sexism is a line... but just simple dictionary words aren't even close.

Certainly racism is a line obviously. I think there was a line flagged that said something about Jews?

I don't find simple words offensive. I find behaving in a way likely to offend others to be offensive. But that's just me.

But calling @pauska "fucking Norwegian" is all in good humor I think. =)

That's nationalism though.

Post links to pictures of christmas ornaments depicting sex acts - hmm - kinda iffy.

That "I saw Daddy Kissing Santa Claus" video made me bust a gut. :D

@WesleyDavid racism and sexism are of course over the line

@voretaq7 ...so boobs are out then.

but is posting "boobs" sexism?

@voretaq7 In and of itself, no. But the quantity and context that we pursue it would seem to be, yeah.

Personally I think we should tone down the boobs to be more welcoming to the extremely small minority of female sysadmins that might stumble in here.

@voretaq7 I'd star that, but, well... you know... lolcats.

@WesleyDavid I agree - it amuses us, and we take it to excess

Just take a gander at the vote to close star wall right now

Am I going to be the guy that says "no moar boobs EVAR!" ? No.

@voretaq7 If it were a female dominated room / industry, and they had a balls meme going on what would that feel like?

I'd be all "haw haw" - but after months of it, it'd get to "STFU" levels.

Then again, women don't exactly objectify balls, so I admit that's a terrible analogy...

@WesleyDavid honestly? IDK. I think it wouldn't bother me too much, but I hang out with women a lot and hear them go on about all manner of things

BUT someone else might be offended by it

also we apparently have a flag according to the chat-o-matic <?>

@voretaq7 See, that's just it. I am completely hardened to offenses of any kind. I wouldn't have nary a worry about that - but I think it would just get grating if any meme was beaten to death that much, much less one about body parts.

@voretaq7 Maybe I can't see flags after all? I see a blue notification, but when I click it, it says there are none to see.

@WesleyDavid agreed.

Where are you seeing your flag notification?

@WesleyDavid yeah that's what I'm getting too

agreed

I don't have one over my gravatar, but it's on chat.stackexchange.com

maybe they flagged the whole room as being offensive to the network's delicate sensibilities :-/

However, Iain did specifically mention that it was a "sewer where swearing is becoming the norm rather than the exception" So I suppose profanity is part of the issue.

In all seriousness though the antics in here don't bother me - I have no problem toning down some of them (boobs meme being the biggest one), but I certainly don't want to see us lose all of them.

I'll have to defer to others, because I have no qualms about any words, in just about any quantity - and if I do, I haven't reached that limit yet in here.

With rare exceptions (bursts of profanity) I don't think we're that profane. but again, that's me

Is it safe to talk again?

@voretaq7 Really, the use of it is usually very comedic and endearing. E.g. "Fucking Norwegian" and "FUCK THE FUCK OFF YOU FUCKING FUCK!!" (One of my favorite lines)

and as everyone has said that's part of sysadmin culture. You get a bunch of sysadmins in a room with no clients around, we curse and rant about our crappy clients and the things we'd like to do to them with various power tools.

@84104 we're going to use ASL for a while, just to be cautious :-)

@voretaq7 And mysterious ground faults.

@voretaq7 Flagged for obscene gesture.

@voretaq7 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asl ?

@WesleyDavid 'twasn't mysterious. Some halfwit connected the floor to PDU ground instead of earth.

@84104 ayup

It's good that I know what the asl for dealing with printers is.

in all seriousness though, @Iain is pretty much ServerFault's conscience sitting on our shoulder and stabbing us in the ear when we're edging up to (or over) the line. I happen to agree that we as a community need to take a hard look at ourselves and try to be just a LITTLE less frightening for new people.

(while at the same time again not going to the ned flanders extreme that will have all of us go chat elsewhere and this room become a vast wasteland)

@voretaq7 I'm still one step behind you wondering "What about us is frightening in the first place?" - Although the total vitriol against admittedly bad questions, or some borderline questions is bad.

I myself have kept from bringing up a topic I'm new to in here.

And it's always funny when Person A says "OMGWTFBBQ Why would anyone use this product and if they do they're brain donors!!" and Person B says "I use it." awkward silence

@WesleyDavid that's usually when you discover that QuickBooks has a niche market somewhere :-)

@WesleyDavid Personally I could do with a less softcore porn and seizure educing .gifs .

I think Shane and I had a moment like that. He was demolishing people for using third party defraggers, until I said "I use them... here's why."

@voretaq7, yes... while I don't agree with everything @Iain said, I do agree with some of what he said, and I respect his opinions here totally.

.

YES

MY NAME UPDATED

Everyone refresh your browsers

@MDMarra Flagged for excessive punctuation.

@84104 +1 on the seizure-inducing .gifs

@MDMarra No. I use Safari - Do you know how much memory that will leak you insensitive clod?!

@voretaq7 Sadly, I lurve gif spamming. That's going to hurt to have to cut back on. sobs

@voretaq7 I do too

It's worth it. I see snowmen now.

So much better than the headless corpse I saw at work.

@WesleyDavid I don't mind them occasionally, but we're a culture of one-uppmanship with the memes

@MDMarra I use Lynx. All you people can suck it.

@MDMarra Ooo, headless corpses. I was looking at crime scene photos of famous murders last night. Don't ask...

you post a snowman. @markm posts a snowman with teeth. I animate the snowman so it's chomping stuff. @84104 edits the animation so it's eating users. And now everyone's offended.

Who is @markm?

@MDMarra your evil twin. Here, let me clobber you with this 2x4 and I'll show you :-)

(and apparently it's fixing the @ now)

Excellent

@voretaq7 I'm offended by people being offended.,

Oh, and photoshoppingpong.com bitches.

@WesleyDavid I'm concerned that people are offended and the first we hear of it is a mod-storm in chat rather than letting us work it out on meta -- that's the only problem I have with this whole debacle

@voretaq7 I don't hate users. I just hate every decision they make.

@voretaq7 I know - the fact that it broke out first in meta is the whole reason we flamed out today.

@84104 I hate users.

@WesleyDavid Meta is the right place to raise it I think

My impression was mods came in because of flaggery

and then they found the meta thread

and went through transcripts

@voretaq7 Since it's chat, and chat is something of a distant cousin to the main site, I felt it should have been brought up in a serious way in chat first.

and got ZOMG OFFENDED because we are offensive if you're not from around these parts....

The flag-system is inherrently reactionary. It's nice to get ahead of the curve (/review) but it doesn't always happen.

@WesleyDavid I could get behind that too.

wow, what's the whole lot of circular reasoning about being a different culture and thus not subject to moderation?

@WesleyDavid I just strongly disagree with chat flags being able to be acted upon from people outside of the site that the chat is a part of

Bringing it up on the main site is bringing in eyeballs that aren't accustomed to this little sub-culture / sub-site. I mean, look at John Gardeniers. Apparently he's thoroughly disgusted with us and I didn't even know it. =|

re BTW

@sysadmin1138 The flag system on the sites is good for its purpose. It gets a little sticky with the universal flagging in chat though.

@syneticondj You're not exactly the most popular person in here at the moment. Chat is just starting to cool down, perhaps you might want to lay low?

@MDMarra Yeah, outsiders responding to flags is bad.

@voretaq7 Yeeeah. The kvetching in TC about it mirrored the kvetching in here to a good extent.

@syneticondj not subject to external moderation -- yes. In the words of the FreeBSD commit team, you should shoot your own dogs.

@sysadmin1138 I figured it would have to, particularly with the MSO post on making the flag system tiered

@voretaq7 tiered system?

@MarkM I do not care about my popularity here. I could not write a single line if I did.

@MDMarra make me dig.... grumbles something about running out of stars

@MDMarra Heck, if I get to some significant rep on SU just as a result of migrated posts, I doubt I'd ever really play moderator just because I don't understand them.

@WesleyDavid I'm 10k there. You don't want to.

:)

@voretaq7 okay, but why is there so much of it?

@syneticondj So much of what?

@syneticondj so much of what? Profanity? Memes? Flags?

@MDMarra You're 10K on SuperUser?

shooting the own dogs - It seems to be the point of discussion for hours

all the other ones I understand

@WesleyDavid yup

@syneticondj I think you misunderstand that metaphor

He means let us work out our own problems without mods from other sites popping in at the first hint of a problem.

@syneticondj what @MDMarra said

@markm I understood that. But why does it need to be pointed out dozens of times?

that may not happen every time, but the net result is "outsiders" (and I really don't like using that term) are coming into someone else's space.

@syneticondj What are you even talking about?

No one pointed anything out before this morning

Yeah, its madness. I've never actioned a flag on a room outside of those I'm a reg in, and never would unless it was clearly directly abusive (and I've not seen that happen)

And by noon EST it was a mess of mods before anyone in chat could even form an opinion

@syneticondj Where are these dozens of pointers? We've only had a scant few and those scant few are usually by people that are not connected directly with the site.

It's not like Iain's been complaining for weeks, or even once before.

@MarkM, and perhaps he did want it to be "more on the record" by bringing it up in m.sf. That's also ok, and I'm sure we could come to a solution that made people happy without chasing people away

@Aaron I agree

@syneticondj Then why the fuck do you keep coming back? You just want to see if you've been mentioned. You fucking irritating vain fucktard. I don't care anymore what happens to me for "swearing". You drove Chopper3 away. You're a troll. You provoked me earlier, and you've done it again. Get the fuck out of my fucking world. Don't come back. The community is behind me here, not you.

I just don't understand what @syneticondj means when he's talking about things being pointed out dozens of times

@MarkM I was just reading the transcript and wondering why the past 5 hours circled mainly around this single topic

@syneticondj, "why"? Because "people" could not stop talking about it

@syneticondj Maybe you should read the past 8 or 9 hours

Might be more complete of a picture

indeedy. I feel sorry that Iain's perfectly reasonable post crossed streams with today's crapstorm in chat which to some degree is a separate issue.

Diamonds from other sites kept coming back because of all the flagging

which caused more problems

whether people are regulars here in chat.sf or mods from other SE sites who came in to find out what was going on or bystanders that are trying to figure out what was going on, people wanted to talk about it

@syneticondj I'm not saying we don't want to hear everyone out (which, by the by, is WHY this has been discussed so thoroughly all day today), but if these chats are supposed to reflect the community then the community needs to be given the room to make decisions and set its own direction.

A chat reflecting the community? What a novel idea...

@RobMoir agreed. Iain's post is more about general direction and community standards -- something the SF Community needs to sort out for ourselves.

@syneticondj But what we've been saying is that, with a few exceptions, this chat does reflect the community at large. Only a few protest, and we are willing to listen to those dissenters and capitulate insofar as it doesn't completely crimp everyone's style too far back.

And to be honest, @iain did bring up some good points that most likely some of us were thinking 'You know, we do need to reign it in a bit, we need to work on that individually'

for sure @voretaq7

meta c'mon guys - sarcasm has never been grounds for a flagging before

@Aaron Yeah, about the time @Iain's meta post came in I was wondering if the boob talk and the bizarre images being linked to were getting a bit over the top.

@WesleyDavid Nah, the chat only reflects the opinions of those with enough time on their hands to chat. This is a minority most of the time.

@Aaron based on the meta replies and discussions in here I think most of us have reached that conclusion. And sometimes that's what it takes: A respected member of the community prodding you (like when he prodded us about snarky comments)

@syneticondj Most of us are high rep users

@syneticondj shrug We'll just disagree on that.

time on their hands - you mean people who are invested in the community here?

It's not like we're a handful of people with 100 rep and no clue about how the site operates

@syneticondj @mdmarra rep aside, look at the users who do a lot of the answering. Most of us are in here. Again, because we have the time to invest

Many have been members since the beginning with hundreds of answers

Sure, what would high rep users who invest time in the site know about it, eh?

We have a few (relatively) low-rep users in here.

Hell @Jacob came in here like his first or second day on the site with the bare minimum of rep to talk in chat

The people that have the time to chat are the ones who make the time to chat within their careers because we feel it enriches us professionally, and likely personally too. I just downright like the people here - even though I don't really know any of them terribly personally.

It is not about the number of high rep users in here. It is about the number of active users here compared to the number of total users contributing to the site.

regardless of rep, people who are here are people who want to be part of the SF community. And they're welcome to join

@voretaq7 I like you, man. sniff

He's also been a somewhat active user (less so with school and actual jobbage now), and I think he has a good feel for SF's culture.

@WesleyDavid cats headbutt to show affection.... ImJustSayin

@syneticondj That's a small percentage on ANY StackExchange site.

@syneticondj Perhaps we're veering off into the realm of statistical analysis here because I think this chat room is a accurate sampling of the site as a whole. Those who have high rep are serious, professional SysAdmins who are likely entrenched in this culture. Those who have low rep may be as well, or they may just be grazers. Regardless, the ratio of active ServerFault users to active chat users seems completely irrelevant.

We like @jacob. Jacob can stay.

@WesleyDavid: or people like me, who don't have much to offer, unfortunately, but use SF as a knowledge bank ;p

@JourneymanGeek Lurkers are always encouraged :)

I'm looking at you @shads0

@JourneymanGeek Yes, and we love you and want you here. =)

@JourneymanGeek don't listen to @MDMarra/@MarkM, he's drunk and doesn't even know who he is. Lurking has a $3.95/minute charge. We'll add it to your phone bill :-)

@voretaq7 absolutely. The community handling things themselves is always a good thing. less work for me! q:

@RebeccaChernoff GAHHH YOU CAME OUT OF NOWHERE AND SCARED ME!!!

@RebeccaChernoff inherent laziness... you sure you're not a sysadmin?

You're like the Candy Man.

@MDMarra: Honestly? I have an interest, bit very little experience or knowledge. I'd contrast my rep here (just a tad under 700), with SU (where i'm something like.. almost 25K rep)

Say her name five times in a mirror and she's right behind you - with an ice pick.

@voretaq7 dev. y'all can keep the silly hardware. I stick to software.

@WesleyDavid The candy man can because he does it with a smile

@RebeccaChernoff: hardware is more fun ;p

@JourneymanGeek We like sharing our knowledge

unless its failing

@voretaq7 @MarkM I can't say that I would second Iain's complaint (I am not frequently in here and I do not care much about chat), but apparently this is what all the fuzz is about. Chat only represents the chatty ones.

Just ask @voretaq7 about the differences between BSD and Linux

make sure to clear your calendar though

@JourneymanGeek disagree!

@RebeccaChernoff: You can literally beat it into working sometimes ;p

@syneticondj Yes, but who do the chatty ones represent? We represent the site at large. Or at least, a large sampling of the active users.

@JourneymanGeek Ah yes, hardware percussion therapy.

Let me write code and I can make a lot of things happen. (:

I prefer to call it percussive maintainance

occationally you can do it with users to... either through cranial percussive maintenance, or riverine migratory piscine percussive maintainance

@RebeccaChernoff Okay, but I expect my flying unicorn after the holidays.

@JourneymanGeek Most of the technical talk in here is just chatter anyway

@84104 with such a short timeline she may just put a horn on Nyancat.

@WesleyDavid I could argue with you about the "large" part, it does not feel like it. But I have to get out now. Good night eveyone.

@84104 (:

(AKA LARTing and Trouting)

@voretaq7 This is acceptable.

@syneticondj Laters!

Good riddance

It has bonus rainbows.

@mdmarra +1 ;-)

@MDMarra: I donno, that's partially cause of the culture of the place. and what technical stuff that does happen is more interesting than proper site stuff sometimes

@syneticondj I would be interested in seeing the stats on most active users versus users in chat. I wonder if I can pull that out of the data-explorer soup

YAY! He's Gone!

PARTY!

heh

@mdmarra @RobMoir He's allowed to express an opinion - I think he's misguided personally, but that's me.

The world is safe again.

Someone, quickly set a +b

Oh wait. This still isn't IRC.

@JourneymanGeek well feel free to chime in or ask for details or whatever if something interests you

@TomOConnor never safe. Have you learned nothing from Batman?

Oh, i do ;p

The only way to learn is to speak up :)

@voretaq7 oh he's entitled to his opinion. What I dislike was his badgering of mods this morning

Honestly I wish @syneticondj would weigh in with a carefully-composed, thoughtful mSF piece.

@TomOConnor: See, that is whats wrong with SE chat. Its not irc ;p

@voretaq7 I wish he'd fuck off, and never darken this gateway again.

@RobMoir That pisses me off. Particularly since it looks like @Chopper3 either resigned or intends to.

Many of us do training at our jobs and we'd rather have a newer admin come in with a sound understanding of fundamentals rather than someone that kinda figured it out on their own but never asked anything

@JourneymanGeek Damn it, out of stars.

@WesleyDavid I'd star that but... well - yeah.

@RobMoir Night Mr. Ex MVP

@WesleyDavid flagged for copyright violation :P

(full disclosure...did not make that)

@MDMarra: Is that even possible? I'm decent with computers, but i find sometimes there's stuff thats locked in a metaphorical filing cabinet in a toilet with a broken bulb, with a beware of leopard sign, at the bottom of the stairs.

@RebeccaChernoff I... um.... what am I looking at?

@wesleydavid you're just jealous ;-)

@RebeccaChernoff Lacks flying. Is video. To the next iteration!

@JourneymanGeek There's no magic with computers, just stuff that you don't understand yet

@voretaq7 that's from balpha, he did unicornify, and then he made them move. (:

How do you know how many stars you have left? o.O

@MDMarra: magic, no. But you can't get skills in a vacuum

@RebeccaChernoff I'm... disturbed.... yet strangely I can't look away....

@84104 they're running on air, it's practically the same thing.

@JourneymanGeek This is also true

@TomOConnor You go to star something, and the notifier bar comes down and says "NO STARS FOR YOU! COME BACK $_TIME_PERIOD"

I learned a lot by having a bunch of virtual box VMs on my PC when I was new

I know for a fact that just by being around people who do this sort of thing and listening you learn a lot ;p

Today summarised: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

@JourneymanGeek Oh, certainly. I was just saying that you shouldn't be shy about piping in and asking about stuff if something piques your interest.

and things that are not in books - I've been absorbing information off my proper IT professional classmates like a sponge

XD

Good night. Let's hope the tyrant doesn't return for more.

agreed. I'm saying anyone who does not do so is an idiot

Yep

OK, I'mma go get food because it's an hour after go-home time here and I'm starting to look at those unicorns like a snack.

I'm home and the fiancee just put a coupon in front of me for a large cheese pizza, 12 wings, and a 2 liter

Suck it, @voretaq7

and I'll even close my browser so I get everyone's new names tomorrow morning :-)