TRPG General Chat

Sorcerers are really just wizards with an attitude problem

eimyr

the 12th is secret

@BlueMoon93 It's funny because they list all 12 classes right after that paragraph.

@LegendaryDude I was going to say that Warlocks are just Clerics serving a false god, but that works too ;)

1:15 PM

@LegendaryDude thanks for finding it

@Adam funny thing is, I am currently playing a cleric with a custom archetype that allows me to serve false gods :P

And the first "criticism" I got for that (not from my table, from others) was exactly that. "Just play a Warlock, it's exactly what you want"

Well, first of all, who are they to say what you want. But also, the classes are thematically distinct enough that it could warrant creating something yourself.

At least in the old days, gods needed worshipers to maintain their godhood. I could imagine somebody who was trying to gain divinity would choose clerics to bolster their following.

Also, there is a huge gap between how a warlock gains their power and how a cleric gains their power.

Warlocks have made a pact, for better or for worse. They are obligated to serve their patron to some degree, and their powers are a benefit of that pact. There may also be... drawbacks. Clerics have freely chosen to worship their deity, and aren't obligated to serve.

1:32 PM

Yea, that's what I thought, too. The image in my mind was basically "A human follower of a demon (a really strong one, as it needs comparable power to gods) who tries to convert others"

Which is not at all what a Warlock is, in my opinion :D

Even if your idea wasn't so fleshed out, there are only two official "evil" archetypes I think. Just the Oathbreaker and Death domain. If the death domain doesn't fit, and you want a cleric who serves some dark power, you really don't have a lot of options

@doppelgreener I've got exactly zero experience with D&D and translations, so can't comment. (I feel like I once accidentally picked up a Cyberpunk supplement in German, but that may just be a figment of memory?)

@nitsua60 well, if it was shadowrun 5 stuff, the quality would be better than in the english version at least :P

@Adam exactly. And this is an evil campaign - And I love clerics. So, the course was clear from the beginning. :D

@LyndonWhite That answer is soooo much better than "try meetup.com". In fact, it sorta saves the question in my mind.

mornin

1:49 PM

Good Morning!

@Adam how goes it?

@Shalvenay cough ranger cough. Though I suppose it's not so much the class that needs replacement as it is the concept. IMO.

@DForck42 It goes. How goes things with you?

I've never played a ranger, but when I read through it, it just seemed like a disproportionate number of their features are very campaign/DM dependant

@Patta I suppose it might have been... we're talking thirty years ago, give or take?

@Adam They're the awesomest NPC ever designed.

Well, it isn't Shadowrun 5 then :D

I have some older shadowrun books in german, but can't speak of the english ones. I only have english ones for Shadowrun 5, and they get worse with every book...

@nitsua60 exactly what I was thinking :D

1:53 PM

@Adam ankle's still hurting :/

@DForck42 That sucks! How did you hurt it?

@nitsua60 That really bites when you want to use them as a PC though :p

@Patta The English SR books are terrible. My friend and I both have the core book, and there are literally pages missing from his.

@Adam This is why I tend to eschew all these newfangled classes and try to dial things down to basics. "Ranger" perfectly well modeled by multiclassing DEX-fighter and druid, IMO. Even better: DEX-fighter and nature cleric.

@Adam shrugs

@nitsua60 What is newfangled about the ranger? It's been around since at least AD&D 2e, no?

1:58 PM

A Ftr8/Cl2 isn't quite as good at fightering as a Ftr10 but can still do a lot (esp. DEX-based), and can throw some nature-based magic in there.

@nitsua60 yeah, ranger just feels like the one MEH class in 5e

@LegendaryDude Ayup.

I've read through it, and nothing about it makes me excited to play one

I was trying to describe to some of the guys I play with that a fighter can use Dexterity pretty effectively, and they all kind of just looked at me like "what?"

Pump WIS as a secondary stat and take the right background, how's that not a ranger?

1:59 PM

5e ranger needs to have more stuff to do that isn't setting-dependent.

And the revised ranger tried to do that but still made it feel underwhelming.

@Adam "I'll take the benefits of two stats but only have to rely on one, please."

I think the ranger should be more like the Paladin. Paladin is to cleric as ranger (should be) to druid.

@LegendaryDude Paladins are just Ftr1/ClX =)

@LegendaryDude rangers don't get a lot of spells, and most of them kinda suck from what I remember seeing

The challenge is that a lot of the classic ranger-esque skills are setting dependent. So, I can see why it's hard to come up with good non-combat features for a ranger.

2:01 PM

@DForck42 They get the same number of slots as paladin.

@LegendaryDude Ohh, I never heard that one before. The core rules where OK for me, but every single german book was better than it's english equivalent

@Adam You've mentioned setting-dependence a few times, and while I don't necessarily disagree, I wonder what you're thinking of....

@LegendaryDude I like this.

@Adam That was the first thing I tried in 5e. Dex-Fighter/Shwashbuckler Type

@Adam Yeah. The ranger needs to either be more of a Warden type character, or it needs to be way more spiritually focused and in tune with nature.

2:02 PM

If I had the body for it & was into LARP, that would be my larp character, too :D

Lyndon White

@nitsua60 thanks.

@Patta Yeah. We were trying to make characters together as a test run (boy that took us only 4 hours between two people with two books...). When he asked me where something was in the book, I flipped to it in mine, told him the page number, and when he went to the same page it was completely different.

@nitsua60 When I think of "ranger" I think the stereotypical tracker. Lives out in the woods, really good survivalist/hunter, maybe a little bit of a guide in there. The type of skills that that entails (tracking, foraging for food, setting up camp, not getting lost, etc.) are, in my games at least, either hand-waved away or not very useful when it comes to a good old fashioned dungeon crawl

@LegendaryDude OK, that seems to be a really special case, at least from what I heard on the pegasus forums :D

@LegendaryDude yeah, I meant my complaint to be that the spells that they do get don't wow me for the number of spell slots they have

2:04 PM

@DForck42 Absolutely. Hunter's mark is great, but it's basically a spell-tax. Why not just make it a class feature?

@LegendaryDude But, for a test run: Just use the pre made chars. There is enough of them (at least now, over several books) and while some are not 100% rules-legal, they work well :D

@Patta I meant we were making the characters as a test run. We haven't attempted to play because he moved to Thailand shortly after we made our chars.

@Adam That's what I think of, too. Awesome NPC to have along =)

and even at level 7, the animal companions are a bit too squishy to use effectively in combat (UA ranger)

@DForck42 It might be interesting if they had a second-track use of their unimpressive slots, the same way a paladin has with smites?

doppelgreener

2:07 PM

@nitsua60 thank you for the sheepfix on my meta answer :)

@doppelgreener I just couldn't resist =)

doppelgreener

@nitsua60 it's good!

I flip-flopped a few times between italicizing it or just putting a [sic] after =)

@nitsua60 Yes it is. I don't disagree with that. But I don't think it translates effectively into a PC, at least not in enough circumstances that you can warrant allowing it for every campaign

@nitsua60 I think it would be better if they just rolled some of their spells into class features, and made better spells. Hunter's mark and ensnaring strike should be class features.

2:09 PM

@LegendaryDude Ah alright. The word "Run" when talking about shadowrun always equals the ingame definition for me :D

@nitsua60 yeah

@LegendaryDude that too

@Patta Oh yeah, hah, didn't consider the double entendre there.

something like "hunters points: number equal to ranger main stat point: expend one to get one of these effects. return after a long rest" similar to how a bard's inspiration dice work

or fighter's die works

@DForck42 Yes, plus special ranger abilities that trigger off slots a la warlock invocations and/or paladin smites

@LegendaryDude k, I'm feeling like we should just start an official unofficial rpg.se ranger class

BlueMoon93

2:12 PM

+

Make it a community post

top the morn!

BlueMoon93

howdy

@DForck42 except that at 5th level the bardic inspiration die are refreshed on a SR

@NautArch yup

g2g, meeting

2:28 PM

My manager isn't in, so I can't quit :\

Clever tactic

@Patta i see you mentioned Savage Worlds above...a buddy of mine is trying to set up a group for that. made a couple of characters for it and looks pretty amazing.

@SPavel that stinks. take the day yourself, then :)

Haha, I'm trying to find out if he'll be in later

or just take a big ole dump on his desk. that'll send the message.

I went before I came, so to speak

2:41 PM

@NautArch Yea. Most fun I had with my onliny group over the last 4 or 5 years (with roughly the same number of different games beeing played)) was with Savage Worlds, in a custom setting with the premise "What if the vatikan would start to conquer the world for christianity and start to turn people into religious zombies while the old gods of rome, greek, the norse, egypt and so on say 'Na, we don't like that' and start to help build resistance cells against christianity"

it was... a total wreck of a setting, but hey. It worked really really well.

@Patta the combat seems very over the top. i was built a very combat-focused burster and then more of a well-rounded ley-line walker. Debating on which to play and also whether or not to make the burster build for more attacks (already getting crazy damage) or if it's overkill. I'm not going to look at the beastiary or any monster manual type stuff because I want it to be a surprise.

Yea, you can become extremely strong. One of my players actually retired a character because he became to strong. He was able to attack twice on his turn, then once on each character who comes into close combat with him + once whenever someone would miss him in combat

it was horrible :D

And no, I could not shoot him with guns. Too much constitution

VtC, shopping question

But if no one overdoes it (also, this was with a relatively high amount of xp), combat works great

the build I created was a simvan burster that would make three attack actions (fiery aura/smite/flamebolt at -2, chainsword at -2 and another chainsword at -4). but not sure if those minuses are a smart idea.

this is a starting 0 level character.

2:52 PM

what system where you using (and what edition of Savagae Worlds?)

Tomorrow Legion for savage worlds

and the savage worlds deluxe

parsing two handbooks also was a pain, but i think i get it now.

Today in Great Teachers Admit Mistakes: man gets C on paper about amending US Constitution, gets US Constitution amended, teacher changes grade to A thirty-plus years later.

@NautArch ok, never heard of that setting. And I only know the gentleman's edition (in the german version) :D

@Patta ah...rats.

@nitsua60 that's awesome

@NautArch That blog often makes me feel better about modern life. It celebrates the small victories....

3:08 PM

@nitsua60 modern life is depressing the crap out of me. I've gotten off facebook which has helped immensely.

also why i'm spending as much time in possible in video games, books, RPGs, and with my family. :D

There you go. Find your contentment.

@NautArch This, I hear this a lot. I don't understand it (this isn't a criticism of you).

and i hope to bring most of those things together when my kids are old enough for them.

@NautArch how old?

@LegendaryDude the facebook thing? or the modern life depressing thing?

3:09 PM

The FB thing

@nitsua60 5 and 3.

Modern life is hell. ;)

I just hear a lot of people complain about FB and how its so depressing

@LegendaryDude My issue with FB is the stream of 'news' and the stream of posts about news followed by comments. I'm a sucker for comments and for getting involved. It just wasn't healthy for me.

There are only two things that happen on facebook, people revealing the best possible parts of their life, and people spreading around news about how terrible everything is.

@NautArch Mine, at 7, 5, and 3, enjoyed a little RP-game that a friend of @eimyr's made up. Wanna hear it?

3:10 PM

Also, memes

Oh, yes. I've meticulously curated my FB feed so that people who continuously post depressing garbage just don't show up there.

i have zero issue with the best parts of life being shared. It's the news about terrible things.

@nitsua60 oooh, yes!

my wife has expressed interest (she used to be an actor) and I've been tempting her with roleplaying.

(This'll be some mashup of the original and the edits I've made, and I'm not sure where the lines lie.)

my son found my dice and started using d20s to play chutes and ladders.

I mostly just see things happening in my friends' lives and the things they're doing, which is pretty cool. I'm friends with a lot of musicians and artists so I get to live vicariously through their awesome lives (not that my own life is terrible).

3:12 PM

Most of my friends are 20 somethings with a bone to pick against the man, so my feed has been known to fill up with political statements.

@NautArch Sounds like it'd be a short game of chutes and ladders!

Good for them trying to support a movement that they believe in, but I don't want to talk about politics or movements. It just poisons friendships

@NautArch That's adorable!

@LegendaryDude yeah, it usually is...which isn't a bad thing. He's decent at counting (when he's not tired), but a lot of the time i'm still counting for him.

LITTLE ADVENTURES - playing quick little adventuresome scenes a la Magic Tree House or Backyardigans
Each kid creates a character: name, age, and 4 things they're good at. (Examples to come.)
The 4 skills get ranked from strongest to weakest. Then they get a d12, 10, 8, and 6, respectively.
Players are polled for thematic/setting/plot elements they'd like, and GM starts the narration, with lots of drawing the kids in through questions.
Any time a character needs to surmount an obstacle they explain how they'll use a skill and roll the skill's die. 4+ is an unqualified success, 1-3 is a comp…

2

What happens when they are out of skills?

3:16 PM

@NautArch Are you sure you want to discuss that in public? :P (And yea, I'm sorry, but that's exactly my kind of humor these days :P)

So, for example, my kids skills are {fire, making things of Legos, bringing characters from stories to life, transmutation}, {flying, dancing, drawing, driving}, and {driving, napping, singing, jumping}

@SPavel You've already resolved the scene by then. Or it's To Be Continued!

(I've never exhausted the 12 skills of my three kids in under an hour, and they've not really the interest in going longer than that.)

Ah, that makes sense

I bet the kids like the colorful dice

The one continuation we've played we kept the "spent" status of skills running from one session to the next, which made the very last skill roll super-suspenseful =)

Example, continued: a recent scene involved Giants, pirates, and the Swiss Alps. The problem at hand: mommy's phone is missing.

Anne Aunyme

so is there a possibility of failure?

Failure is more complication than not-progressing.

3:19 PM

My character's name is Donald, he's 70 years young, and his skills are: d12 - being the best, d10 - making deals, d8 - huge hands, d6 - being the most humble

@AnneAunyme My 4 y-o recently used her "napping" skill on a tiger that was guarding an emperor's garden. She rolled a 2. So it fell asleep. In front of the gate.

Anne Aunyme

@SPavel let's see how he recovers his mom's phone!

Obviously, the next step is to cuddle up with the tiger, they're huge and soft and warm

I would 100% go for it

@AnneAunyme Let me tell you about Donald's mom. She's just the best, you know, and she has the greatest phones. That's what everyone - everyone talks about her phones, that's what they say. The best calling. Longest distance.

IME the scenes tend to the absurdist, because the kids will just bring anything in. It's a good brain-stretch for me, personally.

"I sneak attack the book." "You can't, books don't have discernible anatomy." "It's got a spine, hasn't it?"

3

3:23 PM

We do an index card as their "character sheet": it's just got their name, age, 4 skills, and a drawing.

definitely going to talk to my wife about trying this :)

I haven't thought about any sort of transformation/growth (not really "advancement") mechanism--it hasn't seemed necessary yet.

they could get another skill or move a skill up

like in savage worlds

@NautArch I'd link you the original document (about 2-3 pp., IIRC) but I can't remember the working title and so can't find the pdf. ("Little Adventures" is my name for it.) If you ping @eimyr they might be able to put it in your hands.

coolio, grazie!

3:31 PM

prego

4:19 PM

I is back

@SPavel gamers!!!

Welcome back!