TRPG General Chat

11:09 AM

I agree

as hard to believe/understand as it may be, books were my first friends

burning books is not an acceptable practice in my opinion, though to be fair, anyone can do with their own property as they choose

it seems inconsiderate to me, but some people would certainly be able to argue that they have the right to do that sort of thing as long as the books in question are their property.

kviiri

I'm not really arguing against other people's right to burn [their own] books. I just feel very uncomfortable doing it myself.

trogdor

same

I would never do that

kviiri

RPG GENERAL CHAT - we like books here!

3

trogdor

even books I didn't personally like get sent or sold to someone

and books I did like also do, unless I decide I would rather keep them

in any case, we have as much a right to peacefully protest book burning as people have to burn books

kviiri

:)

trogdor

11:20 AM

I just don't see the point of it unless you just hated said book or what it stood for

kviiri

I wouldn't burn even Mein Kampf if I had a copy.

trogdor

yeah, if anything it could be considered historical

even if you disagree with everything written in it

but as far as 4e, I realize some people hated/hate that edition

I didn't, but as I understand it some people did

kviiri

11:34 AM

I understand why people dislike it.

I don't see any reason to be very sentimental about it, and I doubt most people really are... things just come out differently online than in person.

trogdor

this is true

personally, I don't see much reason to go back to 4e myself, especially considering that BESW is sick of it

most of my RPG nights are run by him, and in any case, I have found a lot of satisfaction in a ton of much simpler systems

kviiri

Yeah, I dislike the bookkeeping inherent in the system. Simplicity rocks <3

trogdor

I personally liked character creation in 4e a lot, but I am actually very sick of how long encounters took in it, and how inflexible the system was

I too am quite fond of simplistic systems because they generally lack these defects

though I have to admit that I sometimes miss having crunchy mechanics too

kviiri

11:53 AM

As for character creation, I'm not particularly fond of the races presented by the game. Maybe they're a bit too clichéd for my taste...

I'd kinda like to see races more as a social mechanic, than an optimization feature.

trogdor

yeah

I wasn't entirely fond of the fact that if I wanted to make a race class combo, that certain ones would basically punish me in terms of mechanics

I think part of the reason I liked 4e was because most of my tabletop RPG experience was D&D

and 4e was my personal favorite of the D&D systems

kviiri

I always tend to go human anyway (and that, too, is often a punishment). That way I can roleplay a personality without having to worry about a racial stereotype.

wax eagle

12:23 PM

@trogdor there was one book I considered burning, but I got an A in that class so I didn't care enough (several of my class mates did try to burn it though). That was our PE book from college...wasn't useful, wasn't resellable and wasn't worth the paper it was printed on

trogdor

ah,.. PE

yeah, that is not a subject I think really should be written out

wax eagle

@trogdor yeah...didn't help that the book was something the instructor himself had written

trogdor

burning it isn't so much what I would do as try to recycle the paper though

lol

that is just wrong

wax eagle

@trogdor yeah, I'm not sure what I did with it tbh

trogdor

mm

wax eagle

12:26 PM

I had a couple of classes in college where the instructor had written the book or had one of his books as an auxillary text....but only the one class where the teacher had written the book, and required you purchase it new because worksheets

trogdor

that is pretty bad

even one is more than there should have been

wax eagle

@trogdor agreed.

trogdor

it's basically extortion of your grades

wax eagle

@trogdor more or less. That class was tbh an easy A. You just had to play ball with him.

which is terrible, but it was nice for my GPA and that was what I cared about at the time

trogdor

yeah

I just think that it smacks of downright predatory behaviour

not the worst kind, but still

wax eagle

12:34 PM

@trogdor it was, and everyone complained about it. I'm not sure if they still use the book, the prof doesn't appear to be at the school anymore.

trogdor

one guess is he got fired for this practice

not the only possibility, but a satisfying one from the sound of it, it seems

lisardggY

I've had professors teaching from their own books, but they really didn't care if we took it out of the library or even photocopied it all. "The university put it out", one told us "and I don't see a cent from it. Copy it all for all I care".

wax eagle

@lisardggY yeah, the other profs who'd written their own book didn't care how you acquired it

@trogdor sadly, unlikely. It's a small school, I'm sure they knew what he was doing there. He'd been involved with the school for ages. My guess is that he moved on.

trogdor

yeah, my beef isn't with professors who write their own books

it's just the idea that one would sell it and require it for his/her class

to make more money off the students

lisardggY

One of my professors had just finished her PhD at Princeton and came back home to teach. She was so exasperated with the terrible selection in our school library that she would ask her Princeton friends to scan whole chapters for us, from books she wanted to teach us from, but weren't available anywhere here.

wax eagle

12:40 PM

Found the book

Joshua Aslan Smith

whud up

I totally was going to take a mythology class for fun and didnt because the prof required the 2nd edition of her own text book vs. the 1st

price spread of like 60 bucks

wax eagle

yikes

Joshua Aslan Smith

I specifically asked in front of the class and she shot me down

wax eagle

my favorite text book story from college was my physics text. The profs were cool, so we got to use the same text for 3 straight semesters. They decided that my class was going to use the old edition, and the new edition would start with the class the next year. Well, since the new edition was out already, the old one was super cheap on amazong ($10 range). Several of us bought on amazon, and sold it back to the bookstore for cash at the end of 2/3 of the semesters of the course

(by the end of hte third they weren't taking it back anymore I don't think)

Joshua Aslan Smith

haha

wax eagle

12:52 PM

it was like a $120 book, so getting half price back from the bookstore was a tidy bit of cash

Joshua Aslan Smith

very nice

Joshua Aslan Smith

1:57 PM

@waxeagle how is Dpad coming along?

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith was in meetings all day yesterday, so no work done

Joshua Aslan Smith

just interested no pressure

someone was askign someone else on FB about how 5e was balanced

and I wanted to be able to show them your work

Its already a terrible conversation because they are a PF player/fan and they were like "whats in it for me" about 5e, and I was like, probably nothing if you are looking for something similar to PF

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith The snapshots are pretty close to correct, so they're plenty easy to show off

I'm actually relatively impressed. It's fairly well balanced

Aaron

Good morning

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm going to move this over to 5e chat for the moment because I'm going to get a bit more nitty gritty

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:07 PM

cool ill hop in there

wax eagle

2:31 PM

Tact-tiles is doing a KS: kickstarter.com/projects/804836187/…

Joshua Aslan Smith

Im laughing at the "Celebrity endorsements"

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith specifically Dungeon Bastard's?

Joshua Aslan Smith

oh didnt see that one I specifically mean in the main picture for the KS

monty cooke and RA Salvatore

wax eagle

ah yeah...only celebrities in the D&D/RP world :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

did you play 3.5 at anypoint? You should buy this product then!

right yes, I guess I should have italicized vs. quotes

wax eagle

2:38 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith lol yeah

Joshua Aslan Smith

wow is that expensive

I cant help but think printing a 1inch grid on a poster board, chopping it up and then having it laminated would somehow be cheaper

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith much, much cheaper

this is injection molded plastic

Joshua Aslan Smith

the only thing they having goign is the puzzle connectors but its not think enough for those to natter

I just remembered there is a small white board I can take from work

should totally exacto knife it up and india ink the lines into it

wax eagle

I'm in the market for a new battle mat solution. My current mats are largish pieces of 1/2" grid poster board where I inked the 1" lines strongly and covered it in contact paper

I'm looking for something more durable, but still inexpensive...the tacttiles are prety expensive but look super durable

(hard plastic vs paper or cardboard)

there's also the chessex mats to consider

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah Ive been super on the fence about the chessex mat for a long time

I hate carrying a colletcion of things around to the game shop though

and my house does not have a suitable table or chairs for serioius gaming

wax eagle

2:47 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith we mostly play at my house, so that's fine. Longterm I'm going to put a large gridded whiteboard table in my basement. but I need to do a lot of work to my basement first

GamerJosh

@waxeagle I have a couple of the chessex mats -- i love them

biggest drawback in my opinion is the amount of ink i have on my fingers at the end of a session ;)

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle truly the dream

GamerJosh

i look like i lost a fight with a ROYGBIV Dragon

Joshua Aslan Smith

well actually my dream is like a giant surface table

or a class table with projection from below

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith I has an 800 sq ft basement :). I need to fix a water issue in there, tear out the carpet, bleach the bejesus out of it and then replace the carpet

Joshua Aslan Smith

2:54 PM

lol

theres a lot of stuff being researched in HCI right now that everytime I see it I just want to visit whatever lab its in and play D&D on it

context sensitive surfaces

wax eagle

yeah, I'm considering a variety of options or the table. Dream would be to actually do a combination of projections, similar tech to telepods/skylanders and probably an undersurface that can be swapped from grids to hexes

Joshua Aslan Smith

basically integrating software like roll 20 with these camera-projection tables, and Ipads

its probably only 10 years off realistically at the business level for collaboration spaces

maybe 5 years

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah. I think right now, you could probably implement it, but you'd have to do a lot of things yourself.

(the only thing I'm not sure of is mini positions

lisardggY

@JoshuaAslanSmith I dunno. I really love all the things they're doing with these technologies, but for D&D, I like to have a couple of dice and paper sheets around the table.

Joshua Aslan Smith

right, so if it was discs/tokens like those that came with 4e mods I think it could handle that but you are right the 3d nature of minis would make them hard for a camera to recognize

wax eagle

3:00 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith I'm looking into whether RFID has granularity enough to be usable

Joshua Aslan Smith

right was just about to say that

also if you painted the bases solid colors in specific tones it might be able to recognize characters based on base color

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith that might be more likely. Lighthing would have to be incredibly consistent though

Joshua Aslan Smith

agreed

software wise itd be a headache to implement at home

I very much see this sort of thing developing in the way video games at home eventually evolved out of time wasters coders and researchers made and put on company/university mainframes

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith probably, it depends on what tech you choose, and what the APIs look like. If I'm a bored programmer with a good API, I can probably do it :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah I dont think roll 20 has an open or even limited API going on

wax eagle

3:05 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith which means choosing a different mat program (which tbh, you might want to implement yourself anyways. It's not super hard to display an image and move things around it)

Joshua Aslan Smith

correct

the base code/concept is not crazy I think its just getting the bugs out of something like that if you aren't a specialist in dealing with it that might be a bit much

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith yeah.

Oxinabox

we've been talking about a ceiling mounted projector to project a battle mat

on to a whiteboard table

wax eagle

@Oxinabox as have we, I've got one that I need to fire up and figure out if it can throw a clear image at short range (basement ceilings are low)

Oxinabox

It is a nifty idea.

wax eagle

3:08 PM

I've seen some folks do it from below onto a clear table too, which may be more practical in my case

(not that I have a clear table right at the moment, but I could build one)

Oxinabox

If you want to throw money at it, iirc a Laser projector has a shorter range

wax eagle

just the aforementioned low ceiling issue

@Oxinabox yeah...not made of money here :)

actually short throw projs aren't super bad...under 1k

(and it's not like you need a super good one)

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle couldnt you set it back and use the keystone or whatever its called feature

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith not sure, haven't played with it yet

I've not looked into this as much as I've wanted to for lack of resources to actually implement it mostly

Joshua Aslan Smith

yeah keystone correction is what its called

basically the image is bent to make up for the obvious distortion that would occur when its projected at an angle to the display surface

wax eagle

3:12 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith gotcha

Joshua Aslan Smith

Keystone effect

The keystone effect, also known as the tombstone effect, is caused by attempting to project an image onto a surface at an angle, as with a projector not quite centered onto the screen it is projecting on. It is a distortion of the image dimensions, such as making a square look like a trapezoid, the shape of an architectural keystone, hence the name of the feature. In the typical case of a projector sitting on a table, and looking upwards to the screen, the image is larger at the top than on the bottom. Some areas of the screen may not be focused correctly as the projector lens is focused at the...

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith I see what you're saying, yeah I'd have to figure out how much throw I need, and how to do it without players blocking it

Oxinabox

The other big money solution: samsung.com/au/business/business-products/smart-signage/…

wax eagle

@Oxinabox this would actually be my pref...

and if you did that, you could pretty much do away with minis entirely :)

Joshua Aslan Smith

thats what I meant by a surface earlier

Oxinabox

3:14 PM

I'm looking forward to combining those with someithing like Age of empires. for Wargames meets RTS

Joshua Aslan Smith

theres something about minis as tokens for PCs though

wax eagle

or use tokens in Roll 20 and move minis accordingly (until you solve how to not duplicate effort)

Joshua Aslan Smith

by token I mean a psychological artifact

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith my first 5e session we used minis the whole night, and it was awesome (no grid, just used the minis to track general distances and engagement)

Joshua Aslan Smith

I feel bad because Im already homebrewing 5e (i believe) because Im just using 4e style diagonal movement

I will probably completely replicate the 4e terrain rules in any 5e game I play, I may even make charges work like 4e

because martial characters need all the help they cn get

wax eagle

3:17 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith I don't think that's a problem actually. Because of how 4e defines the grid it should work provided that 5e stays consistent about using 5' distances

the only place where I've seen the grid issue come up, is actually in cone vs cube. And tbh I have no problem ruling those as the same(except for one big difference, Cube is fully 3d, cone goes into 3 dimensions more slowly.(origin square is 1 high, squares adjacent to that are 2, squares further are 3)

Joshua Aslan Smith

I may be confusing final playtest rules with basic rules

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith (there is nothing about diag movement in basic that I saw)

actually there is, Diag is counted normally

(inset on 71)

with a note that it sacrifices realism for ease...

Joshua Aslan Smith

ah okay

so that was playtest packet then

running dead in thay while basic came out was confusing

wax eagle

I can imagine

Joshua Aslan Smith

I just read an article that said 5e combat was less dumbed down than 4e compared to 3.5

this is why I need a stress ball at work

Mourdos

3:35 PM

@JoshuaAslanSmith Is that not true? :-)

@JoshuaAslanSmith How is 4e movement different to 3.5 movement? does it use 5-5-5 instead of 5-10-5 movement?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@Mourdos ah seperate issues, the article was not talking about movement in particular

yeah 4e has movement in any direction costing 1 square/5ft

So comparing basic fighter or rogue vs. their 4e AEDU and Essentials counterparts there are still way more things happening and decisions to make, even the Fighter(Knight) which is probably the simplest of essentials classes is doing more interesting things than the 5e Fighter does

RobertF

4:13 PM

Been thinking about how D&D PCs with different alignments would respond to particular situations - eg, how would 9 characters, each with one of the nine alignments, behave if they witnessed villagers torturing a captured Orc? What if the law of the land officially sanctioned ritual torture of evil creatures?

Mourdos

I would respond to that by ignoring the alignment system :-)

RobertF

I can see Lawful Good either ignoring the torture (if it was legal) or attempting to free the Orc (if the torture was illegal).

Mourdos

Actually, the premise is kind of wrong. The assumption is that you act a certain way because of your alignment, rather than being of your alignment because you act a certain way.

Sorry, personal bugbear.

RobertF

@Mourdo - Yes alignment is a major hangup in D&D, agreed.

Another scenario that's come up before is when the party runs into a den filled with Orc mothers and their brood of vicious Orc babies/toddlers. Is it morally reprehensible to kill them all? Or no big deal, it's just a game? I'd be inclined to let them live and move on.

Grubermensch

@Mourdos This is how I have always played it, because otherwise makes no sense for a "normal" character.

There are the cases of creatures which are actually forces of the universe, where it makes sense to go the other way (angels, demons, maybe some gods depending on how the metaphysics works out), but for the standard free-willed creature, alignment is a description, not a definition.

Oxinabox

4:34 PM

Hey, anyone know any nondead language that uses a unique (or at least obsure) alphabet?
(By nondead i mean still spoken as a primary tongue)

Grubermensch

@waxeagle any lucking recruiting players for thursday?

RobertF

@Oxinabox - Define an obscure alphabet - wouldn't the alphabet no longer be obscure if the language is still spoken?

Has anyone played around with the alignment languages in older editions of D&D? I never did understand the justification for an alignment language. Perhaps so beings from different worlds/planes could communicate with one another when on a plane sharing their alignment?

Oxinabox

For example there are some endangered languages that use the latin script.
The alphabet is not obsure -- it is used in english and many other languages.
But the langage is obsure.

If it had have use its own alphabet, and was a endangered language then the alphabet would be obsure enough

(as would the language)

Mkhedruli, is not bad.
It uses the Georgian script which while similar to greek seems pretty different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingrelian_alphabet#Alphabet

Grubermensch

What is it that you are trying to do here?

@RobertF In older editions of D&D each creature type had a definite alignment (except humans, because, yay! implicit racism), so it wasn't quite so nonsensical for the alignment super-languages to exist

RobertF

How about the Cherokee syllabary created by Sequoyah in the early 19th century? As of 1980, ~10,000 Western Cerokees still use the language. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherokee_syllabary

Oxinabox

4:47 PM

In demon the decent a demon can speak (and I assert read) any language that is still spoken.

as a primary tongue

Joshua Aslan Smith

@oxinabox cyrillic

Oxinabox

(They can't do latin, but theorise that if they get a few hundren children and raised them to speak latin, then every demon in the world suddenly would be able to)

Joshua Aslan Smith

Cyrillic script

The Cyrillic script /sɨˈrɪlɪk/ is an alphabetic writing system employed across Eurasia. It is based on the Early Cyrillic, which was developed in the First Bulgarian Empire during the 9th century AD at the Preslav Literary School. It is the basis of alphabets used in various languages, past and present, in parts of the Balkans and Northern Eurasia, especially those of Slavic origin, and non-Slavic languages influenced by Russian. As of 2011, around 252 million people in Eurasia use it as the official alphabet for their national languages. About half of them are in Russia. Cyrillic is one of the...

Grubermensch

Manchu alphabet

The Manchu alphabet was used for recording the now near-extinct Manchu language; a similar script is used today by the Xibe people, who speak a language variably considered as either a dialect of Manchu or a closely related, mutually intelligible, language. It is written vertically from top to bottom, with columns proceeding from left to right. == History == According to the Veritable Records (Manchu: manju-i yargiyan kooli; Chinese: 滿洲實錄; pinyin: Mǎnzhōu Shílù), in 1599 the Manchu leader Nurhaci decided to convert the Mongolian alphabet to make it suitable for the Manchu people. He decried the...

Oxinabox

Cyrillic is super well known though.
It is used in several national languages.

Manchu is fairly ideal.
It also has the very demon benifit that all text in it can be rendered unreadble by demons for the simple murder of less than 2 dozen people

Grubermensch

4:51 PM

There are ~70 Manchu speakers left in the world, though it is very similar to Xibe, which has thousands of speakers.

Oxinabox

ok 70 is a big task to kill off, but still viable

Grubermensch

Also it is pretty. I might use this in a game.

RobertF

@Oxinabo - You're going to kill the remaining Manchu speakers?

Grubermensch is responsible for the mass murder that's about to occur...

Oxinabox

Probably won't come to that.

but it would motivate Manchu as a language to use over others

Grubermensch

* sigh *

again?

RobertF

5:05 PM

Anyone here going to the Gen Con in a couple weeks? One of these years I'd like to attend.

okeefe

5:20 PM

I'll be at Gen Con.

Is it just me, or is the chat hard to find from rpg.se?

Oh, I guess there's the pulldown I never use. I had to search for "chat" and find the link on the bottom.

RobertF

Have you been before? Was it worth the trip (i.e., lots of gaming activities, presentations, discounts on RPGs)?

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle can I get a link to your DPAD as-is? or did you not want to share until finished

Ill probably never go to gencon because of how burned I felt over the gencon exclusive for the next playtest

okeefe

@RobertF I have! I go mainly to game with friends that originally met on the internet. I also run games at Games on Demand. Presentations are hit-or-miss, depends on what you're looking for. No appreciable discount on RPGs, mostly?

@RobertF I am kind of tempted to skip GC next year and go to more PAXes instead.

@RobertF Getting a decent hotel at GC is becoming a huge pain.

RobertF

Ah, understood. I've never been in downtown Indianapolis but imagine it's pretty hairy at convention time. The PAX conferences cover both computer games and RPGs, right?

okeefe

@RobertF PAX has a huge video/computer focus, but it does have tabletop including rpgs. And very good tabletop panels selection (I can mostly speak for PAX East).

RobertF

5:28 PM

@Joshua - What was the next playtest exclusive at gencon? You mean the D&D Next playtest?

okeefe

Gen Con purchase-wise, I found that that's mostly been replaced by Kickstarter for me.

Joshua Aslan Smith

So the playtest was open signup

but what happend with gencon last year

was that they created a big adventure booklet, with the august playtest rules included

it was the launching point storywise for their new story with The Sundering

okeefe

My main purchase at gc2013 were the weird dice for DCC.

Joshua Aslan Smith

it was gen con exclusive

it wasnt til 6 months later they released a digital version

well and after I and most people cared to buy it

*3 months actually

Just left a bad taste in my mouth

RobertF

So you ponied up $$$ for the book that was offered for free in 3 months? Yea, that stinks.

Wil Wheaton does the onstage roleplaying at PAX, right?

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:32 PM

not free

it was more like me and everyone who didnt got fumed about not being able to buy it until so much later

okeefe

I'm kind of curious what kind of madness will come with the 5e launch, but 5e isn't a focus for me at the moment.

@RobertF They do that at Prime and did something similar (different changeup of people) at the most recent East.

Joshua Aslan Smith

I think it all went down because of some backroom deal with gale force 9 because it came with a GF9 limited edition mini

5e's launch officially happened with Basic's release and the starter kit on july 15th

and the books are coming out staggered

so its kind of a soft launch in that sense

RobertF

I think WotC needs TV spots for 5e. :) Anyone remember way back when there were commercials for Dungeons & Dragons?

Joshua Aslan Smith

theyve gotten a ridiculous amount of press coverage in non gaming news places like WSJ

okeefe

TV is kind of dead. They need shows were people are playing D&D, etc. They need an internet push (which I think they're doing, and not poorly).

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:37 PM

in a way 4e never could have, cultural shift

and yeah I dont think ads on TV are effective at all

okeefe

5e is retro in all the right ways, from a popularity standpoint.

There's nothing offensive about it.

Joshua Aslan Smith

lol damning with faint praise

I completely agree mind you

even if thats not what you are actually saying

I think for a wider audience they've positioned it well

RobertF

So 4e was WotC's response to WoW and other MMORPGs, 5e is WotC's response to D&D retroclones do you think?

Joshua Aslan Smith

I think thats a false premise

I dont think 4e was specifically making an MMO RPG, but rather hasbro had a multi-product initiative requirement at the time so 4e was presented in the way that it was because the core rules could easily be used for an actual card game, a board game, and for video games

none of that ever really materialized, the D&D boardgames that came later don't work on 4es actual mechanics

but that influenced the design, but I also feel like 4e actually made bold choices and sacrificed some sacred cows/neutered them enough to make real changes

5es stated goal is basically to reunite the fanbase/community, so its designed to please as many fans of as many editions as possible

and if we talk about this more we'll have to move it over to the 5e discussion channel

okeefe

5e is their response to the entire D&D-playing audience to get them to take another look. Some of those people are on board with anything that says D&D. A lot of people were happy with 3e/pf and never left. A lot of people bought 4e and feel burned.

(I'm sure there are people out there that love 4e. I just don't know any.)

The free Basic rules were a really good pitch to the D&D audience.

That said, I'm not sure when I'd reach for 5e when I have half a dozen D&D-like games to choose from already.

And each one does something slightly differently, and I can choose one over the other knowing that. 5e is a blank slate, in comparison.

Joshua Aslan Smith

5:54 PM

@okeefe myself, besw, & waxeagle to name a few in this chatroom regularly

but yes in general 4e players feel like the red-headed stepchild of this edition

okeefe

TBD if 5e offers 4e-like powers and whatnot as a rules module. There's still a lot of "wait and see" with 5e.

Which makes sense. They've got a real plan this time around.

Joshua Aslan Smith

right, I have some jaded hope that DMG might allow me to salvage 5e to be somethign I want

okeefe

I'm not going to buy 5e physical books unless a 5e group magically coalesces around me. I will wait for pdfs. That's the lesson I learned from 4e.

wax eagle

@JoshuaAslanSmith public share: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/…

RobertF

Yes - good point. I do wish WotC will be more bold with 5e, and offer optional ideas like classless, point building PCs (as in GURPS), different magic systems, streamlined combat (always complaints that it's too slow).

okeefe

6:00 PM

I have not heard too-slow complaints with 5e yet, so that's something.

Grubermensch

this is really gonna have to mosey on over next door

Joshua Aslan Smith

@waxeagle thanks for the share

@waxeagle so what changes to your model brought the damage down from a 700 to 2400 spread to everyone in the 900-1100 range?

I guess answer that in the 5e room

Zachiel

9:48 PM

5

Q: Does magic armor automatically resize?

I tought I was pretty sure this is not the case, but some discussion has arisen and I'm not so sure anymore. What I know: Most magical objects in the game auto-resize when worn by creatures of different sizes. There is a table detailing weight and cost of non-medium armor. This could still be ...

1000 views already

such wow

much awe

@okeefe you know me. Sort of.

BESW

10:06 PM

Hello, chat. What did I miss while the power was out?

Grubermensch

Apparently I convinced @Oxinabox to place a bunch of innocent fictional Manchurians in mortal peril.

BESW

Oh, my.

Perhaps he can brainwash them into performing suicidal assassinations.

Grubermensch

1

Q: Which systems can be considered balanced? How to predict a fair fight?

I am just wondering which pen and paper systems could be considered rather "balanced" and which are not. The game and rules I know best is The Dark Eye - unfortunately I would consider it quite unbalanced: Creating characters with a wide variety of skills will always be weaker then a character...

new-gm balance

It concerns me that the asker seems to consider combat as the only legitimate aspect of character construction.

> I love the possibilities in character creation, however you can create characters which rather focus on socializing than fighting - this might cause a lack of tactical possibilities and I am yet too inexperienced to tell if it is a problem estimating the fairness of a fight.

* twitch *

BESW

Our pastime's wargaming origin once again rears its biased head.

Grubermensch

10:23 PM

Also, I'm going to try running my first FAE game during a camping trip this weekend.

BESW

Oooh!

Pre-made or group-built?

Grubermensch

i don't have a scenario figured out yet

the players are long-time D&D players, and have expressed a desire to stay in the medieval fantasy genre

if you know of an interesting pre-made in that space, i'll read it

otherwise i've got some designing to do

BESW

Well... how comfortable are you with improvising?

Grubermensch

I need sketches of an idea at least.

The nice thing about the weekend combined with FAE's simplicity is I can work on the whole thing in my head while I'm hiking during the day (it's a backpacking trip, not stay-in-place camping).

BESW

I feel that one of the best parts of the Fate experience is the players' ability to come up with the setting and plot at least partly on their own, quickly before play.

But, especially if it's their first time, I like giving them a framework to hang their ideas on.

To that end, our own @Problematic and I came up with what I call Tribute to the Dragon.

Grubermensch

10:30 PM

oh that one

i read the session you played here

BESW

Did you see how I turned it into a generic frame?

Grubermensch

i don't think so

BESW

Jun 21 at 4:55, by BESW

Tribute to the Dragon is a generic Quest template.

Jun 21 at 4:57, by BESW

During game prep the players identify something they care about (a roadside cafe, their village, a damsel) which is going to be destroyed by a powerful force (a corporation, bandits, a dragon) unless the party undertakes a dangerous journey to acquire something (blackmail information, a bribe or gift) and bring it to that force, then negotiate for the safety of what they value.

Jun 21 at 4:58, by BESW

And that's the session: acquire the tribute, make the dangerous journey, and confront the threatening force.

Grubermensch

Sounds like a good option.

BESW

You could talk with them about it during the hike, even.

Also:

Jun 21 at 5:13, by BESW

@Emrakul Suggestion for starting FAE games fast and improv-y: Players start with High Concept, Trouble, and one aspect relating to another PC at the table; their highest Approach; and one Stunt. Everything else gets filled in during play.

Grubermensch

10:34 PM

Yeah I think I might use that too

Though they may prefer to do everything at the start.

They are used to D&D, after all.

BESW

Aye, it's a call how much to showcase "Fate is different" without scaring them.

Grubermensch

One of them at least is plenty skeptical of the "narrative game" itself.

BESW

Ah, I see.

I'm not sure I've really experienced that kind of player.

Grubermensch

afk dinner

Grubermensch

11:10 PM

and i return

BESW

Yey!

I'm doing math on this kickstarter.

Three of my players are going to fight for two bags.

Grubermensch

oooh purty

BESW

Scrolling through transcript backlog...

@waxeagle Laminate a paper grid, use Crayola window markers. My tear-out map from the 3.5 DMG is almost nine years old. It rolls up for travel (it's done the US-Guam flight three times), is easily marked and erased, has clear grid lines under the marker. It's at least eight years old and--aside from a puncture wound where the coloured marker is slowly bleeding inside the laminate--its only sign of ageing is some dogeared corners and ignorable crease marks.

BESW

11:40 PM

...Hmm. [goes to look up Bahá'í laws and guidance re: destruction of books]

(Reading the chat transcript on the topic, I suddenly realised that I've never looked it up for myself, only been told about it by others.)

doppelgreener

@BESW what do they say?

BESW

@JonathanHobbs It's kinda complicated because of historical context relating to the astonishingly short duration of the Bábí Faith, but in summary: Under no circumstances are we expected to destroy books (previous Dispensations had conditions in which it was righteous to do so), and while it doesn't seem to be banned outright the practice is called "brutal."

And when we look at the other laws and guidances which call for making education universally available, and espouse each individual's independent investigation of the truth as a fundamental tenet of the Age, we see why.

doppelgreener

@BESW aha i see

what if it's a terrible awful book though?

(i guess it permits but doesn't encourage?)

BESW

I guess so? The general sense seems to be that one group of people shouldn't be deciding what information another group should have access to.

The context of lifting the previous Dispensations' injunctions to destroy certain kinds of books is that their intent has been perverted to further the material schemes of people who don't care about their original context, so the laws have been lifted entirely to avoid that kind of exploitation.

But that gets into some rather convoluted stuff about the Twin Manifestations and the history of Persia at the time, which is probably far too off-topic even for this chat and if you want to go further on it we should take it to the Not A Bar.

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