Root Access

@Mokubai I don't really like streaming. Tried it out with the Steam stuff but it didn't feel right for some reason.

Might've been some scaling/resolution/compression artefacts.

@Mokubai Well, depending on whether it was a really good deal before and whether you care about warranty, the shop disappearing before you buy might've been the better outcome :P

I tried it early and it was laggy and crap, but again about 6 months ago it was fine. Delay was under 40ms

Bearable, especially for slower games

@Mokubai Hm. Depends on game.

Showed how crap my TV is though. The picture cuts out every 5 to 10 mins if the refresh rate is set to 60hz.

50hz is fine

8:03 AM

@Mokubai Oh, other issue I had with Steam was it required that the computer be left unlocked.

Dunno if they've changed that since. Probably not.

@Mokubai: I have a very simple requirement for laptops

Aye. There's. That too. The compy has to be open and viewing the game

@JourneymanGeek Keyboard? :P

Needs to be light, have a decent keyboard, runs a web browser ;p

@JourneymanGeek Eh, I'd put a minimum speed requirement on that too.

8:04 AM

We're at the point tho where you don't need to get a MBA or a X series for that.

My Z2760 tablet runs a browser. It just lags all the time.

Page load? Lag. Page JS doing something? Lag. Close tab? Lag.

@Bob: My stream 11 does fine. More hard disk space would be nice but only cause chrome is a space hogging pig.

Type? Lag. Scroll? Lag.

Try to bring up the Win10 sidebar? Lag :S

Other tablet with a Z3740 runs much better though.

So presumably any new model would be fine.

Yeah

@JourneymanGeek When your web browser is causing HDD space issues, you have a problem :S

8:07 AM

I think in a generation or two the storage issue ought to be solved

@Bob: 32 gb of storage, and chrome keeps old versions. LOTS of old versions

And I run canary, so more updates

@JourneymanGeek Oh yea. That was confusing.

and I only need chrome for CRD

As in, whyyyyyy

It doesn't even seem to use them!

No idea!

Keeping 2-3 versions maybe. Keeping 20?

@JourneymanGeek At work I have a 120 GB SSD as the primary drive.

It is not fun juggling Chrome, three different copies of Visual Studio, a Windows SDK and other assorted crap on there.

@JourneymanGeek I don't see a reason to keep even one previous version if there's never any way to use them.

8:09 AM

@Bob yeah

which is annoying.

Its easier for me to use chrome remote desktop on my phone

They did upgrade me from 4 GB to 8 GB RAM last year though. Thank god.

Trying to run a bunch of VMs on 4 GB... with NetBeans eating another 1.5 GB... and browsers taking another 1-2 GB. Ow.

Side note, Win10 really doesn't like running with 1 GB RAM.

lol

1gb of ram + ssd is usable.

(actually 512mb of ram and ssd is... actually not too bad)

@JourneymanGeek Not when you're running it in a VM from a HDD and also trying to test browsers and webapps at the same time.

"VM"

yeaaah

that would do it.

lol

8:15 AM

what is the difference between an extended warrenty and a ponzi scheme? The ponzi scheme pays off for some people :-)

Heh.

Laptops are pretty much the only thing where I might go for it, and even then only when it isn't too expensive.

But I tend to drive my laptops pretty hard. Much harder than the average user.

And unfortunately most of the failures aren't self-repairable.

that is what some consumer reporting said also, that laptops are more likely to be able to take advantage of it, but then 80% of laptops are "broken" physically when there is something wrong, so that doesnt explain how one would get any coverage, when most coverages has more exclusions than inclusions.

Just like the ponzi scheme though they cant sell the majority if they dont pay off on a few people at the first, to represent that the company would back up thier claims. Yet if they had to back up all the claims (after spending most of the money selling, and paying employees) there would still be a cash-out point for the scheme. where the money is taken or gone.

How then does the "consumer" advantage from putting money into a system that eats it up by paying employees and massive paperwork, and payback of investors. the consumer is paying for a Load of nothing. to mitigate a risk, that the company cant really afford to fix.

so 50% of the money goes into a black hole of money that doesnt fix repair or replace things. So in reality the whole of the consumers are paying 200% for the hope that , , , thiers will fail the right way , that is covered :-)

after thinking about it from a business sence, the only thing i could figure out to reduce the money and the risk, is to make sure the product is originally sound (in all users opinions) much research. then to treat everything like glass.

8:38 AM

@Psycogeek That's how all insurance works.

You pay a bit to prevent a major loss in the event something bad happens.

yes, thats how a vaccume works too :-)

If nothing bad happens, you lose what you paid.

@Bob Oh, I wouldn't mind paying for wider coverage.

Not longer coverage

@JourneymanGeek That would be the accidental damage stuff :P

@JourneymanGeek Eh, depends what you're covering.

Most extended warranties target bathtub-curve devices, sure :P

;p

I tend to assume 3 year warranties 5 year "mainline" lifespans, and replacement by 7 ;p

8:41 AM

But I don't exactly fit the 'typical' consumer usage of laptops.

Well, I might now that I use them less.

if everyone plunked down extra 25% and 1-4 people got complete service and repair, that would be great. but the first priority is to pay the people selling it, the investors backing it, and that means 1-20 people might get complete service.

But not so much when carrying it around daily at uni.

@Bob uni student laptops get the most wear and abuse ;p

Yup.

And not even abuse as in 'uncovered'. Just the extra bouncing around can damage those flat flexible cables.

Oh they get thrown into bags, moved around lots...

8:46 AM

gotta love the new hard disk warrenties, take perfect care of your drive, and out of the blue something completely out of your hands fails. They send you sombody elses failed (but retested) drive back to you. what am i going to do with that? certannly not put it in as a solid sure thing .

"new"?

I'm pretty sure they've been doing that for years.

yes years, but long ago in a far off land, they had sent me a new drive.

I'm lucky enough to not have had a HDD failure in a while.

Of course, now that I've said that, it'll fail tomorrow.

Or just as soon as I break the RAID.

i expect they (one of) will fail eventually, and it will then be time to refresh the lot. like replacing 2 headlights in a car when one goes out :-)

or replacing all the batts in the smoke alarms when one starts beeping. warnings of impending doom heeded.

I would not usually put so many miles on a hard drive , before desiring to upgrade the Size thing, and having the spun-up time being a great added excuse to change them.

9:08 AM

@Bob Another reason I like big screens... I occationally need to see the screen from the floor ;p

@JourneymanGeek Isn't that your default location? :P

Doggy chair?

(Ash demands he be allowed to nap on my lap, apparently helps his poor arthritic leg)

@Bob as good a reason as any then!

Hm. A Chromebook was going for 110 USD earlier.

I wonder how well they run.

do a Poll on SU , Is your chromebook in the closet ?
A) what's a chromebook
B) Kids got it, dont know what they do with it
C) No it sits unused on a shelf
D) greated thing ever invented, use it everyday.
E) see mine on e-bay

@Bob it massively depends

!!no

ChatBot John Cavil

9:20 AM

No polls!

@Bob there's arm models, x86 models

and display quality varies hugely

@JourneymanGeek Was this one.

But I was more talking about the OS design.

thats the 3rd person who said ~"can't have more than 3 tabs open" , guess that leaves bob out of that model.

lol

put chrome browser on a weak low memory system, and it seems expected. just run IE instead :-)

9:32 AM

That one has 2 GB of RAM. So it's not terrible.

For the price anyway.

I would probably rather have one of the 2 OSes i am familliar with myself. it takes time to figure out new stuff, and assemble an array of 3rd party programs to get things all setup.

i believe i could survive without much thinking or re-buying on a fat android tablet.

any winders system thing, i would want it to run "the exact same" as the desktop, and not some ARMincompatable thing.

Mhm. While I do spend most of my time in a web browser, I still dip into non-browser programs quite often.

For things like the windows Surface weanie , If users had not explained in whiney comments , that things are not compatable , i would never know from the sales stuff. "the pc for everything, that does everything always easily" (in fine print) that is completly incompatable with all your previous programs.

the other one that would bug me , i do not know enough about yet. Run word processing, watch videos, play music, play games . . Only While connected to the web. Or requring a web log-in first before operation.

any computer that can run some browser that works, can now claim to have every program ability that (almost) ever existed, because much and much of it could be run off of web sites itself.

One could claim that the PC has access to 5000 games for example, cute little flash games that exist by the thousands on the web.

but still doesnt have a GPU that would render the lowest of 3D scene :-)

10:02 AM

@Bob build quality on the acers is supposedly a bit naff

" Is WiFi available "
Answer: You really couldn't do much with this without it. Chromebooks rely heavily on a connection to the web
Oh , that answers that question.

And here i thought "internet appliances" died, before I had a chance to stick one on the refridgerator .

@JourneymanGeek Ah. Still, that's about the price you'd find an Atom tablet.

With 1 GB RAM :P

or the price you could pay for a keyboard that actually works :-)

1:53 PM

\o/

@Mokubai Are you drowning?

Tis very quiet in here today ;)

Not anymore... got the SSD fitted, then cloned OS onto it, and with a few commands in Win10 recovery console it now boots

@DavidPostill was meant to be me cheering

\o/!

@Mokubai how did you clone it in the end?

Ah.

Can you see why I was confused? ;)

2:11 PM

@JourneymanGeek Macrium to clone it, AOMEI to convert the disk back to MBR (from GPT), then bootrec /fixmbr /fixboot /rebuildbcd in recovery

Could have been a lot more painful. That was relatively painless

ahh

Pity about Aomei

For some reason when I copied the system reserved partition Macrium kept wanting to convert the disk to GPT

Their stuff usually works decently, but they are spammy :(

Aye. Seemed to be the opinion I got online before downloading.

But disk is in and all I have left is to reclaim the 300GB on the spinning rust. That can wait a while until I'm more confident about this setup.

Yeah

Generally a good idea

I tend to do 'migrations' off my backups and they tend to be less complex than what you did, so I don't bother.

(also, the last upgrade I did involved swapping disks down from my desktop, to my laptop, and the laptop drive to my dad's machine ;p)

Abhishek Bhatia

2:18 PM

this might be a silly question
but how to do I run a .maxhelp file?

what extension is this?

Link: sites.google.com/site/…
mentions -> run the "kin.skel.maxhelp"

@AbhishekBhatia extensions mean nothing.

Also that's an incomplete link.

Abhishek Bhatia

Sry Link: sites.google.com/site/kineticproject09/home/files

@AbhishekBhatia That's a terribad website.

Seems this is a file for "MAX"

Max (software)

Max is a visual programming language for music and multimedia developed and maintained by San Francisco-based software company Cycling '74. During its 20-year history, it has been used by composers, performers, software designers, researchers, and artists to create recordings, performances, and installations. The Max program is modular. Most routines exist as shared libraries. An application programming interface (API) allows third-party development of new routines (named external objects). Thus, Max has a large user base of programmers unaffiliated with Cycling '74 who enhance the software with...

And since I believe in teaching a man to fish...

Next time you need a file identified mark0.net/onlinetrid.aspx is awesome

@DavidPostill I admit that particular emoticon could have a few meanings :)

Sorry, got distracted and then shed got delivered

Damn you Black Friday!

hm. I sometimes listen to stuff cause I randomly have it stuck in my head. Its a bit wierd when I just listened to a cruxshadows song, then mandrin bubbleegum pop.

@Mokubai shed happened?

Abhishek Bhatia

2:26 PM

thank

s!

@JourneymanGeek Shed, SSD, Christmas presents, shoes, automagic cat bowls.... urgh. Money vanished.

(also, trid is totally the hotness. If you're on linux file also works)

lol

@Mokubai I don't have xmas ;p

But when I get employed again, I'm probably blowing a pretty substancial part of my first paycheck on backloged stuff.

@JourneymanGeek But then you can spend all your hard earned money on yourself for cool stuff instead of rubbish like jumpers and socks for other people

@Mokubai heh, I'm planning on getting my dad a 4k display once reasonably priced systems that can handle it for the basics come out ;p

Also, what's the point of working if you can't spoil yourself a little ;)

'sactly!

2:32 PM

(and if all goes to plan, I should get a job by the time the planned purchases hit the 3 month rule mark ;p)

Awesome! So is there a good prospect on the horizon? I assume you've still not heard from the other guys...

Nope

Sending out more applications ;p

I've done this dance before. My brother hit 200 applications, and 2 interviews before he got hired.

I'm at about... 20-30

Eep!

I should be sending out more, but I'm prioritising places I'd actually rather work for.

(Job market in singapore is a leeetle strange)

For example, most companies that are on Tier 1 (places I'd love to work for) actually give you some sort of feedback that they got your application.

Most local ones...

just file it in /dev/null

One company with a portal probably has my last application from almost a year ago still pending. It was like that 3 months after I applied.

So yeah, keeping positive, polishing up that resume, keeping an eye out on linkedin, and the jobs bank (which SHOULD be useful but ain't) and sending out applications ;p

@JourneymanGeek I'll have a look around the job boards for my company/group if you'd like.

Kept meaning to anyway but had looked at my part of the company and saw not much...

2:47 PM

@Mokubai Any help's awesome. I'm primarily applying to jobs here simply cause its simpler to handle the logistics. (Other than of course SE, which I've not heard back from, and github, who're lovely people who arn't hiring from my neck of the woods, but were so nice about it).

(Would be funny if I accidentally stumble upon a job like the last time, though as far as the VFX industry goes hell no.)

Hmmm. No Win10 TH2 update :/

o0

I got mine a little back

@JourneymanGeek I know you were in tech support, but what jobs are you looking at?

@JourneymanGeek Looks like it got pulled and then re-released. I couldn't do the update before because of the weird setup.

@Mokubai most of the stuff I'm applying for is helpdesk.

I'd like to get a little more experience before I change tracks

Very junior sysadmin type stuff's supercool.

I got offerered a temp role moving boxes for microfilm conversion. Said hell no ;p

Hehe

Hated every moment of temp work, was always phone helpdesk or call centres.

2:58 PM

Oh, they asked me if I was interested in software testing

I was like "Cool, I can do that"

Then they said the client hadn't gotten back to them

(also this was entirely unsolicited so... meh)

Nice....

Temp work that looks nicer on a resume I'm cool with.

"moved boxes for microfilm conversion" does not look good on my resume

Well yeah, you want something at least vaguely relevant, not "Box Mobility Technician"

yup

Cheers for recommending Macrium though, it looks like it did the copy well.

3:03 PM

Oh, I used macrium for years ;p

So yeah, it probably did ;p

:)

Well, World of Warcraft seems to run well off it, not that the spinning rust was that slow about it either.

(veem handles my need for routine backups better, though I'd love to be able to run multiple backup jobs on it)

Hard drives got good

cache got cheap.

That said, any system I upgraded to a SSD feels drastically faster so...

(even that old c2d I threw on one of the cheap chinese dram-less SSDs)

I wouldn't say it feels faster so much as just snappier. It's always been a solid rig and never starved of memory or power.

3:06 PM

yup

The most magical thing for me is boot times ;p

@Mokubai I did V(ideo)0IP support on a 3 month contract. I ended up working there for nearly 5 years, ending up as Team Leader/Trainer/Support. It was the most interesting job I ever had - although not the best paid (until I was made redundant when they moved the call centre to Poland).

I was surprised that going from 2TB RAID0 to 3TB single disk actually felt faster though...

It was fakeraid but I suspect it was actually disk latency that was killing games, especially when loading lots of small files.

I ended up doing triple play support (TV/Internet/VoIP) as well as responsible for number porting (to and from other carriers).

Never a dull moment.

@Mokubai I'm toying with throwing in my second 120gb ssd to run games off of

Need to reorganise my drives tho

@DavidPostill Having a job you like is the best way to be in my book.

A job you hate is just work, a job you like is fun

3:10 PM

They sure know how to write interesting subjects! :P

@JourneymanGeek That only applies if you reboot :P

Bah. No shipping outside US again.

@Bob: Only my nuc/linux box runs 24/7 ;p

Oh, I need to repurpose my RPi sometime

It's been sitting completely unused since I took it off the router role. Still powered up too.

...I wonder if it's still accessible

lol

---------------------------
KiTTY Error
---------------------------
Unable to open connection to
raspberrypi
Host does not exist
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

...hmm

ditto, once I decide for what ;p

3:14 PM

Oh, wrong name.

---------------------------
KiTTY Fatal Error
---------------------------
Network error: Connection timed out
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------

Hmm. That's not good.

I'll have to try restarting it, if I remember :P

(It's in the other room, and middle of the night... cbf)

@JourneymanGeek Yea, it'll probably land in the ol' pile of unused electronics.

Along with the two Android tablets gathering dust.

lol

If anyone has suggestions of uses for those, tell me! :P

Also have a small pile of phones now...

All really cheap/shoddy crap that kinda works.

Sounds like my place. Many devices without a use...

lol

most of my gear gets run to the ground.

Got a couple of naff Intel based tablets that I'd like to see Win10 on, but I'm too lazy to try and figure it out

plus they've only got 8GB

3:18 PM

@Mokubai Ha. My first (and only, so far) Win10 device is a VivoTab Smart

Atom Z2760.

I have an old galaxy tab 2, and a HTC one V. Laptop pile's down to one since I have one setup as a shared system since my other old monitor is dead dead.

slooooow

seems to always have more usable systems than monitors

Which reminds me, I need to wipe my old laptop. Was supposed to do that months ago. My brother wants it :P

@JourneymanGeek Systems with built-in monitors!

lol

@Bob: Not quite how I roll

3:22 PM

@JourneymanGeek Hm?

Hm. Na-ion cells?

@Bob: mix of liking desktops, and running hardware to failure ;p

Ah.

4:09 PM

source

Anyone spotted Logitech M570 trackball?

@Bob wonder what the "voltage" is of a graphene sodium ion battery

Will $29 be lowest price this year on Amazon?

I passed on Performance MX because trackball is what I believe better for me.

@Psycogeek Well, if they're sticking it in an 18650 I'd hope it's somewhere around 3-4.5 volts.

they have the lithium iron battery out in all the same basic shapes and sizes as li-ion, it is much more robust, like years more and many more cycles. but the voltage is lower, and the weight per watt is higher.

4:14 PM

> Sodium ion cells have been reported with a voltage of 3.6 volts

@Psycogeek LiFePO4?

The nominal is 3.2. Lower, yea, but still mostly compatible with devices expecting 3.7 V nominal Li-ion.

some of the Bagged, or poly style, dont weight that much more for the same "amps" but the voltage lower lowers the total wattage a lot. if one did not Need, or use, or match the voltage well, then it would not be a big deal that it is lower. Like in the replacement gell cella, and car batts.

Ya, lower energy density. But the most important thing is that it works at all :P

Last thing you want is your device dying because you stuck the wrong type of identically-sized battery in.

i thought the important thing was it was not garbage in 3 years :-) I guess if its "made from seawater" LOL it wont much matter that it only lasts say even less time.

3 years of daily cycles is pretty good :P

Especially if it's cheap

Unfortunately that doesn't really work with proprietary form factors

that can obsolete the device itself, when there is no good battery that can easily be purchaced for it.

4:25 PM

Yea. That's already a problem with Li-ion

some of my older stuff lukcily china still makes junk li-ion batts for it :-) which it can survive on, although it is lower tested out than the oem stuff.

Slightly dangerous though :/

then if turnover of the batteries of an older device drops off completly, the cell that one is buying may already be dead. Saw Frys one time realise that 90% of the yellowed packaging, aged batts they had on the shelf were finished long ago, they just took every one of them down.

(of course i was in there trying to get one)

would it be so Odd if there was a Standards coalition for battery sizes :-) 101 specific sizes, build your damn machine around them.

Where's @JourneymanGeek's favourite xkcd :P

Of course they could not resist having size #67 v2.17

4:32 PM

!!xkcd standards

ChatBot John Cavil

Fortunately, the charging one has been solved now that we've all standardized on mini-USB. Or is it micro-USB? Shit.

@Psycogeek we do have a lot for cylindrical cells

@Boris_yo "Anyone spotted Logitech M570 trackball?" There's one under my right hand ;)

@Bob sure, lots of use for the 18650, so then some foo makes a 18500, and a 18350 , should have stopped them then and there :-)

@DavidPostill For $29?

4:35 PM

I wonder how much profit they make off replacement batteries, e.g. for phones

The other argument is that they can better fit proprietary in their devices

@Bob because 2mm would have mattered

@Boris_yo That's probably more than the postage. I paid 60 euros for it. mediamarkt.nl/nl/product/_logitech-m570-1142510.html

@Psycogeek That's what she said

29$ sounds like a good deal ;)

@DavidPostill It's $27 today...

4:38 PM

Cool thing this wireless air mouse keyboard used a common sized Nokia battery, and made it removable. smart thinking, if it wasnt for all the nokia phones that used it . . . obsolete

@Psycogeek Honestly, I sdon't see much of a problem with these things

The vast majority of devices use either standard sizes (e.g. 18650) or prismatic cells

And prismatic cells come in just about every size and shape off the shelf.

You can basically find a prismatic cell to fit any square orifice

Everything from 20x20x3mm to 400x300x40mm

@Boris_yo Amazon UK has it for 51 UKP. 46 UKP for the non UK model. Hmm why should the non UK model be cheaper I wonder. It looks exactly the same to me. amazon.co.uk/s/…

The only things that I can't readily find off-the-shelf batteries to fit are probably wearables and the Macbook with its custom layered cells

I have 2. I can't recommend them enough. I get RSI with an ordinary rodent :/

or rectangular, but they are not made one by one, they are made in thousands, so finding ONE that fits for something that people are not applying . . . the age thing, which includes the stuff rotting on the shelves, ordered over the web etc.

4:43 PM

Still don't find that an issue. Plenty of sellers including ebay have just about everything on sale in individual units

A lithium-ion battery ages the moment it left the factory. it has less shelf time than a Oreo cookie :-)

Eh.

Properly stored Li-Ion batteries will still retain 90% capacity after years on the shelf

properly stored or not they die from age.

So do SSDs. Just not in any lifespan relevant to us mortal humans

Chronological age is the least important factor when it comes to Li-Ion ageing

@qasdfdsaq quality of the cell is the most important, but they die from age when stored properly.

4:48 PM

Not before people die first.

2 mins ago, by qasdfdsaq

Chronological age is the least important factor when it comes to Li-Ion ageing

the age ranges from 2-3 years for the usual china junk, to a max of 8-10 years for the best cells made.

A single day stored at an excessive temperature, constant charge cycles, or undervoltage/short-circuited will do more wear than several years of storage

Cells on the shelf don't "die" of age. They die from not being charged

you do know i was referring specific to li-ion chemestries?

Self-discharge is the biggest problem, and where you see the difference you describe between "cheap" and "best cells"

Well duh, unless you think I was talking about cylindrical lead-acid batteries in my laptop...

A "good" li-ion battery has zero problem with self discharge, only when they go bad do they start doing that. plus various versions of protection curcuits that are not made as well as.

4:52 PM

ALL li-ion batteries have self discharge.

There's a reason nobody publishes lithium-ion ageing figures according to chronological age. Because it has practically zero effect.

Good and bad, definitions in the battery world, are it no longer holds 80% of the original capacity, the self discharge accelerates, and as this gets worse internally it heats on charge, and does not reach full charge levels. which can cause common CC-CV charging scenarios to not stop sending juice into the battery.

And it'd take 30 years storage at room temperature before that happens.

Self discharge on the other hand will kill an unmaintained battery in 1-3 years

uhh where did you read that? what testing have you done that shows that any li-ion battery has lasted 30 years?

A: Power mode change randomly on Windows 10

Hmm User reposting copy of an answer that was previously deleted by @JourneymanGeek

-1

The problem is the ASUS screensaver. I have uninstalled it and I do not observe this behavior anymore

You already posted this answer once and it was deleted by a mod. Why do you think reposting it will work? — DavidPostill 1 min ago

5:05 PM

As for my own testing I'll refer you to the 7 year old laptop battery I have sitting here that has lost 9 percent of its service capacity over the last five years under extremely suboptimal storage conditions

what cells are in it?

@DavidPostill TBH it's more of an answer than the answer above it.

@Psycogeek Pink ones.

@qasdfdsaq Yes. I flagged that one as well ;)

Heh

Sanyo LGchem sony or panasonic ? those cells could last up to 8-10 years, but i cannot get even the best Saft to survive past about 10. Pink might be LGs , or could be sony. LG changes the color for differerent years, and types.

5:11 PM

No idea. They came out of a Samsung battery and are definitely not Panasonic. I've spent hours soldering, duct taping, and gluing this thing together so I can't see the markings anymore.

And the question. It's just too broad.

Frankly I've found the Panasonic MH12210's pretty shit.

They've lost 40% of their marked capacity in 3 years of light use

6:54 PM

candlepowerforums.com/vb/… is one self discharge test of one unprotected (no curcuit stuff) cell item. That is very representative of any really good fresh cell li-ion battery stored in fridge temps or stored in room temps of 65-80*f as i have seen here. A "good" cell has a very low self discharge.

The protection curcuits instead have varied from pretty high drains that would take the battery down in less than a year, or even faster for some junk i have applied. To not changing the percieved soc over more than a year.

so a li-ion cell itself should not be high self discharge, although once they are internally failing, they will certannly self discharge much faster. A "battery" (assembly with protection) can vary how much it "Self-Discharges" although self-discharge was originally trying to refer to the cell chemistry junk, not added drains.

This all gets very complicated as li-ion can be determined the SOC by the voltage, but the voltage is never the whole picture, as the cell resistance , the rate the chemicals change state, and the actual capacity would have to be additionally tested , because it is still "loosing enthropy and headed into chaos" :-)

More complicated still is everybody has posted a different opinion, and different charts (both projected and real) , because no 2 cells are alike :-) mostly referring to different manufactures and different dates of manufacture, and different small changes in the chemistry.

My most prized cells were of the LGs of 4 different capacity sizes, known to be real not clones, all worked great for years. The last incarnation of LG which is a high capacity higher voltage cell, did not fare so well. Again there was still a high similarity in degredation from the cells that just sit and wait at storage charges, and the ones I really used (correctally) .

Then again , I have been testing a odd charging method for decades , that was discussed long ago in a university experiment. I have spent years testing the mythos of the "special" charging routine for my own purposes only. While i should submit 20 pages of data from my findings (I didnt record), none of it really meant crap, when. . .

A) all the batteries eventually died over much time
B) each of the different cells and types tested varied so much it would look like scatter charts
C) Cheap (often china) stuff varies from pure garbage to many prismatics working ok
D) who knows what your going to buy today ? because it sure wont be what i tested for years.

7:22 PM

oh, wow

It works

@Zacharee1 What works?

@NathanOsman's userscript

It adds an "is typing" feature

Seth

@Zacharee1 I don't think he wanted it publicly aired until he was ready.

It is publicly aired though

Seth

now.

7:25 PM

hmm

-_-

Tom Wijsman

8:27 PM

@JourneymanGeek: Any progress on the case? Meanwhile...

> Your complaint submission has been sent to the server for processing.

... and another box of popcorn. :)