Deo

Hint: Netrunner has some weird interactions too.

Or you could try branching out to other board games

So, do you people play some boardgames online?

The merging of worlds hath begun, as was foretold in the prophecy of End Days

@CollinB The beatings will continue until morale improves

It isn't dead. It's merely in a coma.

Has anyone played Arkham LCG?

You make it sound like those conserns are some made-up nonsense. Don't you agree that chess as is has problems?

I'm not telling anybody to play one version or another. I'm just telling that there is different option.

If you view chess from perspective of pure strategy game, then memorizing openings is a hurdle one need to overcome in order to get to the strategy. It is not the only possible view, ofcource.

Memorizing openings IS a problem

I'm not aiming to change tournament chess scene. All I say is that chess as is has problems and there are alternatives. Anyone is free to play whatever version they like most. Personally, if I want to play chess, I'd go with fisherandom, in the internet era it's not that hard to find opponents for whatever version you prefer.

Look, I don't understand what we arguing about anymore. You don't agree that there are problems with chess as is? You don't like this particular alternative? If latter, than it's up to taste, anyone can play what they want. If it's former, well, if Bobby Fisher doesn't convince you, I can't either.

Chess been around for several thousand years, expecting it to be gone in 20 is just silly.

It is as much chess as chess puzzles. The point of Fisherandom is to have the same game, just with more game in it.

There is already a fix - fisherandom chess. And it has nothing to do with the clock.

Having to memorize them in the first place is the core of the problem. It doesn't make game more interesting, it adds a lot of overhead to get into the game, it is just not fun (for many people).

See, that's exactly the problem. You have to do your chores before you can get to actual game. It doesn't have to be like that.

If you play MtG draft it's still MtG.

Nevermind. I just value the process of playing chess more than specific layout. If you play with different layouts/situations, you learn the game. If you play with specific layout, you learn that specific layout.

But it is not the same position! OMG! If you ask someone to play chess and do this, they will call you out because it's NOT CHESS!

If you decide to play Fisherandom chess and happen to get classic chess position, would you be playing chess?

When you calculate speed by default you use Newton's formulas, but they are actually subset of relativistic theory.

It has a strong default option, that's all.

Chess doesn't need to either

Look, let's talk about racing. You can have some specific track on which some prestigious championship is held, but you can race on many different tracks and it still will be racing. The process is the same. I don't care about specific track, I care about the process.

How is that different? It takes same set of skills.

@murgatroid99 Okay, not many, but several positions are attainable. Do you need exact number? What is your point anyway?

@murgatroid99 Some positions in fisherandom are reachable from normal start. One of them IS the classic starting layout.

@murgatroid99 I guess "chess study" is correct english term. Some predetermined position that players start playing from. It's a type of chess puzzle/problems

As you describe it, classic chess are started to be played from some opening position selected mutually by both players.

@murgatroid99 It is not classic chess, but it is still as much chess as, say, playing etudes. If you know how to play one you'll know how to play another

@JoeW That is exactly the issue. Same haunt can have wildly different conditions and they are often strongly favor one or another side. Where do we need to go? Oh, that room that we happen to be in already?

@JoeW From my experience, Resistance (vanilla) was pretty even. Saboteur 1 is biased towards diggers if they play as team, but it has incentive for them to play slefishly (which many groups overlook). And it's played over several rounds with shifting teams.

@murgatroid99 That's just semantics. Sort array of N elements or sort array of N+1 elements. Different tasks?

It has same rules, same pieces, same board. The only thing that's different is starting layout

How is that a different game? Deterministic games being solved or partially solved with time is a known problem and fisherandom was designed to address exactly this issue without changing the game itself.

@murgatroid99 But you can. Have you heard of Fisherandom chess?

Say, in Love Letter it's not rare that cards you get at some point result in 100% chance of you being elliminated from the round. But it's single round that lasts, like, 2 minutes. I can see people getting upset if something like that happens in hour long game.

@JoeW All those rely on group dynamics and not that unbalanced (at least the ones I played). I'm talking about situations where all players have clear goals, but some of them just happen to have virtually zero chance at it.

There're some decision points, but not that many. And if we speaking about just memorizing them, there are no real base for decisions either

@murgatroid99 The one you know the best, clearly.

@murgatroid99 Why is that? If there is no opening history, each player makes moves just based on their own judgement. It doens't have to be perfect, but they strategise right away. Where's strategy in going through motions of memorized opening?

@murgatroid99 For a pure strategic game it should be unnecessary. As is memorizing openings is clearly needed.

@murgatroid99 I don't have problem with studiying openings. But need to memorize them in order to play competitively is just unnecessary overhead.

Also, there is a difference between using your own experience and blindly following memorized moves.

@Rainbolt Did you understand my point about why settle for remainder of the game if you can have the whole game as strategy?

@JoeW Can you give some examples?

Also, EH is a coop, occasional difficulty quirks doesn't bother me that much. But when playing against other person gaining random game-deciding advantage or disadvantage feels much more unfair.

@JoeW as I said, I don't have examples from personal experience, but it's not very hard to find some. I have experience with Eldritch Horror, another story-driven game with a lot of random elements, and all those unpredictable moving parts produce some bizzare, deadly or too easy situations. From the looks of it, it's even moreso in Betrayal.