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Marc

 Protestant deception

To discuss the relevancy of the Catholic Church
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 14:45
There is no substance here, but how you feel.

I don't deny you your beliefs, I simply can't see a consistent reasonable rationale for having them except to make "you" or the person who believes it, happy in their own egos. There are elements in your theology that have gaps. As there are in Protestant mainline theology which more and more people, who care and do the work, are able to see.
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 14:42
You don't believe Paul is Scripture, but continue to use Paul to convince me of your position. Please use your own standard to make your case.

There are always people who are trying to create their own versions of Christianity, the Judaizers, the Nicolaitans, the Donatist, the Lutherans the Calvinists and the Evangelicals in our day, it is very possible that John was referring to another false apostle in his day and very possible he was referring to the same movement.
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 14:39
Modernity
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 14:38
Now I know that the word used there is Pneuma and not the word Psyche. But the translation as it is used in modern Science to refer to the human psyche was not the original unscientific use. The original use, in the Greek language, was used to refer to the spirit which animates the Bible. I understand that you do not believe this, but you have to admit, that the original scripture writers of the time, meant SOUL.
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 14:34
@anonymouswho Andra Yates was a crazy person.

Because you don't Beleive in a Soul. Even though the Hebrew route word comes from Pneuma, like Pneumatics, The Greek allows you to say "Psyche" and not Soul. Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the PSYCHE says to the Churches?
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:32
Please look into Linguistic Hermeneutics and Linguistic Hyperbole. Understanding the culture of the 1st century and earlier, may help you understand that which is actually being transmitted in the scriptures. This is a constant problem with many Christian Pastors, a monumental failure to understand the semetic aspects of language and culture of the Gospel writers. Matthew was not talking about the "PSYCHE" of individuals.
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:26
The Nicolaitans practiced things like cult prostitution, and other things found to be heretical. Liars are those who teach what was not passed down.
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:25
apostles of Christ, the Nicolaitans,
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:23
Saint John the Evangelist was dealing with a group of individuals claiming to be disciples of
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:22
exaggerating?
Marc
Oct 30, 2018 12:21
@anonymouswho I can't find any definition of ψυχὴν that indicates it to mean "psyche".

Also, when Christ tells us "it would be better to lose one of our members" in Matthew 5:27-30, I think he was serious. I think he actually means it. From the perspective of those Christian sects, 99.9% of which believe in an eternal hell, consider those words. Would it be better to lose an eye or go to hell for all eternity? Now I know that universalist has a different definition of eternity, but take this in the context of orthodox Christianity. Was he
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 13:13
Catholics, even Popes, and Bishops have not lived up to their Christian Calling. The teachings, the Objective Teachings of the Church, have not changed or been altered. you seem to be well read, read the fathers of the Church, of the earliest Christians and see if you find universalism in there.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 13:11
lastly, in the Catholic Church, we are called to conform ourselves to Yeshua, not create a Yeshua that conforms to ourselves. This has been the way from the beginning, There are in the last 2000 years, some individuals in the Church or even situations in the Church where
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 13:06
Being Catholic is not easy, in fact, it is very difficult, our standard is Christ. We are called to suffer for Christ. It is not easy to see, and I completely understand the desire to deny the teachings of the Church, but they are sound if you see them through the lens of the Cross.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 13:06
We are called as Catholics to accept those things that have always been in the Church. That Christ is God, the God is One but of 3 Persons. That we are called to sanctity in Christ and we must persevere in that sanctity until the Particular Judgement.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 13:02
a stepping stone to disbelief. First, you question the bible, which for many Christians is the word of God and all you need. after doing this, you start questioning what your denomination, for example, might teach, because you are confused. Yet still have a desire to believe in something, you search and search for a belief system that lets you find comfort in your own skin.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:59
These situations could be addressed. They are, however, a sidetrack, the arguments themselves brought to us by the unbelievers are designed to confuse us, to lead us away from Orthodox Christianity in large and eventually, by secular reasoning, lead us away from God altogether. I do understand how such arguments would lead you to Universalism, it is
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:53
Jephthah and the destruction of the Amalekites are arguments often brought to a Christian by Atheists and professed Agnostics. The arguments being, Jephthah killed his own daughter (he would not) and that the destruction of women and Children ordered by God makes God something other than all Good, but in fact, he would be monstrous.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:48
Again side tracked.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:47
There is a clear steering away from the enemy of the Muslims, the Jews and additionally a steering away from Yeshua as the Quran inserts a conversation between Mohomed and Jesus posthumously denying the claims of the Prophet Yeshua, yet offering little or no other information concerning his ministry.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:44
It is easy to get sidetracked into the teaching of the Quran or that of Judaism. The Objective truths of Judaism however, are valid.

Quickly, when we read the Quran, we see clearly that Mohamad id is given special license by virtue of being the Prophet. The belief system stems from the Ishmaelites, the son of Haggar. Here the Muslims vaguely reference the Old Testament Scriptures that we have from Judaism,
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 12:38
Mathew 10:28 Where do you see "Mental Anguish" in Matthew 10:28?
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:41
Even Christ feared the killing of the Body.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:40
Where do you see in Matthew 10:28, that men should not fear death? Why wouldn't you interpret that passage to mean that God controls a fate worse than physical death? Which is what it suggests by mentioning A. Men who kill the Body. And B. God who can kill the body and the Soul?
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:33
The first thing a subjective theology needs to do is discredit objective theology. The very teachings that have been from the begining.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:32
Thomas Aquinas did not change the teaching of the Church, he worked to explain to them when there was no real understanding, he did not change what was taught.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:31
Please look closer into the life of Thomas Aquinas, you will see that he walked away from his wealth and became a Dominican, the primary focus of the Dominican order is to prevent heresy. Which you are accusing him of.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:22
"I interpret Matthew 10:28 to mean.." Your interpretation is subjective.

To your suggestion that I did not look into Islam, I have, extensively, I even own a copy of the Quran. It was easy to disregard the teachings of the Muslims because those teachings lack continuity, rely heavily on the concerns of nationalism and the truth of the religion is that it is used to control the ignorant.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:15
There seems to be a failure to understand Subjectivity and objectivity. Objective truths are those things that "Are". Subjective truths are those things that are according to individuals. Objective Truths do not Change, they may be better understood, but never changed.
Marc
Oct 29, 2018 05:13
@anonymouswho The Church does not teach that an ignorant man can not know God. That is actually opposite of the Church's teaching. We are not discussing, however, the knowledge of God. We are discussing the teaching of the early Church, here, whether universalism was taught in the early Church.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 14:05
What is your interpretation of Matthew 10:28
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 14:04
Universalist take this idea of election, of salvation of self, one step further than the mainline Protestants do. They simply say that all will be drawn to Christ and will not be punished in Hell.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 14:03
This continues today. I can give you many examples of this subjective distortion. You don't usually hear Protestants, no matter what they teach, suggesting that in any way or possibility will they not go to heaven or any version of post-life you may consider valid.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 14:01
The desire to have "Assurance of Salvation" was the driving force behind Sola Fide and the Protestant movements. The driving force behind this 15th-century creation was the development of the printing press, the ability to persuade un-educated populations who did not wish, by virtue of the nature of their flesh, to deny themselves any earthly pleasures.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:58
when his interpretations were challenged and Calvin even more so, forbid the laity from interpreting scripture, leaving interpretation to himself. When his interpretation was challenged, accusations of heresy were made and men were put to death.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:56
Promises of salvation to those who believe the bible as their authority. Interestingly enough, unlike many reformers of today and similar to the teaching of Luther, both Calvin and Luther believed themselves to be the interpreters of Scripture. Luther Protested
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:55
because he struggled with Sin, Calvin, had a strong personality and when Luther breached the Authority of the Church (understandably considering the abuses of some) Calvin used the opportunity with his brilliance to use the bible to create a community, denouncing the authority of the Church and making promises.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:55
The idea that it is our own subjective understanding that guides us. This is the reason for such division and perversion in Christianity. There is a desire for individuals to be saved, Luther wanted an easier way,
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:50
I have tried to explain it to you with the example of my evangelical friend, it is a really difficult thing to bring to the forefront of a person mind.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:50
The Lord also warns us of those coming in their own names, not having been sent by the father, who some would fallow without question. This was a warning to not deviate from the teachings of Christ, a warning of Subjectiveness found so abundantly outside the teaching of the Chruch. Just look how often you use "I Believe" "I don't believe" "I have no issues" "I accept only these scriptures" Subjectiveness leads to distortion of the word of God.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:45
I think you meant John 12:49 and John 5:43. Christ here is speaking after revealing himself to the Jews, who because he claimed to be equal with God, was persecuted by the Jews. In no way, does the Catholic Church teach that Jesus is not equal with the Father in heaven, just as the Scripture says, the Old Testament Scriptures speak of him, God coming in the flesh, and Jesus confirms that reality.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:34
@anonymouswho Are you suggesting that the Catholic Church teaches dogmatically or by it magisterium that it is ok in some way for our clergy to abuse the laity? Christ tells us that false shepherds will enter the Church and so it has come to pass, not only now but in the last 2000 years. Christ also tells us that the Devil will not overcome the Church, which for the last 2000 years, Christ has kept his promise and it has not.
Marc
Oct 28, 2018 13:27
@curiousdannii Reformed Circles are Those denominations that accept certain teachings of the John Calvin. Reformed Baptist, like James White, R.C. Sproul, strict Calvinist, and a variety of Evangelical self-professed Bible-believing Churches that accept ideas put forward by some or all of the original teachings of Calvin where they mesh with the culture they were formed.
Marc
Oct 27, 2018 13:15
Mathew 23:8 has to do with Christ being our Teacher. It is speaking of his example, calling us to humility and servitude for the leaders of our Church, the Guardians of our Souls, as Hebrews 13:17-18. Christ is talking to the apostles and leaders of the Chruch. Using himself as an example, he is explaining how the way to lead the Sheep, is to serve them in humility and not to power over them.
Marc
Oct 27, 2018 13:10
You have given me 2 scriptures, Scriptures which you have assigned meaning to which I am sure that you have fit nicely into your subjective understanding. Take 1 John 2:27 and combine it with 1 John 2:24. Does it continue to have the same meaning as if you take it on its own?
Marc
Oct 27, 2018 13:03
@curiousdannii This discussion is not about reformed theology, although my comments may have referenced the "sovereignty of God" discussions or R.C. Sproul, and his interpretations explaining that "Elect" of God. It is in no way a detailed explanation of reformed theology. I have many comments about reformed theology, one especially being how it does not resemble the theology put for by Calvin, in fact, Calvin would reject it.
Marc
Oct 25, 2018 17:18
@anonymouswho I'm a Catholic, I believe also that Yeshua was a human from a human parent. Please note the distinction.
Marc
Oct 25, 2018 17:15
In my example to you, I pointed out my evangelicals need to find a Church that conforms to what he wants to believe. It is so difficult to overcome this lack of humility. He started from the End and fit the pieces to his liking.
Marc
Oct 25, 2018 17:13
Truth" is that it has little or nothing to do with what "I" believe. Truth is not subject to me in any way shape or form.
Marc
Oct 25, 2018 17:13
I wonder if, on a sidebar, you would address the subjectivity of your position. Without exception when I speak with any protestant, they put forward what I like to call, their own doctrinal filter. "I believe this, I don't believe that, King James translation only. etc etc .) The difference between Catholic School of Thought and subjective Christianity where the individual decides what is "