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7:18 AM
@StephenHarris I don't entirely agree there, you see my intention is that IF I am writing a plugin and I want to declare and render a form on my plugin settings page then I can do so and specify through configurable parameters whether a field value is intended for the Metadata API, Options API, or any other API function that processes form input for use through out the site including any standard post fields (title, content, excerpt) but also terms, and user data (meta or otherwise).
@StephenHarris ...additionally you can specify a form field as a standard field, not processed by any internal WP functions mentioned above, but by your own processing logic and or third party API logic (i.e. posting to another API like FB, MailChimp, Twitter, whatever...). In terms of markup, well I'm thinking about that too. Through parameters, you can wrap fields with additional markup, so if it's "poetry" you want, it's poetry you get.
...also the Form API is comprised of separated concerns, the Field API itself is a drop in library so you can use it outside of WP. The rest... well that's specific to WP and its internal processes.
8:03 AM
@StephenHarris no. 100% GPL-compatible everything only.
8:18 AM
@userabuser I'm not saying you need to tie it to a particular (Settings, widget, etc) API - there isn't one beyond just giving your fields the appropriate name. I meant inconsistency in mark-up. But I suppose giving it a template telling it how to wrap the field and label would be a good idea...
@Rarst Yeah perhaps better not mention anything. That plug-in has great reviews and its useful for end users to have a vast stock of default icons... even if they're aren't GPL...
8:32 AM
there are actually plenty of CC and other incompatible stuff and was worse before they allowed GPLv3-compatible... its political, not practical. if you use that plugin you could privately contact developer and let him know he is one email by anyone away from getting it closed
@Rarst Now you're making me sound like some sort of WP-Mafia. "Lovely you plug-in you've got here... shame if something were to happen to it..."
that would be Matt
1 hour later…
9:52 AM
Didn't know that Automattic is part of Audrey
I think that Automattic owns Audry
as far as I know Matt owns both, they are otherwise not interconnected
Yeah, I think you're right; must just be something I read on some misinformation site
it's a mess, a lot of people are confused about it
forgot Audrey, old drawing during relevant bout of confusion drama on twitter
10:08 AM
Look at the Audrey page - it lists all companies owned by it, right? First in the list (on the bottom) is Automattic.
@kaiser I don't think Audrey Capital even existed when Automattic was created, that simply shows Matt's personal track
So … Audrey founded Automattic, or Automattic founded Audrey, or they both founded themselves
Automattic was first, so I guess it owns Audrey
@Rarst Guess there's a lot of shuffling in his portfolio. Think they (his lawyers) just moved Automattic there.
that's just a list on a web page, not financial documentation :)
@Rarst :)
10:14 AM
be happy that everything Matt splurges on at kickstarter is not included :)
10:27 AM
Everybody has read rotten WordPress already?
@kaiser of course :) hysterics detrimental to the points as usual
> things start to get serious, because we are talking thousands of peoples livelihoods here, we’re talking about the need for a level playing field, we’re talking about the danger of anti-competitive practices to that, and we’re especially talking about the danger of power, because you know what they say about power.
@toscho Use your god mode wisely ;)
> With great power comes great responsibility
too many open projects currently
10:32 AM
...this is the era for forkology. It will happen.
I just discovered phpdoc.wordpress.org
@toscho Then do it like @StephenHarris and me do it: Move one under the WCM umbrella and ask for participation. :)
that’s not possible for most of my projects
Could you please stop arguing against it and start over with some more euphoric sentences?
@toscho knew that... think they are upgarding to modern phpdocumentor version this century? :)
10:43 AM
I have known about that for ages, but I didn't even register it was the same phpdocumentor I use, just an ancient version
I used xref briefly when on Notepad++ period, no need with real IDE
these docs are used on wp-admin/plugin-editor.php
@toscho ...ouch
write a plugin that replaces this with a qp look-up
I'm getting sick of reading posts about the new 3.6 post format support
10:48 AM
@toscho for what?
bugged Siobhan about it. I should make most use out of that connection before she stops talking to me :)
@kaiser look up functions used in the currently edited file
I just searched the file and couldn't find anything for phpdoc
@kaiser Documentation: [dropdown] Lookup
it pipes it through some api URL
'http://api.wordpress.org/core/handbook/1.0/?function=' + escape( jQuery( '#docs-list' ).val() ) + '&locale=en_US&version=3.5.1&redirect=true'
wp_doc_link_parse()? Wasn't that the exact function I pushed you at some days ago?
10:54 AM
find . -type d -print0 | xargs -0 du -s | sort -n | tail -10 | cut -f2 | xargs -I{} du -sh {}
30M	./plugins/hybrid-web-cluster-reseller-integration
30M	./plugins/ipccp
31M	./plugins/unprintable-blog
32M	./plugins/zend-framework
32M	./plugins/read-offline
33M	./plugins/wp-zff-zend-framework-full
35M	./plugins/wpide
47M	./plugins/macme
67M	./plugins/scripturelog
9.8G	.
@Wyck finally executed that command
@kaiser days ago? I am routinely fuzzy beyond last night :)
@Rarst All you have to do is replacing that ugly onclick handler
@TomJNowell I called the scriptures one... also need to work on Slurp
 if ( '' != jQuery('#docs-list').val() ) { window.open( 'http://api.wordpress.org/core/handbook/1.0/?function=' + escape( jQuery( '#docs-list' ).val() ) + '&amp;locale=<?php echo urlencode( get_locale() ) ?>&amp;version=<?php echo urlencode( $wp_version ) ?>&amp;redirect=true'); }
what a mess...
and escape() is deprecated
Oh, I could hit 44444 today!
10:56 AM
one 4 too many...
what what? one 4 too many...
@bungeshea History is always re-written by the winners.
11:39 AM
Great. WordPress tells me to update a plugin. I click update, realize it's a git sourced repo. WordPress fails to update with "failed with removing the old files". I check the folder: empty. nonono
update of death. it's for your own good. you wouldn't want to install some pesky plugin from third party source, would you?
no, surely not. at least it's my install, why would it be my decision?
remember that "decisions, not oprions"? it's decisions for you, not by you
12:07 PM
still thinking about TLC Transients and dependency injection container... maybe I should just pass class name through container? I don't see clean way to manufacture objects (with constructor arguments) on demand with it :\
or more precisely I see the way, but not how to pass that way into a n object, rather than use top level app logic
or I should just cobble some kind of Factory...
Just came to know today that reCaptcha is using as a crowdsourcing service to digitise books. Mind = Blown http://www.google.com/recaptcha/learnmore
See conversation. Any suggestions?
@StephenHarris won't work obvisouly, they use word multiple times to prevent that. you won't be able to coordinate statistically enough to override instance of word
@toscho any opinion on factories for objects?
@Rarst Of course it won't work :) unless you have over half the captcha-using people participating...
@Rarst want to look at my basic-basic role manager? It's DI concept, but overall very roughly and not sure about anything in there. It does what I need, but not sure if it's best type of concept and would scale and interact nicely with View layer.
@kaiser pity my brain, I need to get things down with my own stuff at least some...
12:18 PM
@Rarst I'm not asking you for guidance, idea, concept or whatever. Just want to offer it to you so you can compare our stuff and maybe find some improvement on top of it.
@Rarst use it, when you need it
@kaiser I thought you are using different container? I am on Pimple right now
@toscho I have multiple specialized cache classes which need multiple instances of TLC Transient (or subclass of), trying to neatly stuff it all into DI container
this is too vague
@toscho there is non-vauge code available to go with it :) bitbucket.org/Rarst/fragment-cache/src
essentially to decouple this part from using wrapper function bitbucket.org/Rarst/fragment-cache/src/tip/php/…
@Rarst no PSR0 stuff. PHP 5.2 WP style DI container. Controller fills factory with dependencies. Factory then handles interaction based on task with injected classes.
And I removed every single abstract and extends
12:23 PM
> PHP 5.2 WP style DI container
man, that sounds scary :)
source link?..
Isn't as much as you think. Give me your mail address, it's not public.
5 mins
@Rarst sorry, no idea. my head is full with other stuff
@toscho no worries :) maybe someone tells me brilliant solution sooner or later...
12:30 PM
@kaiser can I see your role manager too?
@userabuser @Rarst sent. It's actually not role manager. Just thing that adds roles and maps capabilities. But built to maybe become role manager in the future.
@kaiser ...damn. every android device screamed in alert as shared file arrived. didn't know they do that :)
He! Maybe Android is afraid of PHP 5.2 WP style DI container as well :)
I was once on a work call and one of clients started to rearrange our shared calendar entry back and forth :) queue half a minute of devices crying for attention :)
Oh. Fails during activation - need to fix that :)
12:37 PM
Q: Is the E-cat for real?

AlexDoes this thing really do what they say? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhvD4KuAEmo If it does, it looks like this will probably be the biggest breaktrough in science ever :)

@kaiser this doesn't looks like DI container... this looks like bootstrap logic creating anonymous (?) factory
@Rarst Why anonymous factory?
because it's new into nothingness?
new ... not assigned to variable, just cretad and lost
12:45 PM
True for created and lost. Not true for rest. As I said: It's not final product, just half baked cake. It's just base wrapper with spread logic and factory in between. Concept that should be able to extend into whatever is needed without being dependent on any other part.
yeah, I get that it aims at, it just doesn't seem to be getting there via specific DI container pattern
right. WP style :D
stop making things ring
btw: resent so it works.
@Rarst turn off the annoyance and you're fine :)
silence is peachy
12:51 PM
@kaiser had you looked at Fragment Cache yet?
@Rarst yeah. one abstract class only?
too many? not enough? :)
oh. overseen the php folder :P ... BitBuckets styles are ... rough
1:38 PM
@TomJNowell interesting, scripture still takes the cake for size, how long did that command take to plow through all plugins
@Wyck quite a while, ended up disconnecting with broken pipe tho as it was running in the background so I cant be sure if it was 20 minutes or 20 hours
1:51 PM
how to I add touch sensitivity for jquery slider? any plugin?
Hmmm i think I've muddled myself, if I have an ajax API to pull log data for a chart, and I want to secure it, the check for logged in is enough? Or are nonces necessary?
look at jquerymobile.com
hmmm but then what do I pass in for my nonces
@TomJNowell logged in enough, nonce verifies intent, not access
1:53 PM
valid nonce should not matter without log in access to data, but logged in access should not allow destructive actions without valid nonce
I was thinking more if site X has charts, but site Y uses the authenticated session to steal data
it's not amazingly sensitive data but some people are tetchy about that stuff
how would site Y do that? are sites sharing login session somehow?
hmmm =/
2:09 PM
but really talk to someone with a clue about XSS if you are concerned
I think you're talking about CSRF , have not been following
that too :)
2:40 PM
I think I've hit a new low for most frustrating work ever, making a responsive <table> for email clients
Yeah, htanks , however I would still prefer to make fast corrections and changes via the database editor like Heidi or even phpmyadmin e.g. for unsetting cron for plugins etc. Anyway, thanks for your answer. — Derfder 3 hours ago
Did someone troll @toscho ? ;)
3:03 PM
moved VPS to SSD node, did not explode.
but did it get faster?
and does it blend?
it's been like twenty minutes :) will see how (if) stats change in next day
and 120MB more RAM!
Three more upvotes today, and I will spend another bounty.
3:21 PM
wow... plugin update went from "ok, let me thiiiiink about this..." to "boom! done"
@Rarst WordPress core update on uberspace.de: never more than three seconds.
should time a DirectoryIterator and see how many x faster it is
there was noticeable pause for couple second before, now I just clicked and it was instantly done
PHP per Fast-CGI or as module?
3:29 PM
@Rarst Please go and nag at GitHub WordPress repo for composer.json file
@kaiser ehm, why?..
just for ...
I opened trac ticket for it, that's quite enough effort wasted :)
P) pirate smile
3:58 PM
speaking of XSS and since no one takes it seriously (wordpress doesn't) blog.whitehatsec.com/interview-with-a-blackhat-part-1/…
so anyone here done a customer project on github.com/jarednova/timber yet?
@lkraav what are we, nuts? :)
{ > < ..
oh. so those that did, arent here anymore to talk about it huh
to be clear no offence meant, but doing client project on someone in-house project (that already seen one major rewrite) that aims to bolt on WP things that WP is very poorly suited to work with... :)
@Wyck meaning? :)
4:10 PM
meaning { is greater than < because it looks better..rubbish
they actually say that in the readme
yeah, that's superficial pretty much
I would love to see WP with Twig, but it's simply not happening with current APIs and since WP will never deprecate APIs...
Anyone got an idea how to update git itself via the CLI?
@kaiser wildly depends on OS and how it was installed?..
apt-get update git would be one geuss
or upgrade or just install
Linux version 2.6.18-274.7.1.el5.028stab095.1 (root@rhel5-build-x64) (gcc version 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)) #1 SMP Mon Oct 24 20:49:24 MSD 2011
4:20 PM
I think that uses yum
ya try yum install git
yum = command not found
try rpm
rpm -i git
Command not found
look around the filesystem to find out what package manager it's using, maybe in /var/lib
4:26 PM
@Rarst do you have any plans to tinker with Twig in your Symfony explorations outside of Wordpress?
@bosco probably, but I don't have use cases at the moment. my local toys are currently on Silex and Mustache
@kaiser here is a list of possibilities, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
Just got told "it's a managed server" ... Grrrr!
> Sorry, user **** may not run sudo on *****
@kaiser then get support to update it
so it' a shared host or media temple
4:28 PM
@kaiser :( tradgedies
Managed VPS - not mine
@Rarst Colleague pinged them...
Managed vps is a fancy word for shared hosting in some cases
Feels like that...
depends on how much it costs :) I swear by mine
Can't choose on this one. Colleague made decision, we now have to stick with it :P
4:30 PM
@Rarst but liquidweb allow you to sudo your own box
@Wyck of course, that's not mutually exclusive with "managed" service
ya exactly media temple does not allow it in their grid vps for example
doesn't seem SSD had much effect on response time, probably Apache chows the difference. need to update Apache and PHP next, wonder why WHM says Apache 2.4 is experimental, been out for a while and at 2.4.4 already
I wish hosts started offering nginx... LiquidWeb had recently started to offer LiteSpeed but for dedicated at $35 per server core...
I have to believe that hosts will start offering nginx soon enough given the vast resource advantage
4:46 PM
There are a few bundled like lamp, for nginx-phpfpm which makes intalling easier, have not tried any
well, it's been out for a while... it will take as good support from whm/cpanel and retraining staff to start offering it. and extra support work on managed since things (like WordPress) typically offered with Apache instructions first
this one looks neat centminmod.com
Ok. I already - officially - hate the server and the host...
@Rarst fair enough... way to crush my dreams :/
@kaiser migration a possibility?
@bosco surely not. we're at setup level ... :P
but I'm close to secretly getting a new server and just setting stuff up.
much too impatient for this
4:55 PM
@bosco can always do it yourself :) myself I am windows person so linux stuff is tough one me :\
@kaiser heh, sneaky. "By the way, I trashed your server and substituted my own."
@kaiser QP footer has my liquidweb referral link :) helps keep it running ;)
@Rarst true true - probably not a bad thing to learn. And then teach :)
@bosco there is only so much time in life... have to prioritize... for example I could really use some JS chops :\
I myself am a windows guy, but I can't live without about three different virtual linux systems stacked in virtualbox at any given time O.o
4:59 PM
@Wyck PHP 5.3?..
@Rarst aye I'd like to dig into the Node beast at some point, but beyond jQuery and fairly basic I'm iffy, what with all the funky prototyping and whatnot.
@bosco I can get Linux up and running (heck, I did that when Pentium was a new thing), I just don't like it very much and figuring out all the small things takes too much time
@bosco with JS I am having trouble jumping from theory to practically applicable. unlike PHP trying to just tweak something a bit looks like herding pure chaos
@Rarst I feel you. Thus why I spend most of my time in my Windows host - much quicker to get things done! But the customization possibilities of linux enthrall me :) . Finding the time to actually PURSUE them, however, is another matter
@Rarst hahaha. "Chaos Herder". I dig your wording there
@Rarst not that stupid, but I'd switch to uberspace - no referral links there. those guys don't need that :)
@kaiser do you want QP to fail? do you? :)
5:04 PM
@Rarst evolve, mate! evolve and the sky is the limit! :)
me evolving does little to reduce hosting bill :)
uberspace has nice pricing scheme. starting at $1 á month, recommended is $5 - rest up to you. only drawback (not for me that much): only in German.
Apart from the obvious PHP compatibility issues, anyone have thoughts on using actual PHP namespaces for namespacing plugins as opposed to prefixing function/class names?
@bosco ehm, just do it?.. my latest plugins are namespaced. and Composer packages :)
@Rarst well alright, that was pretty much what I was looking for - a green light :)
just wasn't sure if there was anything else I should take into consideration before I dove in :D
5:22 PM
digitalocean has ssd for 5$ a month wanted to try them when I have time
@bosco I would probably make some pretty warning for official repo plugin if user attempts to install on 5.2, but I am fed up with official repo, so...
5:50 PM
wtf is Twoo ? getting more and more "invitations" from there.
no idea
@kaiser A quick google shows it spams friends lists
hey buddy, I am a newbie.I want to ask something.wordpress.stackexchange.com/questions/100366/… i edited this topic answer because it uses update_usermeta function of WordPress which is depricated but my edits not acceted. i comment their.sorry for my english but is their anything you can do to remove depricated function from answer.again sorry for my bad english (I don't know how use chat guide me if i'm doing wrong)
@Ravs it seems your edit was rejected since it was worded like a comment (which should be a comment). in such case it would be more suitable to correct code itself, rather than use edit for commentary change
also since the code seems to come from the question, editing it in ways unrelated to question might be confusing to asker
6:08 PM
tell me onething i go for change in question because he is using depriceted function or for answer but it is not a right thing that you delete right edit( as my deleted ).
sorry for bad english
your edit wasn't technically "deleted", it was reviewed by two different users and they both judged to "reject" it
6:23 PM
Alright, I understand now :) I'm a newbie and not very familiar with how things work at stackexachange. I'm learning as days pass.. Earlier, my comments were edited and that's why I thought that I should do that here too..
Now, I will take care of it. Thanks for all your support. :)
1 hour later…
what is the max zoom level in google map api? can't seem to find it.. looking through doc
@Sisir afaik 4 or 6 to 23, but in some cases you can manually raise it up to 25
but just count the steps
okey.. so 6-23 is safer..
@toscho most of what a newbie needs is already answered.. that's really cool. But there need to be a warning message if a answer is more then a years old and didn't get reviewed.
@Sisir I don’t follow?
speaking of SO and WPSE.. I almost find answers for every problem I search for. But with time those questions gets outdated. So, its possible that a newbie uses outdated solutions.
example: now that WP have meta comment query there will be lots of awesome suff to do with comments and it won't involve custom query anymore. But a newbie could stumble upon a old answer that uses custom SQL.
7:53 PM
Oh, yes, but that’s not what that article is about. And you can always add new solutions to old questions. I do that sometimes.
It will be a challenge as time goes on, more and answers are given..
8:32 PM
@Sisir Post new answers, and we'll upvote the hell out of it and downvote the outdated ones :)
8:56 PM
Any of you notice we removed /extend/ from http://wordpress.org URLs? Figured there’d be more rejoicing. http://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/24389
@Rarst it redirects..
but does it update half a hundred damn bookmarks to plugins in my browser? no.
@Rarst did you try asking it nicely? Communication is key in any relationship, Rarst.
WordPress is not a relationship, it's a trap
9:15 PM
Well, some relationships are traps... In my case Wordpress looked all fast and clean and pretty and then I got involved, and the more I experienced with Wordpress the more I realized how twisted and broken it was on the inside.
But now I'm in too deep and I don't know if I could leave it if I tried.
welcome to the bottom of the trap
at least I'm not alone down here, I suppose.
I propose we rename the room to "Bottom of the Trap"
I guess Where humor doesn't work nails it.
Right after WordPress nailed you.
that's tag line, I mean room name. I have no idea where StopPress even came from
9:26 PM
Think that's from stop by and maybe some idea from Jan or Mike from back then...
@Rarst Go on. rename it.
"Bottom of the Trap: Where humor doesn't work." <- the implication being that you're left humorless after Wordpress repeatedly screws you over?
That seems to fit quite nicely.
I think it was Thomas McDonald who started it, but I see nothing on name in log of early days
Nov 2 '10 at 17:14, by EAMann
Just out of curiosity ... why is the room called "Stop Press"?
Nov 2 '10 at 17:14, by Thomas McDonald
Because it's what Mark called it when he imported it I believe
maybe let's some fun on meta with this? people could suggest and vote
I'll open one
@kaiser wait, on it already
@Rarst kkk
@Rarst Start the title with Vote!
9:38 PM
done, won't link since bot will post it anyway
if you are suggesting tagline please make it subheading
@Rarst please state that in the question if you didn't
just added
And as far as I remember the tagline was added/changed by @toscho - no community involved there.
you say toscho isn't community? :)
No, it's a community meta value.
good domain name ...
@Rarst Btw, already watched Gurren Lagann ?
9:57 PM
What you think of it?
good stuff, atypically sharp turns, hilariously overblown epic towards the end
The Jetpack developers found our site.
@Rarst not even half through but so far I really like it
heh, quite a vote fight on therapy suggestion
10:01 PM
@toscho finally I found a use for my downvote
@Rarst I bring the controversy :)
@kaiser why? it is good when they react to user problems
if( class_exists( 'Jetpack' ) && in_array( 'contact-form', Jetpack::get_active_modules() ) {}
Instead of explaining what happens and delivering a wrapped up function as Rodolfo did.
The above line of code will leave people confused. Nothing else.
There is no need to repeat the explanation. And he shows the new and the old way to fix it with a useful code example.
Pretty good, not just for a first answer.
okok. removed the downvote to get you off my back.
will find another use case for that vote.
10:08 PM
Q: Vote! The Great Chat Room Rename Project

RarstIt's been quite a while since our chat room started ( WordPress Answers Chat ) and it seems it was named near randomly Because it's what Mark called it when he imported it I believe Thomas McDonald I feel StopPress never quite had connection with community. Also *Press is overused and...

@anu have you seen edit to comment? Wictim
also maybe lose "group" as well?
@Rarst yes. although I think Wictim might be a bit too subtle :) Have shortened the rest though - was too wordy. you're right
ok, I like the "Wictim" but it's late here :) if I still like it tomorrow will definitely apply somewhere
"victim" is tad heavy...
we had some guy mistake StopPress for room about politics...
I originally was going to use Survivor instead...
10:24 PM
Wictim (noun, slang) - person who got too deep into WordPress and does not see a way out
@wyck ehm... too subtle... for this time zone at least :)
Killed colleagues WP install on server. Tried to git clone. git@ failing, git:// failing. https:// seems to work now. What a host...
is this better
@Wyck You mean catamaran? If so, I'd suggest still better than an inflatable
10:48 PM
Eclipse fails with auto-complete on Traits. :/
Can PHP Storm do that?
Trait Static_Access
	 * Plugin main instance.
	 * @type object
	protected static $instance = NULL;

	 * Access plugin instance. You can create further instances by calling
	 * the constructor directly.
	 * @wp-hook wp_loaded
	 * @return  object T5_Spam_Block
	public static function get_instance()
		if ( NULL === self::$instance )
			self::$instance = new self;

		return self::$instance;

class Trait_Test
	use Static_Access;

	public function test()
		print 'Pass.';

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