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2:12 AM
Is anybody home?
i'm in, for a little while at least
Oh... /me bowls.
I see all small on this netbook.
What do you think of that answer?
A: "when spring arrives"

C_PGrammatically it seems that 'arrived' is correct. But idiomatically 'arrives' should be correct to denote that spring has arrived now. Since the principal clause and the subordinate clause should agree in tense in this case, 'arrived' is applicable in any case, i.e. whether it is spring or fall d...

In other words, the answer is that "we will eat when mom arrives" means mom has arrived.
Also, it is not true the tenses must be the same.
It is never the same, in many sentences.
"if I were rich, I would live on Long Island."
@kiamlaluno those have the same tense
were/would are both subjunctive (past)
i don't think C_P's answer is quite right, but it's too late for me to think about it much right now
@JSBangs Fair enough. :-)
Still, the other example uses two different tenses.
@JSBangs By the way, Yoichi Oishi didn't learn to use the new tag you prepared for him. ;-)
2:32 AM
some people are so ingrateful
and now i'm looking at what i wrote and can't decide if ingrateful is actually a cromulent word
should it be ungrateful?
I think I shall become a hermit.
@Cerberus a good choice
Although my current behaviour may contradict this resolution, this world saddens me. Old things are being destroyed at a rapid pace...
@JSB: Thank you.
@Cerberus i'll second that
What is one to do?
The countryside is being pocked by ugly architecture; the Taliban have destroyed the greatest cultural treasure of Afghanistan...
The classical languages are engaged in a losing battle against the tide of educational functionalism, i.e. the idea that education should lead to commercial profit on the long term, as opposed to science for itself and Bildung...
2:45 AM
i, for one, do nothing. or rather, i have deliberately disconnected myself from much of the worldwide system and concentrate on improving my immediate environment
A wise choice. But how to handle frustration?
well, i took almost all political blogs out of my RSS reader, for one
and then i (just recently) moved out of the city and bought a big house in the country
How does that story work? I simply click on my choice and keep on reading?
2:47 AM
more or less
yeah, the only political-ish blogs that i read now are those that are very educational and not so argumentative, or very funny. or both
@JSB: Oh! But of the few old things we still possess, most are to found in the city...
(Very funny helps all right!)
@Cerberus which old things are those? here in america, at least, the cities are not very old
Hey I am at war.
who are you at war with?
@JSB: Sure what old buildings you have, what old orchestras, libraries, and societies, they shall be in the cities?
I don't know whom I am at war with yet.
It just says I am.
I won the war. Now I am attempting Utopia.
2:51 AM
@Cerberus old(er) buildings are in the cities. but old farm houses, old people, old lifestyles are likely to be found in the country.
(oh, you were referring to the story)
(Yes. Now I am at war again.)
@JSB: I suppose that is a good thing about the country, older politeness and country traditions. But what I like about old things is also their scent of civilisation, of continued tradition. Not that progress is bad; but it must not go too fast unless it has proved its worth.
(Now I am burning 10,000-year-old monasteries... it seems I didn't know myself as well as I thought.)
@Cerberus this is why i call myself a reactionary. it isn't the case that i necessarily oppose all change or support everything in the past, but i vehemently detest the idea of change for its own sake. i very much disbelieve in "progress"
@JSB: Oh! Now you have made me feel unradical. How come you disbelieve in progress generally? I see the old things falling as collateral damage: highly lamentable, but not quite enough reason to want to turn back time.
What bothers me is that much of this collateral damage seems unnecessary.
i don't necessarily want to turn back time, either. however, i don't believe that things generally get better, and i'm in no hurry to get to the future, nor do i think that it will necessarily be better than the past. sometimes things get better, and sometimes things get worse
more often they get better and worse at the same time, with some things improving and others deteriorating
the myth of "progress" is very widely believed these days, and it makes people overvalue new things and undervalue old things
which creates exactly what you were talking about: old things are destroyed that don't need to be destroyed, just so that new things can be promoted under the banner of progress
i should go to bed. it's getting later here.
let me know what you think of the story
@JSB: I agree that there are always things improving and things deteriorating. But consider, what would you prefer: the Afghan Buddhas still standing, but your child dying of a disease that could now be cured? Your homosexual daughter a miserable outcast? Fumbling among brittle manuscripts by candlelight, instead of Wikipedia?
(I have just been assassinated, then beheld the apocalypse.)
Good night!
3:08 AM
i have a few more seconds :)
i would honestly take the manuscripts by candlelight over the Wik
The manuscripts are certainly more aesthetically pleasing!
i like Wikipedia just fine, but i don't consider it as significant an achievement as some
But we can even have both the manuscripts and Wikipedia.
For a thousand quid you can buy a Medieval manuscript, perhaps a bit more.
i was about to say that. there is a common fallacy, present even in your comment, which suggests that all features of modern life must necessarily go together
Agreed! This fallacy is harmful.
3:10 AM
then it is resolved: let us have both hand-written manuscripts and modern medicine
good night (for reals, now)
Even so, I believe that, this fallacy reigning supreme, the total of things is still an improvement.
@JSB: OK, night!
6 hours later…
9:32 AM
@kiamlaluno You are right - there is no reason at all why the tenses of two clauses must be the same. "You will die because you disrespected me."; "You don't know what will happen to you", etc etc...
3 hours later…
12:30 PM
A: Gerund preceded by possessive pronoun (e.g. "He resents your being more popular than he is")

Gaer E.nonsense, your "less formal alternant" is merely a coy way of describing the vernacular; and, as most can deduce, the vernacular (the word, actually) owes its formation to the fact that 99.9999999+% of the english-speaking masses are unaware of so m a n y grammatical rules that a rationale wa...

1:01 PM
don't delete that answer
just downvote it into oblivion
Yes. And yes.
1:12 PM
It's not fun: the user's reputation is just 1.
i don't downvote for the purposes of dinging somebody's rep. i downvote for the pleasure of letting them know that they're wrong
If you really want to down vote that answer, then wait the user gets more reputation.
if he ever appears again
everything about that suggests he'll be a one-hit wonder
@JSBangs That is unfair: if I lose reputation to down vote, then also the user I down vote must lose something. ;-)
@kiamlaluno, at your rep level, the -1 for downvoting is hardly worth bothering about
1:15 PM
Pleasure is not the point, neither is rep. It's all about answer quality. Downvoting sends an important signal.
Q: A "murder" of crows?

SamI love the subset of collective nouns known as the terms of venery. These are collective nouns specific to a particular group of animals. Some of the more inventive examples are: a murder of crows, a crash of rhinos, a mischief of mice, and a puddling of ducks (specifically swimming ducks). Is t...

By the way, I have a question for somebody who is American. Why in some cities do they use metro, and in other cities they use subway?
I like this one better than the potential dupe:
Q: Terms for collections of animals

Boofus McGoofusAs I watched the murder of crows sitting on the line above my house this evening, I got wondering where all of the collective nouns for animals (pod of whales, gaggle of geese, pride of lions) came from and why we need so many. If sheep can be a flock, why can't whales, geese, lions, and crows?

The latter is technically older...
A: What's the difference between 'subway', 'metro' and 'tube'?

nohatEach city’s metro system has a “common name” that developed historically. London - “The Tube”, from the tube-shaped deep level bored tunnels Paris - metro, full name “Métropolitain” New York City - subway, because the main lines have significant underground sections Chicago - “The L” - from el,...

@kiamlaluno history and local idiosyncracy
1:16 PM
If I recall it right, in Washington D.C. they say metro, but in NYC, they say subway.
yes, see @nohat's answer
A: What's the difference between 'subway', 'metro' and 'tube'?

Jimi OkeTube This is the British colloquial (and also official) term for the London Underground. Not all the lines of the tube today are underground, though. However, the early Underground tracks were all subterranean. Subway The word "subway" can be generally used to describe an underground rail netw...

Jimi Oke's isn't bad, either.
That is another question I missed, it seems.
On December, I was not on EL&U.
@RegDwight Thank you.
Not at all.
I didn't take the metro on Boston; that is why I don't recall what word they use.
1:19 PM
It's dangerous to take long leaves from the site. Hear that, @Martha?
@MrHen I'm a bit confused, which question do you like most now?
Yep. You risk that nobody knows you, and they start to down vote your answers, or they do start to up vote all your answers.
Well, once you're a rep whale, you're a rep whale. Master of Disaster will get to 10k in no time.
It's funny: in Italy, the rail road company wrote "use the subway," instead of "use the underpass."
BTW, is this an answer? Seems more like a follow-up question to me:
A: What's the difference between 'subway', 'metro' and 'tube'?

Stein G. StrindhaugThis question made me wonder: Is there a general term for such urban/suburban light rail that sometimes are underground, above ground, and/or raised above ground? Or which of the terms Subway, Metro etc. would cause least confusion to describe such rail network? (The corresponding rail system in...

I can imagine many English people waiting for the subway in the underpass. :-)
@RegDwight That is a distinct case. I could do the same thing, and my reputation would not reach 20K.
1:25 PM
Of course it would. Given enough time, every user on this site will get to 10k.
not an answer, flagged as such
@RegDwight It's not an answer at all.
who is Master of Disaster?
Mar 4 at 13:29, by RegDwight
Kinopiko -> Shinto Sherlock -> Ex-User -> Kinopiko -> Master Of Disaster.
@JSBangs It's Shinto Sherlock, alias Kisnopikito (or something so).
On SO, he was Kinopiko.
1:27 PM
interesting, and i see your point
at this point pretty much all of his rep is passive
See his rep graph
It would be interesting to see if he gets votes from users who have an account on SO too.
there is an argument to be made that rep thresholds (at least the upper echelons) should be calculated on a scale, rather than absolute
Mar 10 at 21:19, by RegDwight
For the life of me, I can't find that MSO post where someone proposed a sliding-scale daily rep cap. Like, 200 for new stuff, 100 for one-week old stuff, and no passive rep whatsoever from one-year old stuff.
Mar 10 at 22:21, by RD01
Q: Why should I keep answering on Stack Overflow? Observations from a new user.

ErikObservations, suggestions and some questions after 4 days on Stack Overflow. I've been hearing about Stack Overflow from more and more people, and it turns up more and more often in my Google searches. This weekend I decided to finally give it a try, see how it compared to e.g. the original expe...

john skeet probably hits the rep cap every single day, and would do so even if he didn't answer anything at all
1:33 PM
Actually, he still isn't there.
@kiamlaluno — In Boston we use the "T".
Amazing, my most voted answer is the one about converting date in datetime (in Python).
@kiamlaluno Yes, and by a large margin.
@RegDwight: False modesty does not become you.
@Robusto Do you say "Let's take the T"?
1:36 PM
@Robusto You know that and I know that, but not everyone else does.
@kiamlaluno — Yes, unless we meant a specific line, like "Let's take the Green Line" or "We can take the Red Line to get there."
@RegDwight — That's how Fox News plays it. They count on the legions of the gullible.
Precisely. Why should I be any different from Fox News?
I actually took the T at Boston. We took it to go to the aquarium.
@RegDwight that's how i live my life
If I recall, we took the yellow, and the blue line.
1:38 PM
@kiamlaluno — Then you took the Blue Line.
So, if she were from Boston, J.Lo's album would've been titled "On the green"?
There's no Yellow Line, but there is an Orange Line.
It was funny, we took the T even if it was not necessary; we could have went to Quincy Market, and crossed the street.
@RegDwight — I am unfamiliar with most things J-Lo.
On the 6 is the debut studio album by American recording artist Jennifer Lopez, released on June 1, 1999 by Epic/Work Records. It debuted at number eight on the U.S. Billboard 200 the week of June 19, 1999, with first-week sales of 112,000 copies, remaining in the top 20 for 11 weeks and on the chart for 53 (including one re-entry). It has sold seven million copies worldwide and produced five singles, including the Billboard Hot 100 number one "If You Had My Love" and the Hot Dance Club Play number one "Waiting for Tonight". The album's title refers to the 6 subway line in New York City...
1:40 PM
@Robusto We took two lines. I don't remember exactly which.
Q: What is the origin and use of "remember me to her/him"

gbuttersIs anybody familiar with the use of remember as in remember me to her/him? I think I've see it in 19th century literature. Most likely it's archaic. I believe the speaker is commanding someone to give somebody his regards, or say hello. It seems awkward to hear it now as we only use remember ...

this seems to me to be a legitimate usage of
@kiamlaluno — Well, the one thing you do not want to do in Boston is drive. First: no parking. Second: the street plan was laid out by cows. Third: trying to go cross-town makes you feel like an ant trying to crawl through a box of elbow macaroni.
Seriously, cows.
@JSBangs I've been busy removing from questions with 5 tags, as you suggested.
I will target questions with 4 tags next.
@Robusto It was the green line and the blue line. She drove until the hotel, which was close enough to Boston. I recall we took the bus to go to the Quincy Market.
A: CSS "color" vs. "font-color"

RobustoThe same way Boston came up with its street plan. They followed the cow paths already there, and built houses where the streets weren't, and after a while it was too much trouble to change.

1:43 PM
(I have never driven on USA.)
@kiamlaluno Me neither. I only drive in the USA.
@Robusto I hate to say it, but MisterZimbu has a point there.
Although I've driven in Britain, France, and Germany.
@Robusto I have not done that either.
@RegDwight — Mister Zimbu?
1:45 PM
Yes, the accepted answer.
@Robusto I drive on USA all the time, with huge LEGO trucks.
I also make wroom, wroom! sounds.
@RegDwight — That is irrelevant. My answer is clearly accurate and much more fun. More than one answer can point to the truth, my friend.
And Mister Zimbu even waffles it at the end. "Alternatively, it could just be that the W3C's CSS standards are completely backwards and nonsensical as evidenced elsewhere."
I'm not saying that you don't have a point. I'm merely saying that he has one.
I think I have seen Stony Brook on Long Island too.
@Robusto See, the best of both worlds!
@RegDwight — Well, why would you "hate to say it" then?
1:48 PM
That's how you get accepted answers. For waffles!
@Robusto Because I chose so.
Don't get in the way of my hating. Thanks.
@RegDwight — I seem to be in your line of fire too much. Hard to duck that, actually. You're an equal-opportunity hater.
Yes, yes. Very much so.
Another view of @RegDwight. From around 0:50.
Misanthropy or no anthropy at all! Wimps and posers, leave the hall!
Who is whom?
1:55 PM
They call a feldwebel and use snippets from the movie.
@kiamlaluno — The one with the diamond is the ranking officer here. Oberfeldwebel Hartmann (get it? Hart + mann)

Proposed Q&A site for people who want to learn more about the various militaries around the world, their histories, weapons, tactics, logistics, funding, lifestyles and cultures. As well as the history and nature of warfare.

Currently in definition.

That's a pretty poor translation. Else it's been hacked up by the person who posted it.
@Robusto I was referring to your "Another view of @RegDwight."
@kiamlaluno — So was I. Senior Drill Moderator @RegDwight.
2:00 PM
Diamond, kiamlaluno. Clue.
@Robusto Do I get you mean @RegDwight is the ranking officer?
I already meant that. Now I'm tired.
Hey @Cerberus, we can see you. All of your three heads. Can't fool us.
(Is not there.)
2:02 PM
Right. Not talking about there, talking about here.
Only one of the three heads agrees, apparently.
@Cerberus How is Charon doing?
C'mon, sound off like you got a pair! Er, a trio!
This reminds me of my thwacking duties in the upcoming two weeks.
If @Cerberus doesn't answer in triplicate, we can't be sure if he agrees with himself.
2:04 PM
I might have to break down.
(Charon is off shopping for groceries, so puppy can finally take a decent nap.)
Cue kiamlaluno mentioning his invention of paretheses.
(And is reading Language Log in the mean time.)
Wait a minute ... Charon doesn't eat. He's a coin collector.
Charon Stone?
2:05 PM
Charon Karpenter.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification.
(Does not care for what the old man does in his spare time, but he was on Chef TV once, you know.)
Karen Anne Carpenter (March 2, 1950 – February 4, 1983) was an American singer and drummer. She and her brother, Richard, formed the 1970s duo The Carpenters. She was a drummer of exceptional skill, but she is best remembered for her vocal performances. She suffered from anorexia nervosa, a little known eating disorder at the time, and died at the age of 32 from heart failure, later attributed to complications related to her illness. Early life Carpenter was born in New Haven, Connecticut, to Agnes Reuwer Tatum and Harold Bertram Carpenter. When she was young, she enjoyed playing ...
She was nothing but skin and bones at the end anyway.
@Cerberus — Bet you didn't make fondue.
Na toll, jetzt hab ich Hunger.
@Robusto (That "he" was not this he, but gramps Charon. And, no nobody could rival Rob's magical recipe.)
(Hat immer Hunger.)
2:10 PM
@RegDwight — Also, frißt du sofort.
Bin nicht da. Muß was mampfen.
@Robusto Fressen is only used for animals. And Rammstein.
I meant it to be insulting. Sheesh.
Yes, and I am explaining why it didn't work.
Give me a little credit, willya.
10 tögrög?
2:12 PM
> So how do we determine whether it is obligatorily transitive in syntactic terms? It seems reasonable enough to look at people's use of the language and see whether they typically limit themselves to using it transitively.
Also, doesn't it have a sexual meaning as well? Maybe that's just Yiddish.
I can't believe how often prescriptivists and descriptivists completely miss each other's point. Are they all lunatics?
@Robusto Hm. Probably.
@Cerberus What are you quoting?
A good descriptivist and a good prescriptivist have nothing to argue about.
@Reg: Language Log,
@Cerberus — Mutato nomine de te fabula narratur.
2:13 PM
@Cerberus That's like saying that a good rabbi and a good pope have nothing to argue about.
> [1] The Prime Minister has warned that spending cuts are necessary.

Now, set on one side the issue of whether this truly exemplifies a grammatical mistake: of course it doesn't. What interests me here is the psychological question of what could possibly, even in principle, convince someone like Simon Heffer that he was wrong.
@Rob: What, if we change the name, the story is told about thee?
Change the name and the story is about YOU.
Well, is it?
I only rage against descriptivists when I perceive their crossing this very line... perhaps my perceptions fools me?
Pas moi.
1 min ago, by Robusto
Change the name and the story is about YOU.
@Reg: Nope, Rabis and Popes are rather like two groups of prescriptivists, with equally obscure but very different dialects.
2:16 PM
@Cerberus — A fool and his mania are soon partied.
Partied? Yes!
I guess there aren't enough native speakers on at the moment to recognize and admire my excellent double twisting of an old proverb.
(This concludes or rant for today, children.)
@Robusto Oh, that's terrible.
I know "a fool and his drink", but it is "partied" what confuses me.
2:18 PM
Not drink.
Oops, my bad.
"A fool and his money are soon parted."
And thwack, of course.
Yeah I knew that. I just woke up, still a bit drowsy.
2:19 PM
Sheesh. My talent is wasted here. I might as well just go get wasted and have fun.
No need to get wasted if your talent already is.
Me doesn't do "wake and bake" anymore though. Ah, how I miss the things of youth.
I am still after-crying from my rant, so I sympathise with your urges.
Q: Semi-vowels in English

C_PWhy in English 'w' and 'y' are called semi-vowels?

Surely this has been answered. I've seen it.
Hm. I can only think of tangentially related stuff, like "a year" vs "an year".
2:21 PM
migrate to linguistics.se
i voted to close
Q: When is "Y" a vowel?

Mr. Shiny and NewToday's XKCD got me thinking about when the letter Y is considered to be a vowel. I understand (perhaps incorrectly) that in words like bicycle and why it is a vowel. What about the word voyeur (as mentioned in the XKCD alt-text)? If I've got this backwards, and Y is almost always a vowel, how...

BTW, I just put on some Karen Carpenter on iTunes and after only a song and a half I felt like throwing up and never eating again.
@JSBangs There shold be a mechanism for keeping track of all the questions we close as belonging on Linguistics, so we can migrate them wholesale once it goes live.
@RegDwight — If Linguistics.SE ever does go live EL&U will be a ghost town.
2:23 PM
@JSBangs Nonono. Meta-tag. Jeff will kill it with fire on sight. And rightfully so.
Kind of like Writers.SE.
@Robusto I have voiced a similar concern a number of times.
Feb 25 at 9:04, by RegDwight
But I am worried about the Linguistics proposal.
@RegDwight, yeah, i know, meta-tags bad
@RegDwight — A "good pope"? That wouldn't describe a certain pope who was, how do I put this, a member of the Hitler Youth, would it?
it was the only thing that came to mind, though
2:26 PM
@Robusto I was actually talking about them Russian Orthodox popes.
@RegDwight — I thought them didn't have popes.
@Robusto This seriously concerns me. Is it wise to split up English and Linguistics?
@JSBangs On a second thought, migrating old questions isn't really an option anyway. The OP might not be around to accept etc.
is not meta, though, and we could make a point of reviewing all of our linguistics questions once ling.se goes live
@Robusto they have patriarchs
which is not really the same thing, but you can pretend that it is
@Cerberus — I think Linguistics.SE would be some kind of Armageddon. Once the seventh seal is broken and the Chomskyites are released, who knows what could happen?
2:28 PM
Basically I don't want to be checking two sites instead of one, exactly the same people probably being on both sites.
No not Chomsky!
i would really hope that linguistics.se attracts actual LINGUISTS
But would there be enough Chomskyites to fill Linguistics?
@JSB: Muwaha I will destroy it!
@Cerberus — Well, on the plus side you won't see me on Linguistics.SE more than you would see me on, say, Mathematics.
@Rob: That is sad.
i love mathematics.se because i can't even understand 2/3s of the questions
2:30 PM
Do you guys seriously think the split is going to work?
@Robusto and @JSBangs: a pope is a simple priest in that context. See M-W or Wiktionary.
@Cerberus — I like language and all, but I am a dilettante, a connoisseur of the interesting and the beautiful. It is one of my pleasurable pursuits. Linguistics enthusiasts go at language as if it were a painful duty.
@RegDwight aha! a usage question. i know that the word for priest is popa (or similar) in slavic languages, but i'd argue that it's inappropriate, or at the very least misleading, to refer to them as popes in English
@JSBangs — I would agree with that.
@Rob: But they are doing so already on this very website; do they not provide a pleasant background noise, against which your poetic musings are set off in an agreeable manner?
2:32 PM
@JSBangs I never promised not to be misleading.
@JSB: I have seen Russian [popa] translated literally as "pope" in Dutch, which isn't a word, though it does make us think of the English word.
@Cerberus — Nah, all that blather kinda kills my election, to be quite frank. So solly!
@Cerberus: you do realize that we also have a ton of users who are committed to German L&U, Japanese L&U, Spanish L&U, French L&U, etc. etc.?
Better edit that, young man!
@Cerberus and @JSBangs: Oh, and popa in Russian means arse. FFS, people. The priest is pop.
2:34 PM
@Reg: Yeah... and to be honest I doubt their viability as well! At least a great many people speak English or want to speak it, which does not apply nearly as much to the other languages.
@Reg: Oh! I merely aped JSB...
@RegDwight — I went to Catholic school, so "father" and "pope" meant arse too.
Ah OK.
FFS = Facial feminization surgery ?
For Fred's Sake.
Only not Fred.
That is the first hit I get. I refuse to look any lower.
@Cerberus No, SuperFicial Freak, backwards.
2:36 PM
Don't do this to me in the morning!
I will not do do you, like, ever. Be it in the morning or in the evening.
I can't even cry out coherently.
And stop editing stuffs.
Sure boss.
@RegDwight — Still working on that buzzkill badge, I see.
2:37 PM
Have I asked already whether anyone knew Jack Vance?
Have I already answered no?
@Cerberus — How would we know that? Do you think we follow you around like stenographers?
I know Bagger Vance, if that helps.
@Rob: Do I even need to answer this? Of course you do! Every embarrassing thing I have ever said is always quoted by either one of you.
2:38 PM
@RegDwight sorry, i was extrapolating from romanian, where the priest is popa, despite the fact that -a is normally a feminine ending.
@Cerberus He means, like, IRL.
@JSBangs Aha! Interesting.
@Reg: Then the answer is, "get your ass over here; I am talking, my precious words flying away like worthless wisps of air".
Mmmh. Okay. Whatever!
That is the right answer.
Now let me read that LL entry at last. Every time I click to that tab, someone pings me here.
2:40 PM
@Cerberus — Sorry. I am not going to play Tiro to your Cicero.
@Rob: Non si Latine loquar quidem?
Okay that was horrible Latin. Scratch that.
CW? Too broad? Flawed premise?
Q: English phrases created or popularized through Seinfeld

gbuttersSeinfeld has been very influential in transforming how Americans (and possibly other English speakers) speak, see: What does "yadda yadda" mean? What sayings or phrases in common parlance can be traced back to their use on Seinfeld?

@Cerberus — Don't you mean "non si latine loquere quidem"?
@RegDwight Voted as OT.
@Rob: Loquere is the imperative, can't use that in a subordinate clause...
Well, you were using it as a command, weren't you?
2:44 PM
@Robusto I'm sure there is a list on Wikipedia somewhere, but I can't be bothered looking up. Still trying to read LL.
@Rob: Now you are mixing up form and illocution, which work at different levels:
Illocutionary act is a term in linguistics introduced by John L. Austin in investigation of the multiple meanings in a speech act. The simplified gist of Austin's theory is that if you utter "Is there any salt?" at the dinner table the illocutionary force is that you desire salt, as distinct from the locutionary act (a question about the presence of salt) and the perlocutionary act (causing somebody to hand you the salt). Austin investigated what he calls 'performative' and 'constative utterances': an utterance is "performative" just in case it is issued in the course of the "doing of an...
@Cerberus — I'm losing my election ...
Consider that word. Does it make you happy, etc.?
Yes, but not when you talk about it.
2:47 PM
It's like sex: more fun when it's not analyzed until after the act.
Well if neither linguistics nor pleasant literary words can get you elected... you should bribe some electors.
I hear the King of Bavaria has a bent for folks like you.
@Robusto But the analysis after the act is always the same. "I was great!"
@RegDwight — That's your analysis. I'm more interested in the returns from other parties.
(Thinks he is going to throw in random linguistic Wikipedia articles now and then to drag people somewhat in the remote direction of the topic.)
2:50 PM
The ones who run down the street sobbing, clutching their clothing and personal effects.
Hey, does English have a word like necessaires or necessaties or neccessaries?
It should mean something like personal stuff.
@Robusto Well, the returns I hear from other parties is "yes, you were". If you hear something different, that's your problem.
Probably a woman's.
2:52 PM
@Cerberus — Necessaries would work. But that's an old usage.
Oh, OK.
Old = good!
OED doesn't know it.
noun (usu. necessaries) (also necessaries of life)
the basic requirements of life, such as food and warmth.
• small items required for a particular journey or purpose : I hastily threw a few necessaries into a kit bag.
I knew it existed.
Silly that the OED shouldn't have it.
From Websters 3rd New Int'l: items (as of food, clothing, shelter, medical care, equipment or furnishing) that cannot be done without: things that must be had (as for the preservation and reasonable enjoyment of life) : ESSENTIALS
No, that is different.
> • small items required for a particular journey or purpose : I hastily threw a few necessaries into a kit bag.
This is what I was after.
On second though, it might not be entirely the same. But close enough. I thank you.
2:57 PM
" things that must be had (as for the preservation and reasonable enjoyment of life)" — that describes the things a woman carries in her purse, to my way of thinking.
@RegDwight — No, I'm talking about what they say after you untie them and let them go.
@Cerberus That's odd. The CD-ROM version of the OED (as opposed to OED Online, which I can't currently access to verify) has it as the first meaning under the noun section for necessary: That which is indispensable; an essential or requisite: a. in pl.: 1875 Jowett Plato (ed. 2) III. 348 The money to buy the necessaries of their household.
@Robusto Oh, I am supposed to do that? OMg, brb.

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