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12:36 AM
@tohecz I'm now here ...
@Kurt He's zzz.
@tohecz @paulo is the cutest person in this room since he has the most smilies.
@JasperLoy awwww <3
+1 :P
@JasperLoy Ah, okay. Do you know what he wants? I just saw in the inbox his message ...
@Kurt No, I don't know. =(
12:47 AM
@JasperLoy Okay thanks I will try tomorrow. Good night
@PauloCereda +1? Where? =)
2:10 AM
What to do with this question tex.stackexchange.com/q/76237/3954? Should I turn my comment into an answer? According to the OP's last comment, my suggestion solved his problem; however, I think the question is too localized. What do you think?
1 hour later…
3:33 AM
I got arara compiling my TeX straight from my favorite text editor
<3 @PauloCereda
@GonzaloMedina Just voted to close as "too localized". Obviously the OP is using this code without the least understanding what it does. Which is not in itself a bad thing, but I don't think it's a good thing to have too many questions here which support this kind of ignorance ;-)
4:02 AM
@StephanLehmke Agreed. Voted to close too.
Hi. anyone up to the task ;) tex.stackexchange.com/questions/76262/…
2 hours later…
5:50 AM
@GonzaloMedina: Nope sorry, I was gone to bed
1 hour later…
7:20 AM
(EuroTeX continues, yesterday: excursion to Brugge)
@topskip Cool: it's a lovely place. Hope you all had fun
@JosephWright yes, absolutely. And the weather was so nice, sunny and warm (for october)
Now a talk by Bogusłav Jackowski on "OTF math fonts: GUST e-foundry’s workbench"
@topskip Ah, now this is the one I really wish I could see
Next one will be: Jerzy Ludwichowski "Present and future of the TG Math Project: the report and some questions"
@topskip Also of significant interest
7:27 AM
This morning more are coming: Piotr Strzelczyk: "Is backward compatibility of LM Math and CM math sensible?" and a BOF session ‘The future of math fonts’
@topskip All sounds very exciting
8:04 AM
@AndrewStacey As you are planning to come to the UK-TUG AGM, can I 'encourage' you to join UK-TUG :-)
Q: Calibre recipe for StackExchange recent question feeds

ℝaphinkThe Calibre ebook manager has a recipe system to generate ebooks from websites/news feeds in order to read them offline. The following recipe creates an ebook from all StackExchange news feeds: from calibre.web.feeds.recipes import BasicNewsRecipe import feedparser def get_feeds(url): ...

@egreg MiB is a purely complex version of MegaByte and it's used in quantum computing ;)
8:45 AM
@JosephWright Consider me encouraged - a quick search of the UK-TUG site says that dues are ten quid. Is that right?
(Actually, I'd better get the UK-TUG AGM in our family calendar otherwise it might not happen.)
@AndrewStacey Yes :-) Probably easiest to give it to me on the day: as you'd be joining in the last part of the year it will automatically include 2013
@AndrewStacey Good plan
9:09 AM
@JosephWright I think I can stretch to that. I don't need the TeXLive DVD, though. (I'd quite happily go for electronic memberships of TUG and UK-TUG if these existed.)
@AndrewStacey We have a 'no post' option
@AndrewStacey It's on the form :-)
I'm also planning the UK-TUG + TUG option. :)
@JosephWright Hadn't gotten as far as looking at the form. I was thinking more of TUG since I got that via SE so probably wasn't thinking as much about the various options (don't even remember if I filled in a form for that).
We need to annoy Joseph to have more Baskerville publications. :)
9:28 AM
@tohecz I'm just introducing the complex numbers to my students.
9:46 AM
@PauloCereda Yay! I vote therefore I cap.
@percusse <3
@AndrewStacey Ah right. The TUG office are pretty helpful
10:16 AM
@DavidCarlisle: Looks like the OP changed his mind and went with the tikz answer. :-) But you will be happy to know that I am done with what I had to do and was using this site for procrastination. By next week you should be able to pass me, but I'll try not to get too far behind..
@PeterGrill pretty impressive procrastination, 290 yesterday :(
@PeterGrill in what way can the tikz one be faster? Do you have it preloaded in the format?
(I gave you a +1 anyway for emulating picture mode in tikz)
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, but see that I am not even close to being rep capped today, and we are almost half way thru.. :-) It is faster as you just have to call \DrawGridWithNumbers;. Then you are done. :-)
@PeterGrill yes but with picture mode the document is typeset and you can make a cup of coffee before tikz has finished logging 1001 package paths to the log file.
10:31 AM
@DavidCarlisle :-) Yes, but with picture mode when do you get a chance to even make the coffee. Anyway to late for me to think about coffee. Good morning everybody, I am going to sleep...
@DavidCarlisle Just an amateur. :) 320.
OMG I saw a cat in the EuroTeX!
@PeterGrill I think we should summon @AndrewStacey for that question and let the mathematicians sort it out within the family.
hmm so we could fork arara into ostrich... Interesting.
@percusse That's not a job for simple mathematician, that a job for a experienced Tikzinican. :-)
10:43 AM
@PauloCereda No slang in the chatroom please keep the discussion civilized!! :P
@percusse <3
@egreg you're still lagging behind Gonzalo for the month though:-)
OK, I'm gonna add LOL faces to all the photos in that Facebook link. :)
@DavidCarlisle By 35 points! Must procrastinate more. :)
And 120 for the week! Ridiculous!
I'm not sure if I should show the LOL photos now.
11:00 AM
@percusse That's not going to win my award for "best TikZ question". There are too many variations for it to be clear what a "good" solution would be. As pictures go, it's a fairly easy one for TikZ, but it's not clear how much should be automated.
11:32 AM
Needs one more vote to close:
Q: mindmap problem

MohamedWhen compiling (on debian) the example in http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/computer-science-mindmap/ I get a strange behavior of the central node (see attached image). have you any suggestion ? (I'm sorry it was a problem of my pdf viewer) Regards, Mohamed

12:31 PM
@JosephWright Oh my!
12:43 PM
@tohecz: I'm now here ...
(eurotex: ConTeXt workshop with the master himself)
@topskip Yay!
@topskip: you got mail. :P
@Kurt Hello!
@PauloCereda you can post "mine" here
@topskip David will kill us. :)
12:53 PM
I know that you're doing quite a lot of work with retagging etc., just please remember that the "text building blocks" should be used carefully
for example here it was clear what the user wants and he was asking for a feature that most of the BibLaTeX users know, so no need for a MWE ;)
Q: Setting biblatex maxbibnames option truncates to the first name + et al. not to the maxbibnames value

Roey AngelI'm using: biblatex 1.7.1; biber (0.9.6 I guess) and working on LyX on Kubuntu 12.04. For example, I'm setting in my .bbx file the value to 6: \ExecuteBibliographyOptions { maxbibnames = 6 } But in the reference list the references aren't truncated after 6 names as I would expect but rat...

@PauloCereda kill us? kill YOU :)
@topskip oops. :P
Hi -- I am sitting here in Berlin and it's boring.
@PauloCereda Did you notice my suggestion about a big community meeting? What do you think?
@MarcoDaniel A TeX.sx meeting? :) I like the idea. :)
@PauloCereda Yes, next to UK-TUG we need a TeX.sx meeting ;-)
1:04 PM
@MarcoDaniel Yay!
@tohecz Mildly disagree with you there. MWE's aren't just to help people get better answers, they're also so that others who aren't necessarily experts can understand what's going on and so learn from the question and answer. I think that that learning is a key feature of this site and part of what makes it so useful.
@PauloCereda Based on our great community we can do this in a warm area ;-)
@MarcoDaniel Indeed. :) Norway! :)
@MarcoDaniel Sicily? But I'm afraid it's a bit difficult to get there for many foreigners. :(
@Marco: you got mail. :) Hope it cheers you up. :P
1:09 PM
@egreg but it's a nice location
I remember that one day I went to a nearby town, maybe 15km from Catania, with my scooter. It was noon, to be honest, but the shirt was sufficient. I remember well the day, because it was my mum's birthday: 20 November. :)
@egreg How nice! :)
@PauloCereda I am sitting in a seminar and I had to laugh aloud :-(
@MarcoDaniel LOL sorry. :)
Some time later, I came back to the North for the holidays. I went to the airport with a light sweater on: 22 December. :)
1:13 PM
@egreg No snow? :)
@PauloCereda On the top of Etna there's much snow in the winter; they ski there!
You can ski and then climb down and have a dive.
People go to the sea till the end of November.
@egreg And at the bottom of the mountain you can wear a shirt
@egreg How nice!
@MarcoDaniel I went down town from the department one evening to see the big procession; I didn't put my gloves on (I was with my scooter). S. Agata (the big feast) is on 5 February.
@Marco: in other news, arara has now the PT-BR translation too. :)
1:18 PM
@MarcoDaniel Can you go with a scooter in Hamburg in February without your gloves on? I'm pretty sure of the answer. ;-)
@egreg You know the answer ;-) It's cold. Whether you will have snow or it will rain ;-)
@MarcoDaniel The answer is: you don't go around with a scooter in Hamburg in February.
@AndrewStacey but still, there are cases when MWE is not necessary IMO, like that one.
@egreg it depends on the driver. Believe me. ;-)
I really don't like the "absolute" attitude "question without MWE is badly stated"
1:32 PM
@MarcoDaniel You find crazy people almost everywhere. :)
@tohecz: Sorry had to work ...
have you read my message? it's been posted 40 minutes ago
@tohecz I was just searching for it. You mean that one with biblatex?
@Kurt yes. Maybe it's because I read the same threads as you at the same time of a day. It's great to do the work with retagging and trying to improve the questions. But sometimes it seems to me that the "text building blocks" and MWE requests are not so important, like in the one with BibLaTeX
@tohecz: I think the problem with a MWE or not is that new users do not know what to do. And we want also help new users and not "old" ones? A new user would benefit from a MWE, an old user may not. But in this case (I was not sure wheather just deleting the blanks was the right answer) isn't it better to show what you do?
@tohecz: If people here do not want this please say it -- no problem.
1:45 PM
@Kurt Yes, in general it is. But in this case, the answer is sort-of obvious and the MWE would be just too large to add any value IMHO
@tohecz I said "mild disagreement". I also dislike the absolute attitude. I'm just explaining why my instinctive reaction would be to want an MWE on that question. Looking at it, I will learn nothing from it, nor will I be able to help. It may be that biblatex experts can figure out what's going on, but I can't and moreover, I can't see that an expert can figure it out. So in that case, an MWE would help me more than the questioner, but still adds value to the site.
Ok, seems that the discussion is more colorful that black and white ;)
I don't know what I'm doing wrong: I'm not a BibLaTeX user, still, when I opened the question, I knew exactly what is being asked there, and just putting "maxbibnames" into the site search bar gave me the answer...
I have a lot to do with students. Perhaps this is the reason why I always tries to look on an question as a beginner and most of them do not know they are beginners :-(
@tohecz: No, I do not think, you did something wrong. I think it is good to discuss these things.
@Kurt IMHO requesting a MWE is reasonable if (1) it is hard to tell what's being asked, (2) it's too much work for the answerers to test their solutions or (3) the MWE would improve the question for the future visitors.
Somehow I have the feeling that here it doesn't belong to any such category, and doing something because "we're doing it always" is a bad reason.
2:05 PM
@tohecz: I can understand (I hope) you. But I think, to have a MWE is more important. Not only that the used document class or used packages and options are important, users didn't forget to mention that the using them. Also a MWE makes normaly clear whether biber or bibtex is used and so on ...
@tohecz: So I would try to give a signal to always build a MWE not only for the answerer, also for the questionarer to fix his minds and for the (not so competent) reader to be able to learn more ... (I hope you understand my poor school english)
IMHO a M(n)WE is always beneficial. :) Sometimes, it even helps the OP to find the answer he was looking for! :)
Any XING users here? Today I registered there ;-) Interesting platform
@MarcoDaniel I'm already in a (German) LaTeX group ;)
@PauloCereda I don't know if you read the question. I really think that it's necessary to ask yourself with every question: What is the reason why I should request a MWE.
@Marco: Yes, I am a XING user. But I think people try to much to sell there products there ...
2:11 PM
@tohecz Could you point me to the thread? :)
Q: Setting biblatex maxbibnames option truncates to the first name + et al. not to the maxbibnames value

Roey AngelI'm using: biblatex 1.7.1; biber (0.9.6 I guess) and working on LyX on Kubuntu 12.04. For example, I'm setting in my .bbx file the value to 6: \ExecuteBibliographyOptions { maxbibnames = 6 } But in the reference list the references aren't truncated after 6 names as I would expect but rat...

@Qrrbrbirlbel Cool I must search ;-)
@Kurt Really? That's odd
It was easy to find, but don't get your hopes up. There isn't hardly any activity.
@PauloCereda ;-) What's the matter?
2:15 PM
@tohecz Thanks. :) The question seems very well written and straight to the point, so I'd say the MWE might not be required. On the other hand, the question seems to be biblatex-specific and I'd like to learn more from the question and if I could use some of this neat stuff for my own documents. I think that's where the MWE could be interesting, to gather more people into learning from the thread. :)
@MarcoDaniel Bazinga! :) I'm scared of those networks, including LinkedIn. :)
@PauloCereda I don't know this platform LinkedIn
@PauloCereda On the other hand, it can (easily) happen that the user thinks: "What the fuck? I need one small thing, I made my question clear, and they're making an issue of it."
@MarcoDaniel: Yes it is odd, there is a german group Fortbildung were a man, Mr. Faßbender always post very interesting courses ...
@tohecz Agreed. :) Maybe the suggestion for a MWE might be rephrased with, "Cool! This seems like an interesting stuff from biblatex! Could you add a simple MWE, I'd love to learn more!"
@PauloCereda: Good idea, I will use it next time ...
2:22 PM
@PauloCereda Yes, I think that the request should definitely be "nicer" when it's not necessary. And I would safe the "aggressive" one to the tougher cases: "I think that without a MWE, nobody is able to help you." :P
@Kurt I really love to see MWE's around, it's a nice way of having self-contained questions. I think we could suggest alternative text building blocks for MWE's. :)
@PauloCereda: My English is not so good so I prefer to use text buildings blocks. I can delete my comment in the question, no problem. Should I?
@Kurt I don't think anything need to be deleted ;)
@Kurt My English is not so good either, I also prefer relying on text building blocks. :) I think you can keep the comment, it's not doing any harm. :)
I'm happy that we found a way such that everybody is satisfied (I hope you are fine with this)
2:35 PM
I have no problem with this discussion, realy.
Clearly we need more ducks. :)
2:55 PM
It's too quiet in here, let's spam
@ℝaphink The breakfast looks yummy.
Yep @egreg, indeed
4:00 PM
@MarcoDaniel /me is one
4:31 PM
@egreg I like the very first comment there: "I should point out that you don't normally see vikings at resteraunts." Wow, I did not know that!!
@PeterGrill :-)
@JosephWright Plus Hungarians and their dirty phrasebooks. :)
4:53 PM
@tohecz Yeah that can and has happened. Remember the new user around March.. Made me (and others as well) not want to try to even answer, or ask fro clarification. But I really don't understand why that isn't just obvious to people, unless you test it, it ain't going to work (Well, with the exception of those with unfair advantages like having wrote the packages themselves :-)).
@AndrewStacey Totally agree. I was the one that was chastised for asking for a MWE for a plain tex and only thing missing was the bye. But I learned from it -- not that made me go to plain, but sill the point is even the smallest MWE can be useful. And for the case where it is trivial to create why not just create one.
No. If the OP provides a minimal example as a complete document I always test my answers, if they don't, I don't:-) — David Carlisle yesterday
(in answer to a comment asking if I'd tested what I'd said)
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, but for us mere mortals it is very unlikely that it will work.
@PeterGrill In my case if I haven't run it it's very likely that there is a typo or some other slight catch for the unwary. since nine times out of ten I'll mistype \begin{document} it annoys me if the OP doesn't do it for me:-)
@DavidCarlisle Yeah, I seem to have a similar issue but with \usepackge.
5:15 PM
This tex.stackexchange.com/q/76282/3954 can be closed as "too localized". Problem solved after updating packages.
5:52 PM
Yay, my first "zero vote" accepted answer. :)
6:12 PM
@PauloCereda I could down vote it to make it even more special?
@DavidCarlisle <3
Let's keep at the sea level for now. :)
6:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle :-)
7:17 PM
@tohecz Don't you think it would be going too much out of one's way to care for people with such attitudes? TeX.SX is already the community with maybe the most positive attitude towards people asking bad questions around...
7:55 PM
@DavidCarlisle Hmm, although I don't have many posts here, I always like to give the complete document whether it is a question or answer.
First battle of the day: install Tk for Perl in Slackware. :)
@PauloCereda You use Slackware now?
@JasperLoy One of my notebooks has it. But I'm a Fedora user. :)
@PauloCereda Yes, I remember that Paulo=Fedora, they even sound similar!
@JasperLoy yes agreed, I wouldn't make a test document and then not post it, but in the context of that comment I wasn't testing at all just going on decades old recollection from a time when I knew how TeX worked and making comments off the top of my head. Had there been an MWE I might have tested my comments first.
8:01 PM
@JasperLoy huh? :P
In Fedora, that is just a yum install perl-Tk, while in Debian it is an apt-get install perl-tk. Note the big and small t.
@JasperLoy Indeed. :) In Slackware, it's a little more complicated. :P
@PauloCereda I wonder why Fedora uses big t. It makes typing harder.
@JasperLoy It's the correct capitalization. The same goes for Perl and CPAN.
@PauloCereda But if that is the argument, it should be yum install Perl-Tk instead!
8:06 PM
@JasperLoy The language is Perl, the language reference is perl. :) The module is named Tk. :(
@PauloCereda OIC, this is advanced stuff!
I'll rename arara to ArArA and make the command line too to be as complicated as possible. :)
@JasperLoy And just confuses the bejesus outta us. :)
I once ran yum install perl-tk and it didn't work. It took almost one day to figure out what happened.
Yay, building Tk from sources. What a joy!
@PauloCereda I thought real men always started by building the linux kernel from source?
I thought real men just use paper and pencil, not computers.
@DavidCarlisle Good times. The kernel panic part was the best of all. :)
@PeterGrill I already posted a "possible duplicate" comment? Either way, should I post my answer on the original question?
@Qrrbrbirlbel Perhaps it makes sense to have that answer at linked question instead so next time a similar issue comes up we can refer people to the original question.
@PeterGrill hi, you said that it wouldnt display correctly?
Or did i mistunderstand?
@zeroth Yes, the code posted in the MWE does NOT put the label on the arc.
What do you think? Off topic?
Q: referencing sections in other chapters

Stefan MüllerIs there a norm for citing sections in other chapters? That is, when I am in Chapter 3 and refer to section 2 in chapter 2. Do I write "Section 2.2" or "Chapter 2.2" or Section 2 of Chapter 2. Logically Section 2.2 seems to be the correct way, since 2.2 is not a chapter but part of a chapter ......

8:28 PM
Then i must have a very recent update.. :)
@zeroth You must be running the CVS version.
The above was made with: \begin{tikzpicture}
\draw (0,0) arc (0:180:1) node[midway] {H};
\draw (0,-2) arc (0:180:1) node[midway,above] {H};
Yes, I work with CVS, so sometimes I dont see all these "bugs" ;)
It is noted in the linked question that this works in teh CVS version, but don't think it is out in the wild yet.
@zeroth As cjorssen wrote in the linked question that's introduced with the 2.10 CVS version.
Ok, thanks!
8:32 PM
@percusse I wonder when version 3 will be out. The last release was quite a while ago.
which is a great addition. And in the changelog Till Tantau writes finally for that.
@PeterGrill I deleted my answer and added it to the older question.
@JasperLoy I think they are trying to fix some fundamental changes. Then it will be out in the wild.
fix is a strong word. Probably testing things.
@percusse I wonder whether there will be many new features. There was a big growth in the manual the last time. Perhaps it would exceed a thousand pages next time.
What I don't understand is why they have spent so much time on the graph library while they still have pgfplots
and Christian is also the developer of TikZ now.
8:35 PM
@percusse I think that they had different ideas for implementation, but now they seem to be collaborating.
@percusse Because he wants to do things his own way?
@JasperLoy Actually the stable version has the fpu and a few other libraries already by Christian so the collaboration goes back some time.
Other users have contributed many packages, but I think TT still wants to implement those himself, which I think is wonderful.
Maybe he is getting tired because he left the beamer to Joseph and another developer completely.
I am really waiting for two features which will never be implemented in 9000 years.
8:37 PM
@JasperLoy Batman and xkcd is already implemented :)
One is the introduction of the inverse hyperbolic functions in the math engine.
Two is 2D and 3D Euclidean geometry. Yes I know, AM already has done tkz-euclide.
@JasperLoy Ah our Bruno Le Floch is fixing the hyperbolic functions if I remember correctly so it will out in the l3 math engine.
So maybe we should wait a couple more years and then compare tikz and pstricks again.
@JasperLoy For the 3D people are trying some things and I'm also trying to get a very basic matrix library for small sized matrices. And no PSTricks will always win :)
8:40 PM
I read the review of the pstricks book on TUG site. They said it has many code errors. :-(
Because without a change in TeX itself, there is not much hope for numerical consistency especially with rotation matrices.
@JasperLoy Well it can have as many as Herbert wants :)
@percusse I am thinking that the entire math in the pgf suite could just be left to gnuplot.
@JasperLoy Yes but they want to have all the drivers included
Otherwise it becomes just like the Pstricks only via PS
I guess they are approaching to Lua side.
@percusse Hmm, OK. Anyway currently pgfplots already needs to use gnuplot for more complicated functions. It would be good if that need were eliminated totally. So pgf is to gnuplot as pstricks is to postscript.
8:44 PM
@JasperLoy I see a lot of new Lua connections in the CVS version.
@percusse I think they should roll plain TeX, LaTeX and ConTeXt all into one. Just like they should roll all Linux distros into one. =)
@JasperLoy You might say that to the top mathematicians too. They should come together and solve the tough questions but egos clash.
@PauloCereda I compiled Tk many years ago; there were windows everywhere during the test!
@percusse Should I use the same concept of function as an analyst? No way. :)
@egreg :-)
@egreg Exactly! :) It's part of the test suite, Tk tests all of its components. All of a sudden, windows everywhere! :)
8:49 PM
@percusse Maybe, if they acknowledge that our concept of function is the right one…
And we can emulate functions by defining static methods. :) :set offtopic-mode on
@egreg I don't understand why they can't accept that I'm slightly better at this
@PauloCereda Computer scientists. Tsk, tsk. :)
@egreg :)
Alternative to IEEEeqnarray : Heresy (It's Heiko powered!) :P
8:52 PM
We are crazy people.
Upvote needed:
Q: europecv and biblatex compatibility problem

louis cypherI use the europecv class and I'd like to use my biblatex bibliographies inside. It turns out that europecv needs the ucs package which is incompatible. Any idea how to deal with this problem?

@lockstep My 41st is yours :)
@egreg: speaking of CS guys, it's so sad that nowadays the students can't see the beauty of some theoretical stuff, say Lambda Calculus. :)
@percusse 41st? How so?
@PauloCereda Is it on XBox ?
8:54 PM
@lockstep "Daily vote limit reached; vote again in 3 hours." My 41st is yours too, just wait a few hours. :)
@lockstep That's how Paulo catched you :)
@percusse I tried CoD instead. :)
@percusse shhh! :)
@lockstep He has hooks with the Powers that Be
@percusse You will too, in the not-so-distant future. ;-)
An extra vote a day keeps the serial voting algorithm away! :)
8:56 PM
@lockstep Actually I'll try to reduce my TeX.SE usage. I was running away from MATLAB now the other way around :)
@PauloCereda Just do no more than four at a time and you are safe!
@JasperLoy :)
@PauloCereda I am an expert serial upvoter. I am sometimes a revenge downvoter =)
@JasperLoy :)
@percusse have you looked into the pgfplots library for matrices etc?
@percusse or actually it is not a library but an additional structure needed for LU decomposition and solve
9:06 PM
@zeroth Yes I'm trying a basic QR decompostion
If it works I'm gonna use it first for hobby algorithm
@percusse, ah ok! :) I see an answer coming up? :) So you are using Christians implementation?
but unfortunately not until I get the PhD degree.
hehe... And is that soon? Or in a year?
@zeroth As soon as my damn robots act accordingly. If I get the results I'll put the plots in and I'm done. :)
It probably sounds easier than it is...?
9:08 PM
Right now they are ...ehm... quite opinionated about what to do.
The insider term is unstable but that's just engineering talk.
I think they are not cooperating.
hehe... But if they have a mind of their own, you've actually come far longer than first seemed. :) (joke aside, I hope it will turn out great!)
But are you in a hurry or not too much?
I have just started my PhD and feel like the time flies too fast...
@zeroth It's now implemented on a surgery robot and specs are just ridiculously tight. And I'm in a hurry indeed.
I'm not in the video but it's this.
@percusse hmm.. Sounds terrible. Debugging can take forever (unless you know what to look for). But then its not debugging, then its searching...
@Qrrbrbirlbel Yep, saw that. Am all out of votes for today, but tomorrow is not that far off.
@percusse that looks really interesting, and a lot of subtleties in the software to control it!
9:15 PM
@zeroth Yep force feedback is a ill-posed problem so we needed to use every trick in the bag.
The surgeons seem to like it though.
Let me find that eye surgery robot thingy. It's really great.
@PeterGrill Why, thank you. :)
I tried to make a macro out of it, so that it works with every radius and every angle(s), but TikZ/LaTeX are giving me a hard time: Missing character: There is no [ in font nullfont!
My first thinking is noise control of the human hand.
@zeroth Oh that we solved for good.
9:20 PM
@percusse that looks sick
The problem is that when you amplify those tiny forces noise also gets amplified so we are splitting the hair when we are processing the signals :)
@percusse with force feedback, do you mean the force felt by the pin, transferred back to the user alignment stick?
@zeroth yes.
So if you hit a hard object, the joystick doesn't allow you to move further.
So it's a virtual wall you are feeling.
ok... Now I understand better... full virtualization..
@Qrrbrbirlbel This means that you're trying to typeset text where it's not allowed.
9:22 PM
@zeroth Cutting edge science bitches ! :P
@percusse I like! :) Thats whats its all about! :)
@PeterGrill If one wants to play in that CSS way, then CSS is the answer. We are typesetting, not playing with characters. :)
@egreg I've got so far, but if I copy-paste the macro's content straight to where it would be called, it works. It this is an expanding issue? In another answer I could it perfectly.
Actually when the surgeons come over you understand that it's something good otherwise I just hate it to see everyday .
9:23 PM
And if I put \draw (x,y) into the macro as well, it works.
@egreg :-)
@Qrrbrbirlbel Well, it's difficult to say. I don't know much of TikZ. Probably David is more expert than me. ;-)
hehe... You have worked too much on that thingy! Sounds like the perfect love-hate relationship! :)
@PeterGrill @PeterGrill Of course one can use TeX for other purposes than typesetting, but that kind of things is really annoying. Just mark those words and use proper XML. Or TeX macros.
I will go to bed now, its too late here... :) Good night everybody!
9:25 PM
@zeroth Good night!
@percusse thanks, and same when you get to that!
@egreg Alright.
@egreg Sure, but there are use cases where it is better to have things automated so that you don't have to check -- of course that is usually more work than doing it manually, so depends on how often you have to do it.
One of the greatest things about TeX is that it allows you to procrastinate and make you feel as if you are actually doing something useful. :-)
@PeterGrill Ooh, bingo! That's what I feel....
instant star! :P
@percusse Somebody had to say it...
9:31 PM
@PeterGrill I also watch car and jet engine repair videos. Not the same effect indeed :)
@egreg yes I know lots about tikz (I tend to stick to picture mode in answers to give @PeterGrill chance at a point or two)
@DavidCarlisle Much appreciated. Am so glad that you and @egreg haven't dived into tikz yet.
@PeterGrill We are doing something useful! At least we are increasing the amount of procrastination in the universe, which acts contrary to entropy.
@egreg :-)
@PeterGrill K364 always puts me in a good mood.
9:38 PM
@egreg Will have to try that. Not sure it sounds as good as TeXing though.
@PeterGrill Sinfonia concertante for violin and viola in E flat major. With Anne-Sophie Mutter and Bruno Giuranna.
@egreg Yep, had to Google, it and found the YouTuble link.. Hence the use of "sounds" :-)
@PeterGrill Two great performers also in that version; but Giuranna is a true viola player, while Zuckerman is a violinist.
9:58 PM
@PeterGrill On your question about todo/pgfplots, I can't reproduce the issue anymore.
standalone.cls    2012/09/15 v1.1b Class to compile TeX sub-files standalone
ifluatex.sty    2010/03/01 v1.3 Provides the ifluatex switch (HO)
   ifpdf.sty    2011/01/30 v2.3 Provides the ifpdf switch (HO)
 ifxetex.sty    2010/09/12 v0.6 Provides ifxetex conditional
 xkeyval.sty    2008/08/13 v2.6a package option processing (HA)
 xkeyval.tex    2008/08/13 v2.6a key=value parser (HA)
standalone.cfg    2012/09/15 v1.1b Default configuration file for 'standalone' class
 article.cls    2007/10/19 v1.4h Standard LaTeX document class
10:15 PM
Which question is this?
@percusse Still occurs. The document class needs to be article, I guess the new standalone somehow fixes it, but the problem with todonotes/pgfplots interaction is still there. However since it resolves it self in subsequent runs perhaps we should close this question.
@PeterGrill Ah OK. I thought it was about standalone.
11:21 PM
TL2012 installed in Slackware. :)

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