The Nineteenth Byte - 2022-10-19 (page 1 of 3)

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12:00 AM

One optimization might be {do expr; evaluate to true} though

yeah true but im already doing true || expr -> true (bc short circuiting) so just wanted to confirm my gut

global chat hiccup at utc midnight lol

lol

i wonder why

@Bubbler eh closures?

not really an optimisation

it does skip the || operator, but if your lang can't easily express such a thing, then yeah

12:26 AM

0

Q: Triangular honeycomb numbers

From the infinite triangular array of positive integers, suppose we repeatedly select all numbers at Euclidean distance of \$\sqrt{3}\$, starting from 1: $$ \underline{1} \\ \;2\; \quad \;3\; \\ \;4\; \quad \;\underline{5}\; \quad \;6\; \\ \;\underline{7}\; \quad \;8\; \quad \;9\; \quad \underlin...

code-golf math sequence

@emanresuA that pinged me

Hivemind time

12:41 AM

can someone plz check what im doing wrong here: tio.run/##RYpBDoIwFETX/…

so confused cuz it works not inside a loop???

tio.run/##RchLCoAgEADQ/…

dunno what's happening in the second code, but normally you need to pass -lm to gcc like this

wats -lm

link your code with math library object

hmm okok

also loop is not related to the issue, using a variable is

12:46 AM

thats so strange, why would that be

apparently pow(3, 4) is constant-folded even without optimization, so it doesn't need an actual reference to pow

da hell is constant folded

see godbolt; one has call pow while the other doesn't

@AidenChow constant folding is evaluating constant expression into a single value at compile time

@Bubbler ah okok

OldSandboxPosts

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Prime factor power sorting, Alternating patterns, Infinite Integer Derivative code-golf

2 hours later…

2:34 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

code-golfarraynumber Conversions Galore! Imagine that there are \$n\$ different types of objects \$O_1,O_2,O_3,\ldots,O_n\$ and they each have a conversion factor \$k_1,k_2,k_3,\ldots,k_n\$. You can, for any \$1\le i\le n\$, convert \$k_i\$ amount of \$O_i\$ into \$1\$ of any other type of object...

@SandboxPosts is it dupe?

it seems like a simple enough problem to think of but hopefully its not a dupe lol

2:57 AM

i have no idea what youd search for for that but thats kind of an awesome question

@thejonymyster thx lol, very rarely do i think of good challenge ideas

1 hour later…

4:21 AM

ello

@DialFrost hello!

1 hour later…

5:31 AM

LDQ: does it matter if a flag does something that a flagless program could never do / that a flagless program could already do on its own?

more broadly: what are flags for, overall?

Originally, compiler options / interpreter options

Nowadays, golf

Can be botht

6:02 AM

iirc Perl/Raku flags can affect golf by altering the behavior of the entire program or initializing certain global variable(s)

[confirmation needed]

fair enough ty all

i was just thinking like... flags which make the langauge function in an almost entirely different way

i cant think of examples its late

just be aware that people have varying opinions on which flags are cheaty or not

imo Japt flags have some ok-ish ones

6:31 AM

How would one golf this? if v%5:print(v)

I can't do print(v if v%5) as it requires an else

6:45 AM

there's v%5and print(v) but same length

@Bubbler darn

2 hours later…

9:22 AM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Count the shared substrings with 2 programs Write 2 programs which count the number of shared subsequences of consecutive elements from 2 given sequences. For example, given "test" and "enter", there are 5 shared subsequences of consecutive elements: t t e e te Scoring Your score will be the res...

9:40 AM

my google recognize this chatroom as Vietnam and suggested me autotranslate

That's why you disable that feature

9:57 AM

@lyxal get over here to vyxal chat :3

10:13 AM

@Bubbler you could do v%5>1<print(v) if you don't mind erroring, otherwise you can replace the < with != for the same length

err, meant to reply to @DialFrost

1 hour later…

11:18 AM

new language nominated for lotm

1

A: Nominations for Language of the Month, Take 2

Bracmat What Bracmat used to be in the 1980s was a computer algebra system, made to simplify the usage and manipulation of algebraic expressions. It still owns the properties of such a system for accuracy and ease of use. It has since expanded to involve: expression evaluation in pattern matchin...

thinking of nominating COBOL, what do people think

11:44 AM

→ Don't lie to me Walt, I knew 1 message was moved to The Nineteenth Bakery, sussy baka

improved the Pip post while i was at it. Vote for Pip!

@DLosc we have to start campaigning

LDW

11:59 AM

Welcome to the Tenth Language Design Workshop! The general premise is that you can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, you'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.

8

I kinda want to build a practlang

good!

> any lang can be an esolang if you use it wrong enough - Ginger, 2022

Basically I want to adapt Inform 7 to make it general purpose

Or actually not general purpose but focused on writing webservers

I think the rulebook-oriented system would work very well

I want to make a lang but I don't have any ideas

12:14 PM

^ lol

@Ginger Just turn a recent meme into a brainfuck clone

I sorta do but I still have to make it "unique"

@mousetail ~~great idea~~

75% of esolangs on the wiki are just "These words sound funny" lets make a lang out of that

true

12:16 PM

hmm, this gives me a bad idea

> Whenever

one sec

is a good language

Your mother is a good language lmao gotthem

lol

12:19 PM

y'all ever write ebnf for a parser and realise that you've made a rule that is left-recursive and that the parser library you're using doesn't do left-recursive grammar?

I do

does it support self-left recursion?

in vyxal?

@lyxal thats why i advocated for prefix modifiers :P

@Sʨɠɠan this happens no matter where the modifiers go dumbnut :p

?

12:21 PM

Whether you have element := element modifier or element := modifier element, the scala library is still going to not like it

what language are you building that's complex enough to require a parser generator?

hm

I wonder

I wonder what language I could possibly be working on

Surely golfing languages are always regular?

okay, I'm done

@lyxal presenting: Waltuhfuck

> don't
< away
+ angry
- to
. put
, get
[ waltuh,
] waltuh.

here's hello world:

angry angry angry angry angry angry angry angry waltuh, don't angry angry angry angry waltuh, don't angry angry don't angry angry angry don't angry angry angry don't angry away away away away to waltuh. don't angry don't angry don't to don't don't angry waltuh, away waltuh. away to waltuh. don't don't put don't to to to put angry angry angry angry angry angry put put angry angry angry don't don't put away to put away put angry angry angry put to to to to to to put to to to to to to to to put
don't don't angry put don't angry angry

3

This was ~~not~~ a good idea

@mousetail its actually way more fun than making golf/esolangs

@lyxal #2 is not left recursive?

12:24 PM

@Sʨɠɠan I know

But I'm thinking about practical language design

Like the things that annoy me the most with conventional frameworks

all the programs in Waltuhfuck just look like a markov chain trying to calm waltuh down

I appreciate how there is 0 concistency between matching symbols

except [] I guess

yup

But even there it's far from helpful

@Sʨɠɠan well it still errors

i think

12:31 PM

nice sympy is exactly at 52.2k commits

@lyxal i also wonder this. Is it vyxal?

@lyxal screw it I'mma gon post-process stuff

@thejonymyster it very well may be :p

What the deuce

i didnt realize vyxal needed tricky parsing

well previously it used a hand-made parser

I wanted to use a library for version 3

@mousetail like?

@lyxal you havent actually tried it?

if it did error on 2, thats a terrible parser lib you got there

12:36 PM

It's hard to define rules that apply to many routes and it's hard to see what rules apply to a specific route.

i dont what u talking about

syntax?

@lyxal just take the source code, reverse it, and use right-recursive rules :-)

So I want to use Inform 7 synax, it will look something like this:

@Sʨɠɠan no I mean I have, I just didn't know if I was doing it right

View user profile is a API route.
The endpoint of the view user profile route is "/user/[user_id]".
The user profile route requires log in. The user profile route returns JSON.
To get the result of the user profile route:
   Find the user with id user_id
   Return all public fields

12:40 PM

ah

Before handling a route that requires log in:
    if the user is not logged in:
        cancel the request as not authorized

Basically, you can add events to various categories then add rules to those categories

py3_and_c_programmer

@mousetail those instructions are plain english

Imagine a language called literal english

whatever the challenge asks for, we do it in literal form

@py3_and_c_programmer They are not. They follow a very specific grammar

2

they are meant to be readable like english though but to write you need to know the syntax

2

py3_and_c_programmer

I know, but the thing is it's pretty similar to readable english

say, gimme a challenge @mousetail

@thejonymyster I don’t understand the comment you left on my sandbox challenge

12:45 PM

oh lol sorry that was a joke :P explanation to follow:

Oh I got it I think

you think you can score 0 with incident but the margin is too small etc.

@py3_and_c_programmer This one: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/205163/counting-characters

@Fatalize yea lol i cba to write a program to do it but its probably doable lol

good challenge though yea

Yeah I know getting 0 is probably possible with certain golflangs, though you have the byte count tie break then

would it be like, source-layout?

12:46 PM

pretty hard to get 0 with a regular language though

py3_and_c_programmer

no something else @mousetail my quine skills are very rusty

@thejonymyster I haven’t thought about the tags actually, please suggest things

I don't understand what you are looking for

py3_and_c_programmer

start with somethig simple

like "Hello World" or triangular numbers

168

Q: Implement a Truth-Machine

A truth-machine (credits goes to this guy for coming up with it) is a very simple program designed to demonstrate the I/O and control flow of a language. Here's what a truth-machine does: Gets a number (either 0 or 1) from STDIN. If that number is 0, print out 0 and terminate. If that number is...

12:47 PM

well code-golf obviously but lemme read up on other potentially relevant tags

wait not code golf im bad :P

py3_and_c_programmer

Get a number from the user as "Z"
if "Z" is of value 1 then print out 1 forever
or else print 0 and terminate

which is obviously not very short

@thejonymyster code challenge I guess

py3_and_c_programmer

@mousetail Ok my opinion is that "your simple" == "my hard"

@Fatalize self-scoring subsequence?

Ah yes self-scoring is the one

thanks

12:51 PM

In Inform 7 this would be more like:

Let Z be input from the user
If Z equals "1":
forever:
output "1"
else:
output "0"

indented like python

py3_and_c_programmer

Looks like inform 7 follows my algebra teacher's syntax for answering problems

which is very tedious, i assure you

speaking of indenting i just realized replying to a message makes your entire message be indented to align with the reply icon

The idea for my language is that you can use the rule system and highly advanced ORM to avoid needing to write much code at all

py3_and_c_programmer

What is your language?

Mine is a work in progress

which i will not reveal just yet

Oh my languages is still in the ideation phase

Still not sure if it would be practical

py3_and_c_programmer

12:53 PM

mine is still with a lot of #FIXMEs

that reminds me i should try and implement todo

py3_and_c_programmer

drive.google.com/file/d/1e-TaracN540gwrjRdhEIUp2zqiIMGykT/…

maybe by now i know a bit more about functions n stuff to implement this beast

py3_and_c_programmer

user image

> by thejonymyster

[category: unimplemented]

py3_and_c_programmer

12:56 PM

I didn't believe it at first

dw abt it anyone can write an esolangs page :P

what's so surprising about that? half of my answers are in a different esolang i wrote xd

Luckily not everyone can create a language, there are some scary unimplemented languages on there that I hope never see the light of day

2

py3_and_c_programmer

Like what

@mousetail I do not think so

I'm pretty much only <REDACTED> and yet I'm making one

Speaking of languages here's my joke webpage: drive.google.com/file/d/10srnuMZUSmIiTzejZGK8HqmwclUPMobs/…

Not malicious I promise

what's the deal with the weird stars?

It's daytime IDK

12:59 PM

funny (not really)

py3_and_c_programmer

They're called stars

ha

@py3_and_c_programmer ...this is the same webpage you used to try to rickroll us earlier

It was meant to be "Funny (not really)"

@py3_and_c_programmer a good chunk of my answers are in headass, example example example

okay no I'm done

js.html

py3_and_c_programmer

12:59 PM

Oh shoot drive doesn't make webpages

wtf. no.

@Ginger elaborate?

py3_and_c_programmer

only the source code

screw you google

only a spoonful

@thejonymyster there are like 3 random messages with only one star

py3_and_c_programmer

1:00 PM

@mathcat you fell for what i think you fell for?

no I didn't

I just saw js.html.

@Ginger mixed reviews i suppose :P

we have already told you to not share malicious code here

py3_and_c_programmer

Hey does rickrolls count as malicious?

yes, very :b

1:01 PM

i personally enjoy that "scary unimplemented languages" message and think its really funny and true

py3_and_c_programmer

@Ginger Nah it'll stay there forever

unless @cairdcoinheringaahing removes it

oh no did I wake caird up?

@py3_and_c_programmer my uncle died in a rickrolling accident. he rick rolled right off the hill

285

Q: We're no strangers to code golf, you know the rules, and so do I

Write the shortest program that prints the entire lyrics of "Never Gonna Give You Up" by Rick Astley. Rules: Must output the lyrics exactly as they appear in the above pastebin*. Here's the raw dump: http://pastebin.com/raw/wwvdjvEj Cannot rely on any external resources - all lyrics must be ge...

code-golf kolmogorov-complexity

@Fatalize how do you figure "enter" and "test" share 5 subsequences of consecutive elements? The substrings (if that's what you mean by subsequences of consecutive elements) of "test" are ["t", "te", "tes", "test", "e", "es", "est", "s", "st", "t"] and the substrings of "enter" are ["e", "en", "ent", "ente", "enter", "n", "nt", "nte", "nter", "t", "te", "ter", "e", "er", "r"] - there's only 4 overlaps there

py3_and_c_programmer

@thejonymyster your name is Jonathan Astley?

just thinking

1:03 PM

@py3_and_c_programmer you need to read this conversation

py3_and_c_programmer

@Ginger I have to, or can i choose to?

We need more metagolf questions, they are very fun

@py3_and_c_programmer you should read it

quality of joke as a function of usage is roughly a parabola

@lyxal You can build 5 different couples of equal elements: [t,t], [t,t], [te,te],[e,e],[e,e]

1:04 PM

especially because you remind me of @SegFaultPlus4 a lot

which direction the parabola is pointing is up to you to decide

py3_and_c_programmer

@mousetail this was the exact question that marked my first (lyric) challenge as a duplicate

@Fatalize ah, that makes a little more sense

@lyxal And it doesn’t matter which string is first. Pick a substrings from one, count the number of times it matches with substrings from the other one, repeat for all substrings

py3_and_c_programmer

@mousetail i disagree

1:06 PM

@py3_and_c_programmer Ok

@Fatalize maybe add that in the post really quick just for clarity, in case other people get confused the same way

py3_and_c_programmer

parabolas are very complicated

@mousetail this is clever, have you implemented it?

No, I have previously implemented a parser for a similar language though so I do beleive I can make it work unambiguously

2

Q: Count the shared substrings with 2 programs

Write 2 programs which count the number of shared subsequences of consecutive elements from 2 given sequences. For example, given "test" and "enter", there are 5 shared subsequences of consecutive elements: t t e e te Scoring Your score will be the result of one of your program, when given your ...

subsequence self-scoring

1:11 PM

@thejonymyster Done

py3_and_c_programmer

Clap Clap Clap

language which has ambiguous syntax

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster Ones which basically make the language a different language fit well with out policy of considering different flag combinations their own languages

yea that makes sense

like i get that i can have flags do whatever but i was also wondering from a like, design / quality perspective :P

@lyxal so from your answer, you’re saying my challenge rewards poorly designed languages? :p

1:18 PM

far from it

I'm saying my inability to design a language without 3 different built-ins doing the same thing has come in clutch :p

you mean with

double negative moment

bruh I saw him edit but to add a double negative

I was confused

i'm not saying that my inability to fail to design a language without 3 non-identical builtins doing nondistinct things hasn't failed to come in clutch

Radvylf Programs

@thejonymyster The double negative here means something different though

"ability to do this thing" and "inability to not do this thing" carry different meanings

1:21 PM

true that

lmao at the synchronicity of these comments

Congratulations you just got the joke :p

But really why though

as I said, an inability to design a golfing language without 3 different built-ins doing the same thing

you want to lowercase a string? take your pick from ɽ and ⇩

do they ever do other things

1:24 PM

raise 2 to the power of a number? E or Ǎ

You’re the type of person that copy-pastes the existing implementation of Vyxal’s cartesian product to implement Vyxal’s cartesian product

now admittedly, Π and Ẋ work a little differently

Π is cartesian product of list of lists, while Ẋ is cartesian product of two items on the stack

I'm not that bad at language design guys trust me

2o

wow i cant type

take your time :-)

@Fatalize lies!

Copilot does that for us :p

1:28 PM

@thejonymyster protip: dont change keyboard settings on touchscreens

@lyxal i trust you :P

@lyxal feature request: have your cgcc answer generator from Vyxal’s website add the github link in the language name

it does

I typed the header manually

and forgot the link

Feature request: type the link

Lyxal closed issue #1473 (type the link)

I wanted to look up the implementation of your 2 cartesian products, but then realized I had to find them in Vyxal’s repo

not courageous enough for that

1:33 PM

where is cartesia anyway

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/main/vyxal/elements.py#L817 that's 2 argument cartesian

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/main/vyxal/elements.py#L4269 that's the list of lists overload of product

github.com/Vyxal/Vyxal/blob/main/vyxal/elements.py#L725 that's the helper used by the product function

@lyxal interesting way to advertise vyxal :P

huh, turns out there's 3 ways to get cartesian product

3

@lyxal wha-

Þ*, Π, Ẋ

1:35 PM

nice

facepalm

very cool language design :P

approved

ping me when he finds the fourth one

@lyxal Can you write a third answer to the problem just to flex?

@thejonymyster i dont think there is a fourth way :P

1:37 PM

@mousetail I would, but there's no third way of getting substrings/sublists

you could do it manually :P

I think he already does in the first program

kinda

no third built-in that gets substrings/sublists I mean

ÞS is sublists, ǎ is substrings

im saying do it manually My First Program style by like, looping through indices :-)

Do you have builtins for getting non-empty prefixes and suffixes?

1:39 PM

@thejonymyster but lol idk if you can do that haha

You can get the prefixes and then get all the suffixes of those.

@GrainGhost I do

oh good idea

user image

8

... what is in my search history

Now I'd like to know. What is the square root of a cheeseburger?

1:41 PM

probably some stupid javascript type coercion

oh wow 5 stars already

idk what i was thinking when i seemingly typed that a long time ago

probably something really important

Radvylf Programs

@Sʨɠɠan It was closer to 2m when you sent that

@Sʨɠɠan yelp.com/biz/square-root-burger-flagstaff-3

CMQ: What's the strangest thing in your search history?

1:44 PM

@Fatalize ?

you on the right branch?

Nevermind I can’t read

@Ginger I have firefox set on "never save history" so nothing

user image

@Sʨɠɠan Ok but which answer is correct

cheese[burger]?

Radvylf Programs

I can't find anything super weird, but I can find an instance of some pretty extreme multitasking:

user image

1:46 PM

Apparently the answer is cheese, since there’s no burger to be seen

True

looks like mine

So does this mean cheese squared = cheeseburger

@RadvylfPrograms for my own amusement i will pretend these were all for the same purpose

/ project

user image

Radvylf Programs

1:47 PM

In order to better compress an image containing information about the founding fathers' beliefs on federations vs. confederations, I needed to ensure my Cisco 7841 VoIP phone was updated, and could only compress the image well if it used a humanist font

user image

what the hell happened here

Radvylf Programs

> convert nano sievert to millisievert

when you can't divide by a million :p

shameful

nuclier physicist here

im at work so my search history is just work and yall

1:51 PM

Wait I’m not on the first page of users per rep anymore

I’m mad

no, you're Fatalize

gottem

new users grow up so fast these days :p

How long do you have be to on this site to no longer be new?

there are two kinds of people in this world: the rick and the roller

and I have decided to be the one who does the rolling

^^^

1:53 PM

@mousetail I’d say one year

@mousetail lyxal has a jaded perspective because he's visited every single day for about 3 years

Ok I think that technically makes meold

same lol

well not Old but

medium

Yea medium rare

:9

1:54 PM

not today lyxal

My first answer was on June 22, 2015 ._.

my first answer, and every now and then i revisit it to golf it but i cant ever find anything lol

gah I'm going to have to come back to the third way to that subsequence challenge after a good night's sleep

?¦Ṙv¦⟑(n⅛]_¾:(¼_)?¦Ṙv¦⟑(n⅛]_¾W⟑⟑⟑}28ø⟇×+Ė is what I currently have

what does it do so far

can't use Þ* because that'd give a shared subsequence

@thejonymyster get the subsequences of both lists, uses Þ* in a sneaky way using some eval trickery

1:57 PM

nice

> W⟑⟑⟑

Wario in the code

Well I'm off for the night

Radvylf Programs

@Ginger happy caterpillar

sleep beckons and it's 1 am

later nerds :p

Radvylf Programs

1:57 PM

o/

It’s only 4pm you upside-down liar

5

lmao

@Fatalize I see you are a ******** of culture as well

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The Nineteenth Byte

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