The Nineteenth Byte

Neil

00:12

@lyxal that's a funny way of saying 2m³

OldSandboxPosts

01:00

Sandbox posts last active a week ago: Make Spanish from Latin

Aiden Chow

just managed to solve "reverse odd runs" in desmos :D, it was quite hard to puzzle out

thejonymyster

thats why youre the desmos master

Wezl oOvOo

02:29

haHÁ! I found a loophole! I can post inane messages when the TTNB is inactive, and noone will be unlazy enough to reply or move them!

and another loophole - I can post cat pictures but everyone will either ignore them so noone will discover that they're cat pictures until they click the link or they'll reply which means a conversation might start so entertainment either way

I just hope noone steals and abuses my loophole except for me or there would be no inactive times

by the way, to keep this one-person discussion on-topic, the above message is 97 bytes :P

thejonymyster

@WezloOvOo 96 bytes

Radvylf Programs

Weird idea I had a while ago: Unicode "shortcut words" that encode a whole common word with a single character

thejonymyster

tbh im down

Radvylf Programs

E.g., "information" is a fairly common word, but it's 12 characters. If it was U+789ABCD or whatever it'd be way shorter

des54321

this seems like it would cause way more problems than it would solve, i love it

thejonymyster

02:39

its simple: systems that recognized the encoding would autofill the correct data, and systems that didnt would ban you forever

no uh thatd be a fun way to use private use characters lol

@RadvylfPrograms and => &

Wezl oOvOo

yay conversation

also that is nOT what unicode is for and it rUINS everything but cool idea anyway

but sadly gn

des54321

incomplete list of problems this would create:
* endless compatibility issues
* copypasting things is way weirder sometimes
* monospace fonts can get fucked
problems this solves:
* text data, famously something that takes up a very large amount of bandwidth, is now slightly more compact

Wezl oOvOo

^

Radvylf Programs

More issues:
* Alphabetizing/sorting
* Moving the cursor within the shortened word
* Font incompatiblity
* Breaking the character into pieces if it doesn't fit on a line

Wezl oOvOo

(if you reply to this message it would be way too meta and since this message specifically mentions that possibility if you replied to this message it would be way too meta so please don't)

des54321

02:46

vaguely relevant xkcd i literally just stumbled upon looking at old xkcds: xkcd.com/1953

2048: "Great news for Maine—we're once again an independent state!!! Thanks, @unicode, for ruling in our favor and sending troops to end New Hampshire's annexation. 🙏🚁🎖️"

thejonymyster

@thejonymyster is this golfable

i dont have any tools but ive been scanning it manually and trying a bunch of stuff and i dont think it is lol

PyGamer0

03:11

just realized LDW isnt at the samw time as LYAL

Bubbler

03:22

@des54321 obligatory mention of Rust since it contains "crustacean"

PyGamer0

@Bubbler lol, do you know rust?

i think i have used rust a couple of times

just because i contributed to this

Bubbler

04:00

Well, I have github.com/Bubbler-4/rust-problem-solving and github.com/Bubbler-4/TryInBrowser

Nobody Needs Names

wait, can i be the owner of this post:

13

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, me, round): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. The arguments it take in are info, ...

because I edit it about 10 times more often than @23TuringMachine

in Off-Topic TNB, 34 mins ago, by PyGamer0

@NobodyNeedsNames just make your own \o/

@RadvylfPrograms @emanresuA help!

hyper-neutrino

04:21

a) I don't think transfering ownership is a thing b) I don't see why making you the owner is something we should do

@NobodyNeedsNames your ping in the off-topic room was seen, please stop spamming pings

23TuringMachine

04:40

I'll give a bountry of 150 rep to one of your answers, @NobodyNeedsNames. This should cover it.

Sorry for the trouble!

Nobody Needs Names

wait

what

oh man

thanks

techniclly it should be 100 rep because there's 13 upvotes and part of it was you op course...

i was thinking if we can just make a mod transfer the ownership, but now if we do that too, everything is going to be mixed up... but aye, who needs rep...

the most frustrating is how i don't get notices of new posts/edits/comments/...

Newly Featured Posts

13

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, me, round): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. The arguments it take in are info, ...

king-of-the-hill python

att

@NobodyNeedsNames isn't that what "follow" is for?

Nobody Needs Names

05:13

ok i'll try

and also every time i edit it has to be approved...

@att .

Aiden Chow

@thejonymyster lol im getting my ass whooped by fireflame241 on discord rn, hes got my code golfed down a lot with some insane strat i cant even comprehend

like bruh tf is this wizardry??? desmos.com/calculator/v2svyztnel

bruh this man gotta stop O_O: desmos.com/calculator/72qod8uclf

Bubbler

fireflame is just genius

Aiden Chow

05:38

yea especially in desmos, he just knows so much about it

Nobody Needs Names

05:53

can anyone link to his pf...?

how much rep do you think i will get from accepted edits of speedupslowpoke?

and is there a way to make me the owner of

13

Q: Speed up, slowpoke!

In this king-of-the-hill challenge, you will program a bot, consisting of a python function of the form def BOTNAME(info, me, round): pass # ... main body Specifically, the function must run in python3.9. Each bot will be entered into the contest 10 times. The arguments it take in are info, ...

king-of-the-hill python

? mods? staff? @hyper-neutrino for instance?

Bubbler

2 hours ago, by hyper-neutrino

a) I don't think transfering ownership is a thing b) I don't see why making you the owner is something we should do

@NobodyNeedsNames hyper already answered your question, and the answer is no

Nobody Needs Names

oh sorry, i didn't see that

Nobody Needs Names

06:24

Hi, @lyxal

pxeger

07:15

Can I use my shiny new VTD button to delete invalid answers? Or should I reserve it only for obvious spam etc.?

Wheat Wizard

Does BQN have a special codepage?

Nobody Needs Names

what's VTD?

What's BQN...

pxeger

Yes: github.com/mlochbaum/BQN/blob/master/commentary/sbcs.bqn

mathcat

@pxeger nice, 20k rep!

pxeger

16 hours ago, by pxeger

yay

Bubbler

07:25

@NobodyNeedsNames VTD: Vote To Delete (a button you get when you have lots of rep), BQN is the name of a language

mathcat

@pxeger I got 4k rep now

pxeger

@NobodyNeedsNames This may help you: codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/12538

Wheat Wizard

@pxeger I think it's ok? You can only VTD certain posts with low enough score. I think it's generally better if moderators handle invalid posts, since we leave a message informing the user etc.

pxeger

@NobodyNeedsNames A programming language like APL. mlochbaum.github.io/BQN

Nobody Needs Names

07:51

ok

Wheat Wizard

@23TuringMachine Don't use bounties to transfer reputation. That's not what bounties are for.

Nobody Needs Names

@WheatWizard Then how?

Wheat Wizard

Don't transfer reputation.

Nobody Needs Names

Why

Wheat Wizard

That's not how SE works. Bounties exist to reward good answers, that's their purpose.

Nobody Needs Names

07:57

I mean, why don't transfer reputation

Wheat Wizard

Because that's not how SE works Reputation is not a currency.

Nobody Needs Names

OK

mathcat

08:19

What happens if you skip the sandbox?

I'm gonna risk it and find out

If I'm not online for the next week or so, you know why ^

Bubbler

It will cause people to comment "please use the sandbox next time"

mathcat

okay good

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

How far from binary? Given a decimal integer n as input, output the smallest (in absolute value) decimal integer m such that n-m is a binary integer (composed only of 1s and 0s). n and m can be any integer, positive or negative. Test Cases Input n Output m 0 0 ...

Wheat Wizard

08:37

I usually don't sandbox. However I have asked 200+ questions already so I have some experience. It's always a bit of a risk, but if you are comfortable it can be fine not to sandbox.

mathcat

I usually don't notice mistakes with my posts, so I think I'll keep using the sandbox.

pxeger

Even the socratic Wheat Wizard does make mistakes with questions: codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/246707

Wheat Wizard

Yes good example.

I want to fix that sometime.

4

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Unicode Clock Plot contrivance You wake up to find that something has gone horribly wrong! Your time machine has malfunctioned and you are lost sometime between June 2022 and October 1991. You check the computer that you keep on the desk to see what time it is, but alas the positron interference...

Should I actually post this? I'm a little surprised to see 4 score.

pxeger

My main worry is that someone is just gonna work out the optimal series of changes between unicode versions, and then all other answers will just be translations of that

Bubbler

08:52

> little two subjective

₂subjective

pxeger

lol I reckon I've red that sentence three times and not noticed that

Nobody Needs Names

yah, me to

@WheatWizard instantly checks the profile ~~i just have to post 190 more rubbish questions to trash the sandbox~~

(I'm joking I'm not going to do that)

~~You're not JoKing, you're Nobody Needs Names...~~

PyGamer0

10:45

i have come from school and i am sad because LDW will start in 1 hour and 15 minutes

that is the time when i go to play with my friends lol

Nobody Needs Names

10:57

haha

user

I am happy, it’s at a pretty reasonable time for me

Nobody Needs Names

I'm probably going to attent next week

because of nasty testies.

but I'm sure you will be interested in superior simple

PyGamer0

@user yeah lol

Nobody Needs Names

Superior Simple

Superior Simple: A 2D programming language. See github.com/Sup...

gotta go o/

PyGamer0

11:14

@PyGamer0 oh boy past me... you are SO WRONG

user

lol

Yeah real langs need a lot more thinking unless you’re just doing a Java clone or something

Nobody Needs Names

11:31

Can someone advertise SuperiorSimple when I'm gone? Thanks

mathcat

dah why will I get paid?

PyGamer0

^

Nobody Needs Names

@mathcat wait, wdym

mathcat

Will I get paid to advertise Superior Simple?

(15 cents per click?)

Nobody Needs Names

No

mathcat

11:35

okay :/

Nobody Needs Names

:〈

mathcat

duplicate the input and empty list in vyxal

but okay

Nobody Needs Names

wait

what?

mathcat

nvm

Nobody Needs Names

is that :/ or :〈

mathcat

11:42

:〈

Nobody Needs Names

o ok

what about :/

mathcat

duplicate and divide

Nobody Needs Names

sensible...

where is vyxal's codepage

Fatalize

What’s the goal of the language design workshop? To design a new language collectively, or to present feedback on how some languages were designed?

Nobody Needs Names

why would it contain a rare Chinese punctuation mark...

@Fatalize kind of in between

mathcat

11:44

@Fatalize probably #2

Fatalize

Waiting for "probably #1" now

:p

user

Probably #1 (just kidding, what PyGamer said)

PyGamer0

@Fatalize its mostly for feedback

i think

Nobody Needs Names

feedback (2) on wip languages (1)

so both, sort of

user

I guess giving feedback is sort of "designing a language collectively"

Fatalize

11:47

Is there like a planning, or are people just chiming in chat randomly?

PyGamer0

people just chim in i guess

mathcat

As I've understood it, it's the Tarpit but TNB

PyGamer0

10 more minutes

Nobody Needs Names

@NobodyNeedsNames oh wait they aren't the same character, they just look similar

Why does that pin me, argh

New Posts

0

Q: Universal Unicode Clock

Plot contrivance You wake up to find that something has gone horribly wrong! Your time machine has malfunctioned and you are lost sometime between June 2022 and October 1991. You check the computer that you keep on the desk to see what time it is, but alas the positron interference from your qua...

Wezl oOvOo

11:54

now I'm actually glad I woke up on time

PyGamer0

lol

mathcat

@NewPosts popcorn!

Nobody Needs Names

what's popcorn supposed to mean again?

user

Popularity Corntest

Nobody Needs Names

yes indeed.

TDW in TNB begins!!!

Wezl oOvOo

12:01

I mean... people have designed languages in workshops before :P

lyxal

Hello everyone and welcome to the first-ever Language Design Workshop. The general premise is that y'all can post work you've done or are doing on esolangs and people will give feedback. In short, y'all'll get to show off our languages and their features, chat about them, get feedback, try out WIP languages, and, hopefully get ideas over the next 24 hours.

14

→ 3 messages moved to Off-Topic TNB

Nobody Needs Names

and.... we've got nothing.

and.... I probably have to leave. o/

mathcat

nice

lyxal

I'mma kick things off with asking for what y'all think about these functions as core functions / things golfing languages should probably include

Obviously languages wouldn't need all functions, but it could serve as a general guide

PyGamer0

what is ring translate?

lyxal

12:07

and yes, it's in the Vyxal repo because it's also planning for version 3 of Vyxal, so feedback on suitability for Vyxal would be appreciated too

mathcat

@PyGamer0 I'd guess just rotating a string

lyxal

@PyGamer0 one sec, just gotta get the description Stax gives

> Map matching elements to the subsequent element in the translation ring. The ring wraps around.

Wezl oOvOo

funny how golfing languages often end up bigger than most esolangs - even the ones designed to be bad at golfing

Nobody Needs Names

i've got a new idea for superior simple

you tile it like a checker board

mathcat

and what's 2nip?

lyxal

12:09

@PyGamer0 soring_translate("abc", "bc") -> "acb"

Nobody Needs Names

0O0O0O0O
O0O0O0O0
0O0O0O0O
O0O0O0O0
0O0O0O0O
O0O0O0O0
0O0O0O0O
O0O0O0O0

PyGamer0

@lyxal oh i understand..

Nobody Needs Names

And if the command is on 0 does something different from O

PyGamer0

@lyxal will that be a diagraph or a monagraph?

Nobody Needs Names

@lyxal so like ringtrans("somestringcontainingsubstring","sub")->"somestring containingbusstring"

?

lyxal

12:11

@mathcat say your stack is [1, 2, 3]. 2nip pops the 2 items under the first, making the stack [3]

Nobody Needs Names

and ...(ababab,ab)=bababa?

mathcat

@lyxal ah I get it

lyxal

@NobodyNeedsNames no. "uomeutringcontainingubsutring"

all s gets turned into u, all u gets turned into b, and all b gets turned into s

@PyGamer0 overload of a monograph probably

Nobody Needs Names

oh

lyxal

@PyGamer0 something where str, str doesn't exactly make sense otherwise

Nobody Needs Names

12:13

for instance *

I think...?

lyxal

well that's what it currently is

but it's subject to change

Nobody Needs Names

wait, really

well done, me

the best golflang will have only one way to throw an error.

mathcat

I've been working on Curo too and just finished the tokenizer, feedback?

(yes I used js because pythonanywhere is to complicated for me)

lyxal

if (current_num) {
        number += char;
      } else {
        number += char;
        current_num = true;
      }

can be simplified

number += char;
current_num = true;

mathcat

oh lol

that's really stupid

Fatalize

12:19

For Brachylog users: what do you feel is the single biggest design problem about the language?

Nobody Needs Names

bye

o/

Fatalize

My own opinion: golfing languages really benefit from being able to refer to multiple different variables/inputs with no explicit naming (e.g. tacit with Jelly), and Brachylog being restricted to predicates with arities of 2 is a big problem, because you often have to wrap/unwrap stuff in lists

Predicates can have any arity in Prolog. I guess this limitation arose because of the syntax that I decided for the language, with left-to-right chains of inputs/outputs

tl;dr.: if you design a language, try to have tacit/automatic naming of inputs with no restriction on their number

lyxal

is that even possible with a stack language?

Fatalize

Don’t some stack languages have aliases for e.g. the first element of the stack, the second, etc.?

Or maybe you should design it so that you have a stack containing only the inputs, and another "working" stack

lyxal

@Fatalize that's explicitly referencing the items though.

Fatalize

12:32

What I mean is that in Brachylog you have no direct way of e.g. referencing the 2 element of the input if it’s a list

which is often a problem

Nobody Needs Names

i once thought of a language with 9 stacks

thejonymyster

crazy idea but maybe have identical commands that only differ in where they grab their inputs :P

also i wish i could participate more in ldw but im at work OTL

though i dont really have anything to show :P all i have is this stupid thing which is most certainly not going to be used by anyone for anything lolol

Nobody Needs Names

and one of the stack is used to store the unexecuted program, another for the executed

gotta go, tho o/

thejonymyster

only linking because its slightly relevant :P i need to work on my actual golflang proj more before i can share anything y_y

@Fatalize are you going to be making something brachylogical? :)

Fatalize

@thejonymyster No, I’m done making languages

I guess the biggest feedback I have for LDW is this: creating a language that kind of works takes a LOT of time

10

Nobody Needs Names

12:38

how many rep does sb. have to have for editting

Nobody Needs Names

12:51

???

thejonymyster

sb.?

PyGamer0

alright

can y'all try out flax

Nobody Needs Names

@thejonymyster comebody

PyGamer0

and see how cool it is :P

and maybe find bugs

Nobody Needs Names

ok

Maybe add more explained examples...

thejonymyster

12:54

@NobodyNeedsNames 2k, but check here

Nobody Needs Names

i mean, suggest one

@thejonymyster .

thejonymyster

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

did some searching, couldnt find anything

Nobody Needs Names

shrug

Nobody Needs Names

13:38

~~... and LDW is dead. Time to write up another Meta post~~

Wezl oOvOo

13:49

29 / 310 = 9.4%

thejonymyster

i wonder though if its going to be an issue of like... not everyone who is interested in new langs is working on a new lang :P

but yeah its still early, i know im personally still at work idk abt everyone else

i'll try and bounce some of my ~~awful~~ ideas off when i'm free :)

lyxal

keep in mind chat is usually quiet at this time of day, so it could just be that it's the usually inactivity right now

Wezl oOvOo

@WezloOvOo it's confirmed, if you click on a link in one of Wezl's messages, it's most likely to not be a rickroll

thejonymyster

@lyxal right i meant to get at that as well

i said it in my brain but forgot to type it as words

lang thought: designing a lang to solve a specific challenge is bad; but i wonder if looking at some specific challenges as a guide to how you structure your lang in general is interesting

Superior Simple

Transcript for