The Nineteenth Byte

I genuinely thought you were emanresuA for a moment

<whisper> ssh, don't let them know

1:44 AM

ssh: Could not resolve hostname dont let them know
: Name or service not known

3

Aiden Chow

1:58 AM

@emanresuA Desmos 32 bytes: f(l)=[1...l.length][l>join(0,l)]

> vectorises? Cool, didn't know that

Aiden Chow

@emanresuA yeah, basically most operators that you can think of vectorizes in Desmos

2:49 AM

Y'all ever just breath? Because I do

I don't breath

whoever even does that

Whoa wearing polarised sunglasses in a car with tinted windows makes everything look trippy

i can imagine

Makes everything so colourful

> Don't feel pressured to learn another language because of the stereotypes associated with the one you're using now. If you're comfortable with Python, use it. It didn't get to be the 2nd most commonly used programming language in the world by being a children's toy. Anything you can do in C++, you can do in Pythion, unless you're doing something that requires crazy performance. C/C++ people love to call Python programmers kiddies, but a lot of the time I think they're just jealous :p

2:53 AM

I know too many languages :p

rather, pressure to use something other than python should come from within

I know some languages, am learning one, and am trying to unlearn a specific one

Any guesses as to what that one is?

PHP?

Second guess: JS

Third guess: SQL

Fourth guess: Java

yeah i'd guess java or sql

doubt anyone has learned php to begin with these days

and as fucked as js is it's also js

Is it worth it to learn PHP IYO? New programmer (been trying to learn for a year or two now).

2:56 AM

@RadvylfPrograms Correct

@Pyautogui Nah. Anything you can do with PHP you can do with JS

@Pyautogui No, PHP is dying pretty quickly and has been for a while

afaik php's pretty much a fossil at this point

Thanks

@emanresuA Ruby?

2:57 AM

it blew up because its ecosystem was relatively convenient to develop in but it's been surpassed

PHP is a very fast and easy way to add horrible unmaintainable code, security vulnerabilities, and other fun stuff to your projects

@Pyautogui Depends on what you want to use it for, but I don't know much about PHP and am inclined to agree with others above

why would you ever unlearn ruby

Nah, ruby's cool

granted i haven't learned ruby

but it seems cool

2:57 AM

Ruby looks cool from a distance, at least

Like a better Perl

I know a little bit of ruby but I haven't used it in ages

Node.js, Rust, Go, or Python are what I'd aim for if I were just starting out and were looking for something back-end

not Rust

why not rust

rust is based

Node.js and Python because they're beginner friendly and not going anywhere any time soon, Rust and Go as more advanced ones

2:58 AM

Seems way to cryptic to me

Rust is definitely the future, for lower level stuff

I'd prefer Node

rust is just Funky C

i need to get back to learning it

I though Rust had functional bits?

Rust and Node serve much different purposes, though

2:59 AM

Unlike C

@UnrelatedString I know C++ and can't even write proper C code lol

@Seggan Given its huge fan club, that's not an opinion everyone shares

it has tons of functional bits

@Pyautogui Yes, it's a lot like Haskell

takes after haskell a lot

2:59 AM

@emanresuA what category?

Do you recommend it for someone to get into the function paradigm?

The type inference is just...*mwah*

reminds me i need to yell at my friend to learn haskell again

Rust is definitely pretty cryptic, but advanced C code is also pretty cryptic. Rust just has a very steep learning curve.

@Pyautogui Not really, I'd suggest a "real" FP language like Haskell itself (or Scala)

3:00 AM

Thanks. Good to know

@Pyautogui No, I'd go with something more functional. Rust is more meant for low-level stuff, like as a replacement for C.

@Pyautogui functional languages definitely make for nice succinct code (speaking from a Clojure perspective)

@RadvylfPrograms Definitely worth it for the safety

Even JS isn't that bad for functional stuff, if you just want to dip your toes in it

you'd appreciate rust's functional elements better after learning a proper functional language

3:00 AM

although functional languages suck at applications programming imo

@Seggan How's Clojure btw? I started learning it but was scared off by how different from Java it was and the scary errors

clojure is fun

Love it

@Seggan Yeah, IMO functional programming is more for the experience right now than the final product :p

Cool, I should take a stab at it again

3:01 AM

What about LISPs? Are they actually functional? Kind of confused on that part.

@RadvylfPrograms I mean, if you're not doing performance-critical stuff, having readable, maintainable code is pretty important

@user kinda difficult to get off the imperative paradigm tho. most iteration is transformation of lists

@Pyautogui I think they're sorta like the original functional language, IIRC

@Pyautogui Some are, some aren't. I think Schemes are functional (Clojure, which Seggan recommended above, is functional (and seems to inherit from Scheme?))

@user +1

@emanresuA you gonna give any hints?

3:02 AM

Thanks. Good to know!

You should try Racket btw, it's close to Scheme but aimed at beginners

Not the fanciest IDE, but you can make your own languages and everything

wait racket has an ide

I am currently taking a course on Racket. A rather slow-paced one (have not gotten past the boring bits yet).

docs.racket-lang.org/drracket

IIRC Scheme is not even a language, just a spec

3:04 AM

They were too chicken to implement it

2

I have one at my home, though

Wait eric wastl made phpsadness?

Ye

yeah

and Vanilla JS™️

@user theres literally a dialect of Scheme called Chicken

i think that's the joke

3:05 AM

There is a thing called a pun, you should look it up :P

@Seggan Redwolf guessed correctly

Those messages were references to Chicken Scheme and Chez Scheme lol

@emanresuA ah, missed that msg

whats yalls opinion of logical langs?

Very cool but I'd love to see a practical one

prolog is
prolog

that's about all i can say lmao

3:08 AM

I'm kinda worried JS is sorta becoming the English of programming

Brachylog is Brachylog

^^ tho Python is a serious competitor

im scared for Java's life

JS, like english, is an awful mix of a bunch of other languages that results in a strange and problematic result. But, it's used all over the place now, and still growing rapidly.

@RadvylfPrograms I'm fine with C-like syntax becoming the English of programming tbh as long as people start teaching introductory classes in better languages, such as Scala

@Seggan Nah, Java will probably the next COBOL in like 60 years

hopefully

3:09 AM

Java 17's out and you've still got people who can't move away from Java 8

Yeah, Java and PHP are the Ottoman Empires of the modern programming language globe

@user I mean Minecraft finally forced its users out of Java 8

tho people still wont get off 1.12

I wish PHP the best thing I can wish for it: a quick death

agree

There are some people who still play 1.8 because they dislike the combat changes in 1.9 so much

3:10 AM

id hate to abandon java tho

the jvm is chill
java as a language should hopefully wane but the rest of the stuff on there is 👌

Eh, stuff like Scala work great in Java's place, and just moving away from OOP in the first place is something I support

@UnrelatedString now that you say it, im more talking about the jvm instead of java lol

Static typing's good if it's Scala or Typescript

lol

@emanresuA ...and it's bad otherwise???

3:11 AM

^

I mean I love Scala but there are loads of cool (and practical) statically typed languages out there

i never tried scala, found kotlin and groovy too complex, think i should try it out?

I'll throw C++ in with Java and PHP honestly

Definitely

^

@user who u replying to

3:12 AM

Although Kotlin is like Scala Lite, so you may find Scala complex? Don't try to learn the whole language at once, just try the basics

@Seggan You

i haven't seen much scala but there's less sort of feature bloat than in kotlin

Rust works pretty well as a replacement for C++, and with a much less diseased-rat-without-a-leg standard library

granted you don't have to figure all the funky stuff out to use kotlin

kotlin has waaaaaaaaaaaaay too many keywords to learn

@UnrelatedString I'd say Scala 2 had more feature bloat lol but I don't know Kotlin

3:13 AM

tho extension functions are quite useful

i do like the stuff kotlin lets you do but it does have some issues

@UnrelatedString Mediocre otherwise

@Seggan You're not going to be happy with Scala then, but those keywords are worth it

oh yeah extension functions are so fucking based

@emanresuA what makes dynamic typing generally preferable

take java, add extension functions and operator overloading, and im as happy as i can be

3:14 AM

I kinda feel like OOP isn't very...good

-1

Scala 3 has extension functions, null safety if you want, your own operators, etc.

I feel like it fails at a lot of its goals

fuck operator overloading tbh

OOP is the holy grail of imperative programming

3:14 AM

@RadvylfPrograms OOP is great as long as you don't abuse it

^

@UnrelatedString Whoa whoa what

I think OOP adds a lot of bloat without actually making code much better

you should be able to use operators according to typeclasses/interfaces

^^

3:15 AM

instead of treating them like funky names

Oh ok that makes sense

java's problem is that it does neither

Rust-style overloading, then?

i... think so

its annoying having to do bigDecimal.add()

3:15 AM

^

^^

Typescript's type system combined with python's overloading would be perfect.

I like operator overloading, but only for things like custom number types

and i will never understand how java programmers don't go insane using .equals()

Making + do things to like, a Printer or a WebSocket reduces readability

3:16 AM

@UnrelatedString i keep typing .equals() for some reason in Python

@RadvylfPrograms By OOP, are you just talking about how Java forces you to make classes everywhere? Or about how it's got lots of unnecessary mutability? Because you can totally do OOP without that ugly stuff and have very nice code

Razetime

inheritance

Scala is both OOP and FP and it makes for some very elegant code

@RadvylfPrograms which is why haskell has Num 😎

Java has Number

they should add overloading for that

3:16 AM

@Razetime Yeah I've been trying to do composition over inheritance recently and it's honestly made everything so much nicer

agree

Event-based programming and structs do a lot of what OOP does but way less janky IMO

@RadvylfPrograms But it makes sense for, say, Point(4, 5)+Point(2, 3) to be Point(6, 8)

i feel like encapsulation is valuable

Algebraic data types are the bomb

@UnrelatedString Definitely

3:17 AM

haven't looked too much into event based programming

@emanresuA Sure, I just don't think operators should be overloaded for things that aren't very clearly related to their original behavior

the real strat is to use algebraic datatypes and encapsulate them with typeclasses

The way OCaml does it is kinda weird, you have a supertype and a module that implements a subtype or something

wacky

so what it think the conclusion of this conversation is that every language is terrible 😂

3:18 AM

hell yeah

Every language is terrible but making one yourself is way worse :p

Let's look at it another way and say that all languages have their strengths,

Razetime

no actually ALGOL 68 is the perfect language

And combining two is even worse

but everything is ultimately meaningless because humanity will go extinct at some point so who even cares aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

3:19 AM

I do all of my programming in Functional HTML++

i want that to exist now

XML-based functional programming language

I love it

yes

<func pure><arg type="string">name</arg><body><return><reference>name</reference></return></body></func>

(A cat program)

All the conciseness of XML with all the accessibility of an FP language

5

3:21 AM

could go for a lisp analogy of some sort

Oh that reminds me, I was working on an OOP "Lisp" monstrosity written in Smalltalk

Called it Oops

🥁

<function name="add" args="num1, num2">
  <setvar v="result">
		<add v1="&num1" v2="&num2" />
  </setvar>
  <returnvar v="result" />
</function>

Smalltalk is so crappy that I abandoned it, I should go back to it

use a prefix for all of the language's tags xslt style to give lyxal ptsd flashbacks

3:23 AM

It was going to have curly braces, no primitives of any sort, no control flow (except recursion and pattern matching)

The star icon's failed to load, so...

Razetime

the void

3:36 AM

@Seggan false.

Every language except APL is terrible

APL has no package manager

Who beeds pacmage manqgers with apl

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

3:52 AM

<fhpp:define name="foldl">
    <fhpp:lambda>
        <fhpp:clause>
            <fhpp:parameter>
                <fhpp:variable name="f"/>
            </fhpp:parameter>
            <fhpp:parameter>
                <fhpp:variable name="x"/>
            </fhpp:parameter>
            <fhpp:parameter>
                <ol>
                    <li>
                        <fhpp:variable name="h"/>
                    </li>
                    <fhpp:tail>
                        <fhpp:variable name="t"/>

DLosc

@emanresuA No chess tonight, sorry--got a late dinner and I'm tired. I'll plan to make a move tomorrow.

@user true.

Sandbox Posts

4:23 AM

0

The Missing Match code-golfstringbalanced-string You are given a string of unknown length that contains a varied amount of (, {, [ (in this context all referred to as braces), and their respective closing parentheses. The braces are all balanced, meaning an opening one has a corresponding closing...

4:34 AM

@lyxal correction: array languages

4:57 AM

in CG&CC-gaming, Oct 25, 2021 at 0:45, by lyxal

Haha snowgrave in 42:17 goes brrr

Today I got that time down to 39:30ish

replying here because gaming is frozen

😔

i don't know why but this reminds me i should probably switch pfps at some point to keep the rhythm going

i don't have any good ideas at the moment
but i do have one *terrible* idea

i already hate this

Oh

Oh frick

the full frame is better but it's still kind of

No why would you make us suffer like this?

yeah

it was really hard to find an alright square crop

also for some reason it seems like the 256x256 size version is corrupted somehow

i.stack.imgur.com/Jkl8f.png?s=256&g=1

5:16 AM

@UnrelatedString wth is that

@emanresuA what about: Typescript's type system with Python's OOP with Javascript's ES6 lambda Syntax with Haskell's functional programming with APL's arrays

the best programming language

Python's Object Oriented Programming abbreviated is POOP lmao

~~fitting~~

I like -> a lot more than =>

^

yeah ok

bbutpython's lambda must be changed to something shorter

js gets away with just the arrow right

5:21 AM

i dont care if its => or ->, both are fine

so just
js syntax except with `-` instead of `=`

so

Typescript's type system with Python's OOP with Javascript's ES6 lambda Syntax except - instead of = with Haskell's functional programming with APL's arrays

sounds good

~~lets make it~~

lets hire Microsoft to make it :P

5:34 AM

this pfp is less eyeburning but i'm starting to feel like it's mocking me

I did it! I beat Minecraft!

nice

@DLosc It's fine

i'm pretty sure i still haven't lmao

@UnrelatedString Verbosity v3?

5:43 AM

like not even in multiplayer

i havent

@emanresuA nice, is it bedrock?

Yeah.

It's harder 'cos you can't shoot the caged crystals through the base of the bars

and the dragon perches for a millisecond

so no one cycle

5:45 AM

damn

it comes, stays there for a second and leaves

although there is a 3 bed harder one cycle i saw on eazyspeezy

@PyGamer0 Nah, it perched for aagggeeesss when I was by the perch. Probably could've, but I feel onecycling's risky because it creates fire

Which can destroy stuff you lose

6:36 AM

Yay, I've got Inquisitive

6:46 AM

Exquisite :P

7:09 AM

🥁

@UnrelatedString Your new PFP is scary

understandable

CMC: Given a triangular number, output the next.

@emanresuA vyxal, ɾ¦~ḟ›i

I have 5 based off that, but there's probably a cleverer way

7:23 AM

Jelly, 5 bytes

Um what

[1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 231]

it's sloppily verifying

@UnrelatedString i dont have brain cells to make flax answer based on that

It just doesn't work

RÄ first n triangular numbers, Ç€ run the previous line on each of them, =ḊƊ check each for equality with them shifted 1 to the left (and then there's one result that isn't matched so it just hangs there lol)

7:28 AM

oic never mind

yeah

@emanresuA 4 bytes, R flag: Ṡḟ⇧∑

what the actual solution does is just take a funky little shortcut through inverting the formula for triangular numbers

double, square root, ceiling, sum range

@lyxal The R flag applies twice?

Yep

First for vectorised sums and second to sum a number as a range rather than digits

7:32 AM

nice

As in, it applies twice within vectorised sums

No

Which is slightly cursed but kinda cool

It only applies once

Wait actually it does apply twice

Yay, I got my bronze tag badge! Finally

7:32 AM

Holy frick

@ophact Nice :)

@ophact gg gamer

nice

@lyxal We could add that sorta thing to the tips page

@UnrelatedString Oh no, not again

7:34 AM

what

This is kinda cursed but might be pretty useful to someone

@UnrelatedString We had a chain of 9 "nice" messages yesterday

oh no

@emanresuA ooh

oh yeah wait i remember that

that was glorious

It was

nice

23 hours ago, 50 minutes total – 9 messages, 9 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 22 hours ago by emanresu A

Do you ever just balance a soup ladel on your head?

7:44 AM

can't say i have

Because I do a few minutes ago

8:03 AM

WTF

8:24 AM

Laughed out loud at the second part

8:43 AM

@ophact well done

@UnrelatedString what is Ɗ?

oh nvm

Ð√⌈EΣ      ⍝ Alright @emanresuA this
EK¹¨=Tᵐ    ⍝ probably solves your cmc

probably

Is this flax?

yes

time to test it

em test case @emanresuA

9:00 AM

Any triangular number will do - try 21

ok i get a Recusion error

lmao

oof i did a stupid thing

9:39 AM

Integer overflow be like

10:11 AM

@lyxal or it might just be physics.stackexchange.com/a/275128

Oh. I thought it was

@Neil it's decidedly not that

What I was talking about is how everything is just colour all of a sudden

♫ When the spacing is tight / And the difference is slight / That's a moiré ♫

I thought it was that

Yeah that

But on a larger scale

And happening to everything reflective

l4m2

leetcode.com/problems/valid-parentheses/discuss/1842163 Is there 4th block for 4th kind of parentheses?

Oh just trivial [[[function(){...}]]];

11:21 AM

CMQ: Is it easy to develop games in JavaScript?

i guess you can use p5js

which in my experience is easy

oh right p5js

I forgot about that!

You saved my life

11:55 AM

can someone else verify that (n - 1 - ((2^b-1) mod n)) is the same as -2^b mod n (or in Python: (n - 1 - (2 ** b - 1) % n) == - 2 ** b % n)?

1:21 PM

Wordle 267 3/6

⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟨⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

big yikes

o.0

@Neil True for all positive b and n, but not for negative values

yeah I only need it for 32<=b<64 and 1<=n<2**32

@pxeger thanks for double-checking for me

1:37 PM

@pxeger how did you prove that?

...checked all numbers up to 1000

oh...

but there's pretty clearly no reason it should be true for small numbers but not for big numbers

i thought you used mathematical induction \o/

same

Inductions are great

1:42 PM

@Neil Oh it's the division challenge right?

Wordle 266 5/6

🟩⬛🟨⬛⬛
🟩⬛🟨⬛⬛
🟩🟩⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩⬛🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Tmw you guess random obscure words before the common obvious ones

sorry, accidentally pressed enter

Oops

You saw nothing

Looks like the site is down due to maintenance.

Oh no wait, we are now back on.

2:55 PM

@ophact yup

Interesting solution, by the way...

> If f=1, subtract 2³²-1 from m and 1 from s. Output the final values of m, s and f.

I never thought of that

I just redid the whole minimum thing

which probably used up too many bytes