The Nineteenth Byte

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

20:03

Wait...OISB working?

Time to add logging

Unrelated String

nice

emanresu A

Plumber actually worked the first time I tried

I'm learning

(adding to DSO)

mathcat

@taRadvylfsriksushilani At this point, I'm feeling SE is being cyber-attacked by people ... through SE's own network.

anywhat o/

Ginger Industries

@mathcat \o

DLosc

20:24

@cairdcoinheringaahing I believe it's my fourth-most-used language (behind Pip, QBasic, and Python).

caird coinheringaahing

@mathcat There was a time when this actually was happening - it got so bad that I believe some staff members received death threats

user

o.O why would anyone do that? (and did they figure out who was behind it?)

caird coinheringaahing

@user I have no idea, and I have no idea

I believe this was round the time that staff withdraw a lot from meta, and Monica got fired, so Autumn 2019

See meta.stackoverflow.com/a/387633/7742131 for example

emanresu A

20:43

Do Stuff Online is actually usable now! Add feature requests and/or bugs to the github repo.

8

Also @taRadvylfsriksushilani I managed to do something in ultrarisky

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Nice!

I wrote an addition program in In Floop that can handle unused inputs

r+s[r-]r[-s+n?o?]r+n[r-n-o+]r[o;]

Time to try multiplication

emanresu A

I was trying to do that

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

This is gonna be harder than I thought

emanresu A

Also dso.surge.sh/#in-floop

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I've managed to get rid of s without any additional byte count cost by using the array

I think n, o, and s should be all that's required for multiplication

emanresu A

20:57

It's pretty much repeated addition

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

yeah

I'll actually need to use s to keep track of the current state I think

emanresu A

You can always just use s as the tape pointer if you need more

The problem is there's no easy way to clone variables

pxeger

LYaL soon, what is it?

emanresu A

So our current methods of addition don't work very easily

pxeger

looks like it's Scala

AviFS

21:01

Hey guys!!

emanresu A

@user Lyal is scala

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@AviFS Hi!

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Hey :D

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Oh, quick question about OISB: If the user submits invalid inputjson, should it be ignored, or should the connection be closed?

Ginger Industries

@AviFS o/

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

21:02

(I'd ask this in the discord but it's blocked in school lol)

AviFS

Looks like Haskell and Scala are tied for LYAL

Who's gonna break the tie!

pxeger

Scala was posted first

so it's Scala

Ginger Industries

someday, I will get APOL to be in LYAL

Aaroneous Miller

aw, I was gonna vote for Scala, but it turns out I already did

pxeger

unless the votes change I guess, but we haven't really decided when they should be considered frozen

AviFS

21:05

@taRadvylfsriksushilani @cairdcoinheringaahing Hey Red! Hey Caird! Hi hi!

Ginger Industries

all the people

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani If someone tries to ACE you ban their IP adress

AviFS

@GingerIndustries I see you're account's just 2 months old, which would mean we haven't met yet. Unless you're someone in disguise... Hi, hello, welcome!

caird coinheringaahing

The nominations for LYAL aren't fully decided by votes and times - the votes are indicators of langs people would like to be LYAL, and we decide around the time what lang it should be

DLosc

@AviFS o/

AviFS

21:07

Hey DLosc!!

Ginger Industries

@AviFS that is correct. I am a relative newcomer to TNB

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@emanresuA Well, invalid input is overwhelmingly more likely to be me making a mistake while debugging, or someone making a mistake with the API

emanresu A

True

Wezl - y izl

Hi avifs. are you a file system :P

AviFS

@GingerIndustries Well hello there, relative newcomer.

Ginger Industries

21:07

@Wezl-yizl good question.

pxeger

@taRadvylfsriksushilani what does the name OISB stand for?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Online Interpreter Shared Back-end

Wezl - y izl

in The APL Orchard, Jul 30 '20 at 15:30, by Wezl

@AviFS does "programming linguaphile" == (programming) linguaphile or (programming language)phile ?

Ginger Industries

@pxeger Over-engIneered Seagull Bagels

AviFS

@Wezl-yizl Do file systems say hi to everyone?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

21:08

Ooh, I discovered I can nest my if/else construct in In Floop without requiring more than one variable!

emanresu A

Oxygen-Included Seedy Bread

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Hm, cool

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I think I've got multiplication almost working if nothing goes horribly wrong

AviFS

@Wezl-yizl That's some neat ambiguity. I meant the second one. But the first isn't terrible, either!

Wezl - y izl

@AviFS maybe file systems that are avid about greeting people :P

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani That's r+<condition>[r-<if>]r[r-<else>] right?

AviFS

21:10

Reminds me of a (Phillip Wadler = Haskell guy) talk name.

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@emanresuA Roughly, yeah

You can save a byte: r[r- -> r[-

AviFS

(Programming Languages) in Agda = Programming (Languages in Agda)

emanresu A

Yeah

AviFS

That was actually the name of the whole talk, haha

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Since in both blocks you know what r is and what it should return, you can do whatever you want with it as long as you set it back to the right thing at the end

AviFS

21:11

@Wezl-yizl I'm biased, but I approve this message.

caird coinheringaahing

Oh no, we're going to have 4 pinned messages for LYAL

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing good thing we've got all these spare thumbtacks

caird coinheringaahing

I think it's ok to unpin the sock one later, seems like it's gotten through to people

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I don't think we need the Proof Assistants one anymore

emanresu A

Yeah

DLosc

21:13

@Wezl-yizl I, for one, am both ^_^

Ginger Industries

I'm a phileaphile: someone who enjoys learning about things to learn about

DLosc

I think the "phil-" root has to do with enjoyment, not with learning

caird coinheringaahing

Hmm, I'm still getting used to "Score" instead of "Votes" in the sorting thing - it still feels slightly too new :P

Ginger Industries

@DLosc ¯\_(ಠ_ಠ)_/¯

caird coinheringaahing

@GingerIndustries This would be someone who enjoys enjoyment

emanresu A

21:16

@DLosc phil means love pretty much

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS Looks like Scala's now two ahead, and Haskell's dropped behind Desmos

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing well, I am also a tautologist

caird coinheringaahing

@GingerIndustries Are you a tautological tautologist?

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing I am someone who is a person

Unrelated String

really now

caird coinheringaahing

21:19

@GingerIndustries Is TNB actually just a super elaborate Turing Test?

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing You know too much.

caird coinheringaahing

half of all users here are bots, but no one knows who is what

Ginger Industries

I am a normal pe7rson typing normally with my normal person hands

caird coinheringaahing

i'm sorry, how did you manage to get a 7 in that?

Ginger Industries

@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't know what you mean. I have the normal and requisite amount of legs.

DLosc

21:21

@cairdcoinheringaahing I don't like sevens. They're coarse, and rough, and irritating, and they get everywhere.

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Wait my multiplication program is definitely not multiplying things

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc Then you are truly lost!

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

It adds the nth triangular number to the second input

Ginger Industries

@taRadvylfsriksushilani ಠ_ಠ

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay, this is hard

caird coinheringaahing

21:22

@taRadvylfsriksushilani CMC:

Ginger Industries

@taRadvylfsriksushilani how to make a multiplication program: make a multiplication program

caird coinheringaahing

I think I have 2 different 3 byters in Jelly for that :P

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@cairdcoinheringaahing Well, untested In Floop: r+s[r-]r[-n?o?s+]r+s-[@[-r-n+]r[s-n[r-]r[-o;]]]r[n[r-o+s@+]r[s+]r-]s+

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Nope, just input#2 + 1

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Aw :(

caird coinheringaahing

21:26

@cairdcoinheringaahing Try it online!

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Don't make me kick you...

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc You underestimate my RO power!

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Don't try it!

caird coinheringaahing

@DLosc *tries it*

Ginger Industries

You were supposed to bring balance to the forums, not destroy them!

caird coinheringaahing

21:28

Fun fact, I'm actually listening to star wars music atm :P

@GingerIndustries *incoherent screaming*

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay, time to try my multiplication program

And I found a bug in the interpreter lol

emanresu A

Fingers crossed

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Well, a fixed one

I have an old copy

emanresu A

The DSO version is whatever's on github

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Caird Vader... can you hear me?

Ginger Industries

21:34

@taRadvylfsriksushilani ^ should do this after SE Nitro

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay, let's try this again. Had a bug that made the condition negative for something.

Okay, forgot to decrement a counter. Let's try again again.

Looking good so far, n got decremented to 0 successfully

Okay, and now o's been decremented and n's been incremented back to the original. Looking good so far still!

Wait, nope

Config went negative again

user

@emanresuA \o/

Are we doing Scala or Haskell then?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay, looking good so far but it just keeps adding instead of stopping lol

emanresu A

I was trying yesterday night, then discovered two bugs

(And later patched those)

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay...found the bug, I think it should work now

Wish me luck again

emanresu A

21:45

Break a leg!

user

Even better, get hit by a bus!

Ginger Industries

Even Even better better, get crushed by a 200ft lead sphere!

user

Um

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Okay, it returned 0n

Ah, found the issue

I was returning the wrong variable

user

Okay I'm going to pretend everyone wants Scala, so here we go

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

21:46

But it works

emanresu A

Yay!

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yes!!!

user

CMS(cala): Find the first vowel in a string (e.g. "yabcd" -> 'a' or "a")

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Hello world in In Floop when?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

70 bytes

r+s[r-]r[-n?o?s+]r+s-[@[-r-n+]r[s-o-[r-]r[-@;]]]r[n[-r@+r-@+]r[-s+]]s+

Uses all four registers and two indices in the array

caird coinheringaahing

@user just a reminder that LYAL doesn't technically start for another 2 hours :P

user

21:49

Oh lol

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Cool!

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@user It can only output numbers, and only one of them at that

caird coinheringaahing

Feel free to act like it has tho, I just won't be doing the annoncement/pin until midnight :P

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

A program that takes a string as input, one char at a time, and determines if it's "Hello, World!" would be possible though

user

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Hello world encoded as ginormous number when? :P

caird coinheringaahing

21:51

Output 7210110810811144328711111410810033 :P

Bgil Midol

@cairdcoinheringaahing 7210110810811144328711111410810033, vyxal

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

CMC: Shortest brainfuck program that prints a number not smaller than its length

Aaroneous Miller

@taRadvylfsriksushilani What if you made a way to output the entire contents of the array?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

(With an infinite cell size variant of bf so -. isn't a trivial solution)

@AaroneousMiller Hmm, maybe, but it'd kind of go against the language philosophy.

Aaroneous Miller

true

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

21:53

I could add something like ? but for output, I guess

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani You gonna answer with that?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yep, was trying to find the question

Aaroneous Miller

Why nors for the variables? Is it because they look nice, or do they mean something?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Both, sort of

They look nice, but it's also four letters with useful mnemonic meanings

n for number, o for output, r for register, and s for state

0

A: Multiply two numbers

In Floop, 70 bytes, pos. only r+s[r-]r[-n?o?s+]r+s-[@[-r-n+]r[s-o-[r-]r[-@;]]]r[n[-r@+r-@+]r[-s+]]s+ I wrote this in three parts: Outer part: r+s[r-]r[-n?o?s+]r+s-[A]r[B]s+ (based off of my ass-two-numbers program) A: @[-r-n+]r[s-o-[r-]r[-@;]] (copies @1 to n, 1 at a time) B: n[-r@+r-@+]r[-s+] ...

Aaroneous Miller

neat

emanresu A

21:59

> ass-two-numbers

Ginger Industries

@emanresuA ಠ_ಠ

emanresu A

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Are you going to add a TIO link?

user

@emanresuA Have you never heard of a half-asser before? :P

user

22:12

thejonymyster

22:23

@taRadvylfsriksushilani im not sure if this can be further golfed, but here is my attempt: Try It Online!

i added the footer to it because the initial "blank" output bothered me

DLosc

@cairdcoinheringaahing Pip, 8 bytes (no triangular-number builtin): a*Ua/2+b

Wezl - y izl

22:42

@cairdcoinheringaahing Ruby, 18 bytes: ->{(0.._1).sum+_2}

DLosc

@Wezl-yizl 16 bytes: ->{_1*-~_1/2+_2}

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Instead of "Try It Online" links, DSO should use "Dry St. Online" links

emanresu A

22:57

I've realised it's not a particularly good name lol

Also turns out I forgot to test my BF interpreter

That's fixed now

I think I get the record for smallest online interpreter

It's 37kB

Adám

I still think RIO is the obvious choice: Run It Online

emanresu A

rio.surge.sh is taken though

So is rio.run

Adám

Why surge.sh?

@emanresuA Ah yes.

emanresu A

@Adám Cause I'm poor and can't be bothered getting an actual domain

Adám

yco.run: Your Code Online - Run

aco.run: Any Code Online - Run

Wezl - y izl

23:05

@Wezl-yizl scala's similar: (a,b)=>(0to a).sum+b (20 bytes). I'm not sure whether type signatures need to be included

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

ryc.run: Run Your Code

rtc.run: Run This/That Code

Wezl - y izl

also I'm not sure how to translate the second solution

Adám

But then you don't want .run

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

RTO has .run

I don't see why "Run" can't be in both the title and the TLD

Adám

RTO (Run This Online) is way better, imo, than ATO (Attempt This Online)

emanresu A

23:07

^

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

The funny thing is that pxeger came up with both

I like ATO though, it's a good name

Adám

But when I post something serious (on SO etc.) I wouldn't want to include an "Attempt this online!" link. That sounds silly, as if it might not work.

eto.run exists, and is better: Eval/Exec This Online.

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

That's true, but I thought people still just wrote "Try It Online" when linking to ATO/RTO/DSO/...

emanresu A

My first online interpreter

Adám

What is DSO?

emanresu A

23:10

Do Stuff Online

My one

(see starboard)

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

There's also Bubbler's and I think another one but I keep forgetting their acronyms

Adám

dio.run is also available. (Do It Online)

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Adám

@emanresuA Looks nice, but that's only for things written in JS, right?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Glad to see I'm getting the most out of Duolingo :p

emanresu A

23:12

@Adám Yep

Adám

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Learning Swedish?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Just a little bit for fun yeah

Adám

Let me know if you need anything.

emanresu A

I don't have a server, don't want to buy one, and don't trust myself to make an actually secure sandbox

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

It is a good idea to have a place where JS-based interpreters can be run, since it'd have more performance and flexibility than the more traditional model.

Adám

23:15

Agreed.

@emanresuA Should be able to add ngn-apl and BQN too, then.

emanresu A

And oK

Adám

And I think J can now be compiled using emscripten.

Aaroneous Miller

@Adám eso.run (Eval Stuff Online) would be perfect, but unfortunately it’s already registered

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

It's theoretically possible to write programs in In Floop that add or multiply signed integers, since it can handle them perfectly fine, but I don't want to even attempt that lol

How about Do Stuff Online?

Wait

emanresu A

Yeah

@taRadvylfsriksushilani That exists

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

23:19

I know I just realized that's literally what it's called already

user

How would Yoda say "Run It Online"? "Online, Run It"?

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

I'm very smart lol

Adám

@AaroneousMiller eio.run is available (Evaluate/Execute It Online)

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Old MacDonald had an online interpreter, E-I-E-I-O

2

user

I can't think of any coherent phrase that ends in "Run" and means something similar to "Try it Online"

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

23:20

WCSR: Where Code Should Run

Adám

@user compile and run

Aaroneous Miller

@Adám I thought eso.run would be perfect because it would probably be mainly used for esolangs

Adám

Oh.

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Hmm, maybe focus on the fact that it's JS/Browser-based?

user

@Adám That's not bad, although it doesn't suit interpreted languages

Wezl - y izl

23:21

@Wezl-yizl make that (?,b)=>(0to?).sum+b

user

@taRadvylfsriksushilani Doesn't "eso" capture the fact that it's in JS? :P

@Wezl-yizl Wait, 0to works?

Wezl - y izl

yes

user

How have I never found out about this before?

omg my life has been a lie

Wezl - y izl

scala has been the lie

and also a whole lot of other languages

user

@Wezl-yizl (0.to(_).sum+_ should also work (DLosc came up with it earlier))

I don't know how to feel about this

On the one hand, it's good for golfing. On the other hand, there's no need to have it in practical code

DLosc

23:32

@user Not on Scastie, apparently.

Aaroneous Miller

Using 1 and -1 instead of 1 and 0 in the data string for a BCT program wouldn’t affect the TC-ness, correct? I feel like it is extremely obvious that it wouldn’t, but I just want to confirm

DLosc

@AaroneousMiller As long as -1 in your variant behaves exactly like 0 in standard BCT, then no. It's the same thing just written differently.

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

Yeah, you can trivially convert between the two

Aaroneous Miller

Cool, just making sure

I’m gonna try something really painful and i dont know if I’ll be successful

emanresu A

DSO is smaller than ngn/apl lol

lyxal

23:39

congratulations on launching DSO though ;)

emanresu A

It's existed for a whiile, it was just mostly unusable

user

Does DSO lazily load interpreters as needed or are all of them loaded at once? (apologies if that's not the right terminology or whatever, idk JS)

emanresu A

lazy load

user

Nice

emanresu A

(Aka fetch and eval because I can't find a good github CDN that loads the latest commit and isn't a sussy baka)

> He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither. - Benjaman Franklin

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

23:47

fetch+eval is essentially the same as loading it with <script> and a CDN

lyxal

> I can't find a good github CDN that loads the latest commit and isn't a sussy baka

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

eval only introduces security issues if you use it somewhere where you're not already running arbitrary code

emanresu A

@lyxal gitcdn.link is such a sussy baka if that's what you were going to say

lyxal

@emanresuA no, I was making it clear why you're using fetch + eval

I know it is because we use github pages as a CDN

Adám

@emanresuA The About link does not inspire confidence in their ability to fetch files from GitHub.

Jo King

23:50

@taRadvylfsriksushilani 13 bytes

Adám

Heh, none of the nav links work.

lyxal

that's right! wonderful, isn't it?

emanresu A

Nov 30 '21 at 2:56, by emanresu A

lyxal

Nov 30 '21 at 3:05, by lyxal

But it works and it's free

twas a lie. For some reason, it didn't work

It wasn't actually delivering files in some browsers from the looks of things

plus, it cached stuff, which wasn't helpful

ta Radvylf srik su shilani

There are a shocking number of Caramelldansen medieval/bardcore remixes

Unrelated String

23:58

it is a popular meme song but there's also not that much bardcore so wow yeah that is weird

emanresu A

I have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not sure I want to know

Unrelated String

you've never heard of either caramelldansen or bardcore?

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