English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

4:10 AM

Funny.

> Take the widespread use of precious metals as money. A Mengerian would say that this happens because metals are durable, divisible and portable: that makes them an ideal medium of exchange. But it is incredibly hard to value raw metals, Mr Goodhart argued, so the cost of using them in trade is high.

This sounds a bit odd.

Metals are not that hard to value.

And the reasons why they were used are probably extreme durability and geographically uniform scarcity.

A piece of gold is highly valued all over the world.

And it cannot spoil, like pepper or salt.

It is also probably worth more per kg than salt.

tchrist

hi

Cerberus

In ancient times.

tchrist

I didn't understand their point about metals being hard to value.

But salt, well. Soldiers worth their salt were paid a salary.

Cerberus

@tchrist Well, there are many kinds of forgery.

@tchrist Salt is not bad, but gold is better.

tchrist

Hard to forge salt. :)

And easier to extract from seawater.

Cerberus

4:17 AM

You can forge salt.

tchrist

And, well, it's not like the soldiers were actually paid/worth that much.

Cerberus

Just as hard drugs are "forged".

tchrist

Prescription drugs are also forged, if you would.

Cerberus

Yes.

tchrist

Hell, people fake pot. Nuts.

Cerberus

4:18 AM

But hard drugs are probably more commonly used and diluted/faked.

tchrist

I don't know whether the Romans had a ready supply of potassium chloride.

Cerberus

Do you say "cut"?

tchrist

Yes, cut.

Cerberus

OK.

Déjà vu. Oh, well.

tchrist

Coke is cut. Acid is not cut. Ecstasy who knows what is really in, so who can say. Ketamine may be cut, but it depends. I believe heroin is cut.

That doesn't mean the acid is real. It can be fake. It just isn't cut = diluted = adulterated.

Because it makes no sense given the microgram dosages.

Cut means has fake stuff mixed into the real stuff.

There are constantly new drugs out there. I swear I read about some new one in the papers all the time, and it's like I'm the last to know.

This happened a few weeks ago, and I can't even remember what it was now. Didn't stick. Not particularly indulgent/interested.

Cerberus

4:22 AM

Yes, I know what it means. I was just tired and wondering whether I was using the Dutch sense where it didn't belong. Versnijden = cut drugs.

> Once money exists, income and expenditure can be measured. That means they can be taxed.

I'm not sure this argument works.

Because income taxes are relatively new.

The commonest taxation was probably tolls.

tchrist

I think import duties at ports existed, didn't it?

Cerberus

A certain fraction of your load would be taken.

@tchrist That is a kind of toll, yes.

tchrist

But in kind, not in specie.

If they took a part of your goods . . .

Cerberus

How can they take part of your goods in specie?

tchrist

Well, once you have money, they can levy a duty valuated in that currency.

Cerberus

4:25 AM

Yes, but that is not taking goods.

tchrist

I don't understand how you can still put two words together, it is so late.

Cerberus

Money could make it easier to rake in tolls, but it was still possible without money.

tchrist

I have a wisp of a memory of something regarding taxes/duties/tithes/etc from ancient Greece, forget which city. but I cannot find it now.

It was regarding sea cargo.

Cerberus

They had all kinds of taxes.

tchrist

By find it, I mean in my mind.

I am too tired to search the net.

Cerberus

4:27 AM

And tolls could be levied on all kinds of goods, in all kinds of places.

tchrist

There was some curious system about contesting the tax assessment.

Must sleep.

Please good night.

Cerberus

What I'm saying is that I find the link between money and income taxes tenuous.

Please good night!

tchrist

Yes on income tax, because it is new. But taxes have been with us always, since money if not before.

good night.

Cerberus

The article suggests that governments "invented" money in order to levy income taxes.

@tchrist But that is not right.

Because income taxes only emerged much, much later than money.

By millennia, possibly.

Taxes were traditionally on goods and on land.

I will concede that some kinds of taxes that depended on money emerged much earlier, though, in cities.

But an important problem is that it is comparatively easy to hide money and income, but not land or goods.

Money does make taxation significantly easier all over.

Cheaper to organise and carry out.

So there may have been an incentive for governments at some times.

Mahnax

4:45 AM

Good evening, folks.

RegDwight АΑA

8:38 AM

Good morning, @Mahnax.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…