The Nineteenth Byte

The first time, it got accepted with a note about how it isn't their answer. I'm very tempted to CW-flag, if it weren't for the fact that their original answer is still there

hyper-neutrino

unfortunately unprotecting that question would probably invite all the wrong answers that didn't even bother to read the spec to return

caird coinheringaahing

8:14 PM

@hyper-neutrino Which is why I re-protected it after I unprotected all the questions that were inappropriately protected

That's one of two questions on the site that should be protected :P

If the editor does have an actual answer tho, I'll unprotect it so they can post it, then reprotect it

hyper-neutrino

wait there's a 1:15 working:deleted question? damn

caird coinheringaahing

@cairdcoinheringaahing ...I just tested it and their answer doesn't even work for level 3 ಠ_ಠ

It literally just goes forward 3 times, then rotates in place 13 times

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Probably got dizzy :P

hyper-neutrino

8:39 PM

i made a test program for the google doodle thingy: (link is too long so you may have to expand the message)
https://tio.run/##rVVLT9tAED57f8Vkc1m3ThQnt4gc0hIQUiRQgri4VrWJN62LWVtrG2gRvz2dsQOxTQwq9DLancc33zzWTn5nP2M92m7ns6vZfAkT8Jj1wCyLp5k0GR@DGDgwsB1SrWJpAlR5Hu9zB3inFL7PrEfn38Mc8HiXzt02xQeAO03gzpuMhw4MXwBXw54Quy9THDIV4tWKX6n9f5Bt60drZ/rvinon2e4BgGr7@nXR@YipJReRZT5jp7j3Lpuj/BKhGLIFHQ2KEWOB2sC5@CTtMbOMynKjQUiv5yJwFKYZnsd4sW3GVlG8vk4xSt3KSIQ6yTNBekIwuRaBzKQDoU4zk6@zMNYpYYYbCFNSSr1WomotE5CPtYkNpPkKrRhfgyCrtUcvnWxmqYiAK44wwSLJW6s7TJYpJJrlSaTEPXyG4B4ox71DJ0zxJ0wKRG83Ray2vAah4VStRcQHcDSBJzzP9eEIIq…

and can confirm that the suggested edit quite clearly does not work :p

user

> "FPAAISLS"[passed::2]

You've taken golfing too far :P

rak1507

lmao

caird coinheringaahing

→ 68 messages moved to Ｃｕｒｓｅｄ language features

user

Off-by-one error :P

caird coinheringaahing

I missed one as well :P

hyper-neutrino

8:40 PM

the funny thing is that most of it isn't even golfed and then at the end i just put that in :P

caird coinheringaahing

→ 1 message moved to Ｃｕｒｓｅｄ language features, because I'll be damned if I ever move 69 messages at once :P

hyper-neutrino

quickly, move them back into TNB so you can move them back out to get the right number :P

user

*Makes Lyxal RO* :P

Redwolf Programs

@user Remember what happened with the RO powers testing room?

We do not need a repeat of that :p

caird coinheringaahing

There is precedence for not giving lyxal RO powers :P

user

8:46 PM

I mean, it hasn't happened with Vyxal yet :P

caird coinheringaahing

> yet

being the operative word :P

user

@user Too late, I've done it now :P

hyper-neutrino

oh yeah what happened to the RO powers testing room

was that the one I nuked or was that a different room

user

Probably got nuked or frozen

Redwolf Programs

It was that one

Lyxal renamed it "frick" and un-RO'd us all

caird coinheringaahing

8:51 PM

Clearly we should have a "frick RO election" on meta to settle it :P

user

What would that involve?

caird coinheringaahing

Same thing as the TNB RO election, but only lyxal is allowed to stand :P

Vote by mod flags :P

user

lol, I thought RO candidates would rickroll each other to win :P

Sandbox Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Unfold a list code-golf functional-programming Haskell's and Scala's standard libraries have an unfold function that builds a list from an initial state s and a function f. This is done with the following steps (explained in an imperative way to be simpler): Apply f to s. If the result is empt...

caird coinheringaahing

@SandboxPosts I have no idea what this is describing, it really needs a readable example

Anush

9:03 PM

Is shifting by 16 bits faster than shifting by 10 bits?

I don't really know what the CPU does

Redwolf Programs

If it is, it's by a negligible amount

rak1507

should be one instruction either way

user

@cairdcoinheringaahing Would a Python example help?

caird coinheringaahing

@user You should provide a non-language specific, worked through example

user

Hmm, okay

caird coinheringaahing

9:06 PM

e.g. f is a function that takes (something??) as input and produces (something??) as output, s = 5, the result is 10 because of xyz

user

Working on pseudocode-y explanation :)

Unrelated String

9:25 PM

...also not entirely sure what you mean by "it's impossible to write test cases for black-box functions" considering we've done that fine in the past

user

Just realized my Scala example is wrong lol

Redwolf Programs

I wish break and continue worked like return, so you could do something like continue x = 0;. It'd mean getting rid of the label functionality for those (which isn't a big loss IMO), but it makes it easier to write one-liners in loops and increases readability imo

Plus it's golfy :p

caird coinheringaahing

9:42 PM

That's reminded me that I wish yield return existed in Python, where it acts like a return statement when encountered (so code after isn't run), but it still acts as a generator

Unrelated String

you can do yield _; return but that does not feel as good as a yield return statement would

because 95% of the time you're using return it's returning a value but as far as i can tell a return in a generator doesn't pass the value you give it along

...i need to look this up

user

yield return sounds like it would be incredibly cursed (AaronMiller, you seeing this?)

Redwolf Programs

Are yields in Python like in JS, where it's an expression so you can do return yield?

caird coinheringaahing

Try it online!

@RedwolfPrograms No, you can't

Unrelated String

okay so apparently if you give return in a generator a return value, it's... passed to the constructor of the StopIteration exception

:/

user

9:49 PM

I love how yields are different in every language: you've got Python's (and JS's?) generator-making yields, Scala's for-comprehension yield, Java's new return-from-switch-and-stuff yield, Ruby's yield that I don't even understand, and probably more

caird coinheringaahing

This is a section of code from the Mixology interpreter

Redwolf Programs

The word yield is really ugly synesthesia-wise, it's like this weird green-white-yellow thing

Unrelated String

lol

caird coinheringaahing

Replacing final and the final == old check with a yield return would be nice

Unrelated String

@RedwolfPrograms ...oh no

so uh

in python, return yield x is a syntax error

but yields are expressions

caird coinheringaahing

9:51 PM

Are they?

Unrelated String

you have to do return (yield x)

WHY

Redwolf Programs

>:|

So close

Wait I wonder if it does that in JS

Nope, works fine

Unrelated String

oh yeah yields are expressions for passing stuff back into generators with send()

good old generator coroutines

caird coinheringaahing

Plus yield from being a thing :P

Unrelated String

:P

Redwolf Programs

9:53 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Is that like JS's yield *other_generator();?

caird coinheringaahing

504

Q: In practice, what are the main uses for the new "yield from" syntax in Python 3.3?

I'm having a hard time wrapping my brain around PEP 380. What are the situations where "yield from" is useful? What is the classic use case? Why is it compared to micro-threads? [ update ] Now I understand the cause of my difficulties. I've used generators, but never really used coroutines ...

Unrelated String

i'd guess so except doesn't js use ... for what python uses * for

so if js yield * is python yield from then why the hell does it have a *

Redwolf Programs

* is used to denote generator functions

caird coinheringaahing

The fact that w = (yield) is valid syntax is just weird tbh

Unrelated String

wait what

does that yield None?

i... guess that sort of makes sense

Redwolf Programs

9:55 PM

It works in JS too, where it actually sort of makes sense

Unrelated String

but if you're yielding to get a value rather than emit a value

calling it yield just feels wrong

Redwolf Programs

I combined them:

function *gen() {
    return yield;
}

Unrelated String

i guess you're still yielding to the caller

Redwolf Programs

@RedwolfPrograms This is very much not at all stupid

Unrelated String

...i guess this might be why generators have a throw method come to think of it

caird coinheringaahing

10:01 PM

I've been thinking about a Python version of this, but it seems far too strict on syntax to get much more than 3 in a row :?

Unrelated String

yeah i feel like thjere's really not very far you can go with consecutive distinct reserved keywords

caird coinheringaahing

10:13 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing Allowing only : and whitespace between them, and counting unique keywords (but allowing repeats), I get 25 :D

Doesn't use as async await class def del for from global nonlocal. Try it online!

user

26?

caird coinheringaahing

... Python can get cursed :P

I only use it because it's easier to make complicated programs than in Jelly

user

That's a rather low bar :P

caird coinheringaahing

If I could write an Add++ interpreter in Jelly, I would

Redwolf Programs

JS's void is probably one of the most useless keywords in any (practical) programming language

user

10:24 PM

What does it do?

Redwolf Programs

It takes an expression, runs it, and results in undefined

user

lol

caird coinheringaahing

Opens up the void

user

Even Nim's discard makes sense

Redwolf Programs

You could precisely recreate it with var void = () => {};

caird coinheringaahing

10:26 PM

@RedwolfPrograms Kind of like brainflak's <...>, right?

Redwolf Programs

Yep

caird coinheringaahing

Except that 0 is slightly more useful than undefined :P

user

5 hours ago, by user

lol, I guess I no longer believe in 0

Objection, 0 is imaginary, so undefined is more useful :P

caird coinheringaahing

@user 0 isn't imaginary, but 0i is :P

Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing From the README for flipbit: “Check the wiki for all commands”
ಠ_ಠ
There is no wiki.

caird coinheringaahing

10:39 PM

@AaronMiller I couldn't make it that easy to use Flipbit :P

Aaron Miller

Dang it. More source code diving, I guess. See you in a week! o/

caird coinheringaahing

[, <, > and ] are brainfuck's commands. ^ flips the cell (the tape is all bits), and ., , and ? are I/O

. takes all cells up to the take head, converts from binary and outputs as a char

? reads in a character and sets the next 8 bits of the tape to the binary of the input char

, reads in a single bit

(the input is slightly more complicated in reality, just don't mix , and ? :P)

Aaron Miller

So, with ?, inputting, e.g. “a” will set the next 8 bits to 01100001?

caird coinheringaahing

Should do

Kind of

Aaron Miller

So it ignores leading 0s?

caird coinheringaahing

10:48 PM

Either that or it's an off-by-one issue with indexing

Nope, guess it ignores leading 0s

Oh right, cause it converts to binary, not 8-bit binary

Feb 18 at 22:44, by caird coinheringaahing

Me? Sensible language design?

Aaron Miller

Truth-machine: Try it online!

caird coinheringaahing

Nice :D

Aaron Miller

I like this language

caird coinheringaahing

I've written exactly one program in Flipbit IIRC, and that was the Hello, World! :P

@cairdcoinheringaahing Nope, 3 programs :P

Aaron Miller

Um, that last one isn’t a flipbit program…

caird coinheringaahing

11:00 PM

No, 2 of them aren't

That's why there's 5 search results, and I said 3 programs :P

Aaron Miller

o.O I could have sworn there was only three results a second ago. Or I just didn’t scroll down all the way. That’s possible.

lyxal

11:25 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing ...

That's a mental picture I really didn't need

caird coinheringaahing

You in a puppy costume?

lyxal

Yes, because I'm not a furry

Commit frick

Unrelated String

@cairdcoinheringaahing ...how does with True: not error

caird coinheringaahing

I suppose True (or rather, bool) has a __enter__ dunder method :/

Unrelated String

i tried with True: in a repl and it errored, claiming no __enter__

>>> with True: print(':|')
...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
AttributeError: __enter__

...also kinda weird the error text isn't AttributeError: 'bool' object has no attribute '__enter__'

it's just AttributeError: __enter__

caird coinheringaahing

11:41 PM

Try it online!

Unrelated String

because of course the former is what you get if you just try True.__enter__

so somehow the rest of the body of the function in your

oh

tio.run/##RZExdoQwDERrOIW6Zet0HCBlqlxAa@SgFyHzjHgbTk9km2w6e2zP/…

caird coinheringaahing

wait, is it because it returns?

no, it's a generator

Unrelated String

...ofc

user

@lyxal And there's more treble than bass lol

Unrelated String

welp

user

11:43 PM

@cairdcoinheringaahing The first revision of this o.O

Unrelated String

except... it still returns a generator object

successfully

so it still works lmoa

caird coinheringaahing

@user Yeah, I hit enter too early :P

user

Laughing My...Octopus Antenna?

caird coinheringaahing

Laughing My Off Ass :P

Unrelated String

it's fine to do anything that isn't a straight up syntax error because it doesn't run until you try to iterate through the generator

caird coinheringaahing

11:44 PM

@UnrelatedString "works"

user

I kinda want to make a userscript+PythonAnywhere server that lets you reply to messages with emojis instead of using messages or stars and does other stuff

caird coinheringaahing

generators are very weird with "works"

Unrelated String

yep

caird coinheringaahing

@user ⭐

user

😄

lyxal

11:47 PM

🥺👉👈

caird coinheringaahing

🥺
👉👈

is for me?

lyxal

🧑‍💻 Me when hacking nasa

user

👁 NSA when watching you hack NASA just like they wanted you to

hyper-neutrino

reactions are great because you can't react to a reaction

user

👽 Me when watching all y'all

@hyper-neutrino Reactionception time

hyper-neutrino

11:49 PM

so you can thumbsup someone's message to acknowledge and reply to it and they can't respond back thus allowing two people to finish a conversation without one person really needing to send the "last message"

because they sent the last real message, but you performed the last action

user

Oh yeah, that's always annoying

caird coinheringaahing

👍

lyxal

@user 😳😳 I'm sorry nsa 😱😔😭😭😭 pls don't arrest me 🥺🥺🥺🥺

user

The only way to fix that would be to have too people to send a message at the same time like MAD

hyper-neutrino

idea: a chat client that constantly scrolls and when someone posts a message it just appears - if people send messages at the same time they just appear next to / on top of each other, and if no messages are sent the old ones just gradually scroll off the screen

user

11:51 PM

@lyxal 😈😈😈😈 Mwahaha I 👽 am evil 👹👹👹👹 You shall BURN 🔥🔥🔥🔥

@hyper-neutrino Sounds good

Also a way to trace the replies to a message

Imma start a github repo, anyone wanna join?

Unrelated String

so yeah i guess due to generator shenanigans if with True: works so does yield from True since it is syntactically legal

hyper-neutrino

i've wanted to totally remake a chat client for se chat for some time lol, either as a userscript that just totally overwrites the entire window or as a completely independent app / webapp

lyxal

@user oh no 😰😰😰 no pls spare me 😧😱🥺🥺🥺😞 burning isn't fun 🔥😩😕😒😡

caird coinheringaahing

@UnrelatedString Seriously? :/

user

@UnrelatedString How does from work there?

caird coinheringaahing

11:53 PM

It's a yield from statement

hyper-neutrino

yield from x is similar to for k in x: yield k right?

caird coinheringaahing