The Nineteenth Byte

hyper-neutrino

16:00

ಠ_ಠ

N3buchadnezzar

/  \

caird coinheringaahing

> This message has been edited 6 times

N3buchadnezzar

@cairdcoinheringaahing Are you not glad we have version control?

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah, I like having version control. I just prefer to code locally then just publish all my code at the end

Unrelated String

you know you can

use a local repo

caird coinheringaahing

16:05

That seems like overkill :P

Unrelated String

which is what you're doing anyways if you're pushing stuff to github

you can just choose not to push very frequently

Razetime

Yeah I like VCS
V
Codegolf
SRickroll

hyper-neutrino

using git just to have a linear revision history is honestly a) not that hard b) not really all that useful either

caird coinheringaahing

Surely the V is for Vyxal?

hyper-neutrino

IMO the main strength of git is branches

otherwise you may as well just copy-paste your file into "file.txt.backup" lol

caird coinheringaahing

16:07

Yea, if I'm the only one working on my code, I can remember what changes I've made

Razetime

@cairdcoinheringaahing no, V(vim)

caird coinheringaahing

Kind of. I may need to reread the code to remember them :P

Razetime

but not vlang

vlang is garbage

N3buchadnezzar

Did anyone now they remastered the video into 4k? I am not joking

caird coinheringaahing

No, you're N3buchadnezzar

Razetime

16:08

ah yeah there was a really smooth version going around

pxeger

@Razetime you saw the hackernews thread too?

Razetime

@pxeger nah i just root around the esolangs discord where they talk about the creator's questionable practices

and how the thing is just a string substitution into C

Aaron Miller

@cairdcoinheringaahing But git is really nice when, say, I don't know, working on some hypothetical golfing-related project whose name is related to that of someone who likes showing people some guy who sang some song that went viral.

Razetime

and so on

honestly the only times i go on ycombinator are when an apl thread pops up

caird coinheringaahing

@AaronMiller Yeah, I suppose so. Given that Jelly isn't exactly in active dev, I'd have more things to be interested in than the differences between my code and any potential update :P

Aaron Miller

16:12

Apparently the domain λ.com costs a crapton

N3buchadnezzar

I use git becaues it is so gosh darn fast pushing changes to GitHub. git add ... git commit -c "..." git push

Unrelated String

@N3buchadnezzar it's kind of uncanny when you see little bits of motion blur that wouldn't be there in something that was actually filmed at that resolution and framerate

Razetime

@AaronMiller https://λ.land is owned by a fellow codegolfer

pxeger

@xash

Aaron Miller

@N3buchadnezzar You can golf git add . git commit -c "..." down to git commit -ac "..."

hyper-neutrino

16:15

i usually have push "..." aliased to git add --all && git commit -m "..." && git push lol

N3buchadnezzar

@AaronMiller Git add . you are a brave man, I guess you have aliased rm into rm -rf too? :p

But yeah, git is totally different when you are alone or part of some group

Aaron Miller

yesterday, by lyxal

I like to live life on the edge

yesterday, by lyxal

the edge of propinquity

N3buchadnezzar

16:31

ಠ_ಠ

pxeger

lol sorry

I suddenly realised [[ ]] would be ambiguous if [] were used for lists, so I can't use it that way round and my answer has been decided already

and actually, tbh, I can't use (( )) or {{ }}, so maybe it would be better for consistency if I used [| |] {| |} (| |)

N3buchadnezzar

Yeah, I think so too

pxeger

with the idea being that then I can have special syntax for tuples and dicts and stuff

N3buchadnezzar

pxeger

ivim keybinds are muscle memory by this point:wq

N3buchadnezzar

16:41

@pxeger Ive got so much to learn youtube.com/watch?v=CN8p9iL7PPI

Aaron Miller

i@pxeger Imagine using :wq instead of ZQ smhZQ

pxeger

@AaronMiller aZQ doesn't save your changes, you need to use ZZZZ

Aaron Miller

lol that's the joke

hyper-neutrino

don't you need to press <esc> to enter the :wq

in which case your entire message would just be ":wq"

caird coinheringaahing

Chat.SE is the best text editor

pxeger

16:46

that wouldn't make a very good joke though

hyper-neutrino

also, i prefer :q! - the ! means it's very important that vim saves your data

N3buchadnezzar

@hyper-neutrino This assumes you are in insert mode, which you never should be xD

hyper-neutrino

@N3buchadnezzar well pxeger's message starts with i so... :p

also how tf do you type if not in insert mode

caird coinheringaahing

Append mode

hyper-neutrino

oh wait you don't type when programming, you just ctrl-c ctrl-v or whatever those are in vim

y and something

pxeger

16:47

@hyper-neutrino :nnoremap ii <esc>r

caird coinheringaahing

> Ɠ and ɠ now return [] when the input is empty, and #, (, ¡ and Ð¡ will use 0 if empty input is read

hyper-neutrino

bold of you to assume i know what on earth that means lmao

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino From my fork :P

N3buchadnezzar

@hyper-neutrino Coding is basically just copy paste, no need to enter insert mode

hyper-neutrino

@cairdcoinheringaahing wouldn't 1 be more useful for #?

Aaron Miller

16:48

@hyper-neutrino I only use Replace mode to type in vim

pxeger

@hyper-neutrino inioiwi iyioiui ijiuisiti ihiaiviei itioi ipirieisisi iiiii ibieifioirie ieivieiriyi icihiairiaicitieir

N3buchadnezzar

@pxeger I thought peopple prefered jj or jk or kj?

caird coinheringaahing

@hyper-neutrino Ooh, actually that could be OP and lead to some weird chains

hyper-neutrino

@pxeger lol wtf

pxeger

("now you just have to press i before every character")

((that took way too long to type out))

hyper-neutrino

16:49

also why are 5 of the last 6 messages not sent by me pinging me (ignoring messages ninja'ing me)

caird coinheringaahing

Plus it would remove the need for ( (which is just 1#)

Oh, what about ( being ) but that allows chaining?

hyper-neutrino

oh you have ( do 1#?

although, # takes last input right? or does last input have to be argument 5 or later

caird coinheringaahing

Yeah

@hyper-neutrino # takes the last input, which is the last CLA if there are CLAs, otherwise it reads a line from STDIN

hyper-neutrino

ah, so if your program isn't a nilad, it still needs to manually specify an argument for #?

caird coinheringaahing

So if # defaults to 1, then Ɠ...# as a nilad chain would work

pxeger

16:51

@cairdcoinheringaahing Contributor Licence Agreement? the FSF now officially disapproves of Jelly

caird coinheringaahing

And, it would allow you to do ...µ# with no inputs to find the first integer such that chain is true

Newly Featured Posts

61

Q: A "cheating" quine

Long-time lurker, first-time poster. So here goes. In the Wikipedia page for quine, it says that "a quine is considered to be 'cheating' if it looks at its own source code." Your task is to make one of these "cheating quines" that reads its own source code. This is code-golf, so the shortest co...

N3buchadnezzar

I was wondering about how ATO does the inputs and whether languages supports arguments and not. I think it would be cleaner if this was specified in the header instead of having a long line of /ATO/yargs % /ATO/arguments /usr/local/bin/jelly fun /ATO/code % < /ATO/input this

pxeger

@N3buchadnezzar whether it supports arguments and stuff is not specified at all; it needs to be in the header when I implement it. What you read above is just a more robust way of writing /usr/local/bin/jelly fun $@ /ATO/code < /ATO/input where $@ have been somehow magically read from /ATO/arguments

caird coinheringaahing

Good to see that Jelly on ATO is fun :P

N3buchadnezzar

16:56

@pxeger Cant it be specified in languages?

pxeger

yes it will be

N3buchadnezzar

Sorry my English is bad :p That is what I meant, good you are thinking the same

pxeger

wait, do you mean github.com/attempt-this-online/languages ?

N3buchadnezzar

Yes?

pxeger

oh

well sort of, I want to merge the ideas of runners and the stuff in that repo eventually

N3buchadnezzar

16:58

# options = false, # flag = fun ... Or something

pxeger

that's not flexible enough

consider a compiled language, where the options and arguments go to separate commands; one to the compiler and one to the binary itself

or Java, where the file needs to be named the same as the class inside: how do you do that step?

N3buchadnezzar

Uugh

hyper-neutrino

ew java

user

@pxeger You can run java Foo.java to make it compile and run on its own (without first running javac Foo.java and then java Foo)

hyper-neutrino

the proper solution is to not corrupt ATO with java

user

17:01

Same with scala Foo.scala

Aaron Miller

I can't get to ATO while I'm at work since it gets blocked by our firewall. It gets blocked by geolocation because it's in Finland.

pxeger

@user but if Foo.java contains class Bar {...}, that won't work will it?

user

@pxeger It should iirc

pxeger

@AaronMiller I can move it easily to Germany, would that solve your problem?

user

As long as Bar contains a main method, of course

Aaron Miller

17:02

@pxeger Probably not

hyper-neutrino

wait how fast can you travel /s

user

@AaronMiller Is it because Finland's imaginary?

pxeger

well it's complicated to move it anywhere else unfortunately

the provider, Hetzner, is the best option for my use case but they only have Finland and Germany

Aaron Miller

@user Yeah, our firewall only allows real countries

N3buchadnezzar

g, to go forward and g; to go backwards in the changelist is really useful

N3buchadnezzar

17:26

@user We talked about navigation using fzf, maybe this helps =) youtube.com/watch?v=-I1b8BINyEw

caird coinheringaahing

17:43

Revamping the reopening process, looks amazing!

Redwolf Programs

The substantial edit option looks awesome

Unrelated String

ooh

caird coinheringaahing

I know :D If they're adding it for this, they might expand it to including bumping

hyper-neutrino

wow, very nice

i was just gonna bring ^^ up too :P

Redwolf Programs

Leave closed reasons look good too

N3buchadnezzar

17:45

@cairdcoinheringaahing I love how their example is about how to close vim

caird coinheringaahing

Plus, close reasons can now be modified if the question should stay closed but for a different reason :D

> If a significant edit fails to reopen a question, users will now have an opportunity to continue to rework and edit their question and have it reviewed multiple times. Reviewers will not be able to see the same question twice in the Reopen votes queue.

hyper-neutrino

hm, not sure how I feel about the last part of that

caird coinheringaahing

Damn, that could've been a way to get more RO reviews :/

I think it makes sense, especially on larger sites

hyper-neutrino

to be fair, if a reviewer rejects a reopen and wants to monitor it because they think someone/OP can fix it but just missed the mark a bit, they can just follow it

and this prevents getting an inflated number of reviews in terms of queue stats/progress, i guess

Redwolf Programs

That's true. Maybe adding a button to the "leave closed" option to make following easier would be good.

caird coinheringaahing

17:49

Yeah. It's not like it prevents users from keeping an eye on a repeatedly edited closed question, but it also allows for fresh eyes on a question

hyper-neutrino

actually drafting an FR for that rn :p

caird coinheringaahing

How to get easy MM rep: follow the product-discovery and announcement tags, then post FRs relating to new posts on them :P

user

How to get easy MM rep: Bribe someone at SE to give you a job, threaten the devs into implementing something with lots of community support, announce it as soon as it happens

If someone tries to steal your thunder, burn their laptop

hyper-neutrino

How to get easy MM rep: be a mod and post questions/answers to things that only mods can really know about / answer

N3buchadnezzar

How to get easy MM rep: bribe someone

user

17:55

How to easy MM rep: Be a well-respected user and post quality content over the years, then announce that you're leaving

N3buchadnezzar

Too real

user

@N3buchadnezzar Who, Joel Spolsky?

caird coinheringaahing

"I am mod, let me nuke users i dislike" - ♦ (+20)
"good point, we should be able to do that" - ♦ (+15)
"wait, that sounds unfair" - non♦ (-10)

hyper-neutrino

lol

alternatively, have no life, realize chat is broken within like 3 seconds of it going down, and FGITW the bug report

user

How to get easy MM rep: Make a botnet to downvote all of your posts (and maybe a few other users). Lose 1000 rep just before UTC 0000, gain it all back the next day :P

hyper-neutrino

17:59

> easy

Redwolf Programs

> get ... rep

user

@hyper-neutrino I mean, none of the last four suggestions (other than maybe fgitwing the bug report) were easy

hyper-neutrino

lol, fair

user

@RedwolfPrograms You get rep, it just happens to be rep that you previously owned

Perhaps bribing someone would be easy if you were rich enough

hyper-neutrino

I don't see how bribing someone would really work though... ?

Redwolf Programs

18:02

Just have them add some code that makes old unused accounts upvote your posts ten or so times a day.

user

@hyper-neutrino Apply for a job, bribe the interviewer, get hired, announce features as an employee

hyper-neutrino

ah

user

@RedwolfPrograms That works too, although ten times sounds a bit sus

hyper-neutrino

yeah, still not easy even if you are rich

Redwolf Programs

@user ten or so times, make it vary between 8 and 18 or something like that

I doubt people would notice

user

18:04

Alternatively, you could ~~bribe~~ lobby Congressmen to pass a wacky law to let users change their reputation/score/points on sites such as SE

@RedwolfPrograms Even that sounds sus, unless you post very consistently

Redwolf Programs

If somebody were to see your posts with lots of votes, the first thing they'd think of wouldn't be "oh, xyz bribed SE to get this rep". Just delete any mod flags or meta posts mentioning it and nothing will ever happen.

user

No, but tey'd think "Oh, xyz did voter farud'"

hyper-neutrino

deleting mod flags would still eventually get you noticed even if you did it before site mods saw the flags

Redwolf Programs

How?

hyper-neutrino

eventually a mod would stumble across the post and maybe click the flag icon cuz they're bored or smth

Redwolf Programs

18:07

I still don't see how that'd let them notice

hyper-neutrino

well they might think something's wrong

and then they'd check the voting tool and not see anything suspicious as long as you scatter it across a bunch of accounts

Redwolf Programs

Just make the posts feature requests for mostly useless quality of life stuff, so it sort of makes sense why they're getting votes

A few people might notice the odd voting, but they'd be unable to communicate it to anyone

Relevant XKCD

hyper-neutrino

with this much power, i don't think SE rep would be what one would care about anymore :p

Anush

dear C people, what is the difference between -pthread and -lpthread in gcc?

hyper-neutrino

I accidentally just dequeued an answer from the review queue that isn't a serious competitive but that I didn't want to delete so soon :/

Unrelated String

18:18

f

Redwolf Programs

Why is YT giving me the "which of these brands do you have a positive opinion of" poll...for children's hospitals? What kind of person has a negative opinion on those lol

Aaron Miller

18:31

* laughs nervously *

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms tbf I have a negative opinion on the hospital I went to as a child, because I associated it with being hurt

Redwolf Programs

Fair enough I guess

caird coinheringaahing

I also don't have a positive opinion on any hospital, because I don't have opinions on hospitals tbh

Unrelated String

^

hyper-neutrino

@AaronMiller :concerned:

Redwolf Programs

18:34

^^^ That's another reason it's a stupid poll

hyper-neutrino

also I mean, I guess one could have a negative opinion on a children's hopsital that abuses children / exploits funds / whatever other evil things you can do

Unrelated String

yeah some of the listed children's hospitals could do some charity fraud stuff

N3buchadnezzar

I just spent like 2 hours reading through all the SO drama, jeesh glad I was not around for that.

caird coinheringaahing

I suppose that thinking there should be more hospitals counts as a positive opinion on hospitals in general, but not on any specific ones

@N3buchadnezzar All the drama?

N3buchadnezzar

2 No need to discuss the drama here, but hopefully things will improve moving forwards =)

caird coinheringaahing

18:35

That'll take days

user

@N3buchadnezzar What is it with that guy and coconut oil?

Redwolf Programs

> As a direct result of unexpected supply constraints, we now expect your order to ship on a revised date of 8/4/2021.

Well I guess no language golfiness rankings any time soon

Or hunter-gather koth

hyper-neutrino

F

N3buchadnezzar

@user No oil, no nut.

user

@RedwolfPrograms I have a negative opinion of the hospital where I was born because they didn't accidentally swap me and the child of some uber-rich people /s

N3buchadnezzar

18:40

Just watch it = )

user

I saw multiple images of coconut oil last time

N3buchadnezzar

Who does not love coconut oil?

user

People who hate coconut oil

Redwolf Programs

@N3buchadnezzar Coconuts

hyper-neutrino

do babies hate baby oil?

if not, coconuts hating coconut oil is not necessarily a fact. unless you've asked a coconut

user

18:42

@hyper-neutrino idk, does anyone remember being a baby?

Redwolf Programs

I think if baby oil was made from babies it'd be hated more

hyper-neutrino

hmmm

Redwolf Programs

Unless coconut oil is intended for oiling coconuts and is not actually made from them

N3buchadnezzar

@user I mean. I think you remember yesterday?

user

@RedwolfPrograms Oops

hyper-neutrino

18:43

wait, is that not what y'all use your coconut oil for?

user

I've been making baby oil wrong all this time :P

@N3buchadnezzar ಠ_ಠ

N3buchadnezzar

Why would anyone oil babies? Does that not make them incredibly slippery and hard to handle?

hyper-neutrino

probably for skin dryness or similar

user

@N3buchadnezzar Of course, then it's easier to play ice hockey using them

N3buchadnezzar

Here take this precious ming vase to handle. Oh, we also used slippery ming vase oil on it. Take care

user

18:45

Serious question, though: Why would anyone oil a coconut?

@N3buchadnezzar Is the ming vase oil made out of ming vases?

Redwolf Programs

I've been trying for years but I can't get any trombone oil out of my trombone

N3buchadnezzar

@RedwolfPrograms You might need to see a proctologist for that

user

Step 1: Feed the trombone coconut oil
Step 2: Turn trombone upside down
Step 3: Wiggle the trombone
Step 4:???
Step 5: Profit!

Redwolf Programs

"Wiggle the trombone" is the best sentence in english

user

CMC: Best sentence in English

hyper-neutrino

18:48

Best sentence

user

Argh

What is the best sentence in English?

Redwolf Programs

I've been seeing a lot of unbolded "CMC"s lately and I am not a fan

user

> This one is because it's not a real CMC

Adám

Agreed.

N3buchadnezzar

All the faith he had had had had no effect on the outcome of his life.

user

18:49

@RedwolfPrograms nO, yOu'Re ReDwOlF

hyper-neutrino

James while John had had had had had had had had had had had a better effect on the teacher

Redwolf Programs

Yeah but I don't think anyone would be able read that

Four hads is the max I can understand

user

1 had is the max I can understand, after that, I get nauseous

AviFS

@hyper-neutrino is starting an interactive Jelly tutorial!

hyper-neutrino

also, it relies on not quoting or using punctuation, so is arguably incorrect

like, the "had"s aren't being used for their grammatical purpose but are quoted terms, so I'd hardly consider that a real garden path sentence

Redwolf Programs

18:51

@AviFS Letting them announce it is probably better

hyper-neutrino

indeed. I just started it last night and it has pretty much nothing in it, so that's why i'm not starring/pinning it here or JHT

caird coinheringaahing

@RedwolfPrograms I unbolded my last one because otherwise it would've been "too long"

user

@RedwolfPrograms You yourself have an unbolded "CMC" there

hyper-neutrino

CMC: annoy redwolf

N3buchadnezzar

Pack my box with five dozen liquor jugs.

caird coinheringaahing

18:53

Let me just write a bot to ping them every 30 seconds :P

Redwolf Programs

CMC: actually isn't that bad

N3buchadnezzar

^ A very smol pangram

Redwolf Programs

@cairdcoinheringaahing You mean an ordinary conversation?

I have pings on for all messages :p

caird coinheringaahing

Oh right, I forgot you're a monster :P

Redwolf Programs

I have no life and must be able to immediately read messages completely irrelevant to me :p

hyper-neutrino

18:55

now just join like 30 different rooms and suffer

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms Ah, didn't realize that was GH etiquette, but that makes sense!

Redwolf Programs

Unrelated, anyone here play SMM2?

N3buchadnezzar

@cairdcoinheringaahing Says the one who neither uses git nor vim :p

hyper-neutrino

@AviFS it isn't particularly anything etiquette it's just that it's not really ready for advertising :P

pxeger

@RedwolfPrograms I watch it on Twitch and YT

caird coinheringaahing

18:55

@N3buchadnezzar That's called being sensible :P

hyper-neutrino

i mean, if anyone wants, they can start up an instance and take a look at it, but it's just one webpage, i'm still working out details

AviFS

@N3buchadnezzar Caird doesn't use git either?!

Redwolf Programs

@pxeger Which YTers?

pxeger

Jul 3 at 11:02, by pxeger

a fellow CarlSagan42 viewer?

+ PangeaPanga + FreakAndGeek

AviFS

@cairdcoinheringaahing Are these allegations true?

caird coinheringaahing

18:56

Yes

Redwolf Programs

I mostly watch Panga, used to watch DGR and Rays

AviFS

Do you use a different version control system?

caird coinheringaahing

Version control software is for people who make mistakes when coding :P

N3buchadnezzar

@pxeger I grew a bit tired of all the Trolled videos. I occacionaly watch Dave just for something very uplifting

pxeger

me too

they seemed a bit saturating on the attention span

Redwolf Programs

18:57

Panga's doing a 1000 expert level no-skip challenges right now

pxeger

yes, that too gets a little tiring

Redwolf Programs

It's pretty good, although it gets a bit boring after 800 or so :p

N3buchadnezzar

@RedwolfPrograms This sentence makes absolutely no sense to anyone not familiar with MM2, I love it!

AviFS

@RedwolfPrograms and others: Does someone mind sending a TIO link with settings? Not 'arguments' or 'command-line options.' The mythical settings!

N3buchadnezzar

100 expert level, no coconut nut challenge

Redwolf Programs

18:58

@N3buchadnezzar I mean "1000 expert level no-skip" isn't that hard to parse, as long as you're familiar with what SMM2 is :p

AviFS

I want to test the TIO-API link parser

Redwolf Programs

@AviFS Just a second, I'll go try to generate one

AviFS

Thanks!

caird coinheringaahing

@AviFS I think settings is an internal option, not something languages can use

Redwolf Programs

Try: tio.run/##K0gtyjH9/7@isur/fwA

Not sure if it'll have the compat setting or not

AviFS

18:59

Hmm, I don't see the settings anywhere? Where would it come up?

Will it run differently, maybe?

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