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12:50 AM
waves
 
Hallo
What does it mean when the question asks "Express the height of the spaceship as a function of the angle of elevation (theta)" versus "Express the angle of elevation (theta) as a function of height (h) of the spaceship?" You don't really need to know the specific question (unless you want to see it) but what does it mean "express (X) as a function of (Y)?
Like
theta=arcsin(x/y)?
Or h=sin(theta)?
 
"express x as a function of y" means "write a function x(y)"
so for a) you have to write a function for height (h) and the equation should be in terms of theta
 
And b would be like theta=arctan(h/2)?
 
I don't understand "Yes b, not a"
 
12:55 AM
but the other message looks good
 
SOHCAHTOA, right? wouldn't it just be tan(theta) = h (opposite)/2 (adjacent)
 
And A would be h=2tan(theta) then
@Sciborg I was confused on what it meant to "express X as a function of Y"
 
that means you're having "h" be your "Y" and "theta" be your "X"
so in this case, you would multiply both sides by 2 and get 2tan(theta) = h
 
Right
Okay, thank you. Just a wording problem
 
yup
 
12:57 AM
"express X as a function of Y" = "tell me how I'd find X if I gave you Y"
 
Ahhh, thank you
 
 
2 hours later…
3:14 AM
So quick background info
I was supposed to graph y=arcsin|x|. I
Ohhh nvm nvm
 
Self-solved? :)
 
Yup
I got it correct, I just didn't read the note :P
 
:D
 
3:27 AM
@Deusovi Are you free?
 
sure
 
Okay so I'm not sure how to solve this question:
arcsin(2x)+arccosin(x)=pi/6
I'm assuming they want me to solve for x
But I'm lost
 
well, first of all - can you bound x? find a minimum and maximum value for it?
 
Hm
X must be in quadrant I, because that's not only where arcsin and arccosin overlap, but also that's the only place it'd make sense
To get a positive value, that is
Unless... x could be a negative value, I guess
If the x is large enough
Actually, I'm not sure
I know it's at least not zero
Oh, wait I kind of see what you mean
The lowest value of X can be -0.5, and the highest value can be 0.5
Any smaller or larger, and arcsin(2x) ceases to have be a function, because it'd be greater than 1
Right?
Um, Deus?
 
@PrinceNorthLæraðr that's right, but not because it "ceases to have be a function", but because it is no longer defined
 
3:38 AM
Right
 
ah sorry, was gone for a sec
right
now, what are the behaviours of arcsin(2x) and arccos(x) on that interval?
 
what do you mean?
Um
 
just generally, what do the graphs look like?
 
ah
Arcsin generally increases while arccos generally decreases
 
can you compare their speeds? is one of them increasing/decreasing faster than the other?
 
3:41 AM
Arcsin would be increasing faster
 
at every point?
 
yep, seems that way to me too
 
not saying you're wrong here, just trying to get you to consider these things and justify them to yourself
so what is the behaviour of their sum?
 
3:43 AM
Right
@Deusovi Behavior of their sum?
 
you've got one function that's increasing and another that's decreasing. what about their sum? it could do either, or it could stay constant -- but you also know that one of the increases/decreases is always going faster than the other
meaning that if you take a tiny step, the increase is always going to be more than the decrease
 
Oh I see
I would suppose it would be positive
 
what is "it" here?
 
The sum of their behaviors
 
well, you don't know anything about their actual values yet - we're just talking about relative behaviour. they could both be massively negative and still have one increase and the other decrease
 
3:46 AM
I'm confused now but okay
 
alright, we can back up then
you have two functions that are being added together. you don't know whether they're positive or negative (well, you do in this particular case, but it's not relevant here)
 
if you take a tiny step forward, one of them will increase and the other will decrease. and you know that the increasing function goes faster -- the increase will be more than the decrease
 
given that, what can you say about their sum?
 
3:49 AM
It will increase or decrease based upon what arcsin(2x) is?
 
explain?
i didn't mention "arcsin(2x)" at all
 
Hm, a bit confused
 
you have two columns of stuff (either of which could be negative). every minute, you add some stuff onto the left column and take it away from the right column (potentially going negative). you always add more than you take away. what can you say about your total amount of stuff over time?
 
3:51 AM
It's going to grow larger
 
do you see how this is analogous to the increasing and decreasing functions?
 
the increase is always going faster than the decrease. and since you're adding them together, that means your total will be growing overall (specifically, it will be growing by [increase amount] - [decrease amount])
 
So what does this have to do with solving our problem?
 
in other words: arcsin(2x)+arccosin(x) is strictly increasing.
 
3:54 AM
Ah okay
 
this is an important fact! because this means it can only take on any value once
 
Ohhh, okay
 
> arcsin(2x)+arccosin(x)=pi/6
that was our original equation. so we know it can't have more than one solution -- it has either one solution, or none at all
 
I really don't understand what's going on
 
3:55 AM
and we also have a bounded interval, where we know if there's a solution, the solution will be on that interval
 
@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica (Please don't interrupt anon)
@Deusovi Right
 
@Anonymus25-ReinstateMonica right now i'm helping North with math. you likely have not learned this yet - please don't interrupt
so, why don't we check to see if the solution exists at all first
 
How would we do that?
 
please excuse the bad drawing:
you don't know what exactly the values are, but you know it looks something like this
 
3:57 AM
and you have a horizontal line -- you want to find out where it intersects that red curve (if it does at all)
 
go on?
 
No I mean
I see what you're saying
 
ah alright
so, if i draw a horizontal line, how can it fail to intersect the red curve?
there are two ways it can fail
 
It falls below the line
 
4:00 AM
yep, that's one option
 
Or it's too far above the line
 
and that's the other
so, how can you check if it's too high or too low?
 
Ummm
sorry wrong chat
 
(ok i was very confused)
 
I would have to find where the graph passes the y-intercept
 
4:02 AM
the midpoint?
 
And the slope of the graph as well?
 
explain? how would that tell you if my horizontal line was above or below the red curve?
 
Oh I don't know what my red curve looks like
 
right
you know a function describing it though
 
4:06 AM
"if the horizontal line is above [...], it's too high."
"if the horizontal line is below [...], it's too low."
can you fill in the blanks here?
 
If the horizontal line is above the red graph, it's too high, if the horizontal line is below the red graph, it's too low
 
okay, yes, but you need some way to actually make that comparison
 
if i told you i drew my line at y=3, how could you know whether it was too high or too low?
what would you compare 3 to?
 
4:08 AM
well, pi/6 is the actual place the line is drawn
 
i'm sorry if i'm not being helpful - i'd suggest looking for someone else if i'm causing you this much stress
 
No it's okay
I'm just trying ot think
 
 
2 hours later…
5:56 AM
@Deusovi Btw, thanks for all your help. It's not that I was overwhelmed or anything, but I just didn't really know what was going on
 
I've backread a bit and I could try helping in the morning? That was going to be Lit-question-writing time but helping you takes priority.
 
 
9 hours later…
3:05 PM
@bobble I actually figured out the question :)
 
:D
 
'borg!
Quick question
 
Hit me up
 
So it looks like Rangers got revised in UA, am I allowed to take some of the buffs as soon as I figure out what got changed?
 
Are you speaking of the Revised Ranger class?
 
3:07 PM
Yup
 
It's a whole different class, not just adjustments - you've committed to a Regular Ranger so it wouldn't really be fair to switch class
 
Ah, drat :/
 
They're both solid, don't worry.
 
Hmph okay
Ah, I see
They got rid of extra attack from base regular ranger from revised ranger and moved it to a subclass
 
They made a lot of little tweaks, yeah - it was mostly to make Beastmaster Ranger a little more competitive.
 
3:09 PM
Am I allowed to take the new subclasses like Gloomstalker?
(Well that's from Xanather)
 
For sure, when you get to the level that you can pick a subclass
 
Oooh okay!
 
One of my other players is doing a Gloomstalker and they are tons of fun
 
It seems like it
Okay, I gotta return to English :)
 
Farewell, my branchy friend :D
bobble's here!
 
3:17 PM
Oh yeah bobble so my tutor yesterday provided by my school were absolutely useless
 
bobble was reading a very long article about anxiety and then checked their college app portals and now is here
 
applause
 
3:25 PM
i think my favorite North Doodle is still the Phoenix Wright one :P
 
which chatroom did i post that one in? i can't find it, i must locate Lawyer North
 
:D
i don't know why that one just cracks me up
gotta shower and make lunch so i will be back in a bit <3
 
3:45 PM
Ugh
So we had a discussion activity in Engish
And I couldn't hear the person's evidence they offered because they were in class and I was at home
 
Thank you, North
 
Urm I didn't do that
 
@user586228: this isn't a room to just ask for personal tutoring, especially if you can't be bothered to even type the problem out. Mostly it's North's friends here.
 
@user586228 This is more of my personal room, I would prefer you at least ask before posting a question
 
Anyways, I as considering a short kick for so blatantly interrupting, but seeing as it's deleted now I'll stay my hand
 
3:48 PM
@PrinceNorthLæraðr Sorry
May I post here
 
Not now?
 
@user586228 I'd rather you not. You can always ask in the Math SE chatroom
 
North was talking, you did the equivalent of barging in, knocking him over, and proceeding to yell "I NEED HELP" without explaining why
 
ok if u like u can aswer
answer
 
3:50 PM
Also we don't use "u = you" in here, basically, and...
 
I'm sorry, but I don't really know who you are, and like I said, this is more of a private room
 
I kicked them for 1 minute
 
Ah, you shouldn't have
I was going to direct them to Math SE's room
 
They're in a room called Mathematics
 
Hm, it looks like they ask there fairly often anyways
Should I start making this room gallery?
I would rather not
But
Okay, if random people start dropping by more frequently I'd probably have to change it to gallery-only. But I'd like to make that like a last-resort option
 
3:54 PM
So far that would've prevented Avagrail, anon25, 00xxqhxx00, and them from popping in
I think that's everyone?
 
Three people. That's not too big of a problem
 
4
 
Okay true
If more people start to think this is a tutoring room then I'll make it gallery only
Anyhow, back to my English thing
So I ended up giving the same piece of evidence as the person in class, because again, I couldn't hear them and now I'm not going to get a 100 on this assignment
I can't afford to take any more non-100s in English, I already have a C
Gah!
And I have a math test coming up
In like 3 minutes
 
virtual hugs
 
You may post the cursed image
 
Anyhow, I think with new users I'm a bit more sympathetic towards them (maybe more than I should be) because I used to be that annoying new user :P
I'm reading some of my older post and I cringe
Like, starting from here, for example
in The Sphinx's Lair, Mar 26 '18 at 15:13, by North
I think Deusovi should be banned from Puzzling. https://puzzling.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6155/should-we-ban-deusovi-fro‌​m-puzzle-solving/6160#6160
Test in 4 minutes... gah!
 
... I wish humn would stop Troll-ifying the Lair
 
You can private message Deus
 
Yeah, it's getting slightly excessive now. I was joking around with them a bit but now I kinda feel like it's spam.
 
I felt it was spammy from the start, though that might've been me just wanting "normality" from the Lair
 
4:13 PM
I don't mind them posting music videos once in a while, but they've started posting like three or four in a row and spamming random words
It's crossed a line for me
 
okay, I was worried that me being annoyed was just me
 
no, i'm bothered too now.
 
4:44 PM
> replaced MathJax with Markdown table (more accessible), but more importantly "Jedi" is a plural
edit reason
 
woohoo!
Finished my math test
I think I actually got a hundred!
 
yay!
 
Not only did I finish my test on time, I actually finished with so much time left I was able to do the entire test twice!
 
woot!
 
(I usually double-check my answer by doing the entire problem over again, to see if there were any errors)
Do you not have work today 'borg?
 
4:53 PM
shhhh
 
Ah okay
I thought you had a day off or something
No worries :D
 
don't tell on me :P
 
I won't :P
 
5:08 PM
Yay! I just checked my work with two other people in my class for math, and I'm very sure I got a hundred
I am so very happy right now :D
 
Well done!
Did you figure out the arcsin/arccos thing, or give up on it, or are you still looking for advice?
 
I figured it out :)
I realized I could isolate arccos(x)
So subtract arsin(2x) from both sides
And the take the cos of both sides
which isolates x on the left side
And then the right side becomes cosine addition formula
Simplifying everything gives you x=1/2 :)
 
@bobble been a while since we've seen this
 
You thought the cursed image was dead... you were wrong
 
@GarethMcCaughan I'm a bit upset that I wasted 2 hours working with cough underqualified tutors (not Deusovi, I went to a tutoring site my school provided). I was transferred three times (took up 30 minutes of doing nothing) and my last tutor started the conversation with "So, sin^-1 is 1/sin, right?"
 
5:23 PM
I think I'm confused. So you start with arcsin 2x + cos x = pi/6. Then you subtract arcsin 2x from both sides: cos x = pi/6 - arcsin 2x. Then you take cosines: x = cos (pi/6 - arcsin 2x). This all seems very reasonable but x isn't isolated on the LHS -- you still have an x on the right.
 
(Ouch! In fairness, the sin^... notation is Really Stupid, albeit also Really Convenient, and I have a lot of sympathy with anyone who finds it confusing.)
 
(it is very confusing)
 
coughs and raises hand
 
@GarethMcCaughan Made a right triangle for arcsin(2x)
I'm going to call the angle of arcsin(2x) as theta
so cos(pi/6)cos(theta)+sin(pi/6)sin(theta)
(Drawing right triangle)
cos(theta) would be sqrt(1-4x^2) and sin(theta) is 2x
 
5:27 PM
Yeah, I understand where you're going. It's just you said "which isolates x on the left side" at a point at which you hadn't yet isolated x :-).
 
Ah, sorry about that :p
Do you know where Deusovi was trying to go with his graph explanation?
I was a bit lost
 
So, anyway ... after doing those calculations, did you check whether the resulting x actually satisfies the equation you were given?
 
Yes! It was -1/2
 
Ah, good!
Because earlier you said x = 1/2
 
Oh did I? My mistake
 
5:28 PM
and in fact 1-4x^2=0 has two solutions and the one that actually works here is the other one :-)
 
But I was curious on what deus was trying to get at with the whole red line thing
 
Anyway, as for where Deusovi was headed, I have some ideas.
 
So, imagine a horizontal line at some value of y (which actually is pi/6, but never mind that for the moment). You want to know whether it crosses over that red line or not.
 
5:31 PM
If you imagine the line moving, say, upwards from y=-oo towards y=+oo, what happens is that for very-negative y you have no solutions, then at some point you start having solutions, and then you stop and for very-positive y there are no solutions again.
Can you say -- in terms of features of that red line that you might be able to work out -- where you switch from "no solution" to "one solution" and back to "no solution" again?
 
urmmmm
Within the range of the red line? I'm not sure
 
What do you mean by the "range of the red line"?
(That's not code for "I don't think you mean anything that makes sense", for the avoidance of doubt!)
 
The maximum y value of the red line and the minimum y value of the red line
Though that doesn't really help
 
Yeah, it does.
 
Oh, I thought it was a bit redundant
 
5:35 PM
So, can you work out what those min and max y values of the red line are?
 
Oh, I see. I would need to input 0.5 and -0.5
(for x)
(solving)
 
Right. So, if you put those in, you can work out what values you get, because +-1 and +-1/2 are easy things to take the arcsin and arccos of.
 
In fact, you should already know what the answers are, because it happens that you already checked -1/2 and +1/2 as possible values of x :-).
 
So pi/2+pi/4 which is uh (mathing)
 
5:37 PM
wait, where did pi/4 come from?
 
cos(0.5) oh smh that's not rad2/2
pi/2+pi/3
 
That looks better. So that's 5pi/6, and that's the largest arcsin 2x + arccos x can be.
And for x=-1/2 you get ...
 
(calculating)
 
again, you surely have already done that particular calculation...
 
well, pi/6 :P
 
5:39 PM
Right!
 
I just wanted to work it out
And it just so happens match our equation
cos(-0.5)=cos(0.5), correct? Because cos is an even function? Why does that look wrong?
 
So, to recap: You figured out that f(x) = arcsin 2x + arccos x is only defined on -1/2 <= x <= +1/2, and that it's a strictly increasing function there. That means that for y between f(-1/2) and f(+1/2) inclusive there's exactly one x with f(x) = y, and for y outside that range there are none. You found that f(-1/2) happens to equal pi/6, which is the value of y you wanted, so you're done.
 
Ohhhhhh
That is
Really clever
 
Yes, cos -1/2 = cos 1/2. If it looks wrong, it's probably because you very seldom actually want cos 1/2: you want things like cos pi/2 and cos -pi/6 and so on. Or arccos 1/2 (but probably not arccos pi/3).
Now, I don't know whether Deusovi had already figured out that the "endpoint" -1/2 was actually going to be the answer to the question or not. He might well have. But if not, there was still some point in what he was doing.
 
Oh wait I keep confusing arccos(x) with cos(x)
 
5:42 PM
Because then it might have turned out that pi/6 was outside the attainable interval from f(-1/2) to f(+1/2), in which case you'd be able to say "no solutions" without doing any further work.
 
Or it might have turned out that it was inside the interval, in which case you'd know there was just one solution but not yet know what it was.
At that point, though, it might have turned out profitable to guess some convenient values of x and see what they did, just in case the answer was a nice one. If so, then you'd have been able to say "well, x=... is a solution, as we can see by just calculating arcsin 2x and arccos 2x. And it's the only solution because f(x) is strictly increasing."
 
Anyway, I need to go and make some dinner now. Well done for figuring the answer out independently! (I think the way you did it was a good way.)
 
That's a clever little trick! I just was thinking in terms of formulas and algebraic manipulation
See ya!
 
5:44 PM
It's good to have both ways of thinking in your toolbox.
In practice, when there's some equation to solve it's often helpful to have a (mental or sketched or computer-plotted) picture to give you some intuition for roughly what you expect the solution to look like.
Anyway, gone now. Bye!
 
Seeya Gareth :)
 
6:17 PM
could they just stop?
I've sent out all the applications that I'm going to
 
Pfft that's my inbox too
 
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