@Skillmon That's a little more complex for me :), I usually guide myself by pieces of code from the answers that are here in the forum or I convert what I can from LaTeX2e to expl3 (just because I like to see the power that expl3 has in action). I took the idea of using coffins from the reasoning of (tex.stackexchange.com/q/243930/7832) and (tex.stackexchange.com/a/426120/7832) ...in my mind it looked easier than using \hbox_...Reading the documentation for l3box now :D

@Plergux Apparently my sarcasm doesn't always shine through. :D

@UlrikeFischer Thanks, that helped a lot! The issue is actually \CurrentFile being emptied in the file. Here's a simpler example:

\begin{filecontents}{testA.tex}
\def\CurrentFile{}
\end{filecontents}

\documentclass{article}
\begin{document}
\AddToHook{file/after}{\typeout{ABC}}
\input{testA}
\end{document}

@UlrikeFischer We protected against that, but I moved some code to be safe in a substitution and screwed that up. This should fix the problem: pastebin.com/raw/bvp9Wf80

Sigh...

@UlrikeFischer I wonder if \CurrentFile et al. should be set globally...

@JosephWright The recipe for merging seems to be “use what's on master (with exceptions)”. I can do the merging, but what about this now ^^^

Sigh²

@LaTeXereXeTaL heh heh heh... sarcasm and the internet don't always mix very well for some reason :p Learned that the hard way. :|

@UlrikeFischer, @barbarabeeton, @CarLaTeX: audubon.org/news/heres-why-mama-merganser-has-more-50-ducklings

@PauloCereda Oooooohhhhh that's incredible!

@PhelypeOleinik I'd really like to get the two branches back in line

@PhelypeOleinik I've tried that, but the merge conflicts are only about minor version number stuff, and I get lots of issues about (I think) hook declaration

@Skillmon At least 5 years after it was added to pdfTeX, so 2025 I think

@PhelypeOleinik I saw that it was emptied, but was at first trying to understand why it happened if escapeinside is used.

@PhelypeOleinik I wondered about this too. I can't really think of a reason why not. The current file and the file stack sounds quite like a global property too me.

@JosephWright I can do the merging later today ([978/3987, 11:43:53/44:47:25] install: dice [5k]).

@JosephWright There are two kernel enddocument hooks that need to move earlier in the kernel, so that may be it...

@PhelypeOleinik new computer? Or why are you reinstalling texlive?

@UlrikeFischer It shouldn't be necessary, if I didn't break code :-) But it seems a good idea just to be on the safe side

@UlrikeFischer My girlfriend's computer. I'm not at home for a few days

@PhelypeOleinik It's non-trivial ... I'm getting all sorts of errors when I run the test suite

@PhelypeOleinik I don't see any what you gain from a local variable apart from bugs if the grouping interferes in the storing/restoring code ;-)

@JosephWright if the coronathingy does not kill us until there... :)

@PauloCereda :)

@JosephWright or other dissolutions in the meantime...

@PauloCereda Yup

@JosephWright If I don't run it, are the problems gone? ;-) (I'll check as soon as I have l3build)

@PhelypeOleinik YES

@PhelypeOleinik Oh, I can merge happily, just a few tidy-ups of the vX.Yz DDDD/MM/YY stuff

@PhelypeOleinik ^^ <3

@JosephWright Okay

@PauloCereda Exactly!

Does tikz parse macros in a special way?

I quickfixed via \tikzset{myGreenStyle/.style={fill=green}}, \foo{myGreenStyle}, still, I would love to know why the above fails.

@ComFreek you would see same with most keyval parsers eg \includegraphics would work the same way

@ComFreek it's possible to make it work (by putting some constraints on the possible names and values of keys) but not working is the expected behaviour as the argument is split up on , and = and there is no = in that argument.

@ComFreek if it is just one macro at teh start of the argument then \expandafter\draw\expandafter[#1] would make your example work, but if you want macros expanded anywhere in the argument beware what you ask for...

Okay, thanks!

I'll stick with my tikz style quickfix then.

@DavidCarlisle out of curiosity, did you write this package? npmjs.com/package/isarray It has just one line of code.

@PauloCereda yes

@DavidCarlisle ooh

@DavidCarlisle weekly downloads: 23227693 :)

@PauloCereda -- That's a fine flotilla! Thanks.

@JosephWright life is hard :(

@JosephWright is it fine to only provide a macro if \tex_expanded:D is available?

@Skillmon in a package yes, I think probably no in the core

@Plergux \begin{sarcasm} <...stuff...> \end{sarcasm} might be more appropriate around here. :D

@LaTeXereXeTaL there is never any sarcasm in this channel, everything should be taken as literal truth.

@DavidCarlisle Isn't that recursive sarcasm?

@DavidCarlisle But is it expandable?

@DavidCarlisle (well, there was a time when all the random functions weren't provided in XeTeX)

(I'll see what I can do to implement \clist_sort:nN without \tex_expanded:D)

@Skillmon yes true although xtetex (and especially luatex) are less stable at the engine level anyway so less of an issue but pdftex things are probably supposed to work. (although no point if it's massively slow/complicated/unmaintainable compared with the \expanded version.

@LaTeXereXeTaL expanded twice ^^

@DavidCarlisle Well done!

@LaTeXereXeTaL lol, very true. Though in my case you'd probably just do \sarcasm :p

@Plergux People tend to think I'm either depressed all the time or angry all the time.

@LaTeXereXeTaL or both

@DavidCarlisle Yes that too.

@LaTeXereXeTaL which makes you even more sarcastic... :p

@Plergux Sometimes is scares me because a lesser person might use it to manipulate other people. I don't want to do that (hmmm...or do I?)

@LaTeXereXeTaL Well, it depends. Context is everything with these things.

@Plergux I just continue to observe and let people think what they want to think.

@LaTeXereXeTaL I think that's the best way. Just leave them to their stuff and hope they leave you to yours. :p

@Plergux It may be cultural too. Before visiting this room, I had no idea that most work in TeX and friends was done in Europe and other regions. I'm merely an American...and you know what they say about Americans...

@LaTeXereXeTaL Well, in linguistics the first thing you learn is that there is always an exception :p

@Plergux Had I not gone into astronomy and physics I think linguistics would have been a good choice.

That or music.

@LaTeXereXeTaL Linguistics is fun. Especially psycholinguistics and semantics (how meaning is made). And music is cool. I studied music for ten years. :)

@Plergux I'm very interested in how languages impedes the ability to learn, especially for students in introductory physics courses.

@LaTeXereXeTaL You mean lack of skill with it?

An I'm sitting here as we speak working on the next version of mandi, and I'm giving great thought to the semantics of command names.

@Plergux No. I mean by using essentially meaningless words (e.g. gravity, electricity, heat...there are many others) that students typically use as a substitute for unlearned concepts.

The word "electricity" can have man meanings: current, charge, potential, potential difference, electric force, current density, etc.

@LaTeXereXeTaL I think we are going to have a fundamental disagreement here, because I would argue that you wouldn't use the word if it had no meaning for you. It might have a slightly different meaning depending on context, but there would always be some meaning. Otherwise it wouldn't communicate anything. And wouldn't the solution then be to say "current" or "charge" and not "electricity"? :p

@Plergux You're not entirely wrong. For example, I think when students recklessly use the word "gravity" they're trying to conceptualize "mass." However, textbook authors are among the worst at misusing terminology ironically.

@LaTeXereXeTaL Now that is annoying :|

The problem from the instructional side is that it's VERY difficult to erase the misconceptions and introduce the correct conceptualization so that the terminology is correct.

@Plergux All you have to do is ask a physics student, "What is energy?" and be prepared to hear the biggest word salad you've ever heard. LOL

@LaTeXereXeTaL Lol. Then I think it's good you didn't go into linguistics. That's one big "word salad" from beginning to end XD

@Plergux In a way, I'm using LaTeX to explore whether or not consistent use of semantically named commands (defined by me) helps students with their reasoning.

@LaTeXereXeTaL That sounds cool :D

@Plergux Unfortunately, the only people who think this is a problem are a subset of physics instructors. Most everyone else ignores it.

Arnold Arons wrote extensively about this for decades.

@Plergux I should have said that the word "electricity" is incorrectly used as a substitute for ...all the other things I listed.... Of course I never use the word in teaching. I know the difference. It's the students who don't.

\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{unicode-math}

\begin{document}

$Γ ⊢ (M ⊧ φ)$

\end{document}

@ComFreek ^^^

egreg, this is wonderful! Thank you!

@Plergux Meeting him and talking with him was the highlight of my career.

@LaTeXereXeTaL Is he the sort of Chomsky of physicists? :p

@Plergux Hmmmmm.....hadn't thought of that, but quite possibly. Arons was definitely a founder of the discipline of physics education research and was the first person (that I know of) to think and write about the use of language in teaching physics (and science in general).

@LaTeXereXeTaL Cool. :) If I had time to read one thing he wrote, what would you recommend?

@Plergux That's like choosing a favorite child! LOL His 1997 book Teaching Introductory Physics (which is actually three books, two of which were previously published separately, on one) is a definitive standard. I have nearly all of his papers, and I can send you any of them. I can provide you with the book too. His papers on energy are eye-opening in that they were seen with skepticism by "experts" who were generally disconnected from the classroom.

Hang on and I'll see if I can pick ONE out....

@Plergux From a physics perspective, I'd pick his 1999 AJP paper Development of energy concepts in introductory physics courses.

I can send it to you if you wish.

@LaTeXereXeTaL That would be lovely. :) plergux@outlook.com :D

His linguistic stuff is in the 1997 book.

Stand by...

@DavidCarlisle well, it's a good edge slower than \tl_sort:nN (has to first read from clist and after sorting convert back to clist), and \tl_sort:nN isn't particularly fast without \tex_expanded:D.

@Plergux Done!

BTW, I have a blog at tensortime.sticksandshadows.com and I sometimes post on these matters.

BTW, all the mathematical notation on my blog is done in native LaTeX using the QuickLaTeX WordPress plugin.

@DavidCarlisle if a token list is blank, is there any possibility that its contents could be altered by e-expansion?

@Skillmon bugs are always possible (except in my code, of course) but other than that, no by definition I would say.

@Plergux Excellent!

@DavidCarlisle blank \neq empty (just in case you misunderstood the question) :)

@LaTeXereXeTaL boo images:-)

@Skillmon define "blank" ?

@DavidCarlisle I know, but at least I can seamlessly write LaTeX in my posts just like in any other document. It's better than MathJax.

@LaTeXereXeTaL still working on getting native math support in browsers, but still I'd rather see text than images, mathjax is a lot less jittery than it was (the code got better and browsers got faster) but needing tens of thousands of lines of javascript (or wordpress backend plugin code) to display a fraction is a failure of the web platform.

@DavidCarlisle MathJax can't use packages, and that's a dealbreaker for me.

@DavidCarlisle Still, I experimented with it here sticksandshadows.net/mathematics/mathjax/index.html

@LaTeXereXeTaL it can use some packages of course you just need some javascript to match the tex. But if you really want to show any latex with any latex package code then probably showing images of latex output will always be the best you can do.

@DavidCarlisle tested as "true" by \tl_if_blank:nTF.

@LaTeXereXeTaL mathjax3 is (usually) quicker than mathjax 2.7

@DavidCarlisle I tried literally every WP LaTeX plugin before settling on QuickLaTeX. Someone needs to write ONE language that does everything! LOL

@LaTeXereXeTaL yes write in English with no pesky accents for a start:-) and always program in Fortran

@LaTeXereXeTaL mathml-refresh.github.io/mathml-core

one day....

@DavidCarlisle In my first book, I ported FORTRAN to a compiled BASIC (Power BASIC) and ANSI C (with help from a friend in UK) and some readers reported that they'd, in turn, ported my code back to FORTRAN! UGH!

@LaTeXereXeTaL day job involves quite a bit of fortran... nag.com/numeric/nl/nagdoc_27.1

@DavidCarlisle English, French, I don't care. LOL

@DavidCarlisle I know. I've googled you! LOL

@DavidCarlisle Even heard one of your talks on YouTube. LOL

@Skillmon I don't think that e-expansion can do anything with it. Blank in this sense means containing just zero or more explicit space tokens, as far as I know.

@Skillmon I think my previous answer still holds though, shouldn't change but bugs are not impossible

@DavidCarlisle I'd love to see MathML become the standard.

@LaTeXereXeTaL if we can get it in to chrome and edge (and the first drops are already visible in chrome canary builds) things could move quickly. People will still want a javascript front end to parse latex-like syntax but the platform will be a lot more rational. Hopefully we can get the Math WG re chartered this month or next at the latest w3c.github.io/charter-drafts/math-2020.html

@DavidCarlisle what is "Talking Cat Software"??

@DavidCarlisle I'll be watching this.

@UlrikeFischer it's Neil

@DavidCarlisle yes, I got this, and I found a number of links. But no one explained what "talking cat software" is ;-(.

@UlrikeFischer It's Neil when he's acting as a consulting business as far as I know. I don't think there is an actual talking cat:-)

@DavidCarlisle pity ;-)