happy new year from The Netherlands!

@Marijn Happy new year, from the Philippines!

@Marijn Happy New Year from Italy!

It's Friday, 2020-13-01

@yo' oh no!

Happy new year!

ooh Brexit

@PauloCereda Happy New Year to you too!

@UlrikeFischer quack <3

Happy new year everybody!

@PauloCereda Don;t ....

@PauloCereda did you see about Gibraltar?

@Rmano You too

@JosephWright no, what happened?

@PauloCereda They've effectively ended up staying in the EU .... almost as though it's part of Spain ;)

@JosephWright oh

@PauloCereda Not exactly sure that was the Brexiter's plan ...

@PauloCereda Joseph will need a passport to go there, while we can enter it without one ...

@UlrikeFischer Yup

@UlrikeFischer that's the most funny sidr-effect of brexit I've heard about.

Btw, have you seen the bold statement by the Scottish First Minister? twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1344780841445154817?s=19

@JosephWright YEs, funny in a way. I have quite the suspect that the brexit agreement is basically the agreement for entering in the UE with a different page title... ;-)

@yo' It seems that @JosephWright will soon need a passport to go to Glasgow. ;-) Good 2021 to everybody!

Do I need a visa to enter UK now?

@DavidCarlisle first quack of 2021 <3

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas twitter.com/NintendoUK/status/1344946468164149248

WAIT WHAT twitter.com/Disneyland2go/status/1344701117947645952

@PauloCereda probably not, I don't think that the relation here changed (the UK wasn't part of the "Schengenraum").

@UlrikeFischer ooh

@PauloCereda not with an EU passport. With Brazillian, who knows.

@yo' oh

@yo' as long as I can enter Czechia, Germany and Italy, I am happy for now. :)

@PauloCereda @JosephWright and @DavidCarlisle can do that too ... maybe ... still ...

@yo' since David can fluently speak all languages, he can disguise as a citizen from another country. :)

@PauloCereda I'm afraid there're passport checks too ;)

Also, he has a TikZ gold badge, that should count for being a notable individual entering a country perimeter. :)

@yo' "Señor Carlisle". :)

@yo' Yes, but no longer as a right, now at the discretion of the destination

@egreg I suspect if and when, we'll have the same arrangement as currently with Ireland: Common Travel Area

@JosephWright ooh there's whiskey in the jar

@LaTeXereXeTaL I think it's underestimation syndrome. You think it's complicated because it used to be complicated. Now that it seems simple to you (because you've learned so much of it) you still think it's complicated and overthink it. :p

@Plergux this reminds me of this: youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

I love this comment to the video: So, logically...If a stupid person weighs the same as a duck... they're made of wood! And therefore....a witch!

@JosephWright ^^

@MarcelKrüger Happy new year!

@UlrikeFischer Happy new year to all of you too!!

@PauloCereda new year's lunch

@DavidCarlisle Happy new year to you too!

@UlrikeFischer happy new year. Can we blame you for Brexit.

@PauloCereda :D trust John Cleese to tell it like it is. :p

And happy new year to everyone. I survived new years eve so that's a good start :p

@DavidCarlisle oh no :-((

@UlrikeFischer I just closed two thirds of all lualibs issues thanks to the new release :)

@MarcelKrüger Saw it. I also tried yesterday to close some luaotfload issues, but most of them were to unclear yet.

@DavidCarlisle oh no

@Plergux :)

Happy New Year! I hope that in this 2021 for all users of TeX.SE: mathematics abounds, always adding the pleasure of nature and beautiful things, subtracting the pain of the heart, multiplying happiness ... But unfortunately for me for the division I have not yet thought about it ahahahahh.

HAPPY 2021!!!!!!

@PauloCereda The disguise only holds if he does not speak about pizza toppings :) (or lasagne sandwhich)

@PauloCereda :D

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas ooh :)

> Cork is now the second largest English speaking city in the EU

@JosephWright @DavidCarlisle ^^ oopsie

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Todo mundo em portugal come abacaxi na pizza

@DavidCarlisle pineapple codfish pizza :)

@PauloCereda This sounds even worse than ham and pineapple - I didn't think this would be possible

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas it is spooky!

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas You know what I think would be great for pizza? Ham, pineapple, and baked beans... :p

@Plergux One should make a study on pizza toppings vs. geographical factors. Maybe it is because you live on an island? Or the longitude or latitude?

@Plergux everytime I hear baked beans, I remember of this video: vimeo.com/63083013 :)

@AlanMunn @barbarabeeton ^^ :)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas I think it's probably distance from italy in correlation with whatever I got in the fridge :p

@Plergux LOL

@Plergux If it is the distance from Italy, then I must remember to never travel to geodatos.net/en/antipodes/italy/naples

Happy new year everyone!

@PauloCereda that's not true!

@yo' So, which city is it then?

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Ah I might be mistaken. Seems to depend on what a city is :-)

and I am mistaken. The thing is that while Malta is one city, the capital has officially only 5k

@yo' we can use \renewcommand{\city}{...} to fix the definition of city :)

by metro population, Malta is actually 2nd it seems :-)

Dublin will be no.2 - if the Scots get their will, that is. ;-)

@JosephWright if I want to write a module that works on different kinds of the built-in types of l3kernel (seq, clist, and tl) on a very low level, is it fine to use \__seq_item:n?

@Skillmon Not really - that's strictly internal to seq

@JosephWright do we have anything inside the backend code of dvips + xdvipdfmx which can be used to get the paper width and height? So that 0 0 ?? ?? describes the page coordinates?

@UlrikeFischer Not at present no

@UlrikeFischer We can certainly look at it

@barbarabeeton Oh, I didn't know it had made international news. There is indeed a lot of quick clay in Norway. I live in such an area myself, although my particular neighbourhood is supposed to be in a low risk area. There are higher risk areas very close by, however. Some of the most (in)famous quick clay slides in the country have indeed happened near Trondheim, where I live. …

… I notice that some of these are mentioned in the wikipedia article on the subject.

@PhelypeOleinik Fancy trying to merge master into default? I'm having ... fun

@JosephWright well I pondering about destinations and FitR and checked hyperref and the backend code here. pdftex and luatex allows to leave out the rule spec and simply use \pdfdest name{blub1} FitR. They then use the coordinates of the surrounding box. I would like to support this, but this needs a fallback for dvips/dvipdfmx. hyperref uses FitR -32768 but this is nowhere documented and imho FitR 0 0 width height would be cleaner.

@JosephWright what is default? Or do you mean develop?

@UlrikeFischer I meant develop, yes: having 'fun' with 2e (I did say we should do things one at a time ...)

@UlrikeFischer Ah, and the FitR support we've got so far is no good?

@JosephWright no it is ok, if one want a specific size (and it works with all engines), but I only want to extend it a bit to support this "lazy" version too, at least with pdftex and luatex.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, right: I guess we should sort some page-size data then

@JosephWright yes, but it is not trivial, as there is code everywhere messing with it, and no value is really reliable. \pdfpagewidth would work with xetex, but nobody sets it for dvips ...

@UlrikeFischer More work on the 'knocking heads together' then

@JosephWright ;-).

@JosephWright well, the use-case would be an alternative to l3sort, there is not really much I can do if I'm not allowed to provide the output as a seq or clist. The basic idea was to be somewhat close to l3sort in that the internal sorting is done using seq, and the output converts back to clist or tl if those two are necessary.

@Skillmon But there are mechanisms for those conversions already

@JosephWright yes, but the internal still needs to access a seq then.

@Skillmon I'm confused: it sounds like you want to make a sequence-like internal representation for your new module

@JosephWright actually I'm dumb. I can simply use Fit as a fallback. That would give the current page.

@UlrikeFischer :)

@JosephWright maybe it's not a good idea anyway, a seq can't be used as n-type throughout l3kernel, so the only useful implementations would be clist and tl, I guess. So I don't need to use \__seq_item:n.

And there is already an expandable \tl_sort:nN...

@UlrikeFischer, @Skillmon I plan to put out l3kernel and l3backend as soon as I can sort out the master/develop business for 2e

@JosephWright I'm just trying my extension. Perhaps it fits in?

@UlrikeFischer ????

@JosephWright the fitr addition.

@UlrikeFischer Ah, sure

@UlrikeFischer I think the 2e stuff is going to take a few days

@PabloGonzálezL why not itemize and \item?

Does anybody know why Bruno implemented mergesort for the unexpandable sorting, but quicksort for the expandable \tl_sort:nN?

@DavidCarlisle It is part of a work in progress of an enumerated environment and that macro is part of another one (\answer) and it is only shown according to a Boolean variable.

@PabloGonzálezL yes but it still looks like itemize to me

@DavidCarlisle It looks like this because it is a very minimal example, but the real context is an enumerated list with nested levels.

@DavidCarlisle I wanted to use 'coffins' to avoid using '\hpace*' to move the box

Aunque así como está funcina :)

Hello! I have a couple of subfigures in a figure environement (only included 1 subfigure environment, but there are more). If I remove the subfigure environment and only have the figure environment, what width would I need to specify to get the same size as the figures in the subfigure environment? Leaving it unchanged changes the size of the figure. Grateful for any advice!

.49*.8 \textwidth

Will try!

@schn you can't write it that way though so .392\textwidth but why did you have.49 initially?

@DavidCarlisle I don't know. Maybe to only have a limited number of figures in each row in a table of figures. Maybe the subfigure environment takes care of that and it is not needed?

@PauloCereda Very good! How on earth do you find this stuff?

What does the 0.49 do to the subfigure environment?

@AlanMunn That stuff finds @PauloCereda.

@StefanKottwitz :D

@schn you didn't show a complete example so it is quite unclear how your subfigure environment is defined.

@schn it makes it .49 as wide as \textwidth so you can get two of them on a row, but I suspect you are not putting .2\textwidth white space between them so you probably get them positioned off-centre

@AlanMunn <3

@StefanKottwitz <3

Why does expl3 use \romannumeral...0 rather than \romannumeral-`0...?

@HenriMenke It doesn't, most of the time

@JosephWright You mean it doesn't make a difference?

@HenriMenke It does make a difference, it depends what you are trying to do

@JosephWright I'm stealing \tl_case for PGF but I used \romannumeral-`0 in the front, rather than wrapping it in \romannumeral...0 (\exp:w...\exp_end: in expl3 speak).

@AlanMunn My favourite bit is holy mackerel, which sounds like the actual hole in mackerel. :)

@PauloCereda @AlanMunn The origin is Holy Mary, but that euphemism came up after @PauloCereda's interpretation.

@StefanKottwitz ooh

@PauloCereda Language history basics for linguists.

@PauloCereda Got a vimeo link?

@StefanKottwitz hm?

@PauloCereda hm :-)

@StefanKottwitz ooh

@PauloCereda that's double holy

@StefanKottwitz ooh

@PauloCereda There's also an implicit idiom there too, "shooting fish in a barrel", which they do but never mention.

@JosephWright Okay, I found the difference. Thanks for your help.

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Yeah, that's a good plan. :p

@JosephWright I'd like to speed up \tl_sort:nN (and provide \clist_sort:nN as well), should I start coding it and open a PR?

@PabloGonzálezL the code I put there should be fine, as \coffin_typeset:Nnnnn calls \mode_leave_vertical: so you'll never be in vertical mode during output (and the \hcoffin_set:Nn is fine as well).

@PauloCereda @samcarter_prepared_for_xmas ^^^

@CarLaTeX The problem is that @PauloCereda can't understand this; he's never seen snow

@yo' Ooohhh you're right!

@Skillmon That's great, I'm thinking about the code you wrote yesterday, to add the "width" it should be something like:

@PabloGonzálezL no, that wouldn't be the right thing. You still want to build a horizontal coffin. Instead of \coffin_clear:N \l_tmpb_coffin, you could use \hcoffin_set:Nn \l_tmpb_coffin { \hskip <length> }, then use \coffin_attach:NnnNnnnn to attach tmpa to tmpb and typeout coffin tmpb.

@CarLaTeX Ohh! What a fantastic invention!

@Skillmon Ha, I think I understand, that will leave the final width fixed?

@Skillmon Sure :)

@PabloGonzálezL yes, \coffin_attach:NnnNnnnn doesn't change the bounding box of \l_tmpb_coffin in my code above.

@PabloGonzálezL so if you set tmpb to something of a fixed width, it doesn't change that width, so using \hskip would set tmpb to that width (and zero height/depth)

@samcarter_prepared_for_xmas Yay

@PhelypeOleinik did you see moewe's question about the file hooks?

@AlanMunn ooh

@CarLaTeX OOOOOH

@yo' oh no <3

@PabloGonzálezL why though? And why don't you use the functions of l3box instead of l3coffins?

@cfr ^^ cwac! <3

@UlrikeFischer that was my thought: Blame @PhelypeOleinik

I got here just in time to see @DavidCarlisle blaming me. Preposterous!

@UlrikeFischer No, I've just got home. Will look in a bit

@PhelypeOleinik happy new year

@DavidCarlisle :-)

@DavidCarlisle I hope it's not a happy new bug!

@PhelypeOleinik hopefully, if you are quick you could make a record of two latex releases before the end of new year's day

@DavidCarlisle The CTAN people would love the gift

@PhelypeOleinik I think so

Why am I just now learning that \makeatletter...\makeatother aren't required in .sty files?

@JosephWright for the implementation of my sorting macro (which uses merge sort), I need \expanded, so I'd keep the current quicksort implementation as a back up. The problem is, i have no idea how "expensive" the implementation of a \clist_sort:nN would be for the case without \expanded being available.

@LaTeXereXeTaL at least in 2e they are only unnecessary, in 2.09 they would break the system completely:-)

I have no idea how I should put all this in the existing l3sort.dtx :(

@DavidCarlisle I haven't used 2.09 since the very early 1990s.

@LaTeXereXeTaL no one has (hopefully) but making each package separately normalise the catcode of @ was one of the first changes we made. in 2.09 latex did one \matkeatletter than processed all the stylefiles so if (as often happened) a style file had \makeatletter...\makeatother it worked in isolation but broke all following files as @ had the wrong code from then in

@JosephWright is there any estimated time when \expanded will be required for l3kernel?

@PhelypeOleinik I think it is this problem:

\begin{filecontents}{testA.tex}
x \egroup\bgroup y
\end{filecontents}
\begin{filecontents}{testB.tex}
x  y
\end{filecontents}

\documentclass{article}

\AddToHook{file/after}{ABC}

\begin{document}

\bgroup\input{testA}\egroup

\bgroup\input{testB}\egroup
\end{document}

if a group is closed and reopened inside the file it goes wrong.