yo

@JingleBells When I play board games with my friends it's usually either rather simple games with some aspect of creativity (e.g. Dixit about describing strange pictures in a way others can recognize easily but not too easily, or Codenames about trying to communicate as precisely as possible with a single word) or more complex (and mostly co-op) games that incorporate some RPG aspects (popular examples include Betrayal at the House on the Hill, Gloomhaven, TIME Stories)

@Charlie By the standard definition of "evolution" this can't happen, since time evolution at least for a closed system is a unitary operator on a fixed space of states, and even for an open system it's just a non-unitary operator on a fixed space. The space of states is not considered time-variant in standard approaches.

@ACuriousMind coolio

Ah I see thanks @ACuriousMind

hey qmechanic

What should I do if I can't finish a book in deadline. Seems like there is a lot to learn.

deadline for an exam?

@Charlie No. I found self studying undergraduate textbook impossible to finish this year ;_; .

There is too much to read and understand.

Are you an undergrad yourself?

which book are you reading?

@Charlie As I told in past I am just freshman in high school.

Dude there are tons of book.

There is a lot to cover, an undergraduate course doesn't always cover the entirety of a book

I am kinda losing confident and hope.

I mean if you're reading undergrad books in high school you're already ahead, why are you worried about not finishing it?

Physics is a pretty significant grind, all of the greatest physicist in history didn't understand physics at some point

@Charlie Yes. But my teacher told me that I am too distracted learning undergraduate books and not completing task in high school. I did this from middle school thus now I think I am regretting it.

Well that seems like a bad idea if it's interferring with your actual work

Learning CS,Physics and Math undergraduate books bought from Cambridge university, OUP,Springer and Dover books.

You don't have to be years ahead of where you are, I'm 23, have a degree in chemistry and am trying to become a physicist, you aren't doing yourself any favour by neglecting your current work in favour of reaching into undergraduate work

That's a lot to learn, don't get ahead of yourself

Right now I can only continue and not stop until I can start research which is long way.

Also I am learning business. It is stressful learning everything in STEM whole day and isolating myself in school.

Yeah I would recommend you don't do that, putting pressure on yourself to learn more than you're capable of is just going to affect your mental health

Don't know what to do...

@Charlie Yeah it already did. Now I am more isolated. I regret not making a single friend and just studying a lot also ignoring high school task.

Cut down on work hours if it's too much

Was thinking about solving big problem and setting non realistic goals when I was in middle school. Now it seems it takes longgggg...... way to do this stuff.

both my parents and teachers are upset.

A lot of people set unrealistic goals when they're in school

I read a lot of successful scientist story then this started in elementary school. It seems like I am in very hard situations right now.

You can still do whatever you want, you're only in high school its not like anything is decided yet

@Charlie Yes but now it is second yr in high school. In my country people are very competitive to go to university but I want to self study and my parents are gonna kick my arse for that.

You can still self study you just don't have to be putting in hours that mean you have to neglect everything else

Focus on getting into university, you'll have much more free time there

300 page of group theory itself is very basic topic covered in undergraduate but it is taking me like 40 days to cover 100 pages.

There's nothing wrong with that, but don't throw away your chance at getting into a university just because you want to read more advanced topics

Another thing is that I live in a country where I don't understand language. I studied in another country before. So I am pretty pissed. The only thing I can do is to finish undergraduate courses before I am high school graduate and start applying this things in real life and do graduate course and then research all without heading university.

@Charlie Do you have any advice? I think I am gonna have nervous breakdown.

If you want to do research you have to focus on going to university

If studying material that is years ahead of where you are is going to stop you going to university you need to stop that for now

Once you're in university you'll have more free time and you can study whatever you want

f university

(well, depends on what u wanna do)

so, f university maybe

@ACuriousMind It looks like we have the same taste in board games games haha. I haven't played Gloomhaven or TIME stories yet though.

I might not be getting any new games for a while ago since I have been nerd sniped (for lack of a better term) by Spirit Island.

@SunsetName what group theory book

@BioPhysicist Well, getting stuck on a single game is definitely better for shelf space!

Haha yeah. And saves on money

Spirit Island has so many different variations and customizations just in the base game alone.

Sounds nice, it goes on the list of games to perhaps gift to my friends (my favourite way of saving storage space ;P)

@ACuriousMind I haven't been able to part with any of my games yet. I always think "I might play this again some day" haha

Are you asking in the context of quantum mechanics?

Define "action" and "result" :P

If action A is a measurement and action B is a particular outcome then no

but if action A is a unitary operator and result B is a quantum state then yes :)

@FakeMod Unfortunately, whether such a thing as "state of the universe" exists or not is already dependent on your interpretation :P

@ACuriousMind Is this equivalent to saying the system always evolves in the same way from a given state?

@Charlie yes

ah ok

@FakeMod I mean that the very idea of "universal wavefunction" is interpretation-dependent

In Copenhagen as often represented, observers are magic and collapse wavefunctions of subsystems - there is no wavefunction of the universe because it's continuously being collapsed over and over again on much smaller scales

@FakeMod I don't think uncertainty pertains to a single measurement, it is just the root-mean-squared of the deviation from the average over a series of measurement on the same state

In Many Worlds, the state of the universe is the many-branched wavefunction with every branch a world, but all we ever perceive is a particular such branch, so the state of the universe exists but is completely inaccessible to us

In relational interpretations, wavefunctions are just subjective encodings of knowledge and the "true" nature of reality is both mysterious and irrelevant

In hidden variable theories, the universe is deterministic but it is impossible to perform an action reliably "in the same way"

@FakeMod Because we're in one branch and can't see or interact with the other branches

@FakeMod You cannot "sidestep" choosing an interpretation because the notion of what a measurement and a state "really" is is the core of what interpretations are all about

@FakeMod No, it's that your question doesn't really make sense without an interpretation.

That's looking at it the wrong way. You need to pick the ontology first before you can ask questions about it :P

It's like asking "What is 2 + 2?" and I ask "In what model of arithmetic (e.g. integers, cyclic groups, ...)?" and you say "Well, in whatever model is best."

The '2' in $\mathbb{Z}$ is not the same entity as the '2' in $\mathbb{Z}/3\mathbb{Z}$. The answers to the question formed by the same symbols as "What is 2 + 2?" are different in the two models ('2' vs. '1') but it's not really the same question to begin with

I realize I'm answering a question that you thought was about physics with a lot of philosophical waffling but there's really no escaping philosophy when you want to talk about physics from "outside" of its models. :P

no worries

I would definitely say it's 'yes' in e.g. Many Worlds. But the question doesn't really mean there what you thought it meant (that you personally will observe the same outcome for the same measurement when repeated)

that's because the weirdness of QM is mostly concentrated in the notion of 'you' as opposed to 'state of the universe' or 'measurement' there

@FakeMod No, I'm just quick in typing it into the transcript search :P

A linkception

(...are we still using that meme?)

@FakeMod Happens for any replies that have a link break (Shift+Enter) because multiline message break formatting and no one ever fixed that

no idea, I use SE on mobile extremely rarely

@FakeMod I just have a few tabs with it open whenever I'm at my PC, usually on the second monitor while I'm doing something else

...wait, didn't you just say you always use it on a mobile device?! :P

I'm being bamboozled here!

How to protect biznes idea

how to protect biznes idea so chinese ninjas don't copy it or big googles and amazons don't copy

@FakeMod no money

@FakeMod tf does that mean? anyone can open the device and see how it works

If your business case collapses just because other people can copy it easily then I'm afraid it's just not a good business case :P

@ACuriousMind whatchya mean?

@JingleBells The idea alone isn't really what's valuable. Ideas are a dime a dozen. That other people will attempt to copy it (whether you try to prevent it or not) is a fact of life. Your business case needs some element that either makes it infeasible for others to copy it (e.g. most complex commercial software isn't being copied cheaply because it's somehow impossible to copy, but because coding complex software needs time and effort)

, profits on something other than a fixed product (i.e. a service/subscription model) or binds customers by something other than its pure function (branding, interoperability with your other products, good support,...)

so I have to better and faster than everyone else who joins in?

I didn't say that

I'm a simple human, I need simple sentences

I need to make the product hard to copy and I need to give customers a reason to choose me? @ACuriousMind

It very much depends on what you're doing, really. Sure, "give customers a reason to choose you" is always true, but what that reason could be is very different depending on whether you're producing foodstuff, some technological gadget, software, clothing, or whatever

tech gadget

with simple electronics in it.

:cry every tim:

So then, if it's only simple electronics, the first question I'd try to answer is why it doesn't already exist

("I'm a genius and people are dumb" is rarely the correct answer to this)

(and if it already does exist in some form, then what idea is there to protect?)

By simple, I mean, it's made up of famous modules that do specific functions.

Modules that someone relatively into electronics can recognize

Does it definitely not already exist in some form?

I'm pretty sure yes

I haven't been following it that carefully, but you've been trying to make some kind of ar device right?

It's either a really stupid idea, or a really good one

@Charlie not gonna reveal anything sorry :D

The only concern is that unless it's exceptionally creative, why wouldn't a bigger company with more money have just made one?

@JingleBells My point is that if you can come up with the idea, then someone else can do so too. If there is nothing about the current point in time that makes it viable for the first time in history, then you need to look for the reason why it hasn't already been made.

oh acm already said that

"If the idea was good, then why a company has done it yet" is not a good way to reason

I think the patent office would disagree

lol

Only when you've figured out what that reason is, you can figure out how to make it commercially viable

It doesn't have to be a good reason, but if all you've got is "no one else got the idea" it's likely you haven't found the actual reason yet :P

@ACuriousMind It's an AR device (kinda), and I'd consider that a new field, with potential unexplored areas

Every field has "potential unexplored ideas"

fidget spinner

injection molding and bearings have existed a long time ago, but we have fidgets spinners two years back

lol f fidge spinners it's bad example

I'm a bit confused what you're actually askingme

Why the idea doesn't exist yet?

I'd say fidget spinners are actually a good example, a simple idea that could have been made by anyone in the last 100 years that made millions

it's an interesting example because the Wiki article says patents for devices like it were filed as early as 1993

lol

So why did no one do it before a few years ago? Certainly not because "no one had the idea"? Maybe it existed all along but it just went viral then? Why did it go viral? What could you do to make your fidget spinner viral?

^These are the kinds of questions I mean when I say you should try to understand why no one's made it yet

@ACuriousMind I don't know why the idea doesn't exist yet. I think it's (hopefully) a good idea and I'm sure someone else has also thought of it.

It combines technologies that became relevant 10 years ago

I'm not saying it's an easy question, but I'm saying it's probably the more important question than futilely trying to "protect" the idea

@ACuriousMind I don't understand what you're trying to say. Are you saying that I should first figure out why no one has done the idea already? How would that help me?

I like the idea and I think it's worth pursuing.

Continuing in that vein the next questions are: maybe you can tolerate competitors because your market is large enough. Then the question is - how many competitors? what market share do you need? etc.

@JingleBells What I'm trying to say is that business is about much, much more than just an idea for a product, and that focusing on protecting the idea is likely to be the wrong focus.

@ACuriousMind How do you know so much about business? I thought you favored communism?

You can only destroy what you understand :P

But more seriously, I work for a large company and if you don't put your head into the sand you can learn quite a lot by just listening to other people

@ACuriousMind Okay but I still don't understand what advice your giving me. I need to think about protecting the idea or at least making it harder to copy? I mean, I'm releasing in about 20 days

Uh.

I think at that point you're just going to have to learn from the outcome :P

@ACuriousMind oh definitely, 4 months of work ain't going to waste

Only one participant in this chatroom know exactly what the idea is as I consulted him, so I have at least one approval of "it's interesting yeah"

@FakeMod I'm not liable for catastrophic bankruptcy incurred by following my entirely unqualified advice :)

with that level of contractions you should be giving birth soon

@FakeMod I'll think about it. Maybe I'll message to specific users only (hopefully friendly minded)

@ACuriousMind lol

@ACuriousMind ur a good and forgiving person. I know I've annoyed you here and there and said a thing or two (for which I apologized) but you're still helping. U have a heart

@ACuriousMind Learn what? Whether my idea will get stolen or not? I need at least some protection

@FakeMod my condolences

@JingleBells that would be a patent but since you dismissed that at the start of the conversation I didn't bring it up again :P

@ACuriousMind give me 20k and i'll have a patent :P

I barely freelanced money for a 3d printer

@FakeMod lol no, he's an alien

his brain is too big and smart to fit in a human skull

@FakeMod Maybe you should look up what "condolence" means, that wasn't an apology from me but explaining the jab makes it even more lame :P

@ACuriousMind anything else that can put some layer of protection (other than a patent)?

@FakeMod good night pay pal

You can always make the device explode when opened but then you're going to have an entirely different kind of legal trouble

@ACuriousMind XDDDD

I'm gonna paint and epoxy the electronics (probably use nail gel thingy)

Device price is 111$ so hopefully the first 200 people won't rush to patent it

then I can use the money to patent it lol

I'm just gonna come up with ways to make copying difficult, I'll strive to be one step ahead of everyone, I'll move fast and make the device wonderful (or at least at a better level than any competitor would be able to reach)

@ACuriousMind Thanks for the help ::P

I have one small(maybe dumb) question.

So ive been reading QM by Griffith

And it formulated QM using the copenhagen interpretation

Is there any other textbook that formulates using many worlds interpretation?

@MohammadAreebSiddiqui Hi there! Most textbooks don't particularly care for interpretations and choose Copenhagen (or whatever their authors think Copenhagen is, it's not a particularly formalized interpretation) by default because the interpretation doesn't matter for the results of experiments or the formalism all that much.

So like the concept that |psi|^2 gives the probability density is based on experimentation

I see

Makes sense! Thanks!

Well, that $\lvert \psi\rvert^2$ is a probability density isn't dependent on your intepretation

But if we are considering the many worlds interpretation

does it change into probability of it being in a certain world?

and not in a certain state?

What is dependent is "what kind" of probability it is - Copenhagen is like it being the magic probability of the observer to collapse the wavefunction into a particular state, while Many Worlds interprets it being a probability for which branch/world of the multiverse you end up in

But in both cases it's the probability density for measuring position - they just disagree on what the metaphysical implications of the act of measurement are

We've just a few hours ago had another discussion about interpretation starting here

Ohhh right that makes sense. But considering that Many Worlds is true, then each particle can end up in a different world, ...and so particles interact inter-wordly?

@ACuriousMind thank you !

@MohammadAreebSiddiqui It's more that particles "split up" into different versions at each measurement. In one world the particle is measured to be at $x_1$, in the other at $x_2$, but after they've split the worlds don't really interact with each other

Oh so basically, each particle can end up in a different world(where other particles may already have ended up and they interact with each other)

you could say that (caveat: I'm not really an adherent of any interpretation, so people who actually believe in them might disagree)