English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2020-03-09

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12:00 AM

@tchrist Those colours are not right.

> I have chromesthesia as well as several other types of synesthesia, and for me it’s pretty much like whenever I hear a certain sound, I see a certain color. I don’t actually see it physically, it doesn’t mess with my vision at all, but in my mind sounds are undeniably colored.

> It’s mainly with music, for example, piano is blue/purple, guitar is orange/red, and percussion is green, but it doesn’t constantly follow these rules; it also depends on the key, volume, and tempo, as well as what instruments are being played at the same time. It’s also with non-musical sounds too though, like the horrible beeping sound of a microwave timer is red. Anyway, I hope that helps!

OP is excited:

> Thanks! Are you able to assign a color to each note?

wow

Immediate reply:

> Yes, C is blue, D is magenta, E is pink, F is orange, G is green, A is also pink, B is brownish-red.

Further inquiry:

> Cool! Can you do sharps and flats?

Why of course she can:

> When they’re sharp the color is intensified, and when they’re flat it’s sort of muted.

@Cerberus no sherlock

It is at this point here that yours truly decides to weigh in:

12:01 AM

Not enough acid.

> So am I parsing this right that 185 Hz is a really muted green that is also a very intense orange at the same time.
And 831 Hz is a really pale pink that's screeching green.
(Except when played on a piano. Then it's blue or purple. Unless you change the tempo or the volume.)
And the microwave beep does not have a frequency, just a color.

Needless to say, I'm not making myself many friends.

No man calls the cuckoo friend.

At any rate, that sure will be one hell of a paper to read. Can't wait.

Feb 14 at 23:03, by tchrist

Rare indeed is the man who having nothing to say does so.

Rarer even, the woman.

Ba-dum-ts.

12:04 AM

s/t\K/it/

> Senator Ted Cruz will self-quarantine this week after interacting with a person at the Conservative Political Action Conference who has tested positive for the coronavirus.

If only we'd known it was that easy years ago.

Hopeful you is just reading The Onion again.

New York Times

Yes. I did say The Onion.

That was followed, in the same article, by:

> The State Department warns against cruises.

I guess that's why Ted went into hiding.

Well. I rest my case.

On that note, I must resume binge-watching Mark Kermode.

Thank you for sharing the weight on my shoulders.

Don't listen to microwaves. They transmit Communist propaganda.

@Cerberus take over. You can't just come in here and fall asleep. Dogs.

12:12 AM

@Tuffy What I found so interesting was the deep underlying connections dating back to PIE between all three of Greek Atlas (Ἄτλας), both of the surprising Latin suppletive stems found in the common but highly irregular verb fero/ferre/tuli/latum used for carrying or bearing, and the (Northern-)English verb thole meaning to suffer, bear, or endure. The Tholian Web comes strangely to mind. — tchrist ♦ Feb 29 at 19:03

Yes. Hence ferro carril. Weight carrier.

For birds.

Undeniably.

Tell that to your nearest ferrier, I double dog dares ya.

Don't pay the ferryman. Don't even ask the price.

12:14 AM

Three tinker's bells?

It tolls for thee.

Well thanks. Now you've reminded me Julia Roberts exists.

And Roy Orbison, now.

Sorry, for predicting @Robusto to chime in about ancient cantors.

Nothing wrong with Roy Orbison.

He only wrote one song, and he wrote it twice.

Lonely

> I wrote the mii theme song lol. Would love feedback!

No you didn't. Kazumi Totaka did. And it's not a song.

People is the wurst.

12:17 AM

I was really unhappy when he died.

What is the name of that other song of his that is just Pretty Woman all over again, note-for-note.

I'm getting old. Can't remember things.

Oh, you got it!

I mean, I did.

I mean, that's what he sings in the song.

haha

Roy Orbison - You Got It (Official Live Video 1988)

I'm out for today. Nighty-night!

Adieu.

Adeus.

1 hour later…

1:25 AM

@tchrist Sorry, about ancient cantors I am afraid I will be unable to assist you. I don't even like modern cantors. I wish all the cantors were can'tors.

@RegDwigнt That was very close to the end for him, if not the actual end.

Makes me very sad.

In fact, look at this recording:

The Traveling Wilburys - End Of The Line (Official Video)

Three of the four are gone now.

George Harrison, Tom Petty, Roy Orbison ... I think the only man left standing is Dylan.

It truly was the end of the line.

Of course, on a long enough timeline everyone's survival rate drops to zero.

I only wish we could leave this world on a more hopeful note.

And by "look at this recording" of course I mean "listen to this recording" ...

@tchrist, @Cerberus: Adiós a los dos.

@Robusto I thought the very same thing.

1:41 AM

So what was the cantors reference all about?

@Robusto Vraiment, ce sont des chanteurs morts.

Ah. Merci.

When old age shall this generation waste,
                Thou shalt remain, in midst of other woe
Than ours, a friend to man, to whom thou say'st,
         "Beauty is truth, truth beauty,—that is all
                Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

My Grecian urn is music.

As were sung in tales of old.

Aye.

@tchrist Speaking of which, did Tolkien have any gift for music? He fills his novels with songs, but I don't like any of the renditions I've heard.

For verse, yes; for melodies, I do not know.

1:49 AM

Well, ya can't have a song without a melody.

There was precious little music in Jackson’s movies. Brian Sibley’s 1981 radio adaptation for the BBC with Ian Holm was much better at conveying that element of the novel.

And everyone knows the tune of Hey Diddle Diddle. :)

^_^

A song doesn't need a lot of words. It doesn't have to be literary. What it needs is a few well chosen words and a wonderful melody to go with it.

Carl Orff - Carmina Burana - 21. In trutina

For example.

Or this one:

Carmina Burana by Carl Orff [Best Sound, Best quality] With Download Option

I like the singers better in the Previn version. The boys' choir is excellent.

2:08 AM

Those are certainly old songs.

In some senses.

The words are.

And I guess even the music is old now.

Just not as old.

Nice how the iugo suave became a yugo dulce in the Spanish translation there in the comments.

> En la balanza incierta de mi razón los adversarios vacilan, entre el amor y el pudor, pero yo elijo lo que veo, ofrezco mi cuello al yugo: me someto a tan dulce yugo.

Smooth to sweet. Interesting.

Speaking of spring, I to my surprise have crocuses and Vinca minor (periwinkle), and dwarf iris and those miniature tête-à-tête daffodils, all nicely florissant in the warm south-facing patch.

(That was from the Totus floreo iam amore virginali totus ardeo, novus, novus amor est, quo pereo line, in case it wasn't obvious.)

Also sweet.

And, yes, I got the reference.

2:20 AM

cool

Funny how my Latin comprehension has increased with my burgeoning skill in Spanish.

Pereo gave English perish and Spanish perecer.

@Robusto It does that, yes. It is much easier to see the connections in Spanish than in French.

And ardeo yielded arder and ardiente of course.

Quemar is for more literal burning, of course.

I know this is awful of me, but I miss calling Taiwan Formosa.

Heh, I was thinking the same thing earlier.

Much prettier name.

claro

BTW, I'm about halfway through La Tabla de Flandes, and am enjoying reading my first Spanish-language novel very much. It gets easier, but I do find my brain tiring in a way it doesn't reading English. Still, whether reading or listening, I've made the leap to comprehension without translation, which is a big step.

2:28 AM

I don't know that novel. And yes, it does get you tired at first. Even after a year of complete immersion, you sometimes just want to revert to English for a brain-break.

Or try.

Spanish will intrude upon your English then. That's ok in a code-switching environment, of course, but will perplex monoglots.

I've read a hundred books in Spanish if I've read one.

I'm sure it gets easier.

Once I get this one under my belt the spell will be broken, I hope, and I can just move right along.

Yes. Your difficulties are probably more akin to mine reading a French detective fiction novel these days.

8 hours later…

10:56 AM

Which is better - "Biometric personal data" or "Personal biometric data". I like option 2 more, but cannot explain my choice.

11:21 AM

Question:

> Can I make a crescendo hairpin to be like a slope, the begin and the end point at different height?

Answer:

> I can play rondo alla turca on the piano

Gotta love the Internet.

The other answers are just as brilliant, including "You can, but I forgot how to do it lol", "ghat", and "kannst du bitte titte dein maul halten".

user image

12:03 PM

Immer gleich so freundlich.

12:46 PM

Oh for fuck's sake, Max von Sydow has died. Rest in peace.

1:44 PM

@RegDwigнt Isn't that the definition of a crescendo, beginning and ending at different heights?

How would you have to ask for that?

1:59 PM

Oh gee look, today's a spontaneous banker's holiday!

2:21 PM

How so?

2:44 PM

Viola Brand Finale - WM 2017 in Dornbirn | Kunstrad

Versuchen Sie das nicht zu Hause.

Lukas Kohl Finale - WM 2017 in Dornbirn | Kunstrad

Das auch.

My effort would be to walk on the floor, bow, and ride the bike off.

I don't see how any of this is possible.

3:01 PM

@tchrist Kindly allow me to steal that from you.

.

user image

luck

@Færd Noted.

OK, class, repeat after me: Mosquitoes are for malaria, sleeping sickness, dengue fever; sneezes are for colds, flu, and coronavirus.

1 hour later…

4:22 PM

user image

4:33 PM

@CowperKettle But how did they find that out? He's a woman's man, no time to talk.

Inglourious basterds - Oooh, thats a bingo!

5:16 PM

@Robusto You can tell by the way he uses his walk.

6:11 PM

> The assessment showed that 27% of the requirements were fully met, 41% of the requirements were partially met and 32% were neglected.

Can we put it thus? "were neglected"? Is this idiomatic?

I replaced it with simple were not met. I'm an editor.

But I'm unsure, cause I'm a non-native editor.

6:28 PM

@CowperKettle Sounds fine to me.

@CowperKettle yes. 'not met' or even 'not met' at all' just to emphasize.

Kind of a no-brainer for native speakers, but I can see how you might have doubts.

@Mitch Jinx, sort of.

Everything is a no brainier for native speakers.

We don't need brains! We're native!

2

Or rather no it's hard for native speakers too but just totally different alternatives.

6:30 PM

If I wanted to ladle on some emphasis, I'd probably say "were entirely neglected."

That means something different though. If the requirements were neglected, they were forgotten or ignored. Here, they weren't actually neglected, they weren't met.

That might mean they were neglected, but it seems more likely that it means they were not neglected as such, they were simply not met.

Man, I was at Costco today. It was packed, and every fucking cart but mine had one or two giant toilet paper bundles—like 24 rolls per bundle.

I guess now you can measure stock market performance by the toilet-paper index.

user image

6:56 PM

Haha, very nice.

@terdon I think you're right, neglected is probably not the intended meaning.

7:24 PM

Why don't they get hand bidets instead. :|

It's a serious insult in Farsi if you accuse someone of not washing their ass.

Cultures vary, I guess.

7:36 PM

(Just joking. It's not about cultures.)

7:51 PM

@Robusto it took me a second to understand. He doesn't explain it well, and it's a rare sight indeed.

Here, let me show you.

user image

Note the last bar in the organ part.

The hairpin is slanted as a whole.

Space constraints.

I don't like doing that, myself.

user image

Here's the same passage in my transcription.

2 hours later…

9:54 PM

@Robusto and they say violas aren't good for anything.

I do wonder why the zoom on the camera makes so much noise.

Just what are them Germans using to film their cycling competitions? Written off submarine periscopes from WW2?

10:18 PM

@RegDwigнt You mean because it's resting on the top of the sopranos' staff, more or less?

@RegDwigнt Well, I've always liked a viola. It is what I would play if I had to play in the string section. Boring, maybe, but you can always find work because mommy's little boys and girls all want to be * stars * of the violin!

@Færd I've heard it's an insult in Arab countries to touch someone with your left (i.e., shit-wiping) hand.

@Robusto the organ part. The hairpin between RH and LH.

@RegDwigнt Ha, I absolutely did not see that.

All the other ones are horizontal. That one is not because there is no room for it to be.

@Robusto Inorite.

Lea Andexlinger / Pia Seidel - Europameisterschaft 2017 in Prag | Kunstrad

I mean, I looked for it and didn't see it.

If you think one is amazing, how about two in perfect synchronicity.

10:31 PM

@RegDwigнt Yep, saw that one.

And they did all that after the fall at the start.

Yeah, it makes my head hurt to see that stuff. I just envision myself falling.

Well, as the top comment said,

> You got to be crazy brave to get back on again after a fall. Amazed.

But as I commented right back,

> It isn't even crazy brave after your very first fall.
Every single one of us in here has fallen off a bike once.
And these athletes fall off the bike many times a day, every day.
Indeed they specifically practice it.

The really amazing thing is how gracefully they fell.

Because practice.

10:33 PM

Yep.

Me, I'd be wobbling and flailing and screaming.

And then hitting the ground and flailing and screaming.

And then screaming as I'm put in the ambulance.

I wouldn't even be falling, because I'd never be standing up there in the first place.

Saves you on some screaming. Also, ambulance.

Well, of course. But use your imagination.

My imagination always goes right to the falling and screaming.

I imagined using my imagination once. I was appalled at what I saw and never did it again.

It was like a Dali painting or something.

@RegDwigнt A wise policy.

So is there a better German idiom for "Don't try this at home" than Versuchen Sie das nicht zu Hause? Does that idiomatic concept even exist in German?

Macht's nicht nach.

10:37 PM

Not really the same to my ear.

But that is expected.

Well, "macht das nicht zuhause nach" is the fuller version that also exists.

Versuchen works, too.

But it can sound like a calque from English.

I see.

"Don't try this at home" has been on, like, every stunt-based TV show ever shown in the US.

Which is why it's earned its trope standing.

Well it's the same on German TV, even though they never mention in their microwave manuals that you shouldn't stick your head in it.

@RegDwigнt Wait, that's what microwave ovens are for, nicht wahr?

See, that's why they have to explain it in your manuals.

10:43 PM

How else you gonna dry your hair fast?

A German manual is five pages explaining what you can do with the thing.
A manual from abroad is a hundred pages listing things you shouldn't be doing to your puppies and children.

@RegDwigнt Not to mention the extra fifty pages of legal boilerplate.

Yes, reading the first page you will find out that you should be reading it.

BTW, TIL there is such a thing as Kunstrad. But why not? It's awesome.

Really? It's quite popular here.

Certainly more popular than baseball.

10:47 PM

I don't recall it from the mid-'70s. But then, beach volleyball wasn't even a thing back in that era.

@RegDwigнt Baseball. Don't even get me started. It used to be a beautiful sport, "fathers playing catch with sons" as one writer put it. Now it's about who wears the most jewelry.

Excuse me, the most bling.

To their defense, the beaches weren't quite clean of dragon's teeth and Czech hedgehogs just yet.

To their defense.

They were in California.

Well maybe California was too busy looking at the bling to notice the beaches.

What do I know.

I left Chicago in '85 and when I came back to visit in like '92 every beach was an armada of volleyball courts.

They sprang up overnight.

That is one long night. I didn't know Chicago was in Norway.

10:51 PM

The term Chicago is an Old Norse word seen in the Heimskringla once or twice, IIRC.

Yes, when Sigismund tells to Brunhilde to move it, he says "chica, go!"

What kind of name is Sigismund anyway. "Jaws of victory"?

> Sigismund (variants: Sigmund, Siegmund) is a German proper name, meaning "protection through victory", from Old High German sigu "victory" + munt "hand, protection".

Oh it's not from Mund.

It is from hand.

@RegDwigнt Well, chica is Spanish, so I guess it translates to "You go, girl!" Just the sort of thing I myself would say to Brunhilde.

Speaking of jaws and Spanish, Latin is so intransparent sometimes.

There's a lot of talk about "ore leonis" in the Requiem. I would have never guessed WTF that means had our choirmaster not gone and explained it.

Even though when you know what it means it makes perfect sense and you ask yourself how the fuck you didn't think of that yourself.

11:09 PM

Hm. Apparently when SE said they wanted to reward people asking questions rather than answering them, they weren't joking.

I just went to stackexchange.com right now and right on the front page it has a special category "Top Network Askers".

Top sites, top current questions, and Top Network Askers.

No Top Network Answerers, mind.

"Here are the people who know the least about anything at all, worldwide."

I can't tell you. I always knew what it meant.

> libera eas de ore leonis, ne absorbeat eas tartarus, ne cadant in obscurum

all that jazz

and the tu imperative keeps the stem vowel but the other kinds swap it

as it shows there

"ne cadant"

@tchrist see, "ne absorbeat eas tartarus" I can guess the meaning of just from looking at them words.

Turtle soup, right?

Or caries.

Dental caries.

A cavity by any other name.

@tchrist no, silly you.

rolls eyes

Тартар (соус)

Тарта́р, тартарский соус (Tartare sauce) — холодный соус на основе майонеза (приготовленного из сваренного вкрутую желтка), зелёного лука и лука скорода. Во французской кухне подаётся к холодной рыбе, угрю, телячьей ноге, устрицам и картофелю фри. Существуют различные варианты этого соуса, например, в него могут добавлять другую зелень (петрушку), солёные огурцы (или маринованные корнишоны), каперсы. == Примечания == == Литература == (фр.) Sauce tartare (с. 953). Tartare (с. 1026) // Larousse gastronomique. — P.: Larousse, 1997. — 1215 с....

Fishy.

11:20 PM

When all you have is a Russian, everything looks like mayonnaise.

Ole!

ali aji ole allcomefree.

Ojos así.

Shakira - "Ojos Así" @ Acústico MTV.

Man. The fuck happened to MTV. It used to be so good.

1984 killed it

I actually remember tuning in one night late at night, right in the middle of this very song.

Those were things that used to happen. They do not happen anymore.

Hair standing on end?

11:26 PM

@RegDwigнt Sieg Mund!

Dutch still has zege.

@Cerberus SIGMOID:

Hmm are zege and zegen related?

German still has both Sieg and Mund. You silly dog.

I know.

But Mund does not mean Hand anymore.

11:28 PM

Could Mund "hand" be related to ammunition?

@tchrist quite regularly so.

Latin munio "to fend off, protect".

@Cerberus I was wondering for a bit what else could be left of it today.

Couldn't think of anything.

Latin has manus "hand".

Well yes. And Spanish has menos "less".

11:29 PM

> mănus, ūs (dat. manu for manui: "alternae manu", Prop. 1, 11, 12; 2, 1, 60), f. [root man-, ma-, to measure; Sanscr. ma, measure, moon; cf. Germ. Mond, moon, and O. H. Germ. mund, hand; Angl.-Sax. mund], a hand.

Voilà.

The fucking moon, are you shitting me.

I actually didn't know measure and manus were related.

manolo

No wonder they suspect nazi bases on the moon.

Siegesmond.

horse hands

11:30 PM

So probably also mensis and perhaps modus.

Mensis = Monat.

@tchrist that's nice but what the fuck is a blahnik.

A manolo is a little hand?

Cf. dimension.

And mansion.

It's what you call your buddy Manuel instead of Manny.

And menstruation.

Ding!

That is no doubt from mensis.

11:31 PM

What you mean no doubt. That's like the only thing that I know.

Etymology is fun.

It's still called the monthlies in Russian. Месячные.

Ah.

Makes sense.

Well kind of. If your month is a lunar month.

Anyway. I take from that all that Siegesmund has attained victory over menstruation.

Cf. metre.

11:33 PM

Please. No French in this chat.

manustupration

But English is basically French.

@tchrist What is that? Manual incest?

@Cerberus I know. But I told tchrist as much and he was so surprised he laughed out loud IRL.

Cerb, knowing French: But English is basically French.
Reg, knowing German: But English is basically German.

Stuprum is something like incest or at least something very scandalous related to sex and rape.

11:35 PM

Mar 1 at 18:06, by tchrist

@RegDwigнt Your “English is just German with no grammar and French vocabulary” cracked me up!

@RegDwigнt How do you know? Could you hear him?

@RegDwigнt Could be lying.

@tchrist you will find that my description was more accurate than that.

@Cerberus No sin but Onan's.

Also, I know some Japanese, Finnish, and Chuvash.

But if there's one thing I can tell you for a fact, English is no Chuvash with Japanese vocabulary.

> Etymology: Alteration of mastupration n. after classical Latin manus hand (see manus n.1), founded on the proposed etymology < manū + stuprāre stuprate v. (see masturbate v.). Compare French manustupration (1771); R. Dunglison (1848 Med. Lex. 525/2) and J. Copland (1858 Dict. Pract. Med. III. 485/1) record also post-classical Latin manustupratio.

11:37 PM

@Robusto Maybe, in some places. It shouldn't be that serious. Offering your left hand for a handshake could make you look sinister tho in some places.

The causality works the other way around btw. The left hand is not inferior because it wipes shit off one's ass; it does so because it's the inferior hand.

Oh is that so.

@tchrist Only Christians could call that a stuprum.

@RegDwigнt longimanous

I do know that we make sneezing noises because that's a learned social habit.

But surely wiping your ass you would do with the hand most convenient for you.

mandylion

11:39 PM

@RegDwigнt Well you're not supposed to do it with the more adroit one, if you want to follow sharia law.

Maybe it has roots in Christianity and whatnot.

@Færd Même si on est gaucher.

Sorry, your adroit took me over the Channel, and I got stuck. :)

Oh yes, I was only statistically correct.

> < Byzantine Greek μανδύλιον, μανδίλιον, μαντίλιον cloth, hand-towel, handkerchief, tablecloth (also μανδήλη , 5th cent.), especially in phrase τὸ ἅγιον μανδήλιον ‘the holy towel’ < classical Latin mantēlium hand-towel, napkin, variant (probably as inferred singular after mantēlia , plural) of mantēle (also mantēlum ), perhaps cognate with Umbrian mantrahklu , and probably originally a compound of the Italic bases of manus hand (see manus n.1) + tergere to wipe (see terse adj.).

mandylion

@tchrist Your left hand is the inferior one, nevertheless.

That's how religion works. The one in question, at least.

For example, in the day of judgement, if your report card is put in your left hand, you're going to hell, no matter whether you're a southpaw or a northpaw.

(report card sounds funny there)

@Færd people wiped asses before sharia law existed. (And in quite a few countries it still does not exist.)

11:49 PM

@Færd May the Fortieth.

@RegDwigнt And they will afterwards. The point was... not important.

Wait, they just renamed Italy to Hubei?

@tchrist Isn't that around June the tenth?

@Færd It is. Blame snow days.

It's when you the kiddos come home report cards in hand.

That or Lent is exceedingly late this year.

They went and painted all of Italy red! Il Doge would be proud.

@tchrist Ah.

11:55 PM

@Færd well I'm just genuinely interested. Is all. Like with the sneezing.

Seems wrong to me, but what do I know. June and July and August should be sacrosanct against school days.

user image

Isn't this nice? Inlaid wood.

@tchrist Which Doge?

If you mean il Duce, I doubt whether he would have approved of the colour of communism!

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