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V2Blast
V2Blast
4:53 AM
@kviiri It's a very pretty song :)
@Gwideon I got to see it for free because I was a seasonal employee at the LEGO Store when it came out. It was so good I watched it again and made my family watch it with me :)
@Gwideon That reminds me, I need to watch HTTYD 3. ...Also, have any of you watched the HTTYD TV/Netflix series?
@GcL Chirrut Îmwe! Loved Donnie Yen's character. And I loved his contrast with Baze Malbus :) ...Now I want to rewatch Rogue One.
@Gwideon Indeed:
@Gwideon Jake Lloyd = Young Anakin? Yeah... Never understood the people that are jerks to actors (child actors especially) for just playing a role.
 
trogdor
trogdor
Yeah I'm a little late on this one but I love Star Wars, but I Meu on the fandom
 
V2Blast
V2Blast
(sorry for all the pings, just catching up on transcript :P )
 
trogdor
trogdor
The fandom of Star Wars can shut up about literally everything
XD
 
 
4 hours later…
Derpy
Derpy
9:01 AM
@GcL "We never knew Nadia existed while making Atlantis. All the similarities are purely coincidental"
 
 
2 hours later…
kviiri
kviiri
11:13 AM
@Gwideon Friendly request: could you not assume that breaks in the conversation are signals that you did something wrong? It feels a bit awkward to us who never intended to convey anything to that effect, and I think you too would feel better after weaning yourself off unnecessary self-deprecation. Polite discussion is always welcome here, don't let anyone --- yourself included --- imply otherwise.
This is a friendly request, no big man with a stick. I just think it'd make you and me and probably many others feel a bit easier.
 
BESW
BESW
Yeah. When I'm chatting here, or in Discord, I'm usually also taking care of my dad, or waiting for a client to respond, or something like that. I'll suddenly vanish and then just as suddenly return because of hugspace demands completely unrelated to what we're talking about.
I generally assume everybody else I'm talking with is in the same sort of situation where the pacing of their responses is unrelated to their interest in the conversations.
Possibly related is this very useful Twitter thread about the difference between "neutral to good" vs "neutral to bad" relationships.
3
I'm the "Oh we haven't seen each other for 5 years? Let's go play an RPG I think you'll like" friend, and I always thought that was sort of the default. That thread helped me understand why some people get weird about long lulls in friendships. Nobody has to prove to me that they still love me so I needed to have it explained to me in small words that some people need me to do that for them.
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
12:12 PM
@BESW Not sure how related, but definitely a very useful. While I don't buy into the strict dichotomy, in retrospect I've certainly been in relations where the best outcome is neutral, and have seen people who seem to have a neutral-to-bad scale towards strangers (basically, see those with positive utility as neutral, and those with negative or neutral one seen as bad). Having it pointed out and put into worse helps being on alert for such attitudes and know when to avoid them. Thanks.
 
user15026
@BESW This helped me a lot especially with online spaces, where I don't always know why a human I like much has disappeared or stopped talking or whatever.
 
Carcer
Carcer
usually when I'm chatting I am meant to be working so
 
Carcer
Carcer
12:58 PM
@V2Blast I have watched some of it
I don't recall it being particularly special
 
Derpy
Derpy
1:34 PM
 
Carcer
Carcer
1:50 PM
 
kviiri
kviiri
I'm listening to a recording of Philip Glass's chamber opera "The Photographer" about the life of Eadward Muybridge. This is the kind of stuff why my SO keeps asking me why does all the music I listen to sound like "the same all the time" :P
(Muybridge wasn't a familiar name to before I ran into the opera but he was the photographing pioneer who, among his other achievements, took that famous "video" of a galloping horse that was used to prove that a horse has, in full gallop, all its feet up in the air)
Not sure if that experiment counts as "proper" video since it was shot as one frame per camera... but the end result was nonetheless that he had enough frames of the horse to make good observations about how it works.
I am definitely in the "sharing music" phase again!
 
trogdor
trogdor
2:31 PM
@Derpy huh
 
Derpy
Derpy
@trogdor gameplay, not art style obviously.
oh, btw.....
fixed the design, same story as before.
a shame. Now, it can't even aim for the "so bad it's good" effect.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
3:08 PM
It actually kinda looks interesting to me. probably will be medicore but jim carrey will be interesting.
 
Derpy
Derpy
3:20 PM
@Gwideon oh, I am sure it could be interesting... it is just that it seems that most of the movie will be set in the human world for no reason other than "it will cost less that a full CGI movie"
and - at least IMHO - Sonic part interactions with humans characters.... please no
No need for another Elise or Chris
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
true
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Derpy "Run, Barry Sonic, run!"
 
Derpy
Derpy
but, obviously, not saying that anyone shouldn't like it if they wish. It is just that to me it seems wasted potential.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
the flash references in the trailer were a little unnecessary in my opinion
 
Derpy
Derpy
But keep in mind: I would also have been perfectly fine with a fully animated movie instead of this so I probably shouldn't be taken as a reference.
@Gwideon yep, that is something many other users already mentioned on the first trailer. Based on this new trailer it seems that they have removed some of the worse offenders like the "Sonic get shoot with tranquilizer dart" scene (that was almost unwatchable, imho) but kept the Flash references for some reason
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
3:32 PM
that first trailer is really a complete disaster
 
Derpy
Derpy
@Gwideon the trailer had three problems:
a) design - clearly some executive there must have had a very bad idea.
tried to put the shame on the animation company but guess what... that company also worked on most of the 3d Sonic games. They know how Sonic is supposed to look like so it is clear that someone forced them to do that bad design.
And... I think they got their personal revenge.
the animation studio is Marza Animation Planet - they worked on multiple Sonic games... with pretty decent quality.
also, it is indicative that they have worked on Sonic Forces, a game that directly references the Sanic meme.
The old uncanny Sonic design from the first trailer... looks a lot like Sanic.
To the point it seems almost made on purpose by an angry animation studio.
anyway, back to the list.
b) the movie will be probably set mostly in human world and human environments (city, houses and so on). From the games, we saw Sonic doesn't really work that well with those.
c) Jim Carry in the trailer is still doing Jim Carry. Not Eggman.
@Gwideon the new trailer looks like they may have fixed the first problem...
I am still uncertain about the other two.
we will see in a couple months, I guess.
 
NautArch
NautArch
4:28 PM
Given hollywood's track record on turning video games into movies, I'm not too excited.
 
Derpy
Derpy
@NautArch I kinda was, until I saw the redesign.
Now the meme potential is gone.
 
Xirema
Xirema
The Latte scene made me laugh. I'm very skeptical anything else in the movie will, but someone, somewhere, in the studio working on that movie is doing their job well.
 
NautArch
NautArch
Not a lot of movies i've liked on this list
 
Xirema
Xirema
@Derpy Cosigned with this. I was hoping for a legendarily bad movie until they announced they would redesign Sonic.
 
Carcer
Carcer
heck, the Doom movie was 14 years ago?
I feel so old
 
Xirema
Xirema
4:34 PM
If the character design is good, then the only way the movie is going to be worth anything is if the rest of the movie is actually good, which between A) the bad track record of Video Game Movie Adapations, B) Sonic the Hedgehog's specific track record on the quality of their actual games, and C) the fact that the trailer is still falling short of that promise, I don't have high hopes for that.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Carcer let's not talk about that :P
 
Derpy
Derpy
@Xirema exactly.
^ I mean... it was SANIC THE MOVIE!
Just think of the arbriged version!
The remade dubs
all lost now.
;_;
 
Carcer
Carcer
@NautArch the thing that amazes me most about this list was that people kept letting Uwe Boll adapt their franchises
you'd have thought that after the second time they'd have learned
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Carcer A lot of directors area also like professional sports coaches. People keep paying them money even when their end-product is awful.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
@Carcer I didn't think Uwe Boll was still doing stuff
 
NautArch
NautArch
4:44 PM
@Gwideon doesn't look like he's produced anything since 2016
 
Derpy
Derpy
@Xirema oh, but there is a decent Sonic movie.
The '96 OVA one.
Sonic the Hedgehog (OVA)
Sonic the Hedgehog (ソニック★ザ★ヘッジホッグ, Sonikku za Hejjihoggu) is a two-episode 1996 Japanese anime OVA series based on the video game franchise by Sega. Produced by Studio Pierrot and directed by Kazutaka Ikegami, the OVAs were released from January 26, to March 22, 1996. The anime features Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Dr. Eggman (Dr. Robotnik in the English release), Metal Sonic and a few supporting characters created exclusively for the OVA. == Setting == Unlike other Sonic the Hedgehog media, the setting of the series is the world of Planet Freedom, which is split into two distinct realms: the Land of...
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Gwideon he retired from the film industry in 2016 and owns restaurants now
apparently they're actually pretty good
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
good riddance
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
5:15 PM
does anyone have interest in con langs
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
5:37 PM
@Gwideon I tend to sigh at them with appreciation, but from a distance. I.e. I never tried learning one. But Ithkuil/Ilaksh looks awesome.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
have you ever tried making one
cause um I made one. Um can I post it in chat
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
Way back when I was a kid and didn't appreciate the amount of work involved in covering all the minimum bases required for a language, nor the way in which they can differ from languages I could sort of speak and sort of write at the time.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
it's probably not that good and it has a very small lexicon right now but um yeah
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
Nowadays I just make up the general 'sound-feel' of some languages for the campaign I'm GMing (including a few disorganised facts about the grammar/syntax/etc.), but not anything more advanced.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
sorry. I kinda started it as an independent project but um it kinda became a piece of my dnd world
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
5:44 PM
Campaigns are probably exactly the right place where such conlangs fit great.
Just enough to produce a fake sentence when the party doesn't know the language, or to come up with local mountain/city/street/etc. names.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
I kinda thought of it as a language for the dragonborn. It's kinda a variant of draconic and um yeah
that makes sense to me as I figure a group of people who are kinda born from dragons but split off would come up with their own language using draconic as a base
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
It's interesting to think about how culture would affect language structure, even if that may not be a thing in real life.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
anyways i'll shut up about it and let it speak for itself
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
Are they geographically grouped together?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
For example, Chinese doesn't have verb tenses but I'm not sure if there's a cultural influence there.
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
5:48 PM
All (none) of the Chinese?
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
yes they live in the mountains of a region called Alda
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
Mandarin for sure (I can't speak for other dialects), but written Chinese (which is used by all dialects) doesn't have verb tense.
So memorizing your verb conjugations is easy because you don't have anything to memorize.
 
Carcer
Carcer
"lol what's a verb tense"
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
I haven't come up with a writing system for it yet. might make a phonetic writing system similar to japanese
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Carcer Say/said/says, for example.
Changing how a verb is written/pronounced based on when the action takes place, who performs the action, etc.
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
5:51 PM
@Yuuki Do you think the fact that English lacks half the verb tenses (e.g. has neither the perfect nor continuous future tense, relying on adding another word to the verb) is culturally influenced?
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@vicky_molokh I don't study linguistics nor do I study anthropology so I can't really speak authoritatively here.
It's definitely a common theme in literature, film, etc. but I'm personally not sure about it.
 
NautArch
NautArch
Did somebody call for an anthropologist?
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Yuuki I know what a verb tense is, I was referencing a well-travelled tumblr post
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
In any case, Chinese doesn't have any verb conjugation. Whenever time is important to a sentence, it's just mentioned in the sentence.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
anyways um one interesting thing is that in my setting dragon born society is matriarchal. to indicate that i had the male pronoun be a modified version of the female pronoun which is the opposite of what it is in english. "kivva" in this case is the female pronoun and "Kivvasha" is the male pronoun. The male pronoun literally means less female.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
5:58 PM
@Gwideon ooo
 
Carcer
Carcer
that doesn't sound very progressive of them
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
Well, dragons have always been a conservative bunch, what with hoarding gold and hiding princesses from adventurous knights.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Carcer Gwideon said matriarchal, not that it as a progressive matriarchal society :P
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
@Gwideon From you calling it the female/male pronoun and not the feminine/masculine pronoun I'm guessing that it's one of those languages that is biased towards the neuter by lumping all sexless things under neuter, similar to how Modern English is/does?
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
true but i'm coming at this as if it was a real culture with prejuidices and biases of their own. Dragonborn society is very clan focused and are distrusting of outsiders, Though not enough to close them selves off from trade. traders and others from their society that have to interact with outsiders alot are considered out casts. Also yes @vicky_molokh that may be a bit of bleed over from English
 
Carcer
Carcer
6:05 PM
@Gwideon it was meant in jest, not criticism, don't worry
I don't except fantasy societies to be paragons of modern-day virtue
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
yeah.
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
I don't expect societies to even have a worldwide-unified idea of what modern-day virtue even is.
Also yeah, societies typically have flaws, and making a flawless society tends to come off as an author tract, so it's good that the culture has its own biases.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@Carcer To be fair, it's not like modern-day societies are paragons of modern-day virtues either.
Plus, YMMV on what modern-day virtues are.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
though it is a fair bit more progressive than 20th century society was. males are allowed to work any job that they would like besides leadership positions. while they are considered less capable than females within that society they are still considered to be an important part of the society
 
Carcer
Carcer
I expect a length monologue from Dragon John Galt
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
6:10 PM
sorry. I'm kinda working out stuff right now as I haven't fully fleshed out details on dragon born society.
 
Carcer
Carcer
it's cool
 
kviiri
kviiri
I've snatched Swedish, French and occasionally Swahili for my RPG fantasy languages. No one's any wiser (even with Swedish being an official language here...)
 
Carcer
Carcer
in the setting that exists in my head I have dragonborn/kobolds rolled into one species that specifically exists as a created species to act as servants to dragons. Dragons don't share territory with other dragons but they all have clans of dragonkin to serve their whims.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@kviiri Are you on BESW's Bad Plan discord?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch Aye
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
6:14 PM
anyways everyone is expected to defend their clan in times of crisis. also being in a leadership position doesn't exempt you from that responsibility. you are expected to fight alongside your clan no matter what and if you don't you're considered a coward and will probably be cast out.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@kviiri what's your name on there...or can you message me? I wanted to run something by you.
 
Carcer
Carcer
@Gwideon sounds like a very martial society
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch kviiri, same as here. Justa tick :)
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
yeah. I had some norse and anglo saxon influences when I was coming up with stuff
 
Carcer
Carcer
do they party hard?
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
6:17 PM
my world, or at least the continent of Aldia has a lot of norse influence with some celtic and old west thrown in depending on where you are. @Carcer Yes they party very hard
 
Carcer
Carcer
whoops, I got distracted
time to go home
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
@Carcer okay um bye
 
kviiri
kviiri
Sad fact of the day: my loudly fighting neighbors are fighting again and the sound comes to my apartment through the air vents so I have no fricken clue which neighbors they are.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
anyways. I'm not really sure quite what the accent would be like. When i do run dragonborn npcs I usually use Matt Colville's dragonborn voice as a basis.
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Gwideon You mean what sorts of sound-difference the race would struggle with when conversing in common?
 
NautArch
NautArch
6:31 PM
@kviiri Just make loud wookie sounds back through the vents.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
@DavidCoffron yeah. I don't know enough about linguistics to really be able to come up with a natural accent for dragonborns
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch That's an excellent idea!
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Gwideon With only 14 phonemes and 4 vowells, there is a lot that our English would add to what they're used to
(for reference English has 44 phonemes and 5 pure vowels, as well as many dipthongs and digraphs)
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
@NautArch Like these?
 
David Coffron
David Coffron
@Gwideon I wonder if there is a filterable list of languages based on what phonemes they have that you could base it on. (although keep in mind that a language's vowells also play a big role in accents)
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
6:36 PM
@DavidCoffron that is true. also their speech tends to segment syllables, which usually are only one sound. Vetana is not a smooth flowing language.
also um I'm thinking a phonetic writing system might be the best choice for this language as well
sorry I'm kinda trying to describe vocal qualities as best as I can
 
NautArch
NautArch
@vicky_molokh Well, that was disturbing.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
anyways i'll shut up
hmm this is interesting. a few polynesian languages have the same number of sounds
 
kviiri
kviiri
6:57 PM
Working on conlangs is fun, but I'd advise not to stress too much about it if it's for an RPG. If you feel like making one, put in all the work you want, but your players should be happy with about as much effort as Hollywood puts in :)
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
oh no I'm not really stressed about it I'm just doing this because It's interesting and I find it fun to work out these little details
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yeah, no worries
I just don't want anyone to make the mistake I've made several times in assuming my players want tons and tons of details, and stressing myself out in making them --- but as long as you really enjoy what you're doing, it's time well spent.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@kviiri Yup! As long as you're getting enjoyment, it's mostly a win. If the table is, it's a bigger win.
But if the table is chomping at the bit to move on, then it may be time to rethink what you're doing. Heck, I just kinda hastened the end of my group because we weren't all on the same page and didn't seem like anyone wanted to change pages.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
Oh no I mostly use it as flavor. I'll occasionally have dragonborn npcs throw in a word or two in their normal speech.
that's usually what happens
 
NautArch
NautArch
That's awesome. I just usually go for bad accents.
THat have no rhyme or reason to them.
and then I forget which voices I had for which NPCs.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
7:09 PM
but it's not just for my campaigns it's also a language I'm wanting to use in my writings
anyways. um what do you think would be a good language to base a version of infernal off of. I'd probably go for a fairly guttural and harsh sound but who knows it might be interesting to have infernal be based on a romance language like French or Spanish.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@Gwideon Yeah, I went straight to guttural languages. German, maybe hebrew. Something the throaty CH.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Or Danish, for those unpronounceable demon/devil names.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
It would be an interesting juxtaposition if Infernal was really beautiful language. sorry I'm thinking of irony here
 
kviiri
kviiri
Infernal was... devils and Abyssal demons, right?
I guess it makes thematic sense for devils to have a figurative silver tongue.
 
NautArch
NautArch
@kviiri or dutch.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
7:15 PM
devils mainly
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch Right, they do sound quite similar now that you mention it!
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
hebrew would be a good inspiration. it has the sound I'm going for
anyways I'll probably come up with something
 
kviiri
kviiri
Why can't my dishes do themselves
 
NautArch
NautArch
@kviiri I weirdly love doing dishes and cleaning the kitchen.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
hmmmm
I still don't quite get valency but I hope I did it right
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
7:34 PM
Physics?
 
kviiri
kviiri
@NautArch For some reason the latter feels good to me too, more so than the former. Both feel a lot nicer when they're specifically for my dearest SO <3
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@NautArch The problem with doing dishes is when peanut butter is involved.
Ugh, just thinking about washing stuff with peanut butter under hot water is making me phantom gag.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
no language valency
 
kviiri
kviiri
Random anecdote stuff regarding linguistics: my mother tongue is Finnish, but I was exposed to English (and to a lesser extent, Swedish and French) from a young age, praise be to TV. One of my best childhood friends, by contrast, was from a family where they didn't let their kids watch TV almost at all. I genuinely felt sorry for him because I felt he never could quite catch up...
There's three particularly hard things: pronunciation (which tbh is hard for everyone, this is English we're talking about!), the distinction between definite and indefinite, and using prepositions and postpositions correctly.
Y'see Finnish doesn't have the distinction between definite and indefinite, or actually articles like such at all. And I can guarantee, the more times the teacher tries to explain when is something "a thing" instead of "the thing", the more confusing it got for the poor fellow.
Prepositions and postpositions at least map somewhat to similar concepts in our language. But anyway, I digress.
I finally got a taste on how he must've seen English when I entered French class, without having a prior knowledge of the language beyond a few stock phrases I knew from my father, and having seen a few French animations so I had a basic idea on how French is supposed to sound like.
 
user15026
@NautArch Dishes are the wooooorst chore.
 
kviiri
kviiri
7:48 PM
French has another of those features absent from our language: grammatical gender. Okay, it's more like an additional degree of complexity over vocabulary but still -- young me was utterly baffled why on earth would anyone need to know that, say, the pencil is masculine and the eraser is feminine.
Helped me sympathize a lot with my poor friend who had been denied the opportunity to absorb his foundational understanding of English easily.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
why is are gendered nouns a thing. Just wondering
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
blame... latin?
 
user15026
@Gwideon Apparently someone on French.SE had this question! french.stackexchange.com/questions/8859/…
 
kviiri
kviiri
Hmm. Language has a lot of seemingly unnecessary complexity supposedly because through some evolutionary process, it has helped induce redundancy that makes inferring the intent easier.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
Male-female isn't the only way nouns (and adjectives) are gendered though.
 
kviiri
kviiri
7:52 PM
@Yuuki Yeah, Swahili has about a dozen of semantic classes plus plural classes for most of them, for instance.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
makes sense.
@kviiri I studied japanese for three years and god it has so many tenses exactly for this reason. it helps infer specific intent.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Gwideon Finnish doesn't have gendered pronouns either, and it's a constant joy to those translating detective shows and novels into Finnish. Think about how clunky the classic "How do you know the killer was a he?" slip-up gets when the one making the slip-up has to be explicit about having seen a man/boy/woman/lady etc...
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
@kviiri On the plus side, translating gender ambiguity must be easier.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@Yuuki Aye.
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
There's a common issue in Japanese-English translations, IIRC, because Japanese has gendered self-identifying pronouns and a common way to depict gender ambiguity is for a character presenting as female, for example, to use the masculine "I".
 
kviiri
kviiri
7:57 PM
Convention is that the translator just bluntly puts in some incriminating word in the dialogue. "I saw someone exit the cabin on the cliff around that time. I couldn't see the woman clearly but they had a big rifle with them." It's clunky, but gets the job done.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
anyways If i'm gonna make a language that is shared between both devils and demons would it be interesting to have a distinction within the language about certain things being seen as lawful and certain things being seen as chaotic
 
kviiri
kviiri
I would personally prefer to translate it as-is, without adding artificial gender emphasis in the translation proper, but instead maybe have a parenthetical note about it.
Except in cases where it's possible to convey more naturally, perhaps... hmm, it's a complex issue. Despite y'know being about crime dramas :D
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
language is quite complex in general
anyways my ideas are dumb and I was just thinking about how I could kinda adapt gendering into a society where gender doesn't really matter only the amount of souls you're able to get
 
user15026
I'm not sure why you always default to your ideas being terrible. You are very hard on yourself :(
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
I don't know
 
Yuuki
Yuuki
8:04 PM
Well, as mentioned before, gender isn't the only way language is... gendered.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
true
 
user15026
There's lots of ways to denote things beyond gender. Jut because you use suffixes/prefixes on words to denote...whatever it is, it doesn't mean it's gendered, gendered is just "this is masculine this is feminine". you can have bits of words mean all sorts of things.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Yeah, diminutive and augmentative for instance.
 
user15026
nods I thought about the Dutch -je diminutive because I ran into that a lot with my Dutch family :)
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
i'm just trying to get a general idea of what I want to include in this
 
user15026
8:14 PM
Its your language, for the world you're creating and working in - you know it best. :) If you think it makes sense for those things to be important enough consistently enough for the speakers, then go for it :)
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
okay
 
kviiri
kviiri
8:27 PM
@BESW We watched the first two episodes of She-Ra today. We had a fun moment when castle Grayskull was name-dropped --- my SO hadn't realized this was set in the MotU verse until then :P
"wait wha-" BY THE POWER OF GRAYSKULL
 
Carcer
Carcer
Masters of the Universe Verse
 
kviiri
kviiri
It's so uni you don't even need a verse.
That's how uni it gets.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
hahahaha. kinda want to watch she-ra but um yeah
don't have a ton of time.
 
kviiri
kviiri
He-Man was never massively popular here. I don't think I've ever seen a MotU toy in the flesh (...plastic?) and while one of those shows aired during my lifetime, it wasn't very popular and I was in the awkward age range where one couldn't wholesomely enjoy childish stuff.
So I'd reckon the average person around here wouldn't connect She-Ra to He-Man...
 
Carcer
Carcer
it's not something I was ever into as a child either but I was aware that He-Man and She-Ra were related properties
 
BESW
BESW
8:39 PM
@kviiri The original 1985 Princess Adora is Prince Adam's twin sister. Adam hasn't made an appearance yet in the reboot, bu there's potentially room for him later one.
 
kviiri
kviiri
@BESW I reckon Adora initially serving the villains is also new to this series?
 
BESW
BESW
No, actually! They fiddled with the details, but in the original series Adora was also a Force Captain for Hordak, and Shadow Weaver was her mentor, until Adam gave her the Sword of Protection and she defected to the Rebellion.
 
kviiri
kviiri
Oh, that's neat! I felt it was something that would be comparatively very out of place in the 1980's versus today.
 
BESW
BESW
It may help to know that J. Michael Straczynski (Babylon 5, Sense8) co-wrote the series bible.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
I got my infernal Sound inventory made
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
9:08 PM
"A crow and a raven were sitting on a branch, when she suddenly saw a newborn who was about to wake up. So she warned him about it, and then he and she flew away from it to avoid the noise."
Instant clarity without needing to repeat raven, crow and child lots of times.
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
@vicky_molokh well i wasn't talking about pronouns. I was talking about the system of assigning a noun a gender that french or spanish use
 
V2Blast
V2Blast
@Carcer Depends which parts you watched. The first two seasons that aired on Cartoon Network were very much standard kids' TV show stuff: episodic, fairly lighthearted, none of the emotional themes of the movies really. The Netflix seasons are a bit more mature, with consistent season-long arcs, solid character development, and generally much better storytelling.
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
Really, the first thing you should do when asking questions about gender is to stop assuming that 'gender' means 'social gender'. It doesn't much of the time, and the ambiguity only exists because English euphemists and sociologists decided to borrow rifle in a dark alley through the pockets of linguistics for a word that means a very different thing. In many other languages there is no such ambiguity (eg рід to denote gender and borrowed 'гендер' to denote social gender in Ukrainian).
@Gwideon Well, Englishmen have nouns and verbs and adjectives end in different letters, but those seem to be random. Other languages have those endings work with at least some degree of predictability.
 
BESW
BESW
@Gwideon What's an infernal sound inventory?
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
a phonetic sound inventory for my version of the infernal language from dnd
 
vicky_molokh
vicky_molokh
9:16 PM
@Gwideon So e.g. you have two species, the raven (ворон) and the crow (ворона). Since the former ends in a consonant and the latter ends in -a, you can predict with 90%+ reliability that you use the former with masculine verbs and the latter with feminine verbs.
You also get the utility of being able to use verbs and adjectives without needing to repeat the noun because there's a chance that multiple nouns in a topic will fall into different genders.
 
BESW
BESW
@Gwideon Oh, cool! Is this for a video, or for your table?
 
trogdor
trogdor
@Derpy yeah
I figured
 
Gwideon
Gwideon
@BESW Writing and table
@vicky_molokh thanks for the clarification
 
V2Blast
V2Blast
9:36 PM
@Gwideon Very cool :)
 
BESW
BESW
BTW, @kviiri, Netflix has a show "The Toys That Made Us," and episode 3 of season 1 is about He-Man with a bit about She-Ra at the end. It's interesting, lots of interviews with the original people involved in the franchises. But the show is completely uncritical, it just presents the interviews without much thought about or research into the claims the people are making.
 
trogdor
trogdor
10:18 PM
yeah
I wish they had bothered to put any critical thought into it
instead really all they did was give space to biased opinions
I mean, they talked mostly to the people who made the toys, and the people who were/are obsessed with buying them
 
 
1 hour later…
Shalvenay
Shalvenay
11:32 PM
@vicky_molokh eheheh. very much this....isn't it High Valyrian that has 4 linguistic genders, none of which have anything to do with the social construct we call gender?
 

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