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5:50 AM
Swahili has like a dozen, plus plural forms, with the exact number varying by particular dialect.
There's an interesting twist to grammatical gender the way I know it, though: there is usually no single correct genus for a given word. In eg. French, you can switch masculine to feminine to denote biological sex or social gender in animals and people, but that's about it; in Swahili, one can ship nouns between genders while deriving predictable (within the usual human language standards) meanings.
mtoto means "child". Switching the gender gives us eg. kitoto (dimimutive, so "little child" or "infant"), utoto (abstraction, so "childhood") etc.
Finnish has some suffixes one can slap on nouns for roughly the same effect but nearly as formal.
English, too, to some extent: suffixes -dom, -hood, -city etc can describe various forms of abstraction
 
 
1 hour later…
7:19 AM
@kviiri Some words are 'shippable' in some languages, some aren't. E.g. war is firmly feminine in East Slavics, and sun is firmly neuter, even when used to refer to non-neuters (and thus correspondingly neuters the linked verbs and adjectives of the sentence).
 
@vicky_molokh If you have a word that can be switched between genders, does its meaning stay predictable when you change it to another genus?
I can conceptualize situations where there exists a mechanism for changing the same root noun to different genders but the new meanings are not really predictable even in the majority of cases.
 
If I understand your question correctly, yeah I guess. Some examples would be:
- vorona (ворона), is feminine and means 'a crow'; you can amputate the -a and it becomes voron (ворон), and means 'a raven';
- волосина is feminine and means 'a single hair'; you can neuter (and gather) it into волосся, and now it means 'hair' (i.e. some number of single hairs, easily up to the whole head or more);
- but you also have etymologically unrelated pairs, like how рушник (rushnyk) is masculine and means towel and рушниця (rushnytsya) is feminine and means shotgun (or at least longarm).
 
I think the middle case is the closest one to what I intended. Does it work like that in general, that taking the neuter form forms collective nouns?
 
(I do emphasise that those two are different words that just happen to have structure that makes them look like genderal variations of the same one, but aren't.)
@kviiri In some cases. E.g. trousers are just plural, but a single trouser is feminine. A single leaf is masculine but plural leaves are a neuter gatheral word.
And water is just singular and waters are just plural, even though surely everyone knows that water is uncountable (which would logically warrant making it a gathering noun, but it isn't).
 
Okay, so nouns can translate between genders but it often affects semantics in ways that require knowing in advance to understand the meaning?
 
7:36 AM
@kviiri Sometimes. Most of the time there's nothing complicated about it though. E.g. with feminitives of professions you can usually just expect the changed word to behave like a normal feminine word, accept normal feminine verbs, adjectives and numerals, and carry the same fundamental meaning.
 
I reckon "traps" still exist in languages with more widely-applying rules, due to the language evolving if nothing else.
@vicky_molokh In those cases, it is like the kind I described for French, that it corresponds with the biological sex / social gender?
 
@kviiri That's a thing you can do if you want (e.g. you can turn няня, a normally feminine word into the rare нянь [masculine] if you really want to emphasise that your nanny is socially and/or biologically like this), but it's not strictly enforced.
 
@vicky_molokh Yeah, sounds similar to French. But I reckon there's no/few cases where masculine(profession) and feminine(profession) are completely different things?
I swear I have a real life actual inspiration for this question but can't remember what it was...
 
@kviiri There's probably a handful of ones that are radically different, but I have a hard time recalling examples. Bride/groom are different but those are non-professional 'occupations'.
I'm off for almost an hour (I think), so you've got time to try recalling if you want to. I'll be back and try to answer any subsequent questions.
 
7:52 AM
I actually came up with one in Finnish... we have a few now-seldom-used suffixes for indicating femininity in professions and similar roles. One of them is -ssa which I think comes originally from Latin and is directly related to the English -ess, eg. in "waitress", "princess", "actress". It's a fairly uncommon gender suffix in Finnish, being used only in loanwords, with other cases using the more indigenous "-tar" or "-tär"
So we have the word "diakonissa", meaning "deaconess". Except here it means, through some peculiarity, a deacon (church post devoted to work of charity, no or minor liturgical role around here) with added training in nursing.
Healthcare-nursing, not breastfeeding.
It's a bit borderline because since -ssa is used only in loanwords (and not too many of them) it could be construed as not being a general rule. Regardless, I'd count it because I recall myself being surprised by this very fact --- you can be a female deacon but not a "diakonissa", and a male "diakonissa".
 
8:19 AM
In other news, on November 15 Darude's Sandstorm turns 20 years. A local radio station has announced they will celebrate by playing only Sandstorm through the entire day.
 
8:35 AM
@kviiri That's probably a bit more interesting than any examples I could think of.
 
 
5 hours later…
1:57 PM
@trogdor seems the ponies are going Teen Titans GO.
 
2:31 PM
@Derpy hmmmmm
 
@Rubiksmoose check the MLP facebook page, been like this for three days now.
 
@Derpy huh, well that seems sure to be divisive eh?
 
there is also a picture of Twilight and one that looks like Dash.
@Rubiksmoose ?
 
@Derpy I was assuming they might be changing the animation style?
 
@Rubiksmoose k, for a second I thought you meant that the mlp facebook page is divisive.
 
2:45 PM
@Derpy oh no lol
How do you feel about the possible change?
I haven't watched MLP in quite a while but I enjoyed the animation style.
 
@Rubiksmoose Well... depends on what direction they are going to explore.
season 9 was the last one.
 
That's a good point, I'm not sure how I'd feel about them adopting the kind of manic TTG tone.
 
@Derpy Translate this to someone who doesn't know what Teen Titans Go is :)
 
(if that's what you meant)
 
I've seen enough MLP to know what it's about tho.
 
2:47 PM
@kviiri let me find a picture.....
 
@kviiri TTG is a short-format parody show starring chibi forms of the comic Teen Titans and very whacky and slapstick stories.
 
^ on the right, Teen Titans from the original cartoon (yep, Japan was involved, if you wonder about the anime style). On the left, Teen Titans GO
the picture is from the crossover movie
As @Rubiksmoose already said, Teen Titans GO is known for its nonsense, wacky story and gratuitous bashing at the original Teen Titans fans.
so, usually, the fans of the original cartoon don't really like the GO version.
 
@Derpy What brilliant marketing
 
(The fact that the Teen Titans cartoon was also cancelled under suspect circumstances - probably tied to Terra - doesn't help)
 
@Derpy Yeah Go is definitely divisive among the fanbase. Personally, I think it's fine. Too many people expected it to be similar to OG TT and that is part of the problem. Another part is, IMO, an overreaction to the shift in tone from the fans.
 
2:56 PM
@Rubiksmoose It... has some very questionable episodes to be fair, but I mostly agree.
 
@Derpy For sure. I think it also has some good ones. But I haven't watched all of it and recognise I'm also not the target audience.
Another factor to it's divisiveness is how often it is (was?) aired, which apparently was constantly
 
@Rubiksmoose To be clear, I am not talking about the constant toilet humor, I am talking about specific instances when the episodes are built to be bashing against the fans of the old show.
That said, since you were asking about the ponies.
Later seasons already had a "direction" problem.
It is not that they were "bad", mind you, it is just that it is clear that after the original staff left the new writers didn't really know what to do with the main plot.
So we still got good single episodes but the main arc story started to feel erratic
The season 9 ending is a brilliant example.
 
@Derpy though I question the choice to do them I kind of thought those episodes were actually pretty funny, even as a fan of the old ones.
@Derpy so I guess the question in everyone's mind is what direction they're taking the ponies in right?
 
@Rubiksmoose if I had to guess based on the style....
would match the idea that they are trying to drop the main plot and just do random, unrelated stories that can live on their own.
considering that season 9 closes the g4 story arc, that would fit.
But... we will see.
 
3:17 PM
hello
 
@Rubiksmoose also, anything is better than their (poor) attempts at 3d
 
@Derpy oh boy, I think that must have been after I stopped. That sounds...not great.
 
@Rubiksmoose more recent.
 
I think I stopped after season 3-4.
 
See their official Youtube channel. There are some short clip with 3d animation attempts.
 
3:21 PM
@Derpy I'll have to take a look.
 
@Rubiksmoose not that good, I saw fan made 3d models that looked better than those.
 
@Gwideon Did you want to open its own chat room?
 
@Derpy They made 9 seasons of FIM? That's quite baffling, it seems as if it started only yesterday.
 
@Gwideon want me to move the recent messages over?
 
3:30 PM
@NautArch yes please
 
@kviiri yep, 9 seasons, one movie and multiple special episodes. And that doesn't count EG.
Anyway, the main show ended with season 9 just recently.
If you ask me... the ending wasn't that great
kinda forced
 
again, as I said, probably they didn't know what to do with the characters.
 
@Derpy To be fair, I'm pretty sure that fans of the original cartoon wouldn't like GO even if the show didn't bash them.
There were a lot of feelings when GO was announced, IIRC, before any bashing happened.
 
@Yuuki Do you know how the Teen Titan cartoon ended?
 
3:43 PM
@Derpy The original? Was that the one where it turns out Terra's alive and a bunch of other stuff that I mostly forgot?
 
@Yuuki yep... kinda.
but the exact wording of that episode made a lot of people mad.
and there are still (quite realistic if you ask me) theories about why the show was shut off going rampant around.
 
But... that was the original cartoon, not GO?
 
yes, but my point was that a lot of the anger against GO was caused by the anger about the sudden shut down of the previous cartoon
if the original cartoon had a proper closure, I think less fans would have hated GO from the start (or to be more precise, from before that)
 
Yeah but that also illustrates my point, which is that a lot of the (initial) anger against GO doesn't really have anything to do with GO itself.
 
oh, yep, I agree with that.
My point is that if you have fans that are already angry because you killed the old show, constant jokes about that aren't going to help.
 
3:49 PM
Some days, I wonder if I actually want to know who Red-X is.
 
Especially when some of the jokes can be interpreted as calling them idiots.
 
(tbf we kinda are idiots)
 
that said, I sometime wonder if the theories about Terra being the real reason behind the shut down are true.
 
Huh? Like the executives wanted to bring her back and the showrunners felt her story was finished or something?
 
@Yuuki nope, fan suggest it was quite the opposite.
the theory is that the executive forced the writers hand to kill her off since someone was unhappy with the writting.
it is most evident that the cartoon Terra is quite the opposite than the original DC comics Terra.
The theory claims that there was some interference because someone didn't like the change.
 
3:55 PM
IIRC, original DC comics Terra had a squicky-as-hell romantic relationship with Slade.
 
was also a psychopathic murder much older than the cartoon version.
in the cartoon, she becomes a victim, actually helps the good guys in the end and so on.
Basically, from what I hear (I am not a Teen Titan expert) they show changed an extabilished DC villain in a hero. Some claim DC was not happy.
 
well dc also turned parallax into a dust cloud with a giant fivehead so
 
Considering that Disney did exactly that to Donald and his second "girlfriend" (this will be a story for another time).... can see that happening.
(Yep, Disney actually stepped in to VETO on more stories been made about a certain character, not making that up.)
anyway, it is just a theory, but an intriguing one if you ask me.
> Terra: "Things change, Beast Boy. The girl you want me to be is just a memory."
BB: "Come with me."
Terra: "You go. You're the Teen Titan. That's who you are. That's not me. I'm not a hero. I'm not out to save the world. I'm just a girl with a geometry test next period and I haven't studied."
 
also dc recently rebooted terra as a good guy, so shrugs
 
^ BTW, this is the last line in the show if you wonder.
@Yuuki yep, recently.
 
4:03 PM
The original terra is kinda... Cringe worthy. It makes it hard to read the judas contract
 
have to go for a while.
See you later
 
4:22 PM
@Derpy oh good lord what?
 
@Yuuki Yeah... in no way was the original Terra ever going to be appropriate for a kids show. Or, honestly, any show IMO. They made an animated movie with a comic-accurate Terra and it was very cringy (thought the movie was pretty good overall).
 
4:43 PM
boop
 
5:10 PM
@Derpy Yeah, I'm aware it ended, it's it clocking nine seasons that feels like a lot :p
I watched the series without particular zeal into... season 6 or 7? I think by that time 8 was out too. The slowly expanding main cast didn't appeal much to me
 
5:43 PM
I think I got some episodes into whichever season it was after twilight got her wings and lost interest
 
My SO was more into ponies than I was
I would've rather sped into Ducktales
But she's very into She-Ra so far.
 
My daughter likes she-ra (she's 6). Neither her nor my son got into ponies.
 
Ash
5:58 PM
I liked MLP for the first couple seasons and then my attention wandered. I am bad in general with cartoons, I like the idea of them but I have trouble holding my focus to watch them
 
I'm currently watching disenchanted while i fold laundry and that's about as good as it is :P
 
6:17 PM
@NautArch disenchanted didn't do anything for me.
 
@Rubiksmoose Yeah, at this point it's just kind of mindless watching while I fold. I prefer watching cooking shows on netflix. Safer for when the kids come in, too.
 
Hey I know there's a chat room for this now but I want to show off what I have so far on my infernal master doc
sorry
 
@Ash For me, a part of the appeal has been letting my mind wander a bit on tangents while watching them :)
 
@Rubiksmoose Are you saying you were disenchanted with the premise?
 
Ash
@kviiri I just realize that I don't actually pay enough attention to the story and all of a sudden the episode is over and I am like "I could not tell you what happened"
@Yuuki sigh
Low hanging fruit, that one
 
6:28 PM
@Yuuki lol
 
@Ash When you're suffering from scurvy, you're not going to ignore a pineapple to look for oranges.
 
Ash
I suppose you might be right
 
The new Rick and Morty season began airing this week, so I guess that's something to enjoy now.
Hardly a kids show, but...
 
@Xirema Definitely NOT a kid's show. I just had to delete it from my DVR after watching just in case the kids find it.
but also definitely really good. And that season premier was top notch.
 
@NautArch Yesss. XD
 
7:26 PM
@Yuuki boooooooooooooooo
 
7:46 PM
I've never really gotten into rick and morty
it's not really my kind of humor
 
Same.
I don't really do well with edgy humor, I also couldn't get into South Park.
 
I like some south park, but i never got into enough to watch regularly by any means.
 
lol
@V2Blast you say that but you link it XD
 
yeah i really couldn't get into south park.
 
oh wait,.... you weren't responding to the sandstorm thing
nevermind
I just woke up, don't judge me
XD
 
7:49 PM
I mean, South Park is really good and poking fun at current events and society.
 
I think my favorite humor tends to be absurdist.
 
@Gwideon Same. I liked the first couple, but it really isn't great for me. Too nihilistic and edgy.
 
I prefer dry, witty, or absurdist humor. Like if two people are bickering with each other but they're doing it in a really clever humorous way that always makes me laugh.
but seriously has anyone seen james veitch. He's really frickin funny
 
I think I remember him from something about going down a rabbit hole with a scammer.
 
7:58 PM
yeah he has a youtube channel and he tends to take scammers down rabbit holes in hilarious fashion.
anyway this is something that's been bugging me. Why can't people with different religious standings just get along.
 
"with different religious standings" is a bit redundant here
 
@Yuuki what do you mean?
 
@Gwideon Because Us vs Them is fairly deeply ingrained in animals.
 
@Gwideon Because the answer to that question is fairly analogous to the general question of "why can't people just get along".
 
I was more thinking in the context of religious. I'm an atheist and um some people irl have found that grounds to dismiss and attack me which just makes me sad as I don't really care about what people believe as long as it doesn't harm me.
sorry I'm annoyed with some people.
anyways I'll shut up
back to comedians. One of my personal favorite's is george carlin
 
8:14 PM
John Mulaney's pretty good, though I don't watch a lot of stand-up comedy.
 
yeah. I'm not super into stand up comedy but I have a few favorites.
 
Ash
@Gwideon Sometimes, we can?
(I find that often when people say "religious people" they refer to a subset of Christianity, which doesn't speak to those of us who...super are not that)
 
Well, they definitely don't mean Buddhists who, judging by the amount of meditations, are more of a religious sittings.
 
Ash
8:31 PM
facepalm
 
8:45 PM
I wasn't trying to generalize anyone.
@Ash sorry I was speaking of a small group people who are... let's just say stubborn and rather close minded.
and there just seems to be a lot of conflict and believe me atheists are just as guilty of being horrible to anyone who doesn't accept their ideas as we;;
anyways
 
Ash
Just be aware of what you might unintentionally be saying, and when you might be speaking of a wider group of people than you intend. :)
 
9:09 PM
Religion can also be a very touchy subject. Tread lightly and Be Nice.
 
I try to. don't always succeed
 
GcL
9:23 PM
@Yuuki Isn't there a Depeche Mode song that goes on about that exact thing?
 
9:40 PM
@Yuuki terrible :D
 

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