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7:02 AM
@UlrikeFischer @MarcelKrüger thoughts on github.com/bidi-tex/iftex/issues/1 welcome
 
7:24 AM
@DavidCarlisle well I think that the next luaotfload version will have harf mode included and it will be active if the library is detected. So the test here will be simply "luatex with harf or luatex without harf". We shouldn't imho add tests for luatex variants like harftex, luajit etc that is only opening a can of worms.
 
7:50 AM
@UlrikeFischer Sure: @DavidCarlisle was getting at the \ifpdftex, etc., tests: putting them together
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer If you get a moment, could you check the latest update for expl3 space handling? I'd like to get it out to CTAN ...
 
@JosephWright yes, this one are clear. But Norbert asked rather specifically also about harftex/harf mode.
 
@UlrikeFischer and also detecting whether it is harftex or luahbtex which I think we should also not do as we don't want to encourage people writing harftex-specific package code
@JosephWright OK I'll update and try to look...
 
@DavidCarlisle yes, exactly, that is what I meant.
 
@JosephWright on master, yes?
 
@DavidCarlisle Please
 
8:58 AM
@DavidCarlisle quack
 
 
1 hour later…
10:18 AM
hmmmmmmmmm
 
@JosephWright
\documentclass{article}

\usepackage{expl3}
\begin{document}

\ExplSyntaxOn

\typeout{[\file_full_name:n{a~b}]}
\typeout{[\file_full_name:n{zzz-noext}]}
\typeout{[\file_full_name:n{space~here/abc}]}

\ExplSyntaxOff

\end{document}
abc.tex is in the subdirectory:
$ ls space\ here/
abc.tex
@JosephWright so I expected space here/abc.tex I thought but:
[a b.tex]
[zzz-noext]
[abc.tex]
 
11:12 AM
@PauloCereda dinner
 
@DavidCarlisle oh no
 
11:33 AM
@PauloCereda Law of supply and demand: French inhabitants = 67 milions, Dutch inhabitants = 17 milions
 
@CarLaTeX hmmm
@CarLaTeX I could buy Dutch pillows and sell them to the French. :)
 
@PauloCereda Maybe the dimensions are not the same...
 
11:58 AM
@DavidCarlisle Oh drat
 
12:10 PM
@JosephWright I extended @DavidCarlisle's example with Umlauts:
\typeout{[\file_full_name:n{space~here/grüße}]}
\typeout{[\file_full_name:n{grüße2}]}
lualatex reports nothing:
[a b.tex]
[zzz-noext]
[abc]
[]
[]
pdflatex and xelatex curiously adds the extension to the second:
[a b.tex]
[zzz-noext]
[abc]
[grüße]
[grüße2.tex]
 
@UlrikeFischer Hmm, I'll work on it some more then ... I must have messed up the directory part
@UlrikeFischer I'll check in case I have the logic backwards
 
@JosephWright why doesn't luatex find the files?
 
12:24 PM
@UlrikeFischer Er, good question, I'll work on it ...
 
@JosephWright well at the result are better than before: then luatex did find only the zzz-noext file ;-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I put something on GitHub Sponsors .. got accepted at my $3/month level :)
 
@JosephWright ooh
 
12:48 PM
@JosephWright maybe I should fill in the forms:-) Have you now promised to do something for that? Or was it just a good will gesture tier?
 
@DavidCarlisle Just said 'buy me a coffee'
 
@JosephWright uh-oh
 
1:03 PM
@JosephWright then github buy you another one, I think
@CarLaTeX would sponsor me to buy a Hawaiian pizza
 
1:17 PM
@DavidCarlisle If you sponsor me to go to Hawaii to taste the original one
 
@CarLaTeX original one came from canada and the pineapples came from a tin
 
@DavidCarlisle If you sponsor me to go to Canada it's good the same
 
@CarLaTeX sign up to github sponsors and offer "trip to Canada" as a sponsorship level:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle I'll do as soon as I can
 
@PauloCereda -- oooohhh! Thank you: Here's one of my favorites: peabody.jhu.edu/explore-peabody/libraries-archives . When I was in high school, I had my own carrel there while I was writing a term paper. Very special!
 
1:27 PM
@barbarabeeton Wow! It's amazing!
 
@barbarabeeton Oooh wonderful!
 
1:44 PM
Yup
 
yay
Do you guys know a series named Poirot?
 
2:00 PM
@PauloCereda agatha christie
 
@DavidCarlisle I know. :) I mean, a TV series. :)
 
@PauloCereda it's quite a famous tv series, although I haven't seen any of it. Starred the English brother of a TV newsreader speaking in English in a pseudo-Belgian accent as far as I can gather.
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh sounds interesting
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
@DavidCarlisle who's gonna play @JosephWright in the telly? The L3 series will soon happen. :)
 
yo'
2:17 PM
btw, I wonder how many people have the privilege of being recognizable on a 24x24px icon:
user image
3
 
@yo' yay
 
2:33 PM
@PauloCereda @yay yo'
 
@DavidCarlisle yay
@AlanMunn seeing John Lithgow playing the role of Winston Churchill is so... unusual!
 
3:32 PM
@DavidCarlisle Fixed (@UlrikeFischer)
@UlrikeFischer That is solved
@UlrikeFischer Still working on this one
 
@JosephWright yep that test file works for me in pdf|xe|up|lua latex
 
21
Q: What is the correct way to do delimiters?

Evan JenkinsI've always used \left and \right with my delimiters, but Martin Heller's answer to another question indicates that this method gives incorrect spacing. The correction appears to be prepending \mathopen{}. Is this the canonical "correct" method? And what exactly does the \mathopen command do? A q...

This question's accepted answer is just a link to another question, which is not cool per current rules
What does one do in such a case?
 
@Gallifreyan either nothing, or vote to close the new one as a duplicate of the first) (having an answer on it as well doesn't hurt much)
 
@UlrikeFischer Seems to be a Lua kpse library issue
\directlua{
  print(kpse.find_file("grüße2","tex",true))
}
\bye
@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle ^^^
@MarcelKrüger Before I take to the LuaTeX list, any ideas on the above?
I wonder about locales ...
 
4:07 PM
@JosephWright minute please
 
$ luatex ef2
This is LuaTeX, Version 1.10.0 (TeX Live 2019)
 restricted system commands enabled.
(./ef2.tex./grüße2.tex
)
warning  (pdf backend): no pages of output.
Transcript written on ef2.log.
@JosephWright ^
 
@DavidCarlisle same here
 
@DavidCarlisle Er, what's in ef2?
 
this:
\directlua{
  print(kpse.find_file("grüße2","tex",true))
}
\bye
and grüße2.tex is in same directory
 
Same here.
 
4:10 PM
OK, it's a file system thing: doesn't work on Windows, does on WSL
@UlrikeFischer Do you feel that makes it a bug?? ^^^
 
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer OK, so the TeX code is now right, we are dealign with spaces correctly
 
@JosephWright graphical representation ^^
 
@JosephWright is that like ooalign ?
 
@JosephWright will look in a few minutes, trying to get my boarding pass ...
 
4:13 PM
Actually, it really is a bug, as it's different from \input ...
Oh, it's not different!!!!
 
@JosephWright what does kpsewhich do (ie calling kpsea library from something other than Lua)
 
oh no
 
@JosephWright what happened about that weird use utf8 filenames flag that was in w32te that came up last year or so?
 
@DavidCarlisle No: I've got that set right now (was in an update)
@DavidCarlisle Finds the file, reports it 'here' (with mangled UTF-8 due to the Command Prompt)
@DavidCarlisle Point is I get 'file not found' from \input{...} as well, so it's at least consistent
@DavidCarlisle MiKTeX is OK here ... (@UlrikeFischer)
 
@JosephWright yes same for me. texlive fails.
 
4:22 PM
@UlrikeFischer TL bug? Do you find it also fails with a simple \input?
 
@JosephWright yes, curious, \input fails in both systems. Why didn't anybody complain about it earlier?
@JosephWright wait, let me check something.
@JosephWright I can't \input it with pdflatex either. But I'm rather certain that this worked earlier. What's going on? Ah, that was only a typo ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer Good question: no TeX Live LuaTeX users on Windows using accented file names, I guess
 
@JosephWright redoing the test a bit more slowly: miktex works, texlive not.
 
@UlrikeFischer Right, so TL bug then: not us so I can update CTAN, but we should report it
 
5:09 PM
@JosephWright should I or do you want to do it?
 
@JosephWright Did you test if the mangled UTF-8 can be "unmangled" correctly?
 
C:\Users\joseph\Desktop\test>kpsewhich grüße2.tex
./gr³▀e2.tex

C:\Users\joseph\Desktop\test>lualatex \input ./gr³▀e2.tex
This is LuaTeX, Version 1.10.0 (TeX Live 2019/W32TeX)
 restricted system commands enabled.
LaTeX2e <2019-10-01> patch level 1

luaotfload | main : initialization completed in 0.510 seconds
! String contains an invalid utf-8 sequence.
<*> \input ./gr
            e2.tex
?
@MarcelKrüger ^^^
@UlrikeFischer, @DavidCarlisle Building for CTAN
Back to siunitx .. no team there ... but perhaps a coffee ...
 
@JosephWright that's a bit different, what happens if you do \input inside a file?
 
This is LuaTeX, Version 1.10.0 (TeX Live 2019/W32TeX)
 restricted system commands enabled.
(./test.tex
LaTeX2e <2019-10-01> patch level 1

luaotfload | main : initialization completed in 0.583 seconds

! LaTeX Error: File `grüße2.tex' not found.

Type X to quit or <RETURN> to proceed,
or enter new name. (Default extension: tex)

Enter file name:
@DavidCarlisle ^^^ from \input{grüße2} in my demo file
 
5:24 PM
@JosephWright well at least the error message looks better, even if it's wrong
 
@DavidCarlisle ooh
 
5:40 PM
@DavidCarlisle Right, let's see if my sponsorship rolls in: github.com/sponsors/josephwright
 
@JosephWright looks more as if you let build ...
 
@UlrikeFischer Well yes, the deployment business makes this a lot easier: I'm definitely using for my own code too
Speaking of which, back on siunitx, hoping for alpha-2 in a week or so
@UlrikeFischer Sent
@UlrikeFischer We really should ask them about a URL option for the upload ...
 
@JosephWright after all we are their most active customer ;-)
 
@UlrikeFischer By 'we' you mean ... me I think
@UlrikeFischer Been that way since the tex.ac.uk days: I kept Robin very busy
@UlrikeFischer Wait until I finish siunitx v3.0.0 ...
@UlrikeFischer It's true, of course: a lot of code is coalescing in our repo or with us as individuals (including the FAQ)
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Talking of coalescing, the iftex plan: we just hijacking one of the existing packages?
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer Or Secret Plan ...
 
@JosephWright ooh
@JosephWright duck sponsorship
3
 
5:53 PM
@JosephWright well we will need user level commands, so it can't be only secret plan. Hijacking sounds sensible, but which one? ifpdf is probably used the most, but the name is not the best.
 
@UlrikeFischer Well ... could just \input expl3-generic ...
@UlrikeFischer One is called iftex .. although I thought a new ifengine under the team repo might be best
 
@JosephWright I didn't meant that we can't use the code, only that one needs also commands like "\ifpdf" or "\ifxetex".
 
Actually, could go in required/tools, so everyone has it
@UlrikeFischer Sure, I only meant doing the actual tests using the expl3 code, but likely it's not worth it
 
@JosephWright or ifsystem or l3system (would fit better to the sys module name).
 
@UlrikeFischer Ah, yes
 
5:57 PM
@JosephWright why not? It would save time if one can only use the existing tests.
 
@UlrikeFischer Based on xfp, might be xsystem, but per the new ideas there, yes, l3system would do it: could DocStrip straight from l3sys.dtx if we want
@UlrikeFischer Sure: we are basically going to say that expl3 is effectively part of required/tools anyway: it's going to be out-and-out required
 
@JosephWright sounds sensible.
 
@UlrikeFischer Let's let @DavidCarlisle make suggestions on the team list ..
 
@EmilioPisanty What's up?
 
6:00 PM
why is it every time there's a (seemingly?) unsolvable problem with TeX it's always the fonts kicking up trouble?
! fontspec error: "font-not-found"
!
! The font "academicons" cannot be found.
c'mon, TeX
 
@EmilioPisanty Because system fonts are hard
 
it's right there
@JosephWright yeah, I know
 
@EmilioPisanty Try with the extension?
 
I can't even figure out whether this machine's been able to compile this document correctly or not
@JosephWright it's getting called from the academicons package
specifically, my (updated) awesome-cv.cls calls \RequirePackage{academicons}
then that calls
\usepackage{fontspec}

\newfontfamily{\AI}{academicons}
and that's where it goes belly up
 
@EmilioPisanty Ah: it's WTM with the extension added
@EmilioPisanty It will be a platform thing: they likely didn't test on Windows and Linux (and Mac) with XeTeX and LuaTeX (this is more-or-less my world)
 
6:03 PM
hmmmmm
but changing the call in the .sty file does seem to fix the problem?
 
@EmilioPisanty Please update your academicons package, the current version avoids such problems.
 
@MarcelKrüger oh, so it does
many thanks
 
@PauloCereda I do wonder about a 'buy me TAOCP' tier
 
@JosephWright ooh
 
6:18 PM
@JosephWright yes will sketch something out in a bit
 
I see in the xparse documentation that SplitList is marked as experimental. It appears that \SplitArgument is not experimental. Is that correct?
 
@PeterGrill We should probably alter that: at this stage, I think nothing will ever be removed from xparse
 
@UlrikeFischer I thought iftex then hijack all the rest to use that (except that iftex defines some non-if commands \RequirePDFTeX and friends so perhaps not (although perhaps the commands are OK....) (@JosephWright)
 
@JosephWright Awesome. Thanks.
 
@JosephWright what is TAOCP?
 
6:21 PM
@JosephWright one might almost say it's broadly stable....
@UlrikeFischer the art of computer programming, by some one, I forget who
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah ;-)
 
The Art of Computer Programming (TAOCP) is a comprehensive monograph written by computer scientist Donald Knuth that covers many kinds of programming algorithms and their analysis. Knuth began the project, originally conceived as a single book with twelve chapters, in 1962. The first three volumes of what was then expected to be a seven-volume set were published in 1968, 1969, and 1973. The first published installment of Volume 4 appeared in paperback as Fascicle 2 in 2005. The hardback Volume 4A, combining Volume 4, Fascicles 0–4, was published in 2011. Volume 4, Fascicle 6 ("Satisfiability")...
@PauloCereda New tier added
 
6:36 PM
@JosephWright Nice!
 
@JosephWright by -> buy.
 
@UlrikeFischer Fixed, thanks
@PauloCereda A duck level is hard to judge ...
 
@JosephWright -- What's this about? May I take a look?
 
Help a duck. :)
 
7:02 PM
@JosephWright -- You can get some no-cost pre-pub versions of newer parts. See www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/taocp.html Look near the end of Volume 4 and at Volume 5.
 
@barbarabeeton you can't get rich asking for enough to buy no-cost publications
2
@JosephWright have you ever looked at how big ifptex is? :-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Ah ...
 
So, what's generally recommended as a good site for collaborative LaTeX document writing?
 
@FaheemMitha there's no viable option other tha Overleaf, is there? :)
 
@PauloCereda Is Overleaf collaborative? I've no idea.
 
7:17 PM
@FaheemMitha if you pay, IIRC.
 
@PauloCereda Oh, pay. Ugh.
 
A free account might grant you one sharing partner.
@FaheemMitha I know some people in my former lab use it. But they have a subscription. Not sure.
 
@JosephWright 1200 lines :(
$ ls
ifetex.sty    ifptex.sty  ifuptex.sty  ifxetex.sty
ifluatex.sty  iftex.sty   ifvtex.sty   ifxptex.sty


$ cat *| wc -l
1204
 
@DavidCarlisle, @UlrikeFischer, @PhelypeOleinik, @EmilioPisanty, @MarcelKrüger Ok, so which of us takes tex.stackexchange.com/questions/513534/…?
 
@FaheemMitha depends what you mean for collaborative, do you mean multiple authors real-time editing online? Or simply check a document into git (or mercurial if you must) and edit and check in (which is what I would prefer)
 
jsb
7:21 PM
I would like to change the font colors on the marburg theme sidebar, but I cannot find the source code for the theme to identify the approapriate parameters. Related question:
 
@JosephWright status by design?
 
@PauloCereda Yes
 
jsb
0
Q: How change the color of shading side bar in Marburg theme?

JimI´d like to know how change the color of shading side bar in Marburg theme. Concretely, the top and the bottom color. Maybe rewriting the file? Thanks!

 
@JosephWright "think yourself lucky it's not 7bit cm" an answer?
 
@FaheemMitha As well as Overleaf, there are several other similar ideas
 
7:22 PM
@DavidCarlisle something like Google Docs. But with LaTeX added. So the former, I suppose.
 
@FaheemMitha overleaf (and similar) (but I would prefer github+emacs)
 
The later certainly has advantages. You don't have to sell me on the advantages of version control.
Less synchronous, though.
@DavidCarlisle What's similar to Overleaf?
 
@FaheemMitha when writing a document, that's a good thing:-)
 
@DavidCarlisle Perhaps.
 
@FaheemMitha there was sharelatex but that's now same as overleaf, one called papeira or some such and another was mentioned recently I forget, not used any of them (I have a free account on overleaf, but not really used it)
@JosephWright I'll take a go
 
7:26 PM
@DavidCarlisle Tar
 
@JosephWright Untar
 
@DavidCarlisle ok
 
@JosephWright I wrote something
@PauloCereda bzip7
 
it's tex, almost every reason is historical:-) — David Carlisle yesterday
 
@PhelypeOleinik wise bloke
 
7:34 PM
@DavidCarlisle 7z
 
@PhelypeOleinik I was leaving that question for @JosephWright to answer
 
@PhelypeOleinik How could we do other than love the man?
 
@DavidCarlisle Quite. And very humble too ;-)
 
@PhelypeOleinik you noticed that?
 
@DavidCarlisle A bit of a guess ;-)
 
8:12 PM
@PauloCereda ^^^ Watching Monty Python
 
@UlrikeFischer A DUCK
 
@JosephWright and a lizard and a cat ;-)
 
@yo' In English it's 2 m's. Dilemma.
 
yo'
@FaheemMitha ah thanks! I'll let them know
 
@UlrikeFischer oooh
@yo' LOL awesome duck!
 
jsb
9:18 PM
@samcarter Regarding my earlier beamer question I figured out from different posts that \setbeamercolor{title in sidebar} and other variations of it are available so it solved my problem. However I am still not sure what is a good source of documentation to answer this type of questions.
 
9:33 PM
@jsb you can't ping people who haven't been here lately.
 
jsb
Thanks for letting me know. That person contacted me regarding something I posted on the chat, and since I could not see a way to message them directly I responded here.
 
@jsb I sent her a message.
 

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