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00:30
@ExtrovertedMainMan not sure who pointed them to IPS, but thanks for dealing with this quickly @EmC. I think how you handled it was perfect
@scohe001 thanks. I am very much not in the mood to entertain trolling
01:00
@EmC yea especially after that last comment from them, I just don't see how that could facilitate a productive answer/conversation.
Hi, I just poked my head in to chat
Hope you don't mind having me
hello!
I through an RA flag at em too. It was getting a bit gross
much appreciated, flags definitely made the decision easier
so besides that! how's everyone's evening (/ morning / afternoon)? :)
Been worse.
Feeling awkward. I haven't been in this chat in a while.
And it's quiet
01:09
yeah, I'm definitely "feeling" quiet because of the storm going on here. Waiting and watching to see what happens.
Yeah. I kinda came here to get away from the storm
I sorta threw myself into it and now I want out.
Hi all - I completely understand the rationale for deletion of my previous post. I don't blame you in fact. Please advise how to fit the spirit of my post into the CoC/topic rules - I think the intent is clear, relevant, and specific, but am happy to edit in hopes to receive thoughtful answers
@Ash I know! That's why I chose it :D
And yes, things are about as well as they can be under the circumstances.
ah, didn't realize I could edit deleted posts
@bruglesco A bunch of the regulars are Europeans, so it tends to be quieter during the night on this side of the world. Not everyone is up at 4:15AM like I am.
01:13
curious, what't the point of editing a deleted post? effectively none?
@user58 yeah this is my main active time. I'm used to the quiet
If you can edit it into shape, you can get it undeleted.
yep, that.
is there any form of "how do I refer to a person if I don't feel like using their preferred pronouns" that could possibly fit topic?
Probably not.
01:14
And it is borderline offensive to ask
well, yes, that's the point. I couldn't agree more, but I feel it deserves thoughtful answers that reject the premise outright
And I feel like that's my que to go
that doesn't mean we need to host it.. we ban PUA questions because we've agreed as a community the concept is inherently offensive, for instance
Please expand "PUA" for us who don't know @emc
01:18
I understand, thought it would be particularly powerful if hosted here and ultra-relevant considering the current circumstance.
It's not going to help anything.
Sorry to be blunt, but having been in the middle of all of it... it's really not.
oh well, thanks for the candidness
@goofology so to be clear, the situation you're describing is where someone has asked you to call them X and you don't want to call them X? I'm not sure what you're expecting here. For us to come up with justifications not calling them X for you? To help you think about things differently? Both of these are explicitly not what we do.
by the way - any way to get that 100 point referral bonus back? seems the reputation page doesn't even reflect the demerit, just 101, then 1, no -100
@goofology this is the result of having a post flagged and deleted as spam/offensive. You lose the 100 rep bonus. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200
01:21
I'm describing the ridiculousness in what I have gleaned over the past hours of reading the featured post and associated links
@goofology if you have an issue or question with communicating with people on SE or through the SE framework, that's a question for Meta.SE
thought it was ultra-relevant and deserved another viewpoint, with the SE platform itself being used to spread the anti-pronoun usage
.. I don't think Meta.SE needs another question on this right now, though
already got my previous post deleted on meta
@goofology that sounds like a sign that this isn't a conversation to have on this network...
01:23
That might be a good sign that it's not worth continuing to bring it up.
I meant I have primarily seen that posts on SE are in favor or refusing to use preferred pronouns, for various reasons. thought an opposing viewpoint was approrpiate
IPS.SE is not really the place to argue about that
if there are SE-hosted posts about how ridiculous it is to refuse to use a person's desired pronouns, I'd appreciate some links. I've only seen comments.
It was my last effort after meta post got deleted :/
can I ask why?
I totally get it, just thought a counter-point would be better received than it was
why what specifically
01:26
Why are you so preoccupied with getting a post about this up?
It's been argued about to death for weeks already.
because I see mostly SE-hosted posts from one perspective
in fact I've only seen comments from the other perspective
I think the primary issue here is that you're trying to ask a question to express a "viewpoint" and make an argument. That's really not what any question on any site except meta is for.
maybe I need to read more
@scohe001 <- yeah. we've had issues with soapboxing in the past and .. it doesn't work that well
you misunderstand then. the anti-pronoun-usage viewpoint is present in several SE-hosted posts
the pro-pronoun usage is not (that I can find)
01:29
I mean, if you just want to argue talk with people about pronoun use, I'm sure there's some chatrooms about it somewhere
if one perspective is allowed, figured the other should also be
You're probably better off just leaving it be.
I don't want to argue with anyone. I want equitable treatment for pro- and anti- whatever
I know
I just wish to impress on at least someone the dearth of pro-pronoun SE-hosted posts. thanks for listening
There doesn't need to be a post for every side of a debate. It's really okay. Most of this discussion is happening - or at least was happening, and should still be happening - in private, so most users are not going to see the majority of things.
2
I think labeling it "anit" or "pro" pronoun is misleading. Every post I've read has talked about the merits and drawbacks of how SE mods may enforce rules around pronouns. And all to different degrees. Again, if you want to talk about how you believe rules should be enforced, that's a meta conversation. If you want to express your opinions on pronouns in general, well...I guess if you can find a chat where someone wants to have that convo with you, you could.
2
01:31
clearly there's more nuance than anti- and pro-. it was a simplification
I think right now is not the best time to bring it up because people are still thinking and processing all of this, and to be blunt, the last thing we want is someone else jumping in and starting the discussion afresh.
I'd also suggest waiting for the CoC update to be published, since that's what a lot of the chatter is about, and nobody actually knows what it is yet
thanks all but scohe01 for the considered and polite responses
I am anxiously awaiting that
I'm sure there'll be plenty of opportunity to express your views on meta after that :P
This room is for Interpersonal Skills related topics. Not a soapbox. I appreciate your desire to discuss, but I think it's the wrong time now.
01:33
(very glad I'm not a meta mod)
Meta's a bit low on mods. It's bad enough being a Meta RO...
@user58 oh yeah.. that almost sounds worse :\
for what it's worth, I can't imagine a more relevant and topical Interpersonal Skills post (don't be a jerk) than this. I'm excited I've found this forum though, because I do have a passive aggressive boss I could use some advice regarding.
eek yeah bless those who stuck around in Meta
Ah, what does your boss do specifically that you want to resolve? @goofology
@goofology I'm sorry if I've offended you. I assure you I have nothing against you here. This is just a sore subject and I may be a little worn thin from it atm.
A J
A J
01:45
@scohe001 lol
what is the character limit
I mean, that can wait for a post.. but I suppose briefly to change the subject- I was previously a 10-year employee well regarded/highly respected by all my peers in the IT field and otherwise, C-levels, etc.
I left for 2.5 years for unrelated personal issues and have recently been re-hired after some of the older employees spoke highly of me to the now new executives. my original direct boss warned me about the new manager who is a bit full of himself (he shouldn't be) and how he has a penchant for treating subordinates like children/lesser than him when it suits his fancy.
I should've listened, but I'm the type who has to learn things for myself. the interview (with the new manager) went well, no obvious red flags, and the offer was too good to turn down, but now I'm starting to see the problems
it seems new manager (not IT field) has the typical IT-person stereotype in his head
do what I say when I say it, don't ask questions, hold my hand since I'm computer illiterate because that's what I pay you for, etc
It's clear to him that I am a valuable and well respected resource, but he's not willing to admit it, except in jokes or jabs
He lovingly refers to the laptop I almost religiously bring with me to meetings (to get things done) as "Giselle" - as if I named it that and it's my pet/I have some loving relationship with it
it's big fun to him and he likes to do it in public
I'm very sarcastic and can hang with the best of them when exchanging true sarcasm, but when it's insult veiled as sarcasm, I can't come up with witty responses
can I post a text I composed to let my frustration out (but didn't send)?
@scohe001 - thanks very much, and I understand. small tip if you're willing - ending/interspersing messages with ... is almost universally perceived as disrespectful.
should I save this for a post? lol
I'd be wary of throwing around generalizations like that. I find it's very common and not at all rude, in my experience.
I humbly retract my statement then. perhaps "almost universally" was a bit of a stretch - perhaps more like "in my small circle"
it's akin to a negative rhetorical question in my experience
anyway, should I continue or save my story for a question?
02:01
I use ellipses frequently just to mean "if I were saying this out loud, I'd pause here while gathering my thoughts" :P
perhaps it's clear when used in that context
resolving the issue with your boss sounds like it could be a question, but you might consider posting in the sandbox first to get feedback
ok. I've read a few things that suggest just ignoring it or staying above the fray, which is easy to do, but doesn't accomplish anything productive, and I'm not sure I'm willing to stick it out long enough for him to finally come around, thought I love every other part of the job
thanks for suggestion. Thought @ElizaB was looking to share suggestions here
well, sometimes it's easier to do so on a draft post instead of in chat :)
plus we have a feed that posts new sandbox posts into this room, so people will see it
02:29
Have a good night y'all :)
@ElizB night girl! :)
 
3 hours later…
05:36
@Ælis I would have to lookup introversion and social awkwardness, but this comic seems relatable to me too, and the comic post you shared reminded me of this and I'd go ahead and share it disregarding the possibility that I had shared it already.
 
1 hour later…
06:56
@ankii We actualy have higly voted IPS answer with this comic inside it. But you might have pic it up from there ^^
@Ælis I'm having a hard time finding it..
what do I search for?
Also is Bing up?
@ankii I believe I find it in the list of the most upvoted question/answer of all time. You might find something if you are digging through there: interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions?tab=Votes Also, I believe the question was related to autism, but not sure I remember that correctly
0
Q: How do I navigate a situation where one friend in the group wants to plan a trip that excludes another friend?

Austin ConlonThe friend who is planning this trip wants to exclude another friend, who will likely ask me sometime during the trip what I'm up to. The planner reiterate to me to not tell him (this same scenario happened in the past and I openly said what I was doing at the time which upset the invited friend)...

07:17
Ugh I'm mad for not finding this amazing answer!
It was bountied I think
08:05
A SEDE query could probably help finding it. And yes, I remember it being bountied too
@Ælis I suck at those :p
@avazula Oh no, I was talking about using an existìng one. I pretty sure there is already one for this kind of things ^^
maybe :p
08:22
@ankii I searched for introvert and highest number of votes and I found it:
197
A: How to tell girlfriend I don't want to meet without hurting her feelings?

JessieArrHaving been here before myself, I think you need to realize what this means for your relationship. You don't feel able to relax and have you-time with her around. This is probably because you place a set of responsibilities on yourself when you spend time with her, but also want to be able to she...

no need to thank me :D
Morning :p
Well then, I guess it wasn't bountied after all
@CaldeiraG you're my personal hero today
JAD
JAD
@Ælis it's not too late ;)
08:40
@JAD True that! But I already have another answer that I want to bounty (I wanted to wait until I actualy tested the propose solution but, I'm really not sure I will do that anytime soon...)
@CaldeiraG sure xd, I could curse myself. .. it was in front of me. Just didn’t open it thinking why would this have such an answer
Thanks.
@ankii Yeah, I made the same mistake ><
08:58
@avazula hehe :D
@ankii You're welcome :)
@ankii yea XD
well now when people are well aware of the context, I'll finish the point..
I wish the majority of people read the comic before coming to me for small talks.
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Questions

ÆlisHaving a meaningfull conversation with a homeless person conversation, politness, autism-spectrum (is this one really relevant?) Everyday, when I go to work, I pass by a homeless person. At first, I just waved hello to them, but now I shake hand with them and, when doing that, they will start...

Ah, right when I was wondering what this dog was up to! You are pretty slow today @Sandman!
I'm currently writing an article for work. It's usually not much of a problem but today I writed 3 lines in 45 minutes. Let's just say that I had more productive days >< I guess Saucelabs isn't inspiring me much after all...
09:41
Pff, what a crappy day, nothing is working properly and I want to go home :(
09:55
Me trying to regain some zenitude
10:05
Looks nice :)
Yeah, I like that I have a lot of "toys" in my desk :)
10:34
@Rainbacon, @scohe001 I have a joke for you, American people, so ping me when you are up :p
 
1 hour later…
11:49
@Ælis ok, I'm ready to laugh
12:08
@Ælis Lol so what I'm hearing is...use Fahrenheit if you want to live?
Ahah, no xD
But maybe, be careful when someone tells you "it's at 0°" or "it's at 100°" without specifying the kind of degree :p
I think the worst part is that regardless of whether it's F or C, we still call them "degrees." Like if they had different unit names, this would all be fine :(
A J
A J
12:40
@Ælis Upload it on Imgur, will ya?
At least Kelvin doesn't use degrees
@Rainbacon They do in French. What do they use in English?
A J
A J
@Ælis I don't get the joke.
In English we just call it Kelvin
What temperature is it? 275 Kelvin
Something like that
@AJ I might have a weird sense of humor ^^ I just find it funny that at 0° Celcius you are perfectly fine but at 0° Kelvin you are dead
12:47
@Ælis XD
Celsius for life lol
A J
A J
I will post a simple joke.
> Interviewer: What drives you?
Candidate: The bus mostly.
Interviewer: I mean what motivates you to get out of bed in the morning?
Candidate: Missing the bus!
Looks like nobody got my joke. :P
@AJ Sorry, I did, but then I had to go back to work (but not by bus since I was already sitting in front of my computer :p )
A J
A J
lol
Friend A did not get invited in the first place, as Friend B is organizing the trip. That’s a good point, I might do that. There is someone else in the trip group that Friend B has been playing tennis with more, so there is a decent chance he will have to say he’s out of town too. I doubt he would have any issue saying it himself, but Friend B might try to pry deeper upon finding that we’re both unavailable because we’re both out of town. We could make sure that what we say is plausible and different, but I’m averse to that sort of thing which is why I’ve posted here. — Austin Conlon 3 mins ago
good point :)
@AJ x)
@AJ lol I mean that's one way to be driven :p
A J
A J
13:03
haha
Ugh, I have all day training today and tomorrow
For stuff that I mostly already know
My current client just adopted scaled agile, so they are making everyone (including the consultants) go through training
A J
A J
@Rainbacon Then pull the legs of trainer with knowledge you already have. ;P
nah, I mostly just want to survive the next 2 days
A J
A J
> You're locked in a room with no doors and no windows, just a table and a mirror. How do you escape?
> You look in the mirror. See what you saw. Use the saw to cut the table in half. Two halves make a whole. Climb out the hole.
@scohe001 Another AJ Style joke for you. :P ^
@AJ I do love a good pun
A J
A J
13:09
hehe (Previous response wasn't meant for you)
Lol so that's why the spy had a hand mirror in his pocket!
A J
A J
hehehe
@Ash o/ Hello, there!
> “Queue” sounds like “q” followed by 4 silent letters, but…
They’re just waiting their turn.
3
x)
Good morning y'all :)
A J
A J
Good evening. ;) (I am A J by the way. ;P)
13:26
A J
A J
What happened in Finland?
usually nothing, and that's good
A J
A J
ohh okay.
@AJ LOL I love this
Petition to start pronouncing "Stack" as "cats," since it's last in, first out of my mouth.
3
@scohe001 xD
 
1 hour later…
15:00
@AJ I got it, on twitter! :P
A J
A J
15:19
@EmC lol
 
3 hours later…
18:27
@EmC Do you have some links toward those IPS post about debating being hurtful?
18:45
@Ælis I was mostly thinking of this one where the OP wanted to "play devil's advocate". these ones also came up in search - interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/22722/… and interpersonal.stackexchange.com/questions/19626/… which I think touch on that too
Thanks for the links :) And I think I remember another one posted by one of our TAS regular (dhein maybe?) about debating and playing devil advocate too
oh yeah, good find! :)
Mostly good memory in this case :p
19:31
In tech news, the new Microsoft tablets look wicked cool: youtube.com/watch?v=fssZICsV4Rg&feature=youtu.be
"Coming Holiday 2020"
ah yes, my favorite day of the year, "Holiday" :P
user15026
I assume they mean Christmas? I think?
user15026
Because that's...the only holiday that matters....or something?
user15026
(I guess in terms of people buying stuff, it is :P)
I'd think probably a few days/weeks before xmas so that they can cash in on ppl buying it as gifts
But yes, the day Holi is my favorite as well, @Emc :p
19:36
@Ash Uhm I thought it was Black Friday 😆
haha yeah I would guess that. it's just odd they didn't say "December 2020" or even "Holiday Season 2020"
user15026
@JourneymanGeek :P
I wish I could give my boss deadlines like that. "scohe, we have this new task for you." "Sure, I'll have it done by Holiday 2020."
I don't use tablets, but it does look snazzy
Same here lol I'll probably never touch one, but it's a pretty cool design. Makes me wonder if laptops will slowly become tablets in the next 5-10yrs
19:44
pros: stylus / touchscreen option.. cons: physical keyboard pls, my macbook keyboard already feels weird enough ;(
Ugh yea definitely not a fan of the new mac keyboards :/
Not nearly tactile enough
I have another year before I can get a new work laptop.. I don't know what I was thinking, choosing macbook over thinkpad. definitely will be switching it out
Laptop keyboards in general bug me, but those new "slim keys" on the macbook especially are bleh
20:03
@scohe001 I agree, all laptops should be shipped with a mechanical keyboard
I'd vote for you in the 2020 elections if you could promise me that
Do something about ads and privacy and I'll start making my picket signs right now
user15026
20:50
@Rainbacon Yes!
@Rainbacon Noooooooooo.
a challenger approaches
@user58 use "cuteness attack"
*pouts*
@user58 But clickety clack
21:00
The clickety clack is the worst part. I do need some sensory input when I'm typing, but if it's too loud or too thick... hard pass.
But it sounds so good
*edges away from Rain*
And the tactile feedback is wonderful
I'm 110% with Rain on this. He's pulling words from my brain with these messages
21:21
@scohe001 it's only fair after the words you took out of my brain on meta yesterday
 
3 hours later…
23:52
o/

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